I need to up my versatility with hang and hunts. Anyone use of treesaddle? Thoughts? Thoughts on shooting shooting a trad bow from one? Model choice?
Thx in advance!
Been peaking my interest too. I know Harmon Carson uses one and takes a lot of critters. Seem pretty handy.
I found a youtube video that compares shoot from them. Unfortunately, they are using a compound bow, but you can get an idea. Search Moving for a shot, Saddles VS Tree stands under youtube it pops up.
There's a learning curve for sure and it feels a little strange for awhile but if you give it a chance, it's a valuable addition to your arsenal. Be sure to check out the Mantis tree saddle thread as well.
Today's offerings are leaps and bounds ahead of the old Trophylines. So be cautious and don't make your decision based on reviews or opinions from 10 years ago.
I switched to a tree saddle. I bought a Tethrd Mantis saddle this summer. Due to my own choices I only used it twice this year. There was a little learning curve regarding the set up. But I'm sure after another try or two it'll be no different then the learning curve I had setting up a tree stand. As far as shooting out of it I didn't have any issue. You really can shoot 360 degrees around the tree with very little movement.
I hunt public land and have to either take my stand down after every hunt or I can only leave it up for a few days in a row. Regardless, the saddle is a much lighter option for me both in hanging and carrying it in. It fits in my pack and I don't even know it's there. The only thing I need to figure out is the climbing. I'm currently using API sticks. Lots of saddle hunters are using steps that strap or screw into the tree.
Check out www.saddlehunter.com for way more information as well as "G2 outdoors" on YouTube. Lots of great information over there!
-Jeremy :coffee:
Got a Mantis, very secure--I'm trying to get use to my climbing system and ROS--I got the Silent approach climbing system and ROS---Very light after carrying 30 plus pound stand :goldtooth:
I appreciate the info all. I've been researching quite a bit. May be my off-season project.
Quote from: BRONZ on December 28, 2018, 07:51:41 PM
I appreciate the info all. I've been researching quite a bit. May be my off-season project.
Do it!
I'm a huge fan of my Aerohunter Kestrel and Thethrd Predator (3 pound mini platform)
Check out some of the posts in the other thread inquiring about Mantis saddles.
I have been hunting from a saddle for a least 3 years now and I wouldn't go back to a traditional stand. I find the mobility, accessibility, and portability allow me to hunt in more places than a traditional treestand. I have also been able to reduce what I carry in my vehicle and what I carry into the woods. Once set up in a hunting location you can shoot or maneuver depending on the size of the tree almost 360 degrees around the tree.
They are light-weight, quiet, safe, and comfortable and have allowed me to hunt locations that I couldn't get a climber or hang on stand setup. I also like the fact that at all times you have three points of contact your feet on a step or platform and the rope to the bridge and this makes you feel secure moving or shooting from a saddle.
One of the great things is using this system you can set up multiple locations preseason and then use the saddle to hunt all the locations or if you prefer a run and gun approach you can use hang on sticks or Wild Edge steps. It is an extremely versatile and effective way to hunt and can allow you to hunt further and farther than before.
If anyone has any specific question they can PM me and I would be glad to help in any way possible but I truly believe that a saddle should be in every bowhunters toolbox!
Good Luck, Thanks.
Hunted 90% out of a saddle this year. Way better than a climber and its fun bouncing to different trees all the time. I am hooked, won't go back. I have the Aero Hunter Kestrel and a Tethrd Platform. There is a ton of information on youtube and a whole forum dedicated to saddle hunting.
My son uses a Tetherd Mantis, it's a great way to hunt. In fact he is selling his climber and regular tree stands.
Over the years I've had a tree suit, Guidos Web and this fall I bought a tethered Mantis with predator platform. I killed deer with recurve and longbow out of the Tree suit and Guidos, so they definitely work for trad shooters.
Some folks love them, some don't like them - I'm one of the latter.
Sold my Mantis after one hunt. It is a good saddle as far as saddles go but I just finally figured out saddle hunting is not for me. I got caught up in all the hype with the Mantis is why I tried saddles again. I did like the predator platform - definitely an improvement over tree steps or steps on a strap for your feet.
As far as compactness and low weight - yes the saddle itself is lightweight but it requires some form of climbing method....Sticks plus saddle plus ropes plus carabiners and some kind of platform for your feet really adds up to within a few pounds of a lightweight climber or hang on with sticks.
I highly recommend you try one out before purchasing(set it up at hunting height) and spend more than 5 minutes in one to really figure out if its for you or not.
The Idea of being able to move from tree to tree is very appealing. But, for me I tried the tree saddle and there is a learning curve that I could not overcome. I think you really have to practice shooting with one before you go out and actually hunt. Also a lot of movement is involved to get ready to shoot. I prefer a stand. I have a friend that uses a tree saddle and loves it. Just not for me.
Been curious myself this past year, and my curiosity finally got the best of me. Put in an order for a kestrel last week. I'll have all spring and summer to see if it's for me or not.
As for weight, unless you're strictly hunting pre sets, you're carrying (or should be) your lineman's rope, tether, and harness in addition to your 10-20lb hang on and sticks, or 15-25lb climber. Should be room for lots of weight savings on those long hikes.
Closest you can probably get is the upcoming beast stand and sticks--at 3x the price.
YUP. I have a Kestrel and a DIY SitDrag-R/C harness. 19 hunts out of 21 in 2018 out of the Kestrel (other two were ground/still hunting). you definitely have to practice to familiarize yourself with shooting a stickbow out of the saddle but its actually easier than you'd think.
I find that many are reluctant to try a saddle because it is a real paradigm shift from traditional treestands. If you give it a fair trial you will find that the saddle has many advantages and you can get into places that ladders, hang on, and climbers are not able to. One of the reasons I was so keen to use a saddle was due to the area of South Eastern New Jersey I hunt better known as the Pine Barrens. You can rarely find a straight limb free tree for a climber or hang on stand and a ladder stand gives away your location to fellow hunters.
The saddle allows me to get into locations that I couldn't get into before and allows me to keep my hunting locations as secretive as possible. Also, you can set up multiple preset locations using tree steps and climbing sticks, or run and gun using muddy sticks, Wild Edge steps, or where legal tree spikes. The Saddle is an extremely versatile hunting system that allows you to customize it to your hunting situation or your preferred hunting style as well.
Yes, it does require a little bit of a learning curve but so do all tree stands except perhaps a ladder stand but I think the advantages are worth it. There are also many ways to customize the system to be as ultralight as possible or anywhere in between. The saddle lends itself to getting into the most unconventional hunting spots while still allowing you to hunt comfortably and safely.
Another advantage is that you can wear it in and it won't make any noise as a metal stand does going through the brush and it is your stand and lineman's belt. I find that it is much easier to walk into my hunting locations with my saddle on and carrying a set of Muddy Pro sticks than a climber or hang on stand. If you use preset locations you can even go in lighter carrying only your bow a pack and the saddle.
I have an AeroHunter Evolution, Kestrel, and Kite and I like and use all of them. I think if you give a saddle a try you will find it can help you in many hunting situations as well and you just might find yourself reaching for the saddle more than your climber or hang on stand.
Good Hunting >>>------------>
I'm a converted saddle hunter too, best thing I ever did and I just turned 61. Not for everyone and does require some learning curve. I took it another level learning how to use arborist SRT climbing technique and rated gear, which if you have suitable trees with enough low level limbs eliminates the need for steps or sticks to ascend and descend the tree. I can't use SRT all the places I hunt but when I can its the lightest possible setup otherwise I use either sticks or steps. Regardless of how you climb or whether you use a regular lock-on platform or one of the smaller platforms the saddle and tether is the key, which is safer than a fall arrest system but also allows you to safely go off platform and shoot all around the tree. Once you practice this a couple feet of the ground then take it up the tree its hard not to love.
I use the DIY SitDrag/rock climbing harness with a Lone Wolf Hand Climber seat as a foot platform. I also use the harness and foot platform to climb with so I don't have to carry any extra sticks. It's the smallest and lightest possible solution for long hikes in, but it isn't the easiest or simplest method of climbing. I like the trade off if I'm hiking more than a half mile or so. With a second tether you can safely climb above limbs, too.
I have used the LW hand climber seat too, but it needs some weight cantilevered on it to hold its position on the tree as it does when you stand on it. Some lock-ons have the same issue as do climbers. Once you go off the platform the base is only biting the tree with its own weight on the cam strap and platform teeth. If you go off the base and push off on from the sides with your feet to maneuver around the tree the base will slip and even drop some. I have tried cinching the base with a ratchet strap, which will keep the base from descending without you, but its still problematic and would take several paragraphs to explain all the scenarios.
I agree hand climber base is an option, but it is far from ideal and is not safe unless you use SRT gear as your tether system girth hitched to the trunk while you ascend. Otherwise if the platform slips either while climbing or when you go off to shoot around the tree you might have to shimmy down the tree with legs and arms, but only after shimming back up enough to get your weight off the tether to disconnect it to then be able to shimmy down. Bad situation to be in unless you are very, very athletic.
I think using a one stick method or a few steps with aiders and mini platform like the predator with SRT gear as your tether is less trouble and about the same weight or just slightly more than the hand climber. The SRT gear makes the whole operation very safe as you can just belay to the ground no matter what happens at the platform level or with your climbing method. You can also reascend on the SRT gear if need be to retrieve any junk remaining up in the tree after a mishap. :)
If you're already a stick and lock-on user the saddle or a rock climbing harness and tether system alone as a replacement to your fall arrest harness will give you freedom and safety to shoot around the tree like you never experienced. Its a game changer. Further experimenting with steps or modified sticks and aiders, mini-platfrms etc is secondary to the saddle and tether's function on the tree. IMO that is the big deal with saddle hunting, flexibility and safety at hunting height, not overall weight savings with the complete system.
Wonder what I am doing wrong? I got the Kestrel with all the bells and whistles. I never got past the trial period just hanging 3' off the ground. It just felt awkward. I tried it 4-5 times but then lost interest.
Do you all use knee pads? I had not tried it with knee pads. It's been on the shelf unused since June.
Maybe I need to try again. It sound like you can shoot behind you better than a treestand? I had numerous time this year where I could not get a shot off at deer that were in range but I couldn't get around the tree.
Tedd
Quote from: Tedd on January 04, 2019, 10:44:50 AM
Wonder what I am doing wrong? I got the Kestrel with all the bells and whistles. I never got past the trial period just hanging 3' off the ground. It just felt awkward. I tried it 4-5 times but then lost interest.
Do you all use knee pads? I had not tried it with knee pads. It's been on the shelf unused since June.
Maybe I need to try again. It sound like you can shoot behind you better than a treestand? I had numerous time this year where I could not get a shot off at deer that were in range but I couldn't get around the tree.
Tedd
Hey Tedd, where in Pa are ya? I'd be glad to help you out if you ever get to N Westmoreland County.
There are 2 basic positions with a saddle..."sitters" or "learners". If you want to primarily sit, then knee pads will be a huge help. I mostly lean with about 50% of my weight on my feet and 50% on my butt. I can easily spend 4 hours in that position. But I do like to rest a little on long days, so knee pads allow me to rest my knees against the tree for short periods. But mostly, I just lean back.
Tether height and bridge length will effect comfort a lot.
I think a platform is more comfortable than a ring of steps (ROS). Some guys love ROS. I'm a platform (Predator platform) guy.
I can shoot 360 around most trees from my Predator with one extra step on each side. I can shoot 360 without the extra steps, but
I have much more slow-control movement around the tree if I have a step on each side of the Predator. My top step, for however I climbed the tree, will be located at platform height on my weak side (weak side is the right side for a right hand shooter) so that step is necessary for climbing anyway. The strong side step can be one added to the platform strap, or it can be a screw-in or bolt where legal. Sometimes it will work out that a branch is in just the perfect spot to step out onto from the platform. I have 1 Ameristep strap-on step about 10" off the platform on my strong side.
Tree selection is much better with a saddle. I can't tell you how often there is only one tree in the right spot and it's leaning toward the direction I expect to shoot. The side the tree is leaning to is horrible for a stand and the opposite side won't allow a shot because the trunk is in the way. Trying to hang a stand on a side lean doesn't work either for most stand designs.
But with a saddle, I can be on the opposite side of the lean and still be able to shoot toward the direction of the tree's lean.
To me, there's nothing worse than trying to sit in a traditional hang on stand on the side the tree leans. Not only is it uncomfortable, there's also the chance I won't have elbow clearance of the trunk when I draw. If my elbow bumps something when I reach full draw, I will blow the shot 99% of the time.
ditto Tom1958. I do both, sit and lean...I wear simple McDavid hex knee pads, over my base layer, under my outers all the time now...even if I'm ground hunting. I've punished my knees for far to long and can't kneel for very long without discomfort. so when I'm in the saddle and sit, the knee pads help against the tree. I have also used the seat cushion fro a treestand strapped to the tree at knee height before and it works (its just another thing to carry).
look at the http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=165438.msg2839935#msg2839935 (http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=165438.msg2839935#msg2839935) thread for ease of shooting videos with a stickbow.
PS...I use 2 or 3 Stepp ladder steps as my platform (depending on tree dia') and love it! depending on your foot size, the heel of your boot can sit right down inside the space between the step and the tree.
Quote from: deerfly on January 03, 2019, 10:46:42 PM
I'm a converted saddle hunter too, best thing I ever did and I just turned 61. Not for everyone and does require some learning curve. I took it another level learning how to use arborist SRT climbing technique and rated gear, which if you have suitable trees with enough low level limbs eliminates the need for steps or sticks to ascend and descend the tree. I can't use SRT all the places I hunt but when I can its the lightest possible setup otherwise I use either sticks or steps. Regardless of how you climb or whether you use a regular lock-on platform or one of the smaller platforms the saddle and tether is the key, which is safer than a fall arrest system but also allows you to safely go off platform and shoot all around the tree. Once you practice this a couple feet of the ground then take it up the tree its hard not to love.
That is great I never tried using the SRT method myself but I'm glad to see at 61 you are experimenting and blowing the notion out of the water it's only a young man's game! I have a couple of buddies who are older and hardcore hunters and they keep telling me they are too old to try anything new... Just goes to show that as long as you keep an open mind you are never too old to try a new techniques or methods. Good hunting and have fun!
ha! thanks Roger, I've been fairly athletic all my life and still in decent shape for my age, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I have to work harder to go hard these days and it hurts longer afterwards. Still, the SRT thing wasn't a big deal physically for me. I've always been that guy that walks for miles if necessary but I've also incorporated some mountain biking and canoeing where I can into my scouting and hunting regimen the past 10 years or so too. I've always had that go for it attitude and doing some of these things tends to help me stay in better shape, although I could stand to lose about 20lbs right now. :)
from a non user perspective this thing looks too constrictive,,,, by what I'm seeing you guys can't shoot forward, certain angles with canted bow because the bottom limb will hit the tree or the opposite side of tree than your bow holding hand?
I heard from compound shooting friends these are very comfortable and they can shoot a lot of angles with their 34" bows, but how bout a long stickbow. in a climber or chain on stand I know I can shoot 360 degrees if I'm standing cause I can lean out,,, sometimes I've leaned out so far my lanyard held me there at a steep angle MAYBE same as this tree saddle would do I'm not sure,,, serious question--> can you shoot all directions with this set up without pushing your feet and walking against the bark and making that bark noise that makes deer look up which I had happen with fleece jackets when sitting down in a stand.
Quote from: Tajue17 on January 05, 2019, 09:02:33 AM
from a non user perspective this thing looks too constrictive,,,, by what I'm seeing you guys can't shoot forward, certain angles with canted bow because the bottom limb will hit the tree or the opposite side of tree than your bow holding hand?
I heard from compound shooting friends these are very comfortable and they can shoot a lot of angles with their 34" bows, but how bout a long stickbow. in a climber or chain on stand I know I can shoot 360 degrees if I'm standing cause I can lean out,,, sometimes I've leaned out so far my lanyard held me there at a steep angle MAYBE same as this tree saddle would do I'm not sure,,, serious question--> can you shoot all directions with this set up without pushing your feet and walking against the bark and making that bark noise that makes deer look up which I had happen with fleece jackets when sitting down in a stand.
If you compare an apples to apple style of shooting, the saddle still blows away a traditional stand and conventional harness for shooting 360. I shoot 60" and 64" recurves from my saddle with no issues. Actually, I think I worried about bow clearance MORE when shooting from a traditional hang-on stand than with a saddle and mini platform.
Yes, there is a chance of making noise against the bark if you are using a ring of steps. Its one reason why I don't like a ROS. I much prefer a Predator platform rather than a ROS.
When it comes to mobility in the tree, there's no way a traditional harness can compare with a saddle.
I'm not sure if this was already stated in this thread, but a saddle also allows the hunter to remain on the side of the tree with shade. Can't really "follow the shade" as the sun moves across the sky with a conventional stand and harness. I'm often stuck on the seat with sun glare in my eyes and with less effective camo when in the sun. Its usually better to be in the shade for maximum camouflage. And on hot days, being in the sun sucks. Its nice to position myself in the shade of the tree trunk.
Conversely, on frigid days I may want to soak some rays and get out of the shade of the tree trunk. You can't pick and choose position in the tree with a conventional harness.
I'd like to make a point about bow canting. I'm primarily a whitetail hunter, shooting from a tree 90% of the time. I think canting limits my shooting more than a vertically held bow.
I've learned to shoot just as well with my recurve held vertically without having to worry if my bow limbs will clear the trunk when shooting toward the backside of the tree. Think about it...we are standing in a vertical tree...keeping the bow parallel to the tree allows much more range of clearance for our limbs. I do practice shooting with a cant for those times I have no choice but to cant, but those times are few.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow??? as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!
not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,, so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?
Quote from: Tajue17 on January 05, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow??? as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!
not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,, so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?
I think there are some YouTube vids somewhere that show guys shooting trad bows from a saddle.
I usually wear hats with a bill too, and it helps but it ain't as good as actually being in the shade. The shade aspect is just one more perk of a saddle...it's not a make or break reason to own one, but it's a nice luxury to have the ability to adjust positions in the tree.
Do my feet hurt? Not when using a mini platform. And not on a ROS during shorter hunts. But on an all-day hang, IMO, ROS suck.
One difficulty about ROS that a lot guys have is shooting toward their weak side. A lot of us tend to under draw shooting weak side from a ROS and we don't shoot well. It's 50% of the reason why I prefer a Predator platform. When deer are presenting shots for me in that "weak side zone", I just stand on the platform and shoot just like I was standing on my Screaming Eagle stand.
Tree saddles are a very personalized style of being in a tree. I doubt any 2 saddle guys do things the same way. The greatest variations seem to be in climbing methods... which needs to be address just the same with conventional stands, and foot placement. There are as many variations with styles of ROS or platforms, or presets or run and gun set-ups as there are guys in saddles.
Saddles, and their associated gear and set-up, do take some learning. No denying that. I think that's where guys get turned off. They expect to go straight from a ladder or conventional stand to a saddle with no learning curve. It's not the case. But after a couple years of hunting from a saddle, there is no way I will ever go back to conventional harnesses. Even when I hunt out of a traditional hang-on, I still wear my saddle.
And I've said it a 100 times, saddles are the greatest thing for hanging conventional stands. Once you hang a stand while attached to the tree via a tether, you will never hang another stand while using a lineman belt. The difference is mind blowing.
Quote from: Tajue17 on January 05, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow??? as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!
not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,, so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?
Forgot to tell you...There are guys over at saddlehunter.com from MA that are talking about a get-together. I'm positive they would welcome you with open arms if you wanted to join them and try-out some stuff. https://saddlehunter.com/community/index.php?threads/massachusetts-saddle-get-together.11010/
Quote from: deerfly on January 05, 2019, 12:23:26 AM
ha! thanks Roger, I've been fairly athletic all my life and still in decent shape for my age, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I have to work harder to go hard these days and it hurts longer afterwards. Still, the SRT thing wasn't a big deal physically for me. I've always been that guy that walks for miles if necessary but I've also incorporated some mountain biking and canoeing where I can into my scouting and hunting regimen the past 10 years or so too. I've always had that go for it attitude and doing some of these things tends to help me stay in better shape, although I could stand to lose about 20lbs right now. :)
Deerfly,
Sounds to me that the younger guys would have a hard time keeping up with you! As for the twenty pounds, I don't know many of us that couldn't stand to lose at least that much, especially after the holidays! I find the saddle lends itself to hunting further back and many times I have worn mine scouting looking for a new location, I never did that with a climber or a hang on stand.
Myself I prefer pre-set locations but I have experimented more this year with a run and gun approach using a set of Muddy Pro sticks. Of the two I still prefer the pre-set system but I won't hesitate to do an on the fly hunt if I find fresh sign. As to the SRT I have read about it but have never experimented because I would need to get the right equipment and more rope, maybe one day I will.
I just wish some of the older guys that I know and are friends with were as open-minded as you I think it would improve their hunting experience or at the very least give them another tool in the hunting toolbox. Best of luck to you and I hope I am as active and willing to try new things at 61 as you are, I still have seven years to go!
Roger,
tajue check out this guys videos. I think he's one of founders or principles at tethered.
https://www.youtube.com/user/G2Adventures/videos
Quote from: Tajue17 on January 05, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
any videos anywhere of someone demonstrating all these shooting angles with a stickbow??? as for the sun I wear a cap with a trimmed visor that's not an issue,, now the thermals form the sun maybe I guess but I would love to duck out of that wind at 10degrees!
not knocking the saddle just curious about it,,, so your feet stay on the tree steps the whole time does that start to hurt your feet/arches?
Tajue17,
Yes, Boswell has a video on YouTube showing him shooting a longbow from the Trophyline TreeSaddle.
https://youtu.be/TLzUcHZxG5c
You can tuck yourself against the tree you are just facing it instead of it being at your back. Also, you would not set up with your shots or the deer trail in front of you would set up with the trail or anticipated location of the deer to your left for a right-hand shooter and to the right for a left- hand shooter. As with all shooting from trees, there can be a degree of difficulty on certain shots with a traditional stand or saddle.
As to your feet bothering you for some, they do claim a little discomfort especially when using screw in tree-steps but many people use a small platform, a ring of Ameri-Steps, or Wild Edge Steps and have no issues at all. I have a couple of pre-set locations where I use screw in tree-steps and all I do is just shift my weight from one foot to the other or move my foot from the arch to the ball and it alleviates the pressure.
I hope this helps and as I said before I think they are a tool that should be in every bowhunters toolbox for that spot that a traditional type of stand just isn't the right tool for the job. Good Hunting...
Roger,
roger, the older you get the faster you get old. You'll be there in no time. :)
Quote from: Tom1958 on January 05, 2019, 09:49:07 AM
Quote from: Tajue17 on January 05, 2019, 09:02:33 AM
from a non user perspective this thing looks too constrictive,,,, by what I'm seeing you guys can't shoot forward, certain angles with canted bow because the bottom limb will hit the tree or the opposite side of tree than your bow holding hand?
I heard from compound shooting friends these are very comfortable and they can shoot a lot of angles with their 34" bows, but how bout a long stickbow. in a climber or chain on stand I know I can shoot 360 degrees if I'm standing cause I can lean out,,, sometimes I've leaned out so far my lanyard held me there at a steep angle MAYBE same as this tree saddle would do I'm not sure,,, serious question--> can you shoot all directions with this set up without pushing your feet and walking against the bark and making that bark noise that makes deer look up which I had happen with fleece jackets when sitting down in a stand.
If you compare an apples to apple style of shooting, the saddle still blows away a traditional stand and conventional harness for shooting 360. I shoot 60" and 64" recurves from my saddle with no issues. Actually, I think I worried about bow clearance MORE when shooting from a traditional hang-on stand than with a saddle and mini platform.
Yes, there is a chance of making noise against the bark if you are using a ring of steps. Its one reason why I don't like a ROS. I much prefer a Predator platform rather than a ROS.
When it comes to mobility in the tree, there's no way a traditional harness can compare with a saddle.
I'm not sure if this was already stated in this thread, but a saddle also allows the hunter to remain on the side of the tree with shade. Can't really "follow the shade" as the sun moves across the sky with a conventional stand and harness. I'm often stuck on the seat with sun glare in my eyes and with less effective camo when in the sun. Its usually better to be in the shade for maximum camouflage. And on hot days, being in the sun sucks. Its nice to position myself in the shade of the tree trunk.
Conversely, on frigid days I may want to soak some rays and get out of the shade of the tree trunk. You can't pick and choose position in the tree with a conventional harness.
I'd like to make a point about bow canting. I'm primarily a whitetail hunter, shooting from a tree 90% of the time. I think canting limits my shooting more than a vertically held bow.
I've learned to shoot just as well with my recurve held vertically without having to worry if my bow limbs will clear the trunk when shooting toward the backside of the tree. Think about it...we are standing in a vertical tree...keeping the bow parallel to the tree allows much more range of clearance for our limbs. I do practice shooting with a cant for those times I have no choice but to cant, but those times are few.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Tom all great points and the only place we differ is the platform vs the ROS. While I will agree for most people the platform will provide more comfort and be much more familiar I think when it comes to trees with a large diameter leaning instead of moving around the tree will limit some shots. How much depends on the diameter of the tree and how willing you are to stand on the edge of the platform. Now if you add a Wild Edge step on either side of the platform that is the best of both worlds and doesn't add hardly any weight at all.
I personally prefer a ring of steps just because I like to move around the tree and I like the flexibility it provides, can I say it's better than a platform especially when you can add a step on each side and I would have to say no it's not better but I still like the ring of steps. I have never had a deer spook from any noise either, my feet rarely come in contact with the bark as I move around, so while some have voiced concern over this I have never experienced it while hunting. I like to move slowly around the tree and scan my surroundings and try and spot the deer before they get close enough for a shot. I also like to lean with one leg straight and the other bent sort of facing away from the tree and the ring of steps allows me to do these things easily. As with a lot of things with the saddle, it comes down to personal preference and dialing it into your hunting style.
I am planning on trying and experimenting this year more with platforms, Wild Edge steps, and even some marine exhaust tubing and combinations of them all as platform options this year I will keep you posted. I think the main thing to keep in mind is that with the saddle the options and combinations are almost limitless and that allows us to adapt to almost any hunting situation we encounter. Don't be afraid to experiment and try a saddle with all the different platforms until you find the one that fits your needs and hunting style. Much like traditional bows, their strengths are there simplicity and versatility in the field.
Roger,
Quote from: deerfly on January 05, 2019, 11:36:45 AM
roger, the older you get the faster you get old. You'll be there in no time. :)
Haha, Deerfly good one I will have to use that one on my buddies! My favorite line about age and I'm not sure who said it or if I'm bastardizing it is: "Youth and vigor is no match for age and treachery."! If I had the wisdom and patience I have now combined with the strength and vigor of when I was twenty I would be a deer assassin! :goldtooth:
Now if I can only figure out how to support myself by deer hunting instead of working I would be set.... :biglaugh:
Roger
okay I'm going to have to check this out,, thanks for all the links I might have to look into one of these for next season,,, being honest I think my LW hand climber messed my lower back up two separate times hence why I'm height shy above 10' with them now..
went to that treesaddle forum on that Mass meetup and that's pretty cool I might try to make it but I don't want to register there just yet until I know I want one,,, Hickstick has one though I know him maybe hick can show me his.
I have the guidos web. I had a tree saddle. I think the web is great for rifle, super comfy and no knee pads necessary, but it's not perfect for Trad bow. I'm going to try some more and it works but all the moving people speak of is noisier than you'd think in a quiet woods. Pretty much have to set up with the correct direction because turning around isn't a piece of cake. That's my experience. I'll have to try the lone wolf seat as a platform I like that idea. You just need to bungee it to the tree and it stays put.
Tried mine again today. Getting used to it now. I'm going to keep at it so I can add a tree saddle to my options. My accuracy isn't good out of it yet. I feel a little tight over all, like I can't rotate fully when drawing. I lift weights every other day and am probably stiffer than I should be. I have pretty poor flexibility.
Not wanting to hi-jack, but this thread did help me with something else. After watching a bunch of tree saddle bow shooting videos, one guy did something that got me thinking about how to increase my "behind the tree shooting" out of a lone wolf climber. I worked on that, made a quick mod and now have really increased the shooting coverage. I'll post it on another thread.
Tedd
Overspined, bungee will only help keep it from slipping down the tree. The seat component needs more pressure than a bungee can provide to sink the teeth in deep enough without any other weight on the platform to resist slipping as you push on it from the sides while maneuvering around the tree. If you use a bungee, when it slips and it will, it will effect your ability to move and it will also make some noise as the teeth crunch against the bark as it shifts. In my experience you won't be able to move around the tree with any confidence that the base won't slip without a ratchet strap. Attaching the ratchet can be tricky while perched on such a small platform though.
That said, if you're able to deal with the issues involved in using the climber seat it can work. All things considered it was just too much of a PIA for me. Sticks and a predator platform is just so much less time and hassle to get in and out of the tree. Plus the predator is a superior platform on the tree vs a climber seat.
I think if you really want to use a climber approach, you'd be better off using the platform base instead of the seat. Its big enough to move around on as you need to make those adjustments and then attach the ratchet. Of course its heavier than the seat, but it will be easier, safer and you'll have more real estate to move around on.
I thought about doing a video with mine yesterday to demonstrate what I'm talking about, but had too many other things I needed to do. As luck would have it though I found 2 videos a couple guys did about this very subject. They were published a week or so ago, not many have viewed them yet, but they are very good at showing the issues using the climber seat.
Part 1 is a guy that is very nimble and version 2 someone not so nimble, non flexible was the term he uses, lol. My experience was somewhere between these two with both adjusting the cam on the fly and securing the strap. Both videos they use some kind of strap to secure the climber seat. I can't tell if its a ratchet or cam buckle though. I used a ratchet.
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p06VPm8WHjA
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV2NDFCv_7c
Around 8:20 into part 2 you can see where he starts pushing from the sides and you can see the stand flex on the tree. In my experience the more you do this the more the teeth cut into the bark and the loser the seat became and would eventually start to slip. If you pushed from farther out on the platform where you have more leverage then that would strain the connection more easily too. Even with ratchet tension to start, it needed an additional click or two as after the teeth sawed deeper into the bark. To be fair in most hunting situations you wouldn't move that much in the tree, so the sawing effect would be less. But it can and does happen requiring additional tightening, which requires more movement and noise.
In terms of noise, I tested the climber seat on old growth pine, oak, hickory, sweetgum and swamp ash. I have all this on my property so it was easy to do. Of those pine was the noisiest by far. In part 2 he states it wasn't noisy. I couldn't tell either way, but the tree he's on looks like some kind of hardwood, so his experience noise wise jives with mine.
Another thing and I think important, I used a 36' climbing rope in SRT configuration (petzl rig, hand ascender with foot aider) as my tether system, which is all rated search and rescue and arborist gear and technique. In part 2 he uses a somewhat precarious method with the tether and his linemans belt to go off the platform to make adjustments. Too risky for me. With SRT system I could easily and safely go off the platform to make the adjustments then ascend back up on the platform to continue. When descending I just went off the platform, disconnected it from the tree, dropped it on the ground and lowered myself down on the climbing line. Very easy and very safe. SRT requires more equipment and it can be noisy if you're not careful, but I'll take safety over noise every time.
Also, using SRT system as my tether I have the option to descend but leave the climbing line and platform in the tree. Then for whatever reason re-ascend on the rope without having to go through all the hassle of climbing with the seat again. Or take everything down and move on.
Ted...no prob...I can definitely help you out. we are getting together towards the end of April at Auburn Sportsmans club. Let me know.
Quote from: deerfly on January 07, 2019, 09:28:19 AM
Overspined, bungee will only help keep it from slipping down the tree. The seat component needs more pressure than a bungee can provide to sink the teeth in deep enough without any other weight on the platform to resist slipping as you push on it from the sides while maneuvering around the tree. If you use a bungee, when it slips and it will, it will effect your ability to move and it will also make some noise as the teeth crunch against the bark as it shifts. In my experience you won't be able to move around the tree with any confidence that the base won't slip without a ratchet strap. Attaching the ratchet can be tricky while perched on such a small platform though.
That said, if you're able to deal with the issues involved in using the climber seat it can work. All things considered it was just too much of a PIA for me. Sticks and a predator platform is just so much less time and hassle to get in and out of the tree. Plus the predator is a superior platform on the tree vs a climber seat.
I think if you really want to use a climber approach, you'd be better off using the platform base instead of the seat. Its big enough to move around on as you need to make those adjustments and then attach the ratchet. Of course its heavier than the seat, but it will be easier, safer and you'll have more real estate to move around on.
I thought about doing a video with mine yesterday to demonstrate what I'm talking about, but had too many other things I needed to do. As luck would have it though I found 2 videos a couple guys did about this very subject. They were published a week or so ago, not many have viewed them yet, but they are very good at showing the issues using the climber seat.
Part 1 is a guy that is very nimble and version 2 someone not so nimble, non flexible was the term he uses, lol. My experience was somewhere between these two with both adjusting the cam on the fly and securing the strap. Both videos they use some kind of strap to secure the climber seat. I can't tell if its a ratchet or cam buckle though. I used a ratchet.
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p06VPm8WHjA
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV2NDFCv_7c
Around 8:20 into part 2 you can see where he starts pushing from the sides and you can see the stand flex on the tree. In my experience the more you do this the more the teeth cut into the bark and the loser the seat became and would eventually start to slip. If you pushed from farther out on the platform where you have more leverage then that would strain the connection more easily too. Even with ratchet tension to start, it needed an additional click or two as after the teeth sawed deeper into the bark. To be fair in most hunting situations you wouldn't move that much in the tree, so the sawing effect would be less. But it can and does happen requiring additional tightening, which requires more movement and noise.
In terms of noise, I tested the climber seat on old growth pine, oak, hickory, sweetgum and swamp ash. I have all this on my property so it was easy to do. Of those pine was the noisiest by far. In part 2 he states it wasn't noisy. I couldn't tell either way, but the tree he's on looks like some kind of hardwood, so his experience noise wise jives with mine.
Another thing and I think important, I used a 36' climbing rope in SRT configuration (petzl rig, hand ascender with foot aider) as my tether system, which is all rated search and rescue and arborist gear and technique. In part 2 he uses a somewhat precarious method with the tether and his linemans belt to go off the platform to make adjustments. Too risky for me. With SRT system I could easily and safely go off the platform to make the adjustments then ascend back up on the platform to continue. When descending I just went off the platform, disconnected it from the tree, dropped it on the ground and lowered myself down on the climbing line. Very easy and very safe. SRT requires more equipment and it can be noisy if you're not careful, but I'll take safety over noise every time.
Also, using SRT system as my tether I have the option to descend but leave the climbing line and platform in the tree. Then for whatever reason re-ascend on the rope without having to go through all the hassle of climbing with the seat again. Or take everything down and move on.
Deerfly all great points, people have to keep in mind that climbers were meant to be used in certain ways especially the hand climber portion and side pressure is not something they were designed for. Small platforms that rachet or strap onto the tree is a much better option than a hand climber. That is one of the reasons I prefer a ring of steps instead of a platform because I know that I would constantly be standing or putting pressure on the outside edge of the stand. I feel a couple of Wild Edge steps or a platform and a Wild Edge step on each side would be much better than a small platform alone or a ring of steps.
As to the SRT and safety, there is no doubt that using the proper equipment when climbing or descending will ensure a safe ascent and descent, the SRT approach offers even more options than sticks and a lineman's belt. I am a big proponent of preset locations and mostly use Muddy Pro Sticks when I find a new location or smoking fresh sign and need to quickly switch locations. This year I plan to experiment with the Wild Edge Steps in place of my ring of steps for my run and gun steps and even some of my preset locations.
Roger,
Roger, I have 4 of the Wild Edge steps. Still trying to love them. Only did a few hunts with 2 of them adjacent to the top rung of my top climbing stick. They worked really good once I got them cammed over with the right amount of tension to hold firm. It took resetting them a time or two before I had it right tho.
I didn't like having to peek around the tree to make sure the cam straps weren't overlapping each other either, which would complicate re-camming them. A little too much going on there for my likes and maybe I just need to use them more so I get them cammed over right the first time around...
I agree the ROS is better for getting around the tree than just the Predator and one or two steps would make a nice compliment to the Predator too. However, I like the simplicity of only the Predator, its just 1 thing to bring up and attach when I get up there and 1 thing to take down regardless of which method I used to climb.
Watching this guy is what got me to try the steps in the first place. He only uses 3 or 4 steps to get pretty high up. The idea of using 8 or 10 of them gives me headache just to think about it. I don't like the knee aider thing some of those other guys are doing either. Anyway, I need to practice this guys 3-4 step technique and could see where the Predator would be a capable addition adjacent to the top step with only about 7-8lbs of metal involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sRVnQaEYag
Lots of options with these saddles...
those wild edge steps,, they look a lot like Jim Stepps..
Quote from: BRONZ on December 25, 2018, 10:16:34 PM
I need to up my versatility with hang and hunts. Anyone use of treesaddle? Thoughts? Thoughts on shooting shooting a trad bow from one? Model choice?
Thx in advance!
I bought into the saddle crazy early 2017, and I can say it definitely has its advantages and disadvantages when it comes to using traditional gear. I just use it as an option for real far public land spots and for thick close shot opportunity areas. I went back to my lonewolf set up for 99% of my run and gun... everyone is pushing the mantis but check out new tribes kestrel ( non mesh ). Its addictive so get ready to spend if you take the leap lol ....
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Quote from: Tajue17 on January 08, 2019, 03:51:57 AM
those wild edge steps,, they look a lot like Jim Stepps..
Ted, they are! :) Andy (the owner of Wild Edge) grew up with Jim, and Jim gave him all the tooling/patent docs and such to start the business...they are actually still called Stepp Ladder by Wild Edge. they are based in CT too.
I used 2 to 3 Stepp Ladder steps as my platform depending on the diameter of the tree. I love them. rock solid and comfortable. just ordered a few more so I can do a couple of pre-sets on the farm next fall.
Deerfly, they do take some practice to get the cam over right, and there are also some situations where the tree just wont accommodate them in a certain spot...but you can usually move them a few inches one way or the other and they set right up. I used them in combo with my Leverage Climbing sticks because I'm faster with those, but would love to ditch the sticks cause they are heavy and long to pack.
i really liked the idea of the saddles, their compactness and versatility but at the time i did not have spare funds available to buy one.
Then I came across the tree seat, and have built many iterations since then.
i think i have finally settled on a good solid design now.
In comparison, i like the overall package of the saddle- a nice complete, comfy looking unit, but i prefer the lighter weight, and low, (almost zero) cost of the tree seat. I also really like the offset leg of the tree seat, that keeps my knees off the tree- its really comfortable, no need for knee pads etc.
Additionally i like the fact that i can use it at ground level as a "Torges seat" if need be.
i like the low cost, and that i am able to build it myself- a sucker for punishment maybe...
All the rest appears to be the same to me, the climbing and the setup, the need for foot rests, and the huge versatility in shooting positions.
i still like the seat as an optional tool , but i mostly ground hunt nowadays, just for the increased versatility.
Our Sitka Blacktail really dont pattern. So i may setup and call, and move, maybe 15 to 20 times a day, looking for sign of deer in the area. its a system that works well up here, but may not work anywhere else.
I used one for the majority of my hunts for 2 years as I really liked the concept initially. I used 3 different models but they just aren't for me. Very uncomfortable and required excessive movement to shooot to the weak side. Maybe not a big deal if I hunted 20 feet or more but I like to be around 14-16. I really wasn't saving much in terms of weight compared to a smaller lone wolf either.
My reason for using a Kestrel from Aerohunter is that with a saddle, you are not going to loose you balance and fall.
That piece of mind is worth the learning curve.
At age 24, I never considered this. At age 54, its the only way I want to spend 4 hrs at 16 ft.
kerry, IMO the safety increase of a saddle and tether over traditional fall arrest harnesses is the "big deal" with saddles. Weight savings and the ability to have more options to shoot around the tree are secondary. I wish I would have switched to saddles or even rock climbing harness for safety gear years ago.
Quote from: deerfly on January 11, 2019, 10:26:11 PM
kerry, IMO the safety increase of a saddle and tether over traditional fall arrest harnesses is the "big deal" with saddles. Weight savings and the ability to have more options to shoot around the tree are secondary. I wish I would have switched to saddles or even rock climbing harness for safety gear years ago.
The main thing that got me wanting a saddle was due an issue with falling asleep in the tree.
For some unknown reason, over the last several years, I've had many days that I just couldn't stay awake in the tree. I guess after day in and day out of 11 hours per day in a stand, takes a toll on me. Then, if its a slow day and sunny and warm, I fall asleep. I mean out cold, dream state, snoring and drooling. I knew it was just a matter of time until I fell off the platform and be rudely awakened by the yank of my conventional harness.
So I got a Kestrel. Funny thing...even though I can now snooze safely, I haven't had the issue since I got the saddle.
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I can nod off in the saddle IF I am seated, with head on bridge, and I use a back band for comfort. I can slide it around till the back band hits the tree, keeping my knees off tree or I can use knee pads.
lol, you guys are more adventurous than me dozing in the saddle. That said, I think its probably very safe, but I would still practice at ground level first. :)
Quote from: deerfly on January 12, 2019, 01:03:42 PM
lol, you guys are more adventurous than me dozing in the saddle. That said, I think its probably very safe, but I would still practice at ground level first. :)
Even before I had a saddle, I was completely comfortable in a tree. I had no fear of heights, or climbing, or even hunting all-day sits on some pretty small, homemade platforms with crappy homemade seats.
But after hunting from conventional platforms (like a Screaming Eaglet) WITH a saddle, I can't imagine ever going back to a regular harness. Yeah, I still occasionally hunt from conventional stands, but I do so while wearing a saddle. There's no more worrying about foot placement, or balance. With a conventional harness, I always felt like I needed at least 2 points of contact...either 2 feet, or 1 foot and an elbow against the tree when shifting positions. Or I'd need to shuffle feet while turning. Man, with a saddle I do everything I need to and the feeling of safety is 100%.
I will NEVER hunt again without a saddle. Even ground level hunting...a saddle is a great seat. Just tether to a tree but with feet on the ground. And I can maneuver around a tree easier and quieter (on the ground level) than I can without a saddle. No trying to stand for hours on uneven or sloped ground and getting a sore back.
And I will repeat an earlier point...once you hang a conventional stand with a saddle (while tethered to the tree as opposed to using a lineman belt), you will wonder how you ever did it the old way. I'm still trying to think what possible downsides there is by owning a saddle...I can't come up with any.