Last weekend I showed up to watch the very end (shoot offs) of the Western Classic- the largest marked distance 3D shoot in the world. I've lived in Redding, Ca for 5 years but this is my first time checking out the event. I saw just a few tricked out recurves (Olympic style) and I asked quite a few shooters about traditional shooters at the event. Several didn't know what a traditional archer was. Everyone except kids shot from the same place. More than half the shots were beyond 30 yards and the longest shot was 101 yards. (I wonder why they don't get more hunting trad setups :archer:. ). The shoot offs to break tie scores were all done from 88 yards. I talked to one (hunter?) there who said he loved to hunt pronghorn because you could get lots of long range shots (100 plus yards) and if you wound them, they can't hide on the prairie and you can usually get another shot. If they do get away, that's ok, there's always more that you can chase. He said it's not unusual to shoot 10 times for each antelope which he thought was great practice.
Even at a traditional only 3D shoot I went to here, we were shooting really long shots and it wasn't unusual for only 25% of the shots from our group to connect with foam. Everyone seemed fine with that and most of those trad guys I talked to didn't hunt because they didn't feel like they were consistent enough. Sorry for the rant but my question is: Are there any 3-D shoots north of San Fransisco that are set up for reasonable hunting distances (less than 30 yards) for traditional archers?
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Here they are shooting to break ties at 88 yards. Even with super-fast confound setups, it would take more than a second for the arrows to hit. Pretty impressive but a very different and foreign kind of archery. These guys were shooting distances that I would shoot a rifle with iron sights.
If you zoom up on the picture, you can just make out the dot placed over one of the fighting bull's guts that they were shooting at :knothead:
I wish I had an answer for you, I moved back here in 2000 and found the same thing. I've quit going due to lack of reasonable shots. And yes the orange dot over the guts is ridiculous. There are a couple good ones. Roseville has a good one in november. There is a good one in Petaluma in September and actually there use to be a good one in paradise in July, not trad only but unmarked and decent ranges. I would love to go to more as well.
There's not a big group of trad shooters in Northern California. I would guess less than 50 who I see regularly at 3D tournaments, and an unknown number who shoot in their backyards and may or may not hunt without ever shooting in tournaments. Besides the tournaments mentioned, there is a great trad only tournament in the foothills near Fresno in November. Lodi Bowmen occasionally puts on a trad only tournament. There is a trad only tournament in Pacifica, near San Francisco, that I would like to attend but haven't gotten around to yet. There are mixed trad/compound tournaments with separate trad shooting stakes at my club in El Dorado Hills, Davis, Nevada County, Spenceville, Cougar Mountain, West Point, Mt Diablo, Briones, and probably others I have missed. I won't shoot at a shoot where there are no trad stakes that are at a maximum of 50 yards. Not many trad shooters are interested in shooting at the big Redding shoot because we don't like waiting 30 minutes or so between shots.
The answer is to join the club and put in more than your fair share of the work. Maybe then they will allow you to put in traditional stakes that are more to your liking. Clubs always need help and providing it is the fastest way to get things done. If they don't move on.
The Bill Sullivan is a Trad shoot that Yahi Bowman put on every year. It's a very good shoot. The range is at Modesto Reservoir and they have it every year. May 20th this year. San Francisco Archers Pacifica is another Trad shoot that is very good. As said before, Maya in Roseville is another good one.
I would sign up for the elk gut shoot and send one over the backstop into the chevy.
You said you talked to one hunter who hunts antelope......as you described what he said, I would not consider him a hunter. In fact, he should be banned from our sport. His unethical behavior is totally unacceptable!!!! I cannot believe that wounding an animal is NO BIG DEAL to him, because to me, it's one of the worst feelings in the world.
Plenty of us in SoCal...
I live a stones throw from rmsgear, we have a thriving trad bow community because of it and we still only have a handful of competitors show up at the local archery ranges tournaments. Some of the slightly more distant clubs have a better showing butt I think trad guys just don't compete much!
Quote from: beachbowhunter on May 11, 2018, 05:50:57 PM
Plenty of us in SoCal...
Yes, that's my perception too. Not sure why, because the terrain and weather in NoCal seem much more amenable to trad shooting to me, but even in Howard Hill's days, most of the CA trad activity seemed to be down south. Wonder why that is?
there are not a lot of real traditional bowhunters anywhere. There are areas that are better for sure.
I know hundreds - maybe thousands of traditional bowhunters and I do not know a single one that shoots 3D.
This thread opener and the following picture have NOTHING to do with traditional bowhunting
Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I moved from Colorado where the club I was in had more trad than compound shooters and nearly everyone who shot trad hunted with trad. Just a different mindset here I guess.
A few of us from Reno go over to shoots in CA. There are a few stikbow shooters but the open terrain here often make folks choose compounds. The open terrain and dry conditions-archery season here is hot=90 degree days reaching to 100 and corn flake walking. Still there are guys successful year after year.
Quote from: Doug Treat on May 10, 2018, 12:09:12 PM
Last weekend I showed up to watch the very end (shoot offs) of the Western Classic- the largest marked distance 3D shoot in the world. I've lived in Redding, Ca for 5 years but this is my first time checking out the event. I saw just a few tricked out recurves (Olympic style) and I asked quite a few shooters about traditional shooters at the event. Several didn't know what a traditional archer was. Everyone except kids shot from the same place. More than half the shots were beyond 30 yards and the longest shot was 101 yards. (I wonder why they don't get more hunting trad setups :archer:. ). The shoot offs to break tie scores were all done from 88 yards. I talked to one (hunter?) there who said he loved to hunt pronghorn because you could get lots of long range shots (100 plus yards) and if you wound them, they can't hide on the prairie and you can usually get another shot. If they do get away, that's ok, there's always more that you can chase. He said it's not unusual to shoot 10 times for each antelope which he thought was great practice.
Even at a traditional only 3D shoot I went to here, we were shooting really long shots and it wasn't unusual for only 25% of the shots from our group to connect with foam. Everyone seemed fine with that and most of those trad guys I talked to didn't hunt because they didn't feel like they were consistent enough. Sorry for the rant but my question is: Are there any 3-D shoots north of San Fransisco that are set up for reasonable hunting distances (less than 30 yards) for traditional archers?
That antelope "hunter" sounds like a real douchebag. The kind of guy that makes bow hunters look terrible. I deal with some of that here in TX where the many rifle hunters hate bow hunters because we "always just wound the game and let it run away to suffer."
Guys like that are WHY there's that misconception. Shooting 10 times before hitting one and even if you get a bad shot, it's no big deal?? I'm pretty sure that's not how they hunt. When I was antelope hunting in WY, we made ground blinds and took 20-30yd shots.
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I can highly recommend the Chamberlin Ranch Trad Shoot each year in April. We had 430 shooters and vendors last month with a handful coming from Oregon and other western states. They have a website and flyer to check.......
There is a bunch of us in Central and SoCal. I dont do shoots or anything, but know guys that do...and they are always talking about 1 or 2 guys showing up with trad gear, then eventually more show up, then all of a sudden lots of compound guys are buying trad gear and converting. Lots of guys shoot both. Then, they setup a 3d course for trad, and it goes from there.
I have seen the grumbelings from compound guys when trad guys show up, but most times it all works out and the 2 groups join together and have great fun....and thats what its all about.
Mark
I have wheel shooters say trad guys are always looking for arrows, but they spend an inordinate time glassing, ranging, setting sights and then finally shooting. Some then looking for arrows waaay beyond the butts. I just go along to get along. Those who have never shot any kind of stikbow are sometimes amazed at the speed and accuracy those bows generate. Still, the terrain lends itself to longer shots-in general.
While I'm not a native Californian I live in Marin County now (just north of SF). Most of the really intelligent, handsome, and humble trad bowhunters that I know live here. Of course, I'm the only one I know who lives here. :goldtooth:
:biglaugh:HA! John, you're too much.
I can speculate that it's the result of our pitiful herds & oddball early seasons for most public land. My local area has a success rate at about 5%. After all, if you're lucky enough to see a legal buck before the rut, what are the odds that it's within trad distances? The logical choice is to use a compound to eek out a little more range and then grab a rifle as soon as the season allows.
But all that is mostly just speculation. People often don't make logical choices (like me, for example). And I suspect that a lot of Californians just like all the techy gear -- possibly more than the hunt. The way I've heard some people talk makes me think that they use the hunt to show how good a shot they are rather than use the bow to show how good a hunter they are.
The shoot McDave mentioned near Fresno is trad only & organized by Fresno Field Archers. But the stakes are still mostly set for 25+ yards, which is beyond where I allow myself to shoot for hunting. Smaller targets are in closer but anything deer-sized or larger was out at 30 or more. It is what it is. It's fun to test but I don't see it as hunting practice. They have some pop-ups and a running pig to hit. Again, it's not that I would take those shots in real life but an excuse to have some fun.
Quote from: YosemiteSam on May 14, 2018, 02:05:36 PM
The shoot McDave mentioned near Fresno is trad only & organized by Fresno Field Archers. But the stakes are still mostly set for 25+ yards, which is beyond where I allow myself to shoot for hunting. Smaller targets are in closer but anything deer-sized or larger was out at 30 or more. It is what it is. It's fun to test but I don't see it as hunting practice. They have some pop-ups and a running pig to hit. Again, it's not that I would take those shots in real life but an excuse to have some fun.
I've often thought it would be fun to have some trad stakes set up at closer distances, with points only if you hit within the kill zone, and negative points if you hit the animal outside the kill zone. Zero points for a clean miss. Of course, it's not worth setting up the stakes if not enough people sign up for it, which I suspect is why they have no trad stakes at all at Redding.
I love that idea -- especially the negative points for bad shots. I think that would help promote the ethic of passing up shots that are less certain. Add in different field positions (seated on the ground, kneeling, full prone, reaching, horizontal bow, etc.) and I think you'd have an awesome prep course for hunting-related shots. Maybe add "the sleepy hunter" shot -- from a sleeping pad or hammock? A log straddle?
Here in SE Wisconsin, there are 18 archery clubs within 75 minutes of my home. All conduct shoots that are "open to the public." Trad shooters are OVER-represented at these events. (I'm guessing that 30-40% of shoot attendees are trad at those shoots allowing both compounds and trad equipment. Some shoots are "trad only." Imagine that!
Mark
McDave and others: I spent a year living in the great state of texas and can attest to the fact that the best trad shooters I ever saw were from Oklahoma. The reason being is that the type of traditional shoot you describe and wish for is the norm in Oklahoma. At their shoots they will bring in brush, rocks, tree branches, etc if need be to make sure that he archer is having to shoot through a small hole to get to the target. And of course their distances are all trad distances with the longest being 35 yards. what has destroyed 3D shoots in California (yes, I am a ca. native for 55 yrs) is NFAA and its local suck up organization CBH that lobbies for all shoots to be NFAA sactioned. At OK shoots you actually have to shoot the target like they require, kneeling, on your stomach, facing away from the target, etc. Their shoots are a real test to the type of shooting most trad hunters and stump shooter regularly test themselves with in the field. When Oklahomans come into texas to a major trad shoot they normally take the top three places due to this type of discipline.
I lived in So. CA. and yes there are a lot more than I shoot with now in AZ. For the triple Crown put on by AAE we had 21 Trad shooters the first day. Second day it dropped to 11.
Quote from: Raminshooter on May 19, 2018, 12:26:54 PM
McDave and others: I spent a year living in the great state of texas and can attest to the fact that the best trad shooters I ever saw were from Oklahoma. The reason being is that the type of traditional shoot you describe and wish for is the norm in Oklahoma. At their shoots they will bring in brush, rocks, tree branches, etc if need be to make sure that he archer is having to shoot through a small hole to get to the target. And of course their distances are all trad distances with the longest being 35 yards. what has destroyed 3D shoots in California (yes, I am a ca. native for 55 yrs) is NFAA and its local suck up organization CBH that lobbies for all shoots to be NFAA sactioned. At OK shoots you actually have to shoot the target like they require, kneeling, on your stomach, facing away from the target, etc. Their shoots are a real test to the type of shooting most trad hunters and stump shooter regularly test themselves with in the field. When Oklahomans come into texas to a major trad shoot they normally take the top three places due to this type of discipline.
So CA shooters are status hungry -- looking for sanctioned approval of their events? Could also be insurance-related. An unsanctioned event might be uninsurable in our liability-conscious culture. Just guessing though.
Quote from: YosemiteSam on May 21, 2018, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: Raminshooter on May 19, 2018, 12:26:54 PM
McDave and others: I spent a year living in the great state of texas and can attest to the fact that the best trad shooters I ever saw were from Oklahoma. The reason being is that the type of traditional shoot you describe and wish for is the norm in Oklahoma. At their shoots they will bring in brush, rocks, tree branches, etc if need be to make sure that he archer is having to shoot through a small hole to get to the target. And of course their distances are all trad distances with the longest being 35 yards. what has destroyed 3D shoots in California (yes, I am a ca. native for 55 yrs) is NFAA and its local suck up organization CBH that lobbies for all shoots to be NFAA sactioned. At OK shoots you actually have to shoot the target like they require, kneeling, on your stomach, facing away from the target, etc. Their shoots are a real test to the type of shooting most trad hunters and stump shooter regularly test themselves with in the field. When Oklahomans come into texas to a major trad shoot they normally take the top three places due to this type of discipline.
So CA shooters are status hungry -- looking for sanctioned approval of their events? Could also be insurance-related. An unsanctioned event might be uninsurable in our liability-conscious culture. Just guessing though.
I don't think CA trad shooters are status hungry, or that insurance is an issue. I think we have just been the poor stepchildren of the compounders. We get a LOT of 50 yard shots at mixed events, since that is our default shot if the compound shot is more than 50 yards. We NEVER get shots that really show off the advantages of a trad bow. Even at trad only shoots, like Petaluma, Maya, and Fresno, we're still standing upright, only at longesh trad distances. I really think that if trad shoots required shooters to take terrain into account, they would learn to appreciate the advantages of the trad bow. I also think they would begin to like it for its own sake, and not just because we're trying to hold onto a tradition from the past. Also, I think they would have a lot more fun.
Recently, I was invited by my grandkids to a memorial shoot with the Siskiyou Bowmen between Yreka and Montague. It was an informal affair: family oriented, with three different 3-D ranges branching out into some diverse terrain. Most shooters had compounds, we were the only group sporting long bows, but I did see a couple of recurves. Very friendly atmosphere, and since there was no formal scoring, we could adjust yardages to fit our capabilities, and change angles to present more difficult shooting windows & positions. There was a separate novelty shoot at a Sasquatch at rediculous range we passed on.. Even had a running boar setup. The kids liked the dinosaur targets. Many of the setups were in rocky terrain that provided appropriate negative reinforcement for unreasonable range shots.
Changed my mind after reading about lions on another place—-it is fear of lions. Since California is about 4 air miles from here, we see lots of deer migrate thru here, with big cats in tow. Longbowmen fear mountain lions. :biglaugh:
Unfortunately, nuttin' we can do about that in California. Hopefully, you can take care of that problem for us when they stray into Nevada?
And all of those problems spewing out of Sacramento, and many others, are what has turned me into a political refugee. Idaho, here I come.