Scheduled to hunt CO elk this September and I'm curious as to some of your thoughts on bow/arrow weight. I hunt with a Bear Grizzly 50 @28 but my draw is 27. My Whitetail setup is Traditional Only 400's with 175 sharks up front. Arrow weight is around 490 grains. Two questions, (1) is a 47lb bow capable of killing an elk (yes I know arrow weight, broadheads and placement are key) and (2) if my bow will work what do I need to get my arrow weight and head weight up to?
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your set up should be fine, but I would use a different broadhead to better your penetration.
What are you thinking? Single bevel?
I'd use that exact setup except I'd put a head that was closer to the 1:3 ratio on it such as a Grizzly or similar only because they are a bigger animal than a deer.
I'd add about 50 grains to the front of the arrow. What you have will work. I just think a little heavier arrow will work a little better.
If ya wanna stay w simmons you could switch to tigersharks as they are much more narrow than the 2 1/16 width of the treesharks- and they typically w fly the same. And you could add aquarium tubing to add weight - or what I found to be better is the oxygen lines from the hospital if you have access to this.
Tim B
Just add weight to the front? I don't think an arrow that is flying weak and poorly tuned is a great option, assuming the original posters arrows are flying nicely. I'd take a nice flying arrow that weight less than something that was flying good until I changed something about it. The bow is great, I'd go ahead and start building some new arrows entirely. Maybe some aluminum 2117s or CE Heritage 250s. Those would up the weight.
I'm adding a new string and a clicker this winter. The plan was to build some new arrows after both of those changes have been made. I'd like to be over 500 grains. Im also not married to the Simmons because I struggle getting scary sharp consistently.
Would be personally comfortable with your setup if the total arrow weight was increased 50 grains.
Have found over the past years that the Simmon's Sharks consistently deliver and have no issue getting them scary sharp in a short time. Plan to be utilizing the Swamp Shark this next deer and elk season.
You are just over 10gpp with your current arrows. I don't believe I would worry about increasing arrow weight. Not sure how far you normally practice, but your shots on elk could be a little longer. A heavy arrow will certainly have more variance in trajectory. 10gpp is by no means "light". If your arrows are well tuned and your broadheads are sharp, you should be just fine. Rick Barbee did some interesting testing on penetration and found somewhere around 9gpp to perform the best within his tests. At some point when you add weight you reach a point of diminishing returns---but many factors to consider including bow performance...
I was listening to a podcast awhile back about the the man who was 1st to complete the grandslam with a recurve. According to his setup he took all 29 species in north America with a 54lb bow and arrow weight of 450 grain. I think that says it all. Never understood the super heavy arrow thinking. Ive personaly always shot around 425 out of my 52 lb bows. almost always got complete pass thru of course all I hunt is whitetail.
Great information everyone I appreciate it. I feel much more comfortable in my setup now. I do think I need to fine tune my arrow flight just a little bit. I typically practice in that 10-25 range which is my preferred hunting range also.
I've killed an elk with a 47# Longbow at my 26" draw with a 534gr arrow and a Magnus stinger 2 blade. 150gr head with a 100gr brass insert on Goldtip 3555(500's) I think your setup is fine as long as like you already stated, you can put it where it needs to be..... :thumbsup:
Good luck to ya!
All of these questions have been answered before, thoroughly, by Ashby. You can kill an elk with just about anything, but if you want to increase your odds, then shoot a durable arrow, that is perfectly tuned, front-heavy, with a narrow single bevel, that weighs 650+. Your bow is perfectly fine (unless you need an excuse to buy a new one!)
Now, your current arrows can be tweaked to fly well with more point weight, by experimenting with different length footing. Adjust the footing length to allow you to add more weight up front -- longer footing will make the shaft act stiffer to make up for more front weight. This is far superior to internal weight tubes/line.
I can tell you that I have two regrettable occasions where I have shot elk with a longbow and arrows/broadheads that did not meet the above guidelines. I will not make that mistake again.
Pete
Quote from: GDPolk on January 20, 2019, 09:59:20 PM
I'd use that exact setup except I'd put a head that was closer to the 1:3 ratio on it such as a Grizzly or similar only because they are a bigger animal than a deer.
Ditto I have close to the same draw weight but my arrows are 534gr also went from a Zwickey delta to a Grizzly single bevel 155gr head.
Something to keep in mind about the superslam comment. Eichler may shoot 54 lbs but his draw length is like 31". There is a HUGE difference between 47@27 and 54@31. I think 55# is a minimum for serious big game bowhunting with a normal draw length. Sure guys get it done with less every year but I think year in and year out a 55-65# bow gives a guy a little more room for error. How many times have you shot an animal that you thought was broadside but was actually slightly quartering toward you? Animals move during the shot etc.
Either way good luck!
I'm a single bevel believer. Made a 35 yard complete pass through shot on a caribou.
On hogs at 20 yards I would get penetration to opposite side.
I havent adjusted weight for various species. I've kinda found what my bow likes to shoot, and what I tuned it with and rolled with it. Been very happy with the results...I think alot is sub conscious. I know my arrows will land and group how they're supposed to if I do my part
I think like DXH, I mean not so much single bevels though I use them but most of it is sub concious? stick with what you know and you know how they shoot, you have kills with your setup, adds up to confidence? then why change? a good flying 500 grain arrow with a sharp head is tough on any animal! seriously cant help with the elk but every time I think about changing or try new things I always end up with my same old setup I have used for ages? I just know it.
Best of luck! thats gonna be a great hunt!
J
I knew a young fellow that had shot a number of elk with cedar arrows, a 51@26" ASL and Zwicky Eskimo heads. He showed me pictures of exit and entrance wounds, blood trails and dead bulls and a cow elk. I changed my kids's and wife's heads to Eskimos. When an arrow that i use that requires a 125 grain head, i also use the Eskimos. They work.
However, he in the mean time changed to Hunter's Heads. They work too.
It is easy to over think equipment, get what ever you are using to fly perfect, the big variable is always the human. Like the area hunter that could not reach full draw with his heavy recurve, but blamed the Zwicky Delta for not getting enough penetration in the shoulder of an elk that he hit.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have a 55lb bow for a little extra peace of
mind but that is not in the budget this year. It's either make the Grizzly work with the proper arrow setup or take the wheelie bow. I'd really like to make my Grizzly work which it sounds like is entirely possible.
Im still working on building confidence this is only my third year with traditional equipment and I do not have any kills under my belt. The group I'll be hunting with are skeptical of traditional equipment which also makes it difficult. Up hill battle on all fronts but that's what makes it fun for me.
Sounds like the general concensous is to up the arrow weight a little bit and to shoot a sharp single bevel type head.
Where are you in Indiana? I could loan you a good bow around 57/58# @27".
Northern Indiana, Fort Wayne area.
As I said before. Your current bow/arrow setup will get the job done. I know that several great broadheads exist out there, but since I started shooting Cutthroats I can't really see me shooting much else for big game. They get scary sharp easily and are built like tanks. Most of them I've shot thru animals could have been shot again without touching them with a stone. they also have a lifetime warranty.
Quote from: Hoosier_hunter157 on January 21, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have a 55lb bow for a little extra peace of
mind but that is not in the budget this year. It's either make the Grizzly work with the proper arrow setup or take the wheelie bow. I'd really like to make my Grizzly work which it sounds like is entirely possible.
Im still working on building confidence this is only my third year with traditional equipment and I do not have any kills under my belt. The group I'll be hunting with are skeptical of traditional equipment which also makes it difficult. Up hill battle on all fronts but that's what makes it fun for me.
Sounds like the general concensous is to up the arrow weight a little bit and to shoot a sharp single bevel type head.
No offense but honestly I have more than a dozen kills under my belt with a traditional bow. Most of them in the last 12 months. And if I were going elk hunting tomorrow, it wouldn't be with my trad bow. I'm just not there yet.
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Quote from: GCook on January 21, 2019, 09:49:18 PM
No offense but honestly I have more than a dozen kills under my belt with a traditional bow. Most of them in the last 12 months. And if I were going elk hunting tomorrow, it wouldn't be with my trad bow. I'm just not there yet.
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If you are not confident in shooting at an animal who's kill zone can be approximated by an 18-20" diameter circle, why have you already shot at a dozen other animals with a trad bow? Or perhaps the lack of confidence due to a lack of draw weight?
*Edit: I know you shoot well, Gary. You should take a crack at elk next fall!*
Lots of elk have been killed by 45 lb bows, cedar arrows, and bear razorheads, or zwickeys.
Quote from: Trumpkin the Dwarf on January 21, 2019, 10:22:56 PM
Quote from: GCook on January 21, 2019, 09:49:18 PM
No offense but honestly I have more than a dozen kills under my belt with a traditional bow. Most of them in the last 12 months. And if I were going elk hunting tomorrow, it wouldn't be with my trad bow. I'm just not there yet.
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If you are not confident in shooting at an animal who's kill zone can be approximated by an 18-20" diameter circle, why have you already shot at a dozen other animals with a trad bow? Or perhaps the lack of confidence due to a lack of draw weight?
*Edit: I know you shoot well, Gary. You should take a crack at elk next fall!*
Lots of elk have been killed by 45 lb bows, cedar arrows, and bear razorheads, or zwickeys.
Because I've been bowhunting for elk. 15 yards to a feeder for a whitetail. or 10 yards to a trail for a pig is different than stalking up on a bull elk on a shinery mesa where the shot just materializes or watching three trails on a funnel between rock slide chutes and the herd splits up between all three and filtering through the trees past you.
I know my limitations. I also know the first time an elk walks in up wind of you and that musk hits your nose and that rack waves in the air it's an adrenaline rush like no other. Someday maybe. When I get my comfortable kill range to 25 yards. But I'm not there yet.
I know my limitations. And I hunt within them.
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It seems to me a guy is way better off shooting the lower poundage bow he can shoot better...vs a heavier bow just for the extra energy.
And I've seen some pretty darn good performance from some light setups with a very efficient BH.
Then of course the shot component is a big deal. Take high % shots staying away from the shoulder....and that bow of yours is a killing machine. The problem with elk is the wind is shifty in the mtns....and if you get them in close. You can cll them close...but if they hang up [which they are doing more and more] or try to get your wind if they don't see an elk [almost always] they can screw you up.
For all of those^ reasons, I recommend a decoy.
I would concentrate on getting the best 2 blade head you can that's scary sharp and very strong at the tip.You don't want tip curl!Perfect flight is right their with the broadhead choice.I think a narrower head would serve you better than a very wide one for elk with your setup.
All great points. I certainly have more confidence in my compound but for the last three years I've focused solely on my recurve. It will be a personal choice that I will have to make in the next few months.
I don't get some of these comments, it's an elk not a cape buffalo. Your setup is fine, a little narrower head wouldn't hurt but far from a must.
I think I'm going to make up some new arrows that are just a tad bit heavier and try out some cutthroats, grizzlys or tuffheads. I'm going to stick with the bow and focus on accuracy, form and my confidence. Success for this hunt would be merely to hear a bugle and experience the chase.
I remember well many years ago at the Bear shop in Sioux Falls. They got a notice from Bear about bow speeds of the various models. To their surprise the Grizzly was the fastest. Charlie thought 'not faster than my 64" Super K or takedown'. Out to the garage to check. At my draw the Grizzly was a good bit faster than the takedowns. At Charlie's long draw, he claimed the Grizzly stacked, but it was fast.