I've been reading the Dr.Ashby studies and I'm interested in experimenting with EFOC and 650gr+ arrows to reach maximum penetration potential. Grizzlystik seems to have excellent customer service but the price seems high. On the other hand the Arrow Dynamics Stingers are more affordable but I haven't heard how well they hold up to heavy hits on bone.
I wouldn't intentionally aim for a shoulder but I want to have an advantage if things go wrong. Any advice? By the way, I'm shooting a Northern Mist Ramer and Classic, both about 50# at my draw of 27". Thanks in advance.
I am running tests now with Arrow Dynamics. Hope to give my input soon.
I have heard great things about Grizzly Sticks TDT shafts.
I'm looking forward to hearing your results.
[attachment=3,msg2852930]Rock,
I have used both a lot and flight characteristics are very similar. It is pretty easy to see that the Grizzlystick are a superior to the AD in every category except cost. The Grizzlystiks are now made by Victory and are precision high quality shaft.
More importantly is finding a spine weight in either brand that is ideal for you. I got stuck between spines with AD, which would seem impossible.
I was all in for the AD Stingers but got frustrated with quality and consistency of spine and straightness so poor that 1-2 per dozen were unusable. Maybe my post will get pulled but I spent a hell of a lot of money on AD shafts, and every time I go all in for hunting season I get an order of poor quality shafts.
So I purchased the Grizzlystiks. I quickly found you don't have to worry about spine from batch to batch and they are much straighter. I was not a fan of the outsert on the GS. But now I like it for its toughness. The GS is a smaller diameter on the front and seems to penetrate deeper in targets. I have used them very very hard and have not broken one yet.
I would change two things on the Grizzlystiks...make them in a light colored wood grain and reduce the diameter of the outsert. Like when we foot a carbon arrow with a pc of alum shaft.
I used a Grizzlystik/Zwickey Delta for this late season doe a few weeks ago. Penetration was thorough, instant, silent, and went 25 yards beyond the deer. (shot from a blind).
[attachment=2,msg2852930]
[attachment=1,msg2852930]
Correct me if I am wrong, but cant you use easton axis inserts with the GS tdt shafts?
That would interests me....
Tuff,
Yes you can use HITT inserts, and I did that. And they look better that way! But...I had a different brand of shaft fail behind the insert twice last fall. So I am gun-shy now and decided to use the GS factory footed half-outs on my GS shafts. I beat those GS half-outs up pretty bad stump shooting and killed a deer and they don't fail!
You can use any .204 insert. I have some Grizzlystik TDT arrows with Black Eagle .204 stainless inserts in them and they work great too.
Tedd
Thanks for your input. I think I will call Grizzlystik tomorrow to get a recommendation for a test pack. If I decide to buy a dozen they will refund the cost of the test pack. Sounds like a good deal.
It takes a little work but you can make Grizzlystiks look OK.
[attachment=1]
[attachment=2][attachment=3]
Those are some nice looking arrows.
Rock, what are your bow specs?
I use the GS .320 TDT
My bow is a JK Kanati Longbow, 61lb@30". The bow is not quite cut to center.
I use a full length Grizzlystik w factory insert and a 250 gr point for a finished arrow of 670 grains. It bare shafts almost perfect or slightly weak.
Tedd
My main bows are Hill style, all cut about .25" from center, low stretch strings and 50-60# at 27". I'm thinking .400 at about 30" and 250gr upfront would work but I'll call them to see what they say.
Rock,
Correct. the .320s take a lot of bow or center shot to turn from stiff. 400s are a good bit lighter so you should have plenty of point weight and shaft length options.
Tedd
I have a grizz test arrow comming...
Arrogance Dystructions don't pay their bills....but will bull shite you for 11 months
There is a few options with the Grizzly Stick that you guys might not be aware of one of my favorite set ups is Larry Hanify from Abowyer has a glue in glue on .204 adapter you can use to replace the insert. I will have a picture of my set up in a few for you all to see.
There is a pin and sleeve system I will be suppling for this arrow as well and will have stock for the 400 and 320 spine Grizzly Stick
I should have my inventory in a few days
(http://i.imgur.com/tJLDQzQl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/tJLDQzQ)
And on top of that there is a new Tapered Arrow from Victory that will take these insert as well called a VXT these will be sold as dozens only they will not be cheap but I believe this could be the best tapered shafts made so far. they will have the best of both AD and Grizzly quality's with there flaws.
I knew this was something on the horizon and its about time the big names in the industry took on this type of design and inprove on it. Victory has by far the best quality in a tapered arrow I have ever played with.
I will be stocking both the Grizzly Stick and VXT and I can promise the price tag will make you guys happy
GARY
Thanks Gary. I have been impressed with Victory over the last few months of testing. I have been testing the standard .245 elite shafts. I like them. I have always been a fan of the 5/16" .245 shafts.
I would be interested in seeing Victory's tapered shaft
Gary,
You sure do know how to keep us buying stuff! Those inserts look like something I have to try as well as the VXT.
Tedd
I made a call to Grizzlystik for an arrow recommendation. After a pleasant and somewhat long conversation I placed an order for a test kit. The woman I spoke to was very knowledgeable and friendly. The test kit should arrive next week. I can't wait to test these arrows out.
gary
i sure hope you are going to be at denton hill this year, i think we need to talk,for about an hour :bigsmyl:
I sure will be there and will be happy to chat with you.
Sorry I forgot to finish up this post with the point details I will show that off tomorrow morning
There are some fun options out there
Unless you go for real hard to kill or dangerous game, a regular aluminum arrow with a heavier tip will give you all you ever need for much less $$$.
A 2117 cut to 28.5 with 250 grain up front will give you 620 grains and 19.7% FOC. Gamegetter 400 for $5 a shaft, normal insert $.35, Nock: .25, 3x5" feathers $1.50= $7 for arrow and either .50 for a field tip or 125 grain steel insert and 125 grain broadhead or 100 grain steel insert and 150/160 grain Broadhead.
Would spend the saved money on a decent hunting trip or whatever.
...now about those fun options you were talkin about... :coffee: :coffee:
OK LOTS AND LOTS OF PARTS
Glue on Glue in adapters from Abowyer
(http://i.imgur.com/TWbUhGsl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/TWbUhGs)
(http://i.imgur.com/3kIAQcRm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/3kIAQcR)
Easton Deep Six SS Inserts
(http://i.imgur.com/zRWKuPNm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/zRWKuPN)(http://i.imgur.com/hzlWGblm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/hzlWGbl)
AXIS or Axis Trad HIT insert
(http://i.imgur.com/kHwURfDm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kHwURfD)(http://i.imgur.com/7i7HvzAm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/7i7HvzA)
Sorry that took so long
Let me know if you have any question
Gary, Can you post a better photo of those footings or tubes that go over the glue on glue in? I know its a pain in the butt!
Thanks,
Tedd
Sorry, I read back. It looks like you don't have them (pin system) in stock yet? What are the weights of those long threaded inserts shown on page 1?
Thank you,
Tedd
I post better pictures and spec they are available and I will have them this week
Please tell me these arrow shafts are at least 32.5'' in length. :pray:
I know it's crazy that they cut them so short
But they are 31" for the VXT and the Grizzly Stick
AD can do them longer but it takes a month and a day to get them
is there any reason to think that those VXT's will come in heavier spines? I currently need a 250 spine to shoot 300-350gr head/50gr insert with a 30.5" DL. doesn't seem like there's any way that the 350VXT will work. thanks for the info!
Skookuminak,
Those Grzzlystiks come in .250 and a .170
I have a long draw length also. 30"+. I use full length grizzlystiks w the factory inserts and have plenty of arrow for safe shooting. I just measured one, it is 31" from the throat of the nock to the back of outsert. 31 3/4"" to the blades.
Another inch of shaft would be nice for tuning and point weight changes.
What weight and center shot is your bow? Mine is 61@30" and the .320 is perfect with a 250 grain point. But if I would use more strands or heavier silencers it would be easy to make the arrow too stiff. Finished arrow is 670 gr.
Tedd
Thanks Tedd, Sorry for the confusion: I was referring to the VXT's which appear to only come as stiff as .355 per the VAP website. I have a grizzlystik test kit with 320's and 240's and will see how they do next week when i'm home again. The VXT's are appealing because of the lower GPI allowing for even higher FOC than the grizzlystiks which would be great as long as they are reasonably durable. I've also been playing with the the Valkyrie reign system using .250 shafts with 50gr insert and 350gr point and get excellent flight and about 30% FOC at around 700gr total arrow weight. that's going to be hard to beat with the much heavier Grizzlystik.
This guy put in a pretty good effort testing shafts. It's not scientific but for practical purposes shows the tapered carbon penetration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8NmWmoc1i4
I don't have the dollars for the premium shafts, but I like my GT Entradas ($44/dozen!), footed, with 350-400 gr up front. Ends up around 650 grains and 30% FOC.
Quote from: skookuminak on February 23, 2019, 09:40:39 PM
Thanks Tedd, Sorry for the confusion: I was referring to the VXT's which appear to only come as stiff as .355 per the VAP website. I have a grizzlystik test kit with 320's and 240's and will see how they do next week when i'm home again. The VXT's are appealing because of the lower GPI allowing for even higher FOC than the grizzlystiks which would be great as long as they are reasonably durable. I've also been playing with the the Valkyrie reign system using .250 shafts with 50gr insert and 350gr point and get excellent flight and about 30% FOC at around 700gr total arrow weight. that's going to be hard to beat with the much heavier Grizzlystik.
Here's a nice chart that GrizzlyStik has on various configurations of their arrows: https://www.grizzlystik.com/images/site/tdt-chart-web.jpg (https://www.grizzlystik.com/images/site/tdt-chart-web.jpg)
Thunder,
I will take you up on that. The AD stingers I have are revenants of 3 batches, different lengths and from different batches. I had some of the very first ones and those had to be cut short. I don't have enough to have a few identical arrows to shoot a group to do any testing anymore. I will PM you.
Tedd
I can guarantee the Victory and Grizzly Stick Arrows to tighter tolerances and better quality then most manufacturers doing a tapered shaft. This is from years of hands on experience with Arrow Dynamics and Victory as well as Grizzly Stick
The arrow Dynamics are fantastic arrows for money and it's great that they are still made in the good old USA
On top of amazing customer service from Grizzly and Victory
And the Victory arrows are not made overseas and I would like to know where are you received information on the price of the new VXT Because they are not going to be a $400 a dozen.
I am Victory dealer and that would be huge mark up from my cost
I don't think you have the correct information and pricing
The VXT will be an experience arrow but will be around $250-$275 a dz from me made up.
I have to say, I have received some "testers" of the AD Stinger tapered shafts and been shooting them for a week now. Overall I am impressed with the flight qualities of the taper.
Weights are good as well.
I have a 400spine (all black) built with a 50g insert, 265g point, a wrap and 4-gateway 2" batwings. Total weight is 588g. No footing. I could not get any of mine to fit good enough(we might need to adjust that!)
Darn things fly great! I cant argue that.
I DO like that they are made in the USofA.
Your wood grain looks good as well!
We will be taking them stumping tomorrow and shooting broadheads out of them tomorrow.
Will really put em through the test tomorrow.
These are the V3's .003 for tolerances and here is the price tag from a very reparable Company we all know very well
These are not going to be a $400 a dozen side of Arrows
Out of curiosity, where are these shafts made?
Victory is out of California. And they are supplied carbon from a company in Mexico I believe. The point being there not made overseas they still are not made in United States at least their carbon is not supplied from American-based company I'm not denying that.
The carbon is supplied from a company in Mexico and they are made in California information that I have.
if the V3's cost that much how much would the V1's be?
I received my test kit from Grizzlystik today and I must say I'm pretty impressed. Both test arrows weighed exactly 650 grains on my scale. Both the .320 and .400 flew great but the .400 seemed to hit the target more squarely. Both arrows appeared to be very straight when spun on my arrow spinner. I'm going to try to shoot at longer yardages in the next few days to see how the trajectory is affected.
I just put the AD Stinger tapered shafts through the test over the weekend.
I have to say, these were not as bad as some of your guys past experiance was.
Maybe the quality control is better. This is my first experiance with the brand, so I have no past experiance to compare it to.
First off, the 400 spine shafts actually came in at 440spine on my scale. Probably due to the taper. FULL Disclosure, I am no expert at testing spines on carbon. I usually take the manufactures word.
All 4 shafts were with in 3 grains of each other in weight. The wood shaft was obviously heavier by approx 40g. (Same spine)
I am not sure what straightness Glen sent me, but they all were built exactly the same and all spun true on my spin tester.
As far as flight, they flew very well and it appears to have a little more trajectory than a .254 parallel shaft of the exact same weight.
These Stinger shafts also were producing a consistent 3 fps gain over the .245 parallel shaft of same weight.
I took the shafts stumping and really tried to break them. I typically "foot" the ends of my shafts, however, I chose not to do it with these as I wanted to see if they can handle to torture on their own! I had a 50% success. One shaft split on the point end from a direct front hit on a hard locust stump. Another withstood a direct hit on a concrete block but the nock end cracked ever so slightly.
The other 2 shafts took everything I could do to it. As did the Wood covered shaft. However, the wood grafics got scratched up pretty bad on a off camber shot on the concrete block. I shoot black shafts, so not a worry of mine. I think any wood/carbon shaft would have scratched.
The good:
~I would say I am pretty please with the Stinger tapered shafts. I like the standard .244(5/16") front end and the standard .165 (G-nock) rear end.
~I was happy with the shafts overall weight as it was not too heavy. It allowed me to load up the front end and get a nice overall weight and high foc.
~I also like the slight increase in speed and wind direction that the micro diameter showed on the nock end.
~Price. At $125-$165/doz depending on the grade, that is a heck of a deal as far as I see it.
~I like the use of "standard" components.
The bad:
~The ID on the ends were slightly inconsitant. I had to trim a 1/2" of the front and rear to get a good end for the component installation. Not a huge deal, but non the less.
~50% breakage. No I did torture these poor shafts. But footing and pin nocks would probably solve this. BUT, not everyone out there likes footing their shafts and using a pin nock.
~Grafics. Just a simple screen print. Not durable at all. However, I hate grafics, so I just took them off anyhow.
~Top coat. Lack of finish coating that I am aware of or could tell on these shafts. No coating like the CE Bufftough, or the Victory ICE coating. I am a fan of the Victory ICE coating, but I am not sure if it is really needed.
~The .165 nock end. I don't know, I was never a fan of the .165 diameter shafts. I always liked the .204 (Axis) shafts. It would be cool to have had these on a slight taper from .245 to a .204 nock end. However, Glen told me he could not achieve this on this equipment.
.
Build: 400 spine Stinger(black shaft) Cut to 31"
60g TOPHAT SS insert
265g points
Easton G nock (I think I would use the Bohing Blazer F nock)
7" white wraps.
3-4" parabolic feathers. Straight fletched. Right wing.
Total Weight: 588g
FOC: 24.5%
FPS: 150
Momentum: .39 slugs
Testing was done on a 62" Hurst Amiable. 46# at my 29" draw.
Jason, I'm glad you took the time to test the Stingers. I thought about ordering a dozen of the Grizzlystiks, but the cost is almost double what the Stingers would cost. Maybe I will order a half dozen of the Stingers from 3 Rivers to try them out.
James, I would be interested in your feedback as well.
After 18 years I can officially say now that I will no longer recommend or buy arrow dynamics.
no more arrow dynamics for mr. terry :scared: :scared: :scared: is it possible there quality control has slipped that far?
Terry,
Did you get a chance to try the Grizzlystik?
Anyone try those tapered FMJs yet?
Tedd
Tedd,.... I have several types of shafts comming....they are shipping this week.
Don't see how expressing your choice of supporting or not supporting a item would be grounds for a lawsuit. I certainly read no derogatory statements about someone or thing in your post.
Thanks Kat.... After 18 years of support you surely wouldn't expect this Kind of treatment especially when you did nothing to provoke it.
Arrow Dynamics and Grizzlysticks are not even in the same category. Arrow dynamics are sub par at best and very inconsistant. I love grizzly sticks out of any of my bows that are cut short of center, on center cut bows I see less of an advantage. Not sure why but just what I have observed. The way I see it the arrow and broadhead actually pass through the animal I have no desire to use any thing less then the best I can afford.
Sorry to hear this about Arrow Dynamics but it's not surprising. My search for the perfect arrow continues. Too bad, cause I really liked the Stinger shaft. Grizzly Sticks are just priced too high for me no matter how good they are. Think I will try to find some of the new T64 shafts.
They aren't tapered, but I've really been happy with the day six arrows. I've literally tried to break them stumping and can't. On direct impacts with oak trees, steel pipes, and steel plates. Nothing. Still shooting that arrow. Stuck one in a doe this year in freezing temps and watched her kick the arrow twice as she ran off. Still using that arrow as well. They are skinny shafts with a good heavy weight. They aren't cheap at $170 per dozen, but I'm a huge fan so far. Just my 2 cents as a Bowhunter who loves to tinker with arrows.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tedd, sorry....there is a grizz in the batch...not sure what else.
Ah....Thank you Kat
AD Stingers tested well for me as mentioned above from my test. It was just a test for me as I too was interested in a tapered shaft. I think a tapered style shaft has its place in some bows, but is not a cure all.
A good parralel shaft is hard to beat. I am very fond of .204 and standard diameter shafts for rigidity and a good balance of gpi weight.
I have tested the Black Eagle shafts pretty extensively and am very impressed.
That is why i decided to become a dealer.
Those of you that know me, know I only carry what I trust and is a solid product.
Black Eagle hits a good price point and are really good shafts. I would put them up to any other arrow out there at the moment.
I honestly, truely feel good components are just as important and are continuously over looked when building a good quality arrow.
Jason...I'll call you Monday.
10-4 Terry
I have a Grizz here that was sent to me a while back....WOW!!!
I shot it a bit then but it had a protrusion and I had a hunt in TX....and I put it aside...
Now I'm making time...
"poultrioution"???? :dunno:
yeah.... Heck if I know how to spell it.... But spell check tried :biglaugh:
Barry Wensel used to shoot them years Ago...
Pultrusion
Thanks Kat....
My package of goodies should be in tomorrow.
Quote from: carbonflyr on March 21, 2019, 05:44:09 PM
no more arrow dynamics for mr. terry :scared: :scared: :scared: is it possible there quality control has slipped that far?
It goes far beyond that sir.
Arrogance Dysfunctions don't pay their bills For 11 months....but All the while they will bull shite you And forgot they ever talked to you ....
Any company that treats someone like that obviously has quality problems also.... And will in no doubt covered up to the masses anyway they see fit..... As they think they are some kind of arrow God....NOT!!!!
wow :scared: :o did not have a clue about all that other stuff
Sad to see what is going on with AD but based on a conversation I had with a prior rep from the company last year it's not surprising. If I had the capital to invest I would be looking into buying the company. The current ownership may not realize it yet but it's time to sell. The longer they hold on and the further down they go the cheaper the price will get. If there is someone out there with the funds and desire to get in the arrow business you may want to investigate. Although QC needs to be improved it is still a great product that hits the marketplace at a very competitive price point for a tapered carbon shaft. I still like the shafts and would like to see a new owner revive the company. The Grizzlystiks are just priced too high for me but the new Easton T64 may give them all a run for their money. I'm looking forward to trying those out once my local archery shop gets them in stock.
Fling.... I have heard rumblings for Years...
Gary Hunsicker is salt of the earth.... He took care of me 9 ways to Sunday.....ALWAYS.
I was asked to take Gary off by the owner and make him a sponsor Instead of Gary... This company has NEVER Paid one dime all the years Gary was the sponsor..... And all that time I heard the rumblings.....
I can't tell you how many people have contacted me since this fiasco solidifying what you are saying.... And now he's threatening to Sue us. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Oh...and ask them who gave them the idea for their Hammer Heads and see what they say