Guys,
Looking for some advice for a shelter and sleeping bag temp range for alpine mule deer hunting. I'm hopefully going to WY this year. It will be Sept 15th maybe the week before if they let bowhunting early. I know you can get swings in the weather but I've never hunted out west earlier then Oct in Montana and not near as high.
Looking at a ultra lite 1 man tent or an OR bivy. Thinking for the bag a 850 down 20 degree. I have 6 points and 82% chance of pulling my hunt area.
Experts please chime in. :coffee:
OR Bivy 2 lbs
[attachment=1,msg2796182]
1 man tent 2 lbs 7 oz
[attachment=2,msg2796182]
Looks like it will be an adventure! Best of luck to you! Will be following this thread. I want to do a solo camping/hunting trip soon and looking for advice as well!
I'm 6'5" and what used to be called "husky". I have used bivies and solo tents in my younger days and have concluded that they are all terrible! They are ok for a few hours sleep but to get comfortable all night they just dont work well. Heaven forbid you get weathered in for 10 or 12 hours... they will make you insane.
I have gone to a 2-person tent with a vestibule ( if a second person was gonna be in there with me we better be married or in a severe survival situation). The one I have is made by Mountainsmith. It can be pitched with or without the fly or just pitched with the ground cloth and the fly for UL use. I love the vestibule for keeping gear dry or for when the weather is bad and I need to cook under it. Yes weighs more... but it's worth it. The model I have (and is pictured below) is rated three season. I've been out down into the 20°s and have had zero condensation inside the tent.
As a gentleman of somewhat expansive proportions I have a hard time sleeping in a mummy bag. I have a lightweight fleece sack I pull over my Thermareast and just use my sleeping bag like a quilt. There are also several down quilts on the backpacking market designed to do just what I use my bag for. No zips or snaps and ultra light weight. I also carry a cat cut hammock tarp in my pack when I'm away from camp. This is handy for extra gear storage under or stringing up in bad weather so I can still sit on the hill and glass without getting soaked, windblown or snow covered. Its also very light weight and I can use it in a quick pitch situation if I need to.
Check out Brady Miller's article on his highcountry hunting gear at gohunt.com. He talks about the new quilts and how to use them. It's a pretty good read.
My though is that I can save weight in other gear but my sleep system has gotta be comfortable!
OkKeith
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Here is a link to the article...
https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/brady-miller-2017-late-season-backcountry-gear-list#gs.UtArN6k
OkKeith
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Another good article on highcountry backpack hunting gear...
https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/the-backcountry-hunting-gear-list-breakdown-revisited-for-2017#gs.xSdBhNk
OkKeith
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OkKeith
Thanks for the info. Looks like that shelter comes in at about 4 lbs not to bad. I'm going to think hard about what you said. I like the idea of head room and I'd getting weathered in some room to move.
Going to read the articles.
Thanks again
You bet Chad...
That tent is nice because you can sit up to pull on socks and boots. You don't have to get dressed laying down if the weather is bad.
I just spent 5 days in it on a sand hills and sagebrush country turkey hunt in the Oklahoma Panhandle. We got some rainy and 30° weather for a day or two (it hadnt rained out there in 6 months, figures) and it worked great. I have a small alcohol stove and cup I keep in the tent. I can start water boiling for instant oatmeal and coffee in the vestibule while I pull on clothes and foot gear. I hang a solar powered Lucie Light in the tent so I can see. No batteries so it saves some weight there.
In one article Miller talks about his no stove/no cook food system. I don't think I could eat protein bars and drink shakes for a week straight. Of course I'm no where near the body conditioning he is in.
Below is a few photos of some of the country we hunted. Had a great time!
OkKeith (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/3ce42dde1c3c264cd535726953244572.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/0f7442076465a0fd1656ccbe1739471b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180508/b177cd18ab1acffc7e1f30768b928dd9.jpg)
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Chad , I've been through them all and the bivy is just alright IF the weather cooperates, which it seldom does! I've tried about everything light weight that I can find and used them both when I lived and hunted in Montana and here in Alaska, I finally settled only a Go Light tipi style tent, they have plenty of room for one guy and gear, they take the wind and you can sit up and move around in them if you get weathered in. Bivys are pretty miserable if you hit really bad weather! The tipi style generally doesn't have a floor so if you knock over your coffee or whatever you are not swimming in it the liquid just goes into the ground. My son and I used my Go Light last year on an Alaskan mountain goat and we rode out some fairly bad weather and some spilled drinks in fine shape! good Luck on your adventure!
Badger,
I looked at the tipi tents just now and really like the look of them. Very fitting to the surroundings!
This is a 2 person version (ie 1 man and gear) and comes in at 2 lbs 10 oz with no nest. Full nest adds 2.18 lbs.
I can see where no floor is a plus. It uses ground stakes how are they getting around that issues with the rocks??
Free standing would be a big plus but they are showing it not be an issue......
Silvertip
2 lbs 10 oz
About 5 lbs with full nest
[attachment=1,msg2796265]
I would be worried about rain, especially if the wind is blowing. I would go with something like the shelters in some of these other picks. It probably comes down to what you can reasonably carry on your back. We will all be looking forward to the story.
It's not that difficult to come up with appropriate gear and the key to selecting is, as Sam alluded to, weather. I'm not sure what elevations you consider Alpine but I'm guessing you will be at 9 to 11. After quite a few years of hunting, fishing and playing in the Rockies I'll tell you unequivocally that anything can happen weather wise. Absolutely anything!
Pick a shelter that will handle high winds and repel rain over a long term. The 20* bag is probably going to be adequate but it's those unlikely but possible situations that you need to be ready for.
Quote from: monterey on May 08, 2018, 09:18:43 AM
It's not that difficult to come up with appropriate gear and the key to selecting is, as Sam alluded to, weather. I'm not sure what elevations you consider Alpine but I'm guessing you will be at 9 to 11. After quite a few years of hunting, fishing and playing in the Rockies I'll tell you unequivocally that anything can happen weather wise. Absolutely anything!
Pick a shelter that will handle high winds and repel rain over a long term. The 20* bag is probably going to be adequate but it's those unlikely but possible situations that you need to be ready for.
Peaks are 8500-9700 where I am thinking of going. Plenty high for some insane temp drops in a storm for sure. Leaning towards a 20 degree water proof bag and a sub 2.5lbs shelter. They have some wicked ones out there is you want to spend $800 for a tent.
Well I'm not an expert...but I'll chime in. I've used all the options you mention above timberline and for an early season mule deer hunt I'd hand's down pick a single man, freestanding tent.
The bivi wouldn't even be a consideration for me, I'd gladly carry the extra 7 oz to not be stuck inside one of those for 24 hrs through a rain storm again. And trying to rig a tarp over it in a way that it won't get blown into the next county in a wind storm is difficult.
I used a tipi last year on my mountain goat hunt and while it worked great for the situation, it probably wouldn't be my choice on an early season above timberline hunt. I was hunting later in the season and knew I was going to be faced with cold, rainy, snowy weather and having a stove to dry out drove my decision. There are some draw backs that would edge it out for me on your hunt. 1. The nest adds too much weight and without a nest, condensation will be an issue (I know there are ways to manage it, but it will be an issue). 2. It is very dependent on stakes for a good set up and to be able to handle high winds. That can be an issue above timberline. 3. Even with adequate staking I don't think it handles wind as well as a low profile single man tent, at least not without a lot of flap and noise. I'm not trying to knock Tipis, I like them and think they have there place, this just wouldn't be it for me. I'm sure others will disagree.
I think your sleeping bag choice is spot on.
Freestanding tent above timberline on an early season mule deer hunt in CO
(https://i.imgur.com/niHjJFH.jpg)
Tipi above timberline on mid season goat hunt
(https://i.imgur.com/J5Z0hzf.jpg)
Everyone has already said it, but I'll just add a vote...I've spent a lot of nights in bivy sacks below and above treeline here in MT and they're fine on shorter trips where you can get a generally reliable forecast (and short enough to ride out any surprises!), but they're miserable to spend time in bad weather. I would recommend a tipi or light tent as mentioned. Also, if you're careful with your setup and gear I never see the need for a waterproof sleeping bag like the kind with a goretex outer fabric. They're more expensive and heavier. 20 degree bag should be fine, you'll have insulating layers of clothing I'm guessing that can be worn inside if it really dips down in temperature. Occasionally I'll use the bivy sack/tarp combo which protects the sleeping bag from moisture but still not a great choice for bad, blowing weather, especially if you're on a scheduled trip where you'll be going XX dates and can't change plans easily depending on the weather.
Chad, Check out the Kifaru Tut and Sawtooth. Both are perfect for what you have planned.
Mike
My experience and knowledge of DarkTimber's experience tells me you should really consider his advice.
One of my backpack hunting Buddies has a tipi set up with the stove. My thought has always been that what he gains in weight reduction with the tipi he more than looses with the stove. It is a great set up for certain conditions for sure... but as mentioned it is very tent stake intensive. Without the stove it can be drafty even with the nest addition.
Are you planning to set up one camp and hunt out of it every day or move camp frequently? I think this would inform your choice as well. You can "make do" with just about any quality backpack tent. Cost, construction and even how often you will use it back home are things to think about.
Let us know what ya get. I'm looking forward to hearing the story of your hunt!
OkKeith
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My opinion, coming from 5 trips to CO at 11-12k feet....2 man tent with vestibule, 0-15 deg bag, good pad. I would suffer the weight of a tent and good sleeping pad knowing I could keep dry, get warm and good sleep. Never know about the weather up high. Forgot my sleeping pad one year....never again, haha.
Quote from: BlackDog on May 08, 2018, 10:10:18 PM
My opinion, coming from 5 trips to CO at 11-12k feet....2 man tent with vestibule, 0-15 deg bag, good pad. I would suffer the weight of a tent and good sleeping pad knowing I could keep dry, get warm and good sleep. Never know about the weather up high. Forgot my sleeping pad one year....never again, haha.
Well said.
My son and I slept on a a glacier one night sheep hunting a few years ago, we just put rocks around the bottom of the tipi. We found some ground the next night! You usually aways can find somewhere to pitch a tipi even goat and sheep hunting, like I said rocks work too unless it get real windy. I've used free standing tents and they are nice but I prefer the tipi and the no floor option myself. I have a bug nest for mine but only use it when the bugs can be a problem. If you are going to hunt the high country of Wyoming in September I don't think bugs will be a problem. One note, if you do use rocks be careful they can abrade small holes in the tent.
Chad, another note, you can use rocks but instead of putting them directly on the tent you tie cord through the stake loops and then tie them to rocks, the bigger the better, to a point. I really like the tipi set up for high mountain hunting, especial if it's windy, they can take a lot of wind!
I have tried the bivy, tipi, one man, and utralite 2 man. The 2 man works the best for me. I have also gotten fond of the thick BA air pads. I can sleep on them and not wake up sore in the various damaged joints I live with. They weigh 16 oz. It just takes more time to roll them up when you move. I have an expo pack. It all [tent, bag, pad] fits on the frame behind the pack bag, makes for a compact load.
MAP
MAP... BA air pads? My biggest problem is hip pointers. I usually have to switch the side I'm sleeping on every 2 hours or so the first night. Every 30 minutes by the third or fourth it seems like. I have a full length 3 inch Thermarest but sometimes it just doesn't cut it.
OkKeith
OK: I found the Big Agnes Q core slx three years ago. They are an insulated air mattress. I had the same problem you spoke of. Now what wakes me up is the alarm. They are 4 inches thick and spread the pressure so there is no pain. You may find as I did the the wider one is better that way your arms are supported too. They let me stay out as long as the food lasts. My wife likes hers too. We often camp together out of state. I find electro lites to be very important in reducing fatigue and cramps. The air pad and electro lites have greatly improved my extended trips.
MAP
Thanks MAP!
I took a look at those. Look great and only a little pricey. Weight isn't to bad. I have a weak mind and a strong back (when I sleep well) so I don't mind a little weight.
Do you put a fleece cover over your pad or are they fairly non-slip? I always have trouble staying on a slippery pad.
OkKeith
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When I lived in CO my Sept hike in 'base camp' was at 9800'. I tried a fancy hammock, bivy, and one man single wall tent to save weight. I settled on a 2 man tent and a Big Agnes Lost Ranger (down fill) sleeping bag with insulated pad was the best solution for me. Probably would have gone with a Kifaru tipi if I had stayed.
I have a spray can of sticky stuff I got at REI years ago. I think it was made by Thermarest. A little bit of it helps with that problem. I use big bands to keep a pair of them tite, so you don't fall in the crack between.
MAP
alpine area or anywhere the winds can really blow have a sawtooth. it just naturally bucks the wind as it was designed to do. best shelter i'Ve ever owned for the purpose that your intending to use it for. my entire sleep system is around 7.5-8 pounds 9.5-10 pounds if i take my kifaru stove
Kifaru sawtooth
two pieces of tyvek one to sleep on the other is in kill kit
big agnes Q core R5 reg wide
EE quilt
primo setup
I have used a bivy........and won't do it again. Many good options mentioned already, would love to that kind of a hunt.
Thanks MAP... i will look in to the sticky stuff.
Shawn- If you don't mind... tell me about your quilt. I have been unzipping SBs and using them in the same manner for many years. What is the construction like? How is it better than a SB? Does it have some sort of a foot box? I have been interested in these since seeing something similar for use in my camping hammock.
Thanks,
OkKeith
Quote from: Chad Orde on May 08, 2018, 08:18:57 AM
Badger,
I looked at the tipi tents just now and really like the look of them. Very fitting to the surroundings!
This is a 2 person version (ie 1 man and gear) and comes in at 2 lbs 10 oz with no nest. Full nest adds 2.18 lbs.
I can see where no floor is a plus. It uses ground stakes how are they getting around that issues with the rocks??
Free standing would be a big plus but they are showing it not be an issue......
Silvertip
2 lbs 10 oz
About 5 lbs with full nest
[attachment=1,msg2796265]
This is exactly what I was going to suggest only I would eliminate the nest,you wont neet it in October.Trade that weight for a small T I wood stove to dry out.You can get a one man nest from Bear Paw Wilderness designs that weighs about 16 oz. for earlier more buggy seasons
Quote from: OkKeith on May 12, 2018, 10:26:59 AM
Thanks MAP... i will look in to the sticky stuff.
Shawn- If you don't mind... tell me about your quilt. I have been unzipping SBs and using them in the same manner for many years. What is the construction like? How is it better than a SB? Does it have some sort of a foot box? I have been interested in these since seeing something similar for use in my camping hammock.
Thanks,
OkKeith
I'm not Shawn but I have an Enlightened Equipment quilt as well. It does have a foot box, you can get one with a permanent sewn footbox, or like mine, with snaps to where you can open it up completely flat like a comforter. It has a draw string closure when you snap it to completely close it off, or you can vent it if need be. Mine is a 20 degree long/wide and weighs 22oz. Very hard to find a bag that weighs anywhere close to that that is comparable in price. Mine right now is paired up with a Klymit Static V Luxe pad that is 30" wide and 76" long and 3" thick. R value of 4.4. Makes for a comfy setup. Pad is definitely heavier than my Xtherm pads, but the width is so nice with the quilt.
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My recommendation on a shelter: must be able to handle high winds if you're going to Wyoming's high country. I live in N Utah but cover Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho for work. I have a couple of BA Copper Spur tents, the 2 man is less than 3lbs, the 3 man is less than 4lbs. I still regret selling my Hilleberg Soulo though. 5lbs but absolutely bomb proof in bad weather. I also have a SeekOutside LBO base/vestibule setup with a stove jack. I can use just the base open ended to glass out of or sleep in in good weather, with a vestibule in bad weather, add another base to make it roomier, or a connecting tarp and base to sleep up to 6 people. Versatile setup for sure. Lots of good options out there, just make sure you get something with stout poles. A lot of the lightweight tents get blown flat in high winds above treeline. A little more weight in your sleep system is well worth it for a good night's sleep.
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Quote from: OkKeith on May 12, 2018, 10:26:59 AM
Thanks MAP... i will look in to the sticky stuff.
Shawn- If you don't mind... tell me about your quilt. I have been unzipping SBs and using them in the same manner for many years. What is the construction like? How is it better than a SB? Does it have some sort of a foot box? I have been interested in these since seeing something similar for use in my camping hammock.
Thanks,
OkKeith
Im a tosser and a turner so I started using a quilt and havent looked back since. I wish I would've had this years ago. I use the elightened equipment quilt system and its awesome. Its basically a quilt with a 12 inch zipper for a toe box if you need it and has a draw string bungie cord in it to cinch it up if you need any more warmth. They are ultra lightweigh and keep you plenty warm. The upper half of the quilt secures itself to the elastic bands that go around you pad. the quilt doesnt slide around or move.
lay down tyvek sheet for moisture barrier
sleeping pad with down and straps on the 4 inch pad
then quilt on top of pad
youll will get some sleep I promise