I started out in 1970 with a bow my dad made. From there a longbow was used I don't know who made but it's gone.
Since than I've never been without a recurve but last year I was sick and got a 45lb whip cause I needed something light.
I've since traded up weight and I really do love shooting a hybrid I guess you'd call it.
Down the road I'd like to get a traditional style longbow and try that.
Here's the thing, I don't full grip my bows, most longbows have straight grips.
Does anyone hold the bow off to one side like you should, or should I say I do/teach most other bows?
And being I prob push most in the throat area, what bows should I look to?
I'm totally satisfied with my whip and have another hybrid on order but traditional longbows intrigue me and I don't know anything about them.
Any insight would be beneficial.
Thanks
When you say a traditional style longbow do you mean an American semi-longbow (ASL) such as a Hill style longbow? These have straight handles, for the most part, and shelves that are not cut to center. My best friends love these, and I have tried to love them, but can't. In this forum, there is a discussion group going to hundreds of pages on this type of bow. The problem I have found is that I can switch back and forth between hybrid longbows and recurves, but not between ASL's and the other two. It probably is because the shelf on an ASL is not cut to center, so my arrows go off to the left. I decided I had to pick one or the other, and I picked hybrid longbows and recurves. Maybe others have had different experience?
Yes the Hill style bows are what I'm referring to. You bring up some points I hadn't considered. I switch around a bit too and I don't want anything drastically different as far as aiming.
I mainly shoot instinctive but I'll gap shoot for fun on occasion. Shooting to the side may screw me up.
Thank you
The grip will tell you how to hold it, don't try to fight it. And if you aim the arrow and not the bow, left/right alignment shouldn't be a problem. Go to YouTube and watch Jim Ploens video "Aligning the Arrow". Jim was 1968 world barebow champ and knows a thing or two about shooting and bow design.
Well, Toelke makes a D shaped bow, why not go with one of those! You already know the quality of Dan's bows!
If I understand what you are saying as to how you grip the bow, then don't get a straight grip or slight dish ASL. They should be held and shot in one general fashion, you grip them any other way and you will be disappointed in how they shoot. Maybe a locator grip ASL would work but seems to me you need to stick with the hybrid the way you are describing your particular grip. JMHO
Yes Jack I think I came to the same conclusion. I never heel a bow. Maybe it is best I stay where I'm at.
Thanks for your help guys
For the serious bowhunter, the longbow will bring him to this style or else he will discard it with a curse, and a vow never to touch it again.
John Schulz
You should heel an ASL or they won't shoot right if Its not custom made for your style.
Low wrist firm longbow grip vs high wrist recurve grip is a very different feel and change in sight picture. That said, I've shot with many people who can move between those two styles of grips and adjust quickly. YMMV.
Grip doesn't make a whole lot of difference. I'm not fisting any bow. Little of my hand comes in contact. Just the way I teach/shoot. I haven't shot these style bows since I was a kid. Not looking to change anything, especially hand position which leads to so many issues, hence the straight grip arm guard guys. That I'm not dong. Think I'm gonna stay w the hybrids.
Thank you though guys, appreciate it
Ok guys so update. I've gotten a Robertson Primal longbow. The grip isn't exactly like some longbows as it's got a little dish but I'm able to shoot it well the way I like.
Is this what your referring to as how you hold the bow
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" hold the bow off to one side like you should" That is a bit of a limiting approach. The Robertsons are fine bows, the above center dish will meld to your hand without your hand trying to tell the bow what to do. I am not sure what, 'hold the bow off to one side' is or why one should do that.
This grip on my Fred Anderson Skookum classic feels great and the bow is not a hybrid.
Quote from: pavan on June 30, 2018, 03:53:08 PM
" hold the bow off to one side like you should" That is a bit of a limiting approach. The Robertsons are fine bows, the above center dish will meld to your hand without your hand trying to tell the bow what to do. I am not sure what, 'hold the bow off to one side' is or why one should do that.
Hold off to the side refers to a natural position and less torque on a bow. I've seen Fred Bear and Byram Ferguson doing it I'm not sure if they did/do it everytime.
Kinda pushing w your thumb base maybe is the best way to describe it. Here's another way, make a stop sign w hand, drop your fingertips onto the bow back. Two fingers on or around, two are to the side. It puts your wrist/forearm to the side and even w this bow which is more of a standard grip and within brace height specs I need to arm guard.
That imo is why you shouldn't heel bow. Do what you like guys, only explaining what I do and teach.
The bottom line is the bow and the grip which worried me is no issue but it does carry a slight "locator" type grip.
The other thing that worried me was the coating. Again only my way of but a bow Imo should settle into the same place each time. You can do that with a looser grip. You don't hold the bow, you push it. This sliding in of sorts causes it to find the same spot each time since no resistance by you means it's going naturally to a point of least resistance.
It's wearing a beaver tail coating and I was afraid it'd hinder me or be too large. I'm pleasantly surprised it's no issue and I plan as of now to use this bow opening morn
Quote from: David Mitchell on June 30, 2018, 04:03:35 PM
This grip on my Fred Anderson Skookum classic feels great and the bow is not a hybrid.
The grip looks similar to this
Thought I saw Byram doing a similar grip to what I described but I can't find pic. To be honest I'm not a "celebrity" chaser. I don't care what guys do, nor do I follow any man, only trying to explain grip.
Healing the bow, using a low cross grip that contacts at the base of the thumb, to full out straight wrist and the bow in the index finger to thumb web, and planting the bow clear out on the thumb pad, (which I am not to sure about because of the lack of firm contact). I have seen people going way off the side which can cause torque with some bows. I have seen a number of guys here that went from recurves to longbows. At first they try to stick with their original straight arm/straight wrist high wrist, but then down the road a few weeks to a few months, they start melding to the bow a little here and a little there, before you know it, they are looking more like Howard Hill. Not trying be critical in any way, I just was a bit confused by the terminology. Having experience with a number of Robertson longbows, you can tell when you are doing what the bow likes, because the bow does nothing at the release, other than make the arrow fly nice.
Healing the bow, maybe should be clarified a bit. It is not a complicated thing. Hold your hand with your thumb out, drop the bow onto your hand and close your fingers around it. You will find, unless you have tiny hands and a giant grip on your bow, that the bow settles to a natural no-torquing spot, the middle pads of your fingers will match the back of the bow. You can hold it with less pressure at full draw, a bit of pressure with the ring and middle finger, or squeeze the snot out of it until the glue lines spread and the bow will still not torque, if you are not twisting on it to begin with. Myself, I go for just a bit of squeeze at the beginning of the draw and barely have any pressure as I reach full draw, the bow stays put. I am not claiming that I am that delicate when I shoot at a flying pheasant or running rabbit, but it does not affect the bow or arrow flight. I will say that I get by with more with an ASL than I did with my Robertsons on the fast shots, but I have made some really good hunting shots with Robertsons over the years, some of which were rather unorthodox.
Pavan it's only partially about torque. It's actually an unnatural position and heeling puts your forearm in harms way. Hence the vast number of heelers that need arm guards. I always tell students wrist slap is God's way of telling you you gripping the bow wrong. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm new to longbows but shot bows 47 years now. In that time I certainly thought I knew something and realized I was doing it wrong. From back tension and proper release, (how many dead handed releases do you see ?) to grip, etc. we gotta keep our minds open. For now I see no better way and hitting myself seems silly
I can tell that you do not understand shooting an ASL Hill style. Your priorities are based on static style recurve shooting, nothing wrong with that, but saying we are wrong because we do not do things your way is also wrong.
Quote from: David Mitchell on June 30, 2018, 04:03:35 PM
This grip on my Fred Anderson Skookum classic feels great and the bow is not a hybrid.
...this is exactly what I do when working with an ASL. I could never really get consistently comfortable with the "straight" grip and the "dished" grip was much more an aggrevation to me, the "Locator" (very slight) works best for me...
Quote from: pavan on July 02, 2018, 05:54:43 PM
I can tell that you do not understand shooting an ASL Hill style. Your priorities are based on static style recurve shooting, nothing wrong with that, but saying we are wrong because we do not do things your way is also wrong.
Pavan I don't understand that. It's ok. I'm not bashing a style. If that was the only way to shoot it, it'd not work for me or my style. Like I said the arm guard thing to me seems absolutely crazy. To each his own though right. I'm not saying you personally are wrong. It's just wrong for me. If that was the only option I'd not shoot it. I was pleasantly surprised. You might be too if you ever tried it but you can do as you please. Thank you for your input though and I hope I wasn't taken incorrectly
A little off the subject, but I do not hit my arm when shooting a Robertson longbow, a recurve or my ASL longbows with a FF string. I hold bows pretty much identically to how Hill held his bows. I may catch a little after the shot string vibration on bare skin but that is about it. Leather cuff arm guards are a cool fashion statement that have a desired function. Go ahead 'get a hold' of that bow, put a nice leather armguard on, trust me, it will look good on you. You can view Hill's bow grip on this, https://vimeo.com/87160095
Bowguy, our own outstanding longbow shooter Ron LaClair shoots with a dead hand release. In the Masters of the Barebow DVD Vol. 1 he states that when he releases, "both hands do nothing." If you shot that way I would say you were in good company. This is such an individual sport. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.
Quote from: David Mitchell on July 03, 2018, 03:41:26 PM
Bowguy, our own outstanding longbow shooter Ron LaClair shoots with a dead hand release. In the Masters of the Barebow DVD Vol. 1 he states that when he releases, "both hands do nothing." If you shot that way I would say you were in good company. This is such an individual sport. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, as they say.
David I'm sure you are aware anything absolutely repeated allows accuracy. You can have bad form, repeat it consistently and still be accurate. So why than concentrate on any form? Because thing such as dead hand releases lead most to plucking string, throwing their hand out or up. There's def not proper backtension when dead handed releases are in play.
Don't believe me?? Ok so draw back the way you always do, have someone push your elbow in so you need to push back such as in proper back tension. Have the fellow move away releasing his pressure and see if you move or can dead hand? I'll tell you the answer, you'll move because your elbow was pushing back.
Now I've gone through this w compound guys too. Look at Rio Wilde. Got terrible form. Does he shoot better than most because he is repeating? Answer is yes. Should we aim for that? Pretty obvious the answer is no.
See there's prob no kids on here, way back when when we all began who showed us? Dad? Uncle Joe?
Were they archery instructors? What about the pics of Fred Bear w his thumb by his temple? Is this something we should teach? He's a great guy, great archer, great hunter. It'd be best to give someone every chance of succeeding. This starts w proper form.
The rest of us may have flaws we've perfected. Does not make it the best way
'Both hands do nothing' is not a dead release.
Quote from: pavan on July 03, 2018, 10:30:38 PM
'Both hands do nothing' is not a dead release..
It's not your hands that move you. Guys we could go on and on. Not trying to convince you. I'm def not doing things against myself either. It'd be silly. Thank you though