I done this first so as not to tiller a bow then ruin it shaping a handle and riser. This is a 12 inch riser. I tapered the belly side of riser from end of handle to limb. Then cut out handle and fade area, marked 5/8 down side of limb on into handle area, remarked the lines from handle down riser into belly side of limbs. Then proceeded to remove the wood in between. Seems to look right.
(https://i.imgur.com/NKgnqm6l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iltqcCal.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ANJrLH0l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rkJrBghl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UhErqApl.jpg)
Never done that with a chisel but it looks about right. You could bring the side tapers out to where the belly taper ends but it's not necessary, it's not gonna bend there anyway.
Where is Richmond county anyway?
5 minutes all four sides with a chisel hand tools make me happy, power tools make me money. Richmond county is on the SC border about the middle of the state. Think I'm 2 hours or so east of you. 18 miles from Rockingham
Your talking about the fade taper right?
Remove the pencil area right. I like that better sight window is more open.
(https://i.imgur.com/lzboadwl.jpg)
Thanks Pat, I like this. Sight window is wide open and its even more graceful.
(https://i.imgur.com/U8KBN50l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/in668hhl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/16YM8Xel.jpg)
Not bad.
any more tweaks needed?
Yeah, get tillering. :D
Got one limb scraped down to 5/8.
How's it bending?
The one I scraped will bend a little, I didn't cut the limb profile yet. I decided to do it this way as it seems to be easier as far as getting the limb scraped perfectly flat length and width wise. The limb taper are easy so when they are done I'm already at 5/8ths thick not much more tillering left.
Ok guys got both limbs scraped down to a workable thickness 11/16 at the fades 5/8ths at the tips. Going to cut the side tapers now then see how she bends should be pretty stiff I'm shooting for #45-#50 range. The good thing about using the same wood species and style of bow I'm finding is its starting to be more predictable.
New question since I'm experimenting might as well go for broke right so I'm thinking tip overlays and heat treatment. Ive been following and reading Mr. St louis on the heat treating. When do you guys add tip overlays? And how do you get them feathered in without sanding into the back of bow? Ive read a lil here and there, finish them first were it meets the back then glue them on? Nothing fancy just oak to try my hand at it.
I leave the tips wide(3/4" - 1") until after first brace to see how the string tracks. If everything is OK I will shape the tips and add overlays. If not, a little wood can be removed from one side or the other to help line the string down the bow. The bow has to be under tension(braced) before you can tell how the string tracks. I do the same with the handle area. This can eliminate heat bending or straightening sometimes.
For heat treating, anytime after first brace. If, while tillering you notice she's taking some set, you can heat treat again. Sometimes I'll do this as the last step before shooting in and adding the finish.
Make your tip overlays already feathered to a thin edge on the end pointing towards the riser, before gluing them on the bow.
(http://i.imgur.com/LzdV1Nb.jpg)
Gotcha Roy.
Nice and stream lined I like it. Went parallel for 8 instead of 6 inches.
(https://i.imgur.com/eLdyk0Yl.jpg)
I guess it's ok... :)
Yea it aint as sexy as a drunk cowgirl at closing time but it will do.
As far as bending goes cant take pics of that. Its stiff as starched under shorts still but it bends even or were it should. It doesn't bend all in one spot say at the fade or only in the middle the last 3rd don't bend much but I figured that. Hope that makes sense.
Very nice John I like the Sudbury handle look it has a sexy profile !
Well guys she is my first blow up. It was going very well. I decided to go a lil heavy would have ended up 55+ when finished. Made a longbow stringer but one end was well back from the tip so it wouldn't hinder sliding the string up and while pulling it up POW she split faster than ya buddies when the police show up. Also right at the ends of the glued on riser I could see dark spots where the oil had seeped in. So the glue up was compromised some how in this area. I'm thinking I got to close with the heat gun when treating the back. Which I didn't apply much heat it didn't even change color much. While heat treating I put a one inch block under the handle area and clamped the tips down to remove the set while I was at it. It was only 3/4 of an inch of set maybe that stress while heating was my down fall I don't know. I also may not have turned the heat in the shop up enough while the riser glue up was curing?
However there was some spooky looking discoloration in the handle area it was a small area but two different colors in red oak isn't good. With anything else I could have just hid it but now I know it cant handle stress. It was in the exact area were one end of the split is. So I don't know which or which ones of these could have caused this poor creatures horrific and tragic death But whatever it was I should have known better so we learned a few things.
1. Always check temperatures when doing glue ups over night = DUUHH
2. Never use a longbow stinger until ya ask a pro how to use it proper like = DUUHH
3. Never get a heat gun close to tb2 glued joint = DUHH
4. When a nice looking board starts showing signs of potential issues with structural integrity when yo cut into it scrap it and move on = DUUHHH
(http://i.imgur.com/W5JPZ1Rl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/W5JPZ1R)
(http://i.imgur.com/wg4eyTYl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/wg4eyTY)
(http://i.imgur.com/NEYfztWl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/NEYfztW)
Only one thing to do now fellows, ive got a 70 inch piece of hickory out there were gona make us a bow!
Think I'm going the same layout with the hickory really liked it, start tonight.
Wakes you up when they snap, don't it?
I think ya got that backwards. Successes make you a bowyer. Explosions just keep ya humble.
I think you have the skills and know how to build some nice bows. Ya just need to sloooow down. Enjoy the build and don't be in such a hurry to get to the finish line.
Sorry about that, John. It happens, just smile and start another.
I always use a stringer that has leather cups on each end that fit over the tips.
I broke my first 8 bows... I was using the wrong adhesive... Did not know about EA-40 back then...
IT was very discouraging but I did not let it beat me...
Thanks Roy, glued my riser on the Hickory in the house. Going to make a new stringer tonight like you're talking about got plenty of leather.
Shredd, ive never had an issue with tight bond. I went through the things that i could blame it own but im going to call this operator eror and blame the bowyer.
Bvas, I had plenty of time just wasn't paying attention to the details so your probably right. Some one told me you couldn't be successful till ya broke a few. Maybe because the lessons we learn the hard way stick with us.
QuoteOriginally posted by skeaterbait:
Wakes you up when they snap, don't it?
"White men cant jump' oh yea we can!
Bet ya got skid marks in your bvd's too.. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
Bet ya got skid marks in your bvd's too.. :)
Nope I decided to go commando today. Camo pants so I'm good.
If you ain't breaking 'em you ain't making 'em.
Study the break and determine why? you can learn a lot from a broken bow.
I didn't put that much heat to it but after studying it the inside was sorta dry almost crumbly only in a very small section. ive seen that before working with red oak. The only thing noticeable from the out side was some slight discoloration. I'm thinking bad board but I prefer to blame myself. Keeps me sharp and humble to.
Did you have the edges rounded over well? Seemed like in the pictures they were barely rounded over.
Roy about usual on the corners, maybe I should ad that to my list.
This is how a cross section of my bows looks.
(http://i.imgur.com/uEOwxRv.png)
Mine are nowhere near that.
Yours appear to be like this.
(http://i.imgur.com/Uu5BJU1.png)
Exactly I was getting ready to post a pic.
Rasp the edges at a 45 on the blue lines, then round off the 8 edges that you get from doing that.
(http://i.imgur.com/cgFoyUp.png)
Ok gotcha, I cut this right above the break
(http://i.imgur.com/kClG9PUl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kClG9PU)
Yup, that's not good..
Hasn't been an issue so far, guess it may have become one. why do you think that is?
Stuff happens.. :)
Sooner or later it was bound to bite ya in the rear end..
All ive done to hickory is glue a riser. Ill carve on the ends and see how it works. That area will be removed when I taper it any way.
John, wood breaks along grain lines unless rotted. You can see the grain in the break. This can be a problem with sawn lumber because the grain isn't consider as a log is sawn.
Pat, are you referring to my square edges causing the break? I know its to prevent lifting a splinter then running down the grain and turning into what I had. Or are ya saying stuff happens? Was this preventable?
With wooden bows, you just never know. That's why it's best to use good wood and design them right and then hope for the best.
My 1st bow was a red oak bow. It was beautiful and shot great. On about arrow 300 it decided to explode almost in the same spot as yours. After that scare I moved more towards backed bows. I find red oak unbacked board bows don't "last" as well as others and are prone to explosion. That's just my findings.
Did you mention that you heat treated the back of the bow? I haven't done all that much heat treating but I believe that's a no no.
Kinda like getting married then?
BMorv I didn't heat much been reading about and following Marc St louis on that. He has lots of post online also wrote for the TBB. Don't think ill treat this hickory but she is going to be a beauty. Not posting anything until its done. Going to take everyone's advice then push the envelope until I figure out how far is to far. Its how I learn best. lol
Sorry to here that John, dont feel bad part of the game, but I have never had good luck with red oak boards in my area to dry & brittle you shouldnt have that issue with hickory never had a hickory stave or board out right breake, had them pull splinters but fixed and still shootable it loves heat treating ,on average a good solid heat treat will increase the bow weight about 8 lb in my exsperience, hickory makes a great bow if done right !
Yellowwood, that bow was over #55 which ive heard is pushing it for red oak. Now I know, may have been a factor? This hickory looks good so were going to go for it.
Advice, hickory absorbs moisture like a sponge. So when not working on it, store it someplace dry.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Malone:
Thanks Roy, glued my riser on the Hickory in the house. Going to make a new stringer tonight like you're talking about got plenty of leather.
Shredd, ive never had an issue with tight bond. I went through the things that i could blame it own but im going to call this operator eror and blame the bowyer.
Bvas, I had plenty of time just wasn't paying attention to the details so your probably right. Some one told me you couldn't be successful till ya broke a few. Maybe because the lessons we learn the hard way stick with us.
LOL... I was not saying that you wee using the wrong adhesive... I said that I was... Basically I am saying stick with it and don't let it get you down...
Shredd, I didn't think that. Ya never mentioned what you were using. What was it so ill know not to try it.
Roy, this one will follow me in and out of the shop to the house. I'm using kerosene in the shop so its a dry heat but its wet out side and blah blah blah so who knows ill just keep it inside. I use a humidifier in the house during winter should be good. But what do I know?
The grain running down the back isn't the only grain in a board. If the grain on the back is perfectly straight from tip to tip but the side grain runs off top to bottom the bow can break there. Trying to find a board with good grain both top and side can drive you nuts but for a durable board bow it is a necessity.
In the third pic down in the blow up post some grain runs lengthwise along the limb but the break is diagonal across the limb and that break is along that grain. You can see the lengthy wood fibers.
I gotcha Pat. Some of that stuff ive been buying was questionable but couldn't help myself. Going to put more effort into finding better wood and restraining myself. I guess you can make chicken sh#$ look like chicken salad but its still sh^&.
If you find a 6' board that has nice straight grain on half of it and crappy on the other half. You could saw two narrower boards out of the good half, then Z splice those together to get a stave.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Malone:
why do you think that is?
In my mind I see it this way,the more squared your edge the finer the point of any run offs you may have. That creates a very small point of failure, a tiny splinter. But as you experienced, the rate in which that small point increases to POW can be pretty much instantaneous.
If you round the edges more, that fine point gets wider, and if there is anything Pontiac taught us, it's "wider is better".
I understand Skeaterbait, that's a good way of explaining it.
We had a sky blue Pontiac when I was a kid with a white vinyl top man that thing was huge!
Roy, got some stuff like that laying around been pondering that. I will try when I run out of full length pieces.
John, if you are looking at Lowe's or Home Depot also consider shorter pieces. A simple "Z" oe "W" splice will join them at the handle and the riser and a thin overlay will hold them together.
Do you have a specialty lumber shop near by? Like for furniture builders, etc.? If so they usually have good quality lumber even the furniture builder might have a board or 2 to sell.
Have you tried staves?
Z splice.
(http://i.imgur.com/oXiYa4s.jpg)
Pat, no go on buying good stuff local tried many times looking for furniture grade wood. Unless I drive a couple hours. Roy mentioned z splice I'm no stranger to splices and joints so that's an option I will check into.
Staves have been on my mind as well, I was under the impression it had to be a tree at least a foot in diameter but not so. Was reading about bows from saplings. There is a guy up the road who sells fire wood I haven't talked to yet. The bug has really got me so I'm getting more motivated to find a better supply, who knows might even take a crow bar to my wallet.
Well back to the shop got a hickory board on the operating table.
Roy, ive used those for other things it wasn't until you guys starting mentioning it tht I realized it would work for bows. Ill see what I can dig up.
Most of us have broke multiple bows, as long as the splinter did not hit your face, Most breaks for me were subtle but some were extremely violent. On a good note I really think that backings help with splinters flying in your face.... :eek:
I've never had a bow break. LOL
Maybe ya haven't tried hard enough. Its not that hard to do.
Ya I know, a buddy in Richmond County NC does it a lot.. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
I've never had a bow break. LOL
You serious..? Careful what ya dont wish for.
Of course I'm serous. LOL not...
Roy are ya building them out of rubber bands, that don't count ya know.
I've lost count of broken bows. But it rarely happens anymore.
Well if ya here a loud pop from down south ya know I'm still at it.