Sure does to this one! Got 'er did with a very special bow this evening. Long story short, I've been in a slump. Shot clean over 3 deer in 3 days...I'm convinced they are on meth and chasing it with Red Bull. Taking shots at what I thought were at least semi-relaxed deer, they ducked the arrow like it was a magic act...then explode out of there.
Went to a spot where two of the three misses have occurred. Place is rotton with deer, and I was determined...I might shoot under one, but I wasn't about to watch my arrow fly over again. I'd even added an extra set of silencers to the bow today to try and get it quieter. It helped...some...
Ok I lied. It's not going to be a short story. :bigsmyl:
10 minutes after 5, deer start coming out of the woods to the long, fairly narrow green field I'm hunting. I'm steadily telling myself "SHOOT LOW!". One of the mature does give me a shot. I pick my spot in the pocket behind her leg at the bottom of her chest and shoot. Got her! HEART SHOT....I think? She didn't duck, but rather whirled. Silencers must have helped because a couple of the others hesitated a couple of seconds before busting out of there.
Ok, now the hard part. Waiting. I was sure (I think?) it was a good shot, but it sounded weird. Not the "bomp" I've always heard...that good hollow sound. This was more like a "shnick"...like a cutting sound, but not hollow. Oh well, somehow I dodged the ribs...I think?
30 minutes went by unusually quick. I was about to gather up my stuff and...dang...deer start coming out of the woods again! 4 or 6, including a couple of bucks (big bodies, not much for antlers). One young doe comes over almost to the spot where I'd just shot her companion. She meanders around for a while. Nervous and curious. The mature deer just mosey on, never stopped or offered a shot (I could have killed a buck legally). I watched the young doe, then a second one, for a while. They wandered off, I gave it a while, now it's been an hour. Can't stand it anymore. Gotta' look.
I go to the spot. Nothing. Tracks everywhere, no way to pick out one set. I start criss-crossing the field looking for blood. Nada. Nothing. Zilch. Crap! Did I hit her leg?
I get to the end of the field, was thinking about calling a buddy of mine who is part (about 3/4) bloodhound and I see my nock off in the woods a little ways. Hot dog! At least there's my arrow...and maybe a clue as to where that deer went. I got closer...crap...it's just the arrow. I was dang near on top of it before I saw it was still planted in the deer, and she was DRT (Dead Right There). Never did find a drop of blood...but she'd only gone maybe 100 yds, and covered that distance in a few seconds and crashed in a full run.
Honestly the shot looked awful. Was NOT where I thought...she'd spun when I dropped the string, hit her WAY back...behind the rib cage..but she didn't go far, so I was happy. Maybe she saw my face and I uglied her to death? :scared:
Now, to get to the point of the post heading. Like I said, I was using a very special bow. It was gifted to me by Lenny Pierce, son of Mr. Jerry Pierce. Mr. Jerry didn't make this particular bow, but it was made on his press, with his woods, about a year after his passing. It was sold at the 2000 PBS Auction.
Lenny is a good friend, and gave me this bow several years ago with one condition. I had to try and kill something with it.
Well...I procrastinated. It's short...56" or 58". I draw 31" on it. It's light. 35@28, or a whopping 40.5@31. I'd never shot that light other than a couple of shots for fun...much less hunted with that light a draw weight. I hadn't hunted with it because I hadn't taken the time to get arrows matched to it, and wasn't comfortable half-a-ing it. I know that's the word on the street, that we bowhunters don't have to worry about stuff like that...but I do.
This year was going to be the year. Bought the right arrows (500 spine GT, still took a 200 grain point to get them to fly perfect), tinkered and tinkered and tinkered until I was satisfied...except it was still noisier than I liked. Proceeded to cleanly miss 3 deer...they ducked the arrow every time...ARRGGGHHHH!!!!! Well...the only way you'll never miss is if you never shoot at one...that's my story and I'm sticking to it. At least I'm seeing deer.
Ok, back to the point. Pulling a measly 40.5# at best. Deer is on meth and chasing it with Red Bull. Spun like a top when I dropped the string. Hit her way far back. Had to do a redneck autopsy when I skinned her, just to see why she went down so fast. I did notice the arrow was buried up probably 18" in her, but it didn't penetrate the far side.
THIS is why it's idiotic to hunt with anything other than well tuned arrows (besides the fact that a broadhead can take a wobbly arrow way off course...they aren't like shooting field points...but you have to actually shoot broadheads to know that). I hit gut. I knew that due to the entry wound. I hit liver. I figured as much because she went down so fast. I hit lungs. Wow...good penetration for that light weight. Oh, but I'm not finished. I hit heart also...in and out. Holy crap! No wonder she went down so hard and fast!
On top of that, just a while ago while I was putting my bloody arrow away, I noticed something. The point on my Ace broadhead is bent (and these are tough heads). WHAT???? I hit the off-side shoulder, after penetrating gut, liver, lungs, and heart hard enough to bend the tip of my broadhead! Pulling 40.5#! Oh yeah, shot distance was under 20 yds...probably 16 or 17.
THAT is why bow hunters tune their gear. Based on actually shooting deer. Almost forgot...she weighed 100# on the money on my digital scale. Not the biggest, but a mature MS whitetail doe.
I have pictures if someone wants to post them. I can text them to you from my phone. I'm computer illiterate when it comes to that stuff.
Chad
Thanks, Chad! Enjoyed the story, the red neck logic, and the autopsy report.
Gotta get back together soon.
Murray
awesome tale!
thanks
:clapper:
Love the story! Congrats.
You are correct ... you lied about it being short :biglaugh:
Seriously though, enjoyed it. Congrats on the kill and recovery
HELL YA! :thumbsup: it matters to this one. congratts! on the ninja doe.
ive had dealings with those too.
Congratulations Chad! Well done sir! :campfire:
There is nothing like a good short story :bigsmyl:
The animation of mind and spirit generated by the most interesting events inspired thru the traditional world is amazing.
A tuned arrow with broadhead is the only method to be assured one's setup is absolutely on the mark.
Congratulations!
Here it is.
Congrats !
Nothing prepares you for arrow flight with broadheads except broadheads. When I got my tigersharks I could literally see the spiral they made. Once tuned - they shoot way better.
Mountain Muffler would quiet that bow right down :bigsmyl:
Touche' Steve!
Congrats Chad! now you're going to have to take a minute learn how to post pictures cuz it's easier than ever.... you are going to have to do it Chad... no if ands or buts ...need to fine-tune your posting abilities now :biglaugh:
(https://i.imgur.com/SMpsUUT.jpg)
Man alive Terry...I ain't no techy...
Notice two holes in the heart. Only thing I can figure is she stabbed herself again running?...one good thing about the arrow staying in the deer, but I believe it I hadn't hit the off-side shoulder at least the broadhead would have stuck out the far side.
Entertaining story. Congratulations on the deer. As for tuning, I do not know of any serious hunter or target archer who doesn't tune his equipment.
Congratulations
Thanks for the congratulations...honestly I was getting aggravated. Never had three shot opportunities in three days running before, much less missed all three!
Sam, you would think that would be common sense. I got lambasted (elsewhere) by a bunch of "hunters" because I spoke out about a (non-hunting) "guru" claiming we bow hunters don't have to worry about it, and most don't...we just "grip it and rip it". Basically calling us slobs. That's the reason behind the header. This same genius claims my 40.5@31 should be performing like a similar design that's 70@28 (due to my draw length)...go figure. :laughing: Seems if that were the case, a 32" 500 spine carbon with a 200 grain point would be really weak instead of flying like a dart...
Quote from: LBR on October 29, 2018, 12:13:29 AM
Thanks for the congratulations...honestly I was getting aggravated. Never had three shot opportunities in three days running before, much less missed all three!
Sam, you would think that would be common sense. I got lambasted (elsewhere) by a bunch of "hunters" because I spoke out about a (non-hunting) "guru" claiming we bow hunters don't have to worry about it, and most don't...we just "grip it and rip it". Basically calling us slobs. That's the reason behind the header. This same genius claims my 40.5@31 should be performing like a similar design that's 70@28 (due to my draw length)...go figure. :laughing: Seems if that were the case, a 32" 500 spine carbon with a 200 grain point would be really weak instead of flying like a dart...
I draw a 50 @ 28 to 32 plus, wonder what poundage he thinks I will get?
Ace, the claim is you get 10# worth of performance for every inch you pull past 28". When I first saw the claim, I asked "are you saying that a 40@32 will perform like an 80@28?". He says "In the same style/design, yes that's exactly what I'm saying." **not an exact quote, but that is the exact meaning** Not poundge, but performance. I asked "so what happens if you pull a 40@28 to just 24" and release?" No answer of course. According to his formula, you should be getting 90+# worth of performance. The reason I try to bring attention to this crap is there are people who actually believe this rot...primarily beginners who just don't know any better...but there are "experienced" archers who will back him up...even web site owners/administrators. I don't get it. :dunno:
I am ready for buffalo then I guess as per his stats. The bowyers do not know their stuff, I was told 2.5 pounds per inch of draw after marked length.
Congrats!
LBR, I have also heard of people talking just as you have mentioned. But, many speak very eloquently and vociferously about that which they do not know. Sadly, many of them believe what they say.
Ace, you are ready for elephant according to that "formula".
Thanks TGbow!
Sam, sad truth. I can almost understand those just getting started being fooled, but there are lots that should know better...at least if they have the experience they claim. Why in the world someone would rely on a source of "information" that has zero experience is beyond my comprehension.
I have a similar penetration story. Shot a young buck quartering hard away. He didn't go 40 yards, and the hit looked like a gut shot. The arrow hit several inches behind the ribs, went through the heart, and lodged so firmly in the sternum I thought I was going to break the arrow pulling it out. I might have been pulling 42# with that bow.
I've heard Dan Quillian say that increasing your draw length by 1" was like increasing draw weight by 10#, but there were conditions. His contention was that a 3# increase in draw weight was magnified by a longer stroke. I could go 5# maybe. He was prone to exaggerate to make a point. He was really big on getting the longest draw you could manage.
Have to relate another story with the same bow. I shot a 140# MO doe, and she whirled at the shot. The broadhead cut a gash on her shoulder and then embedded in the neck, dropping her. However, she was far from dead, and my followup shots were deflected by the multiflora rose she fell in. I moved in with my knife, but she wouldn't let me get close enough, and was fully aware that I was after her. I killed her by cracking her skull with my brass-headed walking cane. I may be the only person to ever kill a deer with a walking cane. I don't recommend it. Brutal, but I had to put her down.
QuoteI've heard Dan Quillian say that increasing your draw length by 1" was like increasing draw weight by 10#......... He was prone to exaggerate to make a point.
Nothing but respect for Mr. Dan, but I agree...that was a bit of an exaggeration (and I'm pretty sure he assumed we knew better), plus Mr. Dan was actually an experienced hunter. The one I referenced before tries to pass it off as the gospel truth and has only killed time.
Power stroke does make some difference, but how much? I do know that if I were gaining that much of a performance increase (supposedly shooting like a 70# bow) there's no way a 32 inch, 500 spine carbon arrow with 200 grain points would fly anywhere close to straight. B.S. doesn't trump physics.
I normally shoot arrows that are 8-9 gpp at my actual draw weight. That's going to put me at around 6 gpp (using his formula), which I'd think would be blowing up bows...especially self bows...but on the flip side, until it blows up I should be getting well over 200 fps....and noisy, shocky bows. Doesn't happen.
It's not that hard to figure it out. Use a little logic, a little common sense, a little EXPERIENCE, and you can easily determine what's fact and what's imaginary book filler.
Chad please tell me your going to eat that heart? I've always wondered about that performance increase with draw length idea. For example if you were to take two bows of the same model, one let's say 55@28 drawn to 28, and the other bow 52@29 drawn to 29, both shooting an arrow as close to the same weight and setup as tuning will allow. Which bow will shoot faster (ie perform better)? Does the extra 3lb of draw weight make up for the 1" shorter draw length? I'm guessing it wouldn't, the 1" extra draw length for the lighter bow would be faster I would think. But how much difference would there be? How much more draw weight do you need at 28" to match the performance of the lighter bow drawn it 29"? Any bowyers out there who have tried this out to test their bow designs efficiency?
Oh yeah--heart going to get cooked probably Thursday night.
I really don't know how much gain you get, on average, with an inch of draw length. I know it's not 10#. Like most everything else, I'm sure there are variables to consider.
As noted, I'd be blowing up bows and getting noisy, shocky bows with my 31" draw if it were 10#, or anywhere close...but dang I'd be getting some awesome speed (for a little while).
Better yet...if you gain 10# worth of performance for every inch drawn past 28", then conversely you should loose 10# worth of performance for every inch you are shy of 28", right?
When I presented this, along with the question "what happens to the arrow when you draw a 40@28" bow to only 24"? Does the arrow just drop to the ground?" I got crickets and then groupies monkey-piled me for daring ask their guru such a question...but as far as I know that ridiculous "information" is still in "the book".
Common sense and logic...works on some folks like sunlight and garlic on a vampire.
My experience and testing show that every inch a shooter draws past 28" will increase arrow speed between 4-8 fps depending on bow design.
That is a 50@28 compared to a 50@29. Conversely if you draw less then 28 you will be adversely effected at the same rate.
My 30.5" draw gives me a large speed advantage shooting 50 on my fingers over someone shooting 50@28.
Mike
Mike, I think that's where Dan was coming from. He had a chronograph and liked to play with it. His 10#/inch may have been an exaggeration to make the point that, all things being equal, a longer draw is better. There was a popular traditional shooter/author with a book out at the time who advocated a crouched shooting position, and that tripped Dan's trigger because the position tended to shorten draw.
Chad, re Dan's experience, more than once at shows, when some guy tried to argue a hunting point with Dan, he would ask how many deer the guy had killed with a bow? Usually it was a handful, and Dan would dismiss him by telling him to come back and talk when he had killed 60 or more... Dan was not subtle. :)
Yeah, subtlety wasn't a strong point with him--lol. I didn't know him nearly as well as you, but I did get a chance to talk with him several times. A walking archery encyclopedia. I didn't agree with him on every point, but I knew that it was more productive beating your head against a big oak than arguing with him.
No doubt you get performance benefits from a longer draw, but 10# per inch? Not even close. Like I noted before, arrow spine and bow would tell you even without a chronograph. If 40@32 was equal to 80@28, then 40@24 wouldn't propel an arrow at all and we could hunt Cape Buffalo with 40@32 or elephant with 50@32. I know a young lady who'd killed at least two deer pulling around 25@24 and both shots were around 25 yds. According to "the book" that shouldn't be enough to kill a field mouse and the arrow couldn't begin to travel 25 yds...good thing she never read it.