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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: DanielB89 on December 17, 2018, 11:00:25 AM

Title: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: DanielB89 on December 17, 2018, 11:00:25 AM
With today's 3D targets getting smaller and smaller it's very easy to accidentally hit one of the pieces of metal in the legs. At one time, this wasn't a huge concern, but I have seen a drastic decrease in arrow toughness.  Specifically, when hitting something hard and the insert and point getting pushed back into the shaft splitting the shaft.  Now, every arrow shaft that I buy new must be footed with a 1.5" piece of aluminum arrow shaft. 

I remember Charlie Lamb started a thread on footing sizes and it is worth it's weight in gold.  With prices rising and quality dropping protect your arrows to the best of your ability.  This could also save you from the arrow splitting on a marginal shot. 

An added benefit is adding the footing is a slightly increased FOC as most aluminums weight more than your average carbon's gpi. 

Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: M60gunner on December 17, 2018, 04:27:22 PM
Yes, been doing it for years now.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: TomMcDonald on December 17, 2018, 05:00:12 PM
All the archery clubs I've been to won't allow footed shafts for fear they will decrease target longevity.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: KAZ on December 18, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
I foot all of mine as well... Very durable
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 01:12:13 AM
My shafts are footed from end to end.......Easton Axis Full Metal Jackets!!!!

Bisch
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Tedd on December 20, 2018, 06:12:24 AM
I'll agree some current shafting isn't too tough. Some of that could be the length of the points and broad heads we use. I think that puts some extra leverage on shaft right behind the insert. I have had two arrows fail right behind the insert in the last 3 seasons. Costing me a buck each time. And most 3d targets are too small and the foam in some of them is really hard.
I started started footing arrows, it's easy enough. But currently I am using Grizzlystiks. They have a really thick wall in the front and an insert with built in footing. The Grizzlystiks don't get many proponents on here but they work very well and are very tough.
Tedd
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: KAZ on December 20, 2018, 07:15:11 AM
Quote from: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 01:12:13 AM
My shafts are footed from end to end.......Easton Axis Full Metal Jackets!!!!

Bisch

I even foot my FMJs.... :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: TradBrewSC on December 20, 2018, 08:36:26 AM
Quote from: KAZ on December 20, 2018, 07:15:11 AM
Quote from: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 01:12:13 AM
My shafts are footed from end to end.......Easton Axis Full Metal Jackets!!!!

Bisch

I even foot my FMJs.... :goldtooth:

I do as well!
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: KAZ on December 20, 2018, 07:15:11 AM
Quote from: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 01:12:13 AM
My shafts are footed from end to end.......Easton Axis Full Metal Jackets!!!!

Bisch

I even foot my FMJs.... :goldtooth:

I'm as hard as the next guy on my arrows, and I just haven't seen the need??? I guess it would help a bit in the FOC dept, but the FMJ shafts have proven to be tough as nails for me, so I don't spend the time to foot mine.

Busch
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Bldtrailer on December 20, 2018, 09:49:51 AM
[attachment=1,msg2838281]like these
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Bldtrailer on December 20, 2018, 09:52:23 AM
do both ends it helps safe some arrows :bigsmyl: [attachment=1]
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 20, 2018, 10:03:15 AM
Look up Reparrows, perfect for easy footing and repairing wood arrows with tips broken off.

My late wife's arrows, she used to find a lot of rocks.







Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Terry Green on December 20, 2018, 11:20:52 AM
I'd like to know a list of all the arrow companies that their qualities went down.

Please list them all so we can stay clear of them, and we don't end up with half of one in our forearm. Thx.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: DanielB89 on December 20, 2018, 01:41:10 PM
Quote from: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: KAZ on December 20, 2018, 07:15:11 AM
Quote from: Bisch on December 20, 2018, 01:12:13 AM
My shafts are footed from end to end.......Easton Axis Full Metal Jackets!!!!

Bisch

I even foot my FMJs.... :goldtooth:

I'm as hard as the next guy on my arrows, and I just haven't seen the need??? I guess it would help a bit in the FOC dept, but the FMJ shafts have proven to be tough as nails for me, so I don't spend the time to foot mine.

Busch


I may be looking into them next then! I purchased some arrows that have been VERY good to me in the past and I'm a little disappointed with the quality of them.  I noticed some of the wood grain was wearing off just from shooting a foam target.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: yeager on December 20, 2018, 01:48:58 PM
Tom,

You said that all the clubs you attend will not allow footed shafts because they ruin their targets.  I do not understand that logic, as what would the difference be if you just shot an arrow the same size of the footed part of the shaft? I've never been to a club in my area that had that restriction, and the club I am a member of never has. Must be different in Australia.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Terry Green on December 20, 2018, 02:27:14 PM
Daniel I'm serious. I'm in the market for new arrows and not the brand I've been using for years. I'm looking for some lighter spine arrows for a few bows that I have that are lighter in poundage. So I don't want to waste my money on substandard arrows. Please post which arrows are going down in quality so we will all know what to look out for.

Thanks
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: TomMcDonald on December 20, 2018, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: yeager on December 20, 2018, 01:48:58 PM
Tom,

You said that all the clubs you attend will not allow footed shafts because they ruin their targets.  I do not understand that logic, as what would the difference be if you just shot an arrow the same size of the footed part of the shaft? I've never been to a club in my area that had that restriction, and the club I am a member of never has. Must be different in Australia.

Hi, I guess they're worried about the back of the footing gouging the target as you pull it out. Just another reason on the long list I don't bother with clubs anymore.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: yeager on December 20, 2018, 08:39:38 PM
👌
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Wudstix on December 20, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Just run a bead of epoxy around the trailing edge of the footing, problem solved.   :archer: :coffee:  :archer2:  I shoot tapered maple and don't have a problem.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: 4dogs on December 20, 2018, 11:39:13 PM
Terry, Why are you changing brands? I'm shooting the Nitros in 500's...I love em.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 21, 2018, 09:37:58 AM
I ran an archery club for about 15 years, we put on at least 100 tournaments during that time.

Anything you put in a target that is bigger on the head than the shaft is going to pull a plug out of the target when you pull arrows. My experience is from aluminum arrow days and I found a 2117 head on a 2018  shaft will pull a quarter sized plug out of a target on arrow extraction, at least on the Mckenzies we used. One shooter with mismatched point/shafts would be a human wrecking ball on our targets.

We put a lot of money and effort into our tournaments for very little return so a guy who didn't care if he tore up the targets was strongly cautioned to be more considerate in the future.
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: DanielB89 on December 21, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: Terry Green on December 20, 2018, 02:27:14 PM
Daniel I'm serious. I'm in the market for new arrows and not the brand I've been using for years. I'm looking for some lighter spine arrows for a few bows that I have that are lighter in poundage. So I don't want to waste my money on substandard arrows. Please post which arrows are going down in quality so we will all know what to look out for.

Thanks

Terry,

somehow I missed your post the first time.  The arrows i'm referring too are beman center shots.  They come in at around 9.6 gpi and have always been very good to me.  I am not sure what the deal is with this batch, but I broke 3 or 4 of them of them in a very short period of time.  I purchased a 3d target and it's a smaller rhinehart hog target, the metal stake in the leg goes all the way up to below the body line.  I have hit it a few times and split a couple.  Now, it only split 1/2" up the shaft and I was able to salvage the arrow by cutting that part off an footing it.  Another time I shot over the target and hit and tree and it did the same. 

All of those problems were solved by footing it. I think i'll continue to foot all mine just for peace of mind.  I don't want a failure when i accidentally hit a shoulder. 
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: GCook on December 21, 2018, 05:03:42 PM
Quote from: DanielB89 on December 21, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: Terry Green on December 20, 2018, 02:27:14 PM
Daniel I'm serious. I'm in the market for new arrows and not the brand I've been using for years. I'm looking for some lighter spine arrows for a few bows that I have that are lighter in poundage. So I don't want to waste my money on substandard arrows. Please post which arrows are going down in quality so we will all know what to look out for.

Thanks

Terry,

somehow I missed your post the first time.  The arrows i'm referring too are beman center shots.  They come in at around 9.6 gpi and have always been very good to me.  I am not sure what the deal is with this batch, but I broke 3 or 4 of them of them in a very short period of time.  I purchased a 3d target and it's a smaller rhinehart hog target, the metal stake in the leg goes all the way up to below the body line.  I have hit it a few times and split a couple.  Now, it only split 1/2" up the shaft and I was able to salvage the arrow by cutting that part off an footing it.  Another time I shot over the target and hit and tree and it did the same. 

All of those problems were solved by footing it. I think i'll continue to foot all mine just for peace of mind.  I don't want a failure when i accidentally hit a shoulder.
I have that same target.  The GT Warriors have had a couple of fails hitting that and solid object but the Black Eagle Vintage shafts have held up fine.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Longtoke on December 21, 2018, 08:16:52 PM
What size aluminum are you using for those small shafts. I have some 600 centershots I would like to foot
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Terry Green on December 21, 2018, 09:23:01 PM
thx
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: BigJim on December 22, 2018, 08:49:58 AM
I should have my new Big Jim "Dark Timber" arrows in about a month...+- and although they aren't indestructible, I have found them to be very tough.
Just playing around last week, I shot a 500 spine with no footing in to an oak tree and then three times through one side of a 55gal  steel drum.
Unable to damage it, I turned to a cinder block and fired away. The insert was pushed back a 1/2". I flexed it and shot it again. Another 1/2"!  After 5 shots in to the cinder block, my arrow was about 2"s shorter then when I started, but otherwise un harmed.
There was no footing on the shaft and I was using a 67lb bow at my 32" draw do test the durability of the arrows.

I will have more out there when they are ready, but they will take popular components and at a price point that will make every one smile in a good way.
All that and a very attractive wood grain pattern on all spines all the way out to 800 spine!
BigJim
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Alexander Traditional on December 23, 2018, 09:05:53 AM
Quote from: BigJim on December 22, 2018, 08:49:58 AM
I should have my new Big Jim "Dark Timber" arrows in about a month...+- and although they aren't indestructible, I have found them to be very tough.
Just playing around last week, I shot a 500 spine with no footing in to an oak tree and then three times through one side of a 55gal  steel drum.
Unable to damage it, I turned to a cinder block and fired away. The insert was pushed back a 1/2". I flexed it and shot it again. Another 1/2"!  After 5 shots in to the cinder block, my arrow was about 2"s shorter then when I started, but otherwise un harmed.
There was no footing on the shaft and I was using a 67lb bow at my 32" draw do test the durability of the arrows.

I will have more out there when they are ready, but they will take popular components and at a price point that will make every one smile in a good way.
All that and a very attractive wood grain pattern on all spines all the way out to 800 spine!
BigJim

They sound good Jim,who's going to be making them for you?
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: BigJim on December 23, 2018, 09:26:20 AM
They are coming from a reputable company that I've been working with for a while.. They are imported... as are most of the other companies.
BigJim
Title: Re: Arrow toughness advice.. footings
Post by: Tedd on December 23, 2018, 09:34:53 AM
I think there are plenty tough arrows but they are often heavier than you need for deer hunting.
Here is a link to the Victory catalog the specs on Grizzlystiks. I think it is page 20.
https://www.victoryarchery.com/Catalog-Hunting/
With the Grizzlystik TDT you can get a really tough arrow that is not overly heavy.
I've been shooting them for months with no failures, the insert/outsert works fine. The carbon around the front end is thicker than the typical carbon shaft. I don't feel like breaking one to see how tough it is but I haven't found the limit of them yet.
The shafts that I had most recently had trouble with was the Axis Woodgrain. I always knew the were fragile to  side impact but they also broke right behind the insert when using 250 grain points and long broad heads.
Tedd