UPDATE: Here is the completed build-a-long how-to video. Thanks for everyone that helped me on these forums!
YOUTUBE VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xljOvsexlkg&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z124cvzjaz3mzri5x04ciluoglydcbgg4mk0k)
I'm new to the forum, but have browsed in the past and wanted to make my own trad bow for several years now. I've been fairly successful with a compound in the past, but have finally made the first move in ordering woods for a hunting bow.
I ordered a 68" kit on **** with pre-tapered and floor tillered bamboo and ipe with osage handle and tip overlay blocks. The ipe is pretty dark, and the nodes on the bamboo are spread apart well. There is also minimal warp on the bamboo, which should make my life easier. I currently am in an apartment and don't have direct access to tools like a band saw, which affected my decision to order the ready-to-glue kit. Anyways, here are my goals with this bow:
-moderate R/D
-60lb at draw length (29" for compound with release, but I still need to determine for finger shooting). I'd like to start high as I can always lighten it later if needed
-Efficient (fast for the 9gpp standard, even if it costs me some noise)
-Learning experience. I hope to discover things through this bow that will help guide me if I want to make tweaks in the future (shorter length, more/less r/d, etc.)
As I understand it, tillering a R/D isn't the easiest thing in the world, which is why I plan on going really slow and posting lots of pictures for feedback through the process.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_20150206_083309_zpslwz3fppi.jpg)
oh oh... its a downhill slide from here mate
:D :D
looks great and well onto your way.
i would get a hold of "Roy from pa" he has a really great system figured out with a very easy to build caul, and heaps of clamps- and he really has that tillering down to a fine art-as do many others on this forum too.
but Roy is easier to schwindle- hes kinda older and more feeble, and should be real easy to bribe with some of that horse p#$$ stuff he calls beer :thumbsup:
fujiboy, knock it off.. :)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/2014bow6-1.png) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/2014bow6-1.png.html)
I would place your mid limb blocks exactly half way between the tip of the limb and the flare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSwx80xjTUE&list=UUBMjR2l-xfFufcLpkUpYYBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHEXdeQ196M
I'll be watching this with great interest! I thought about doing one but didn't want to give Mrs Roybert any more ammo to use against me!!
What's you mean gettercritter? :)
Yep, Roy is the man for your R/D longbow questions. He makes really sweet laminated wood bows. Always surprised that he can still draw one back, elderly as he is. :laughing:
You'll be amazed by how quiet a wooden bow is; I know I was.
Welcome to the forum!
Garrett, check out this thread on tillering for equal limb timing. Equal limb timing a bow makes it super quiet and a great shooting bow.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=012442
And check out this thread also, it will teach you a lot about glue up's and tillering a R/D wooden bow...
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=012149
Greg, yer on the thumpin list.. :)
I knew it would be a good idea to start a thread for this. Thanks for the info! I went out and bought the wood and clamps today for the gluing process. Roy, I noticed that in your pictures and thread, it seemed like you glued the pieces of the bow (minus the riser/handle piece), then shaped and cut the riser piece, gluing it on next. Is that correct? I've seen other builds where people did the backing, belly, and handle all in one gluing step.
I suppose the reason would probably be that if you're making a bow without deflex, you could glue the handle block right on with it. But with deflex, you can't really bend that handle block and need to first glue the belly/back to see what shape the handle will need to be to fit. Then glue the handle on in a second step. Is this correct?
Ah, I just found the answer on another thread! So I guess the question is... with the way that my ipe came pre-tapered, should I just use it as is and glue everything in one shot? Or should I sand down that handle ridge on the ipe, so that it will form a bend in the handle when clamped, and glue in two steps?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/20150208_193925_zpsygvtp88j.jpg) /20150208_193925_zpsygvtp88j.jpg
Also, I'm having trouble finding Unibond 800 locally. The only online store I found selling in the pint size listed it at $8.79 but $18 bucks shipping ground. That's a bit ridiculous. Does anyone have a better source, or a different type of glue that can be bought in a store?
It looks to me that your kit was designed to be a straight handle bow. You could play around with a form lke the one Roy showed and maybe still get a littler deflex out of the fade and reflex the tips. I don't think I would sand it down, but it could be done.
I couldn't find any unibond locally either. I paid the outrageous shipping! BTW unibond has a shelf life so don't order a big batch unless you are going to use it up with 6 months or so.
How does it look on the form? I don't have the handle block on there right now, but seeing as the thicker handle region is so flat, I'll probably shorten the middle support and stick it in there to glue in one step. The middle supports are halfway between the tips and the fades. Not a ton of deflex, but given the stiffness of the center, this kit was probably designed to be more of a reflex only bow anyways. I'm fine with that.
I will say that there is a large amount of tension "as is" in the form. I definitely wouldn't try to bend it anymore out of fear of something breaking. I should probably order the glue sometime soon.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/20150209_215927_zpszcnpcxyw.jpg)
After some digging on the site, I discovered that Weldwood Contact Cement looks like a good alternitive glue, and I can buy it at Home Depot for $10/2 pints. They also have a 3fl oz container for $5, but I might as well have extra left over than not enough as I'm ready to glue.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/weldwood_zps10cd33a9.png)
(http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/no/t2619.gif) (http://yoursmiles.org/t-no.php)
nope thats not what you want for gluing wood- i know the can says for gluing wood- but that is more for formica to counter top type applications.
it is a neoprene based glue( think wetsuit material)
you either need to use one of the titebonds- if you have very good mating surfaces- or a gap filler like an epoxy( smooth on ea40) or unibond.
the unibond is easy to use- water clean up- and tough glue- but leaves a brown glue line- if you are glueing white woods- which you are not- then use the epoxy if that worries you!
someone will tell you where to get unibond around where you are.
and get a toothing plane blade if you go that route- 3 rivers archery sells them.
good luck mate!
looking at roys form, and yours- - i know you cant get a whole lot of deflex out of your piece of ipe- but it seems that there is a lot of reflex- i dont know if in that configuration that it is such a good idea. if it were me- and i hate it when people say that- i usually tell them to go get their own- and do what they want- anyway- ...i might grind off that handle piece- get the deflex you want- then add a handle afterwards like the ol fella does (http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/science/p0314.gif) (http://yoursmiles.org/p-science.php) .
cheers.
can see he's not married- bows and boats inna bedroom!!!! :D
For your first one I would suggest going with what you have.
Having that built in start on the fades will help you in that area which is a trouble spot for first builds.
On the glue the unibond is the way to go for these.
Look up the Nocking Point. Terry has decent shipping prices.
I just picked up three cans at our UBM banquet from them.
what do you think of the profile he has there Ron?
whats your feelings/knowledge
If you were to make your mid limb posts shorter than your center handle post, that would induce some deflex. But I would do as Fuji-O boy said and grind the handle area flat with the rest of the bow, then glue on a handle later. My center post is 3 3/4 high, my mid limb posts are 2 3/4 high. Another thing, when clamping down bows like this, your wooden platform of your form is going to bow up some, that is why I bolted one inch angle iron to the sides of my form. Yours will work, but you will lose some d/r.
Unibond800 1/2 gallon containers for $25.00. Scroll down to unibond800, first glue is unibond one.
https://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7657.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/IMG_7657.jpg.html)
Thanks for the quick replies. Saved me from wasting my time with the contact cement. I ordered some Unibond 800. I think I will grind down the center portion and do 2 step. It seems like there's enough experience on the forum to give me confidence in going that route.
hmmm...i see they have tints for the glue. so that it can be better matched to whiter woods or darker woods. thats good!
Fujimo is correct - not the glue you want to use to glue up a bow. DAP Woodweld does make a ureaformaldehyde glue similar to unibond, but I have never tried it as my local stores do not stock it. Shipping on it is the same as unibond. Your local might carry it?
QuoteOriginally posted by fujimo:
can see he's not married- bows and boats inna bedroom!!!! :D
Haha! My girlfriend apparently doesn't mind too much. Plus she knows I'm going to be buying a house with a big garage sometime this summer.
Your form needs adjusting as Roy said or use more posts. It's very important to get your form dead on before glue-up.
Also what's really important is that the reflex isn't concentrated in one spot like on your form.
This is happening because there isn't much taper on the ipe. You need the reflex to be gradually increasing from where it starts (inner/mid limb)out to the tips. So the curve is elliptical not arc of a circle and definately not almost a straight line like it is at the moment.
As far as i'm concerned you shouldn't reduce the extra on the handle area. If you do you are opening up a whole can of worms called handles popping off. That extra thickness on your ipe is there for a reason.
Try not to run before you can walk! R/d bows are hard enough to tiller - make it easy on yourself!
QuoteOriginally posted by mikkekeswick:
Your form needs adjusting as Roy said or use more posts. It's very important to get your form dead on before glue-up.
Also what's really important is that the reflex isn't concentrated in one spot like on your form.
This is happening because there isn't much taper on the ipe. You need the reflex to be gradually increasing from where it starts (inner/mid limb)out to the tips. So the curve is elliptical not arc of a circle and definately not almost a straight line like it is at the moment.
As far as i'm concerned you shouldn't reduce the extra on the handle area. If you do you are opening up a whole can of worms called handles popping off. That extra thickness on your ipe is there for a reason.
Try not to run before you can walk! R/d bows are hard enough to tiller - make it easy on yourself!
So if I'm understanding correctly, the lack of tiller on the ipe which is causing the "straighter" looking reflex is actually creating a region of high stress at that bend. An elliptical reflex, on the other hand, would indicate that the stress is more evenly distributed along the limbs? And I could create that type of shape by either tillering the ipe more before gluing, or... more desirably, just add and play around with supports until I get a good shape to start with?
On one hand, I can leave the handle flat, making tillering easier. On the other, I can make it similar to Roy's form and get more deflex. Considering this is my first bow I intend to learn quite a bit (and I know this is a little different than my last post), but I'm deciding to leave the handle flat. That should save me some time and effort in tillering and give me confidence. Because once I've been through the process of completing the bow, I'll be more ready to build another with changes (like Roy's bow shape).
I'll play around with the supports and post another picture.
In the future building like Roy's form is the best Idea.
With Roy's and mine the handle area will have a bend in it.
Roy grinds his handle to fit this.
My way is to use many 1/8 inch or less slats and it bends to the bow. It is glued on after the bamboo and core like Roy does.
For this one it will be easier to just have it flat.
Agree to adjusting form for better bend, in the future tapering all pieces will aid in that.
You can get all the info you need here, but if you like videos
Dean Torges, building the bamboo backed bow video, covers a,lot of why on where the R/D is put into the bow.
Garrett, you could glue and screw a full length of 2x4 along each long side of your form. Having the 2x4's edge laying flush with the bottom of the form. That would also work out nice for your posts sitting down inside the 2x4's on the top. I tried a form like you have and you would be amazed at how the resistance of the bow wood causes the form base to bow up.
Okay before I put on more supports, how is this shape looking? The bend is closer to the tips, more rounded, and there's even a little deflex.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/20150211_210504_zpsvv6odoj4.jpg)
Another thought that had occurred to me was, "why do I have the supports as high as they are?" In Roy's picture, he uses a bunch of c-clamps and needs the clearance. My plan was to use spring clamps, with c-clamps only at the supports. In that case, I can translate the entire bow closer to the base by cutting an equal amount off of each support, and probably could clamp the center with handle block right onto the flat base without any support whatsoever. The main advantage of doing this would be to cut cost in the C-clamps. The 8" cost $15 all by itself.
Do a dry run first before you glue it up, to see how it looks. If you are leaving the bows handle area as it is, then you could glue the separate handle block on at the same time. With the bow as it is now, the handle area is not going to bend anyway. Why not forget the deflex on this bow and just induce about 4 inches of reflex with your end blocks. If you insist on spring clamps, fine but I would put one on each side across from each other, butting together at the center of the limb, every two inches. Putting just one in the center could leave gaps in the glue line along the side.
Here's the dry run. I will add C-clamps where the Red arrows indicate and double up on the spring clamps like you suggested.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/20150212_190626_zpszdpdrvyv.jpg)
I like it..
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
I like it..
Me too, watching this one
Pay attention, Ben. This rookie might learn ya something... :)
Looking better but I just wouldn't use spring clamps. Go to the local bike shop and get some innertubes. Ask for the ones they are going to throw away (from repairs). You probably want about 8 mtb ones (26 inch).
You can still tweak the shape by adding more posts.
Another tip to give you a better clamping surface is to get a strip of steel about 1/8 thick and drill/screw it to your posts. It will give a nicer more even curve to your form.
QuoteOriginally posted by mikkekeswick:
Looking better but I just wouldn't use spring clamps. Go to the local bike shop and get some innertubes. Ask for the ones they are going to throw away (from repairs). You probably want about 8 mtb ones (26 inch).
You can still tweak the shape by adding more posts.
Another tip to give you a better clamping surface is to get a strip of steel about 1/8 thick and drill/screw it to your posts. It will give a nicer more even curve to your form.
Man, this forum is full of ideas! I hadn't even considered that yet. I just did a bunch of reading on inner tube clamping. It seems like (along with being free) it would do a great job of ensuring the entire width of each layer is in tight contact (like putting opposing clamps on each side). Something like the picture below might work fine. I could keep the C-clamps in place, but lose the spring clamps in favor of inner tubing. I'm still waiting on the Unibond, so I am still open to changing the clamp process. From the pic below and Roy's clamp pic, it looks like plastic wrap isn't used. I've read other builds where people used it beneath the clamps or tubing to help with clean up. Does it make a difference with Unibond800?
QuoteOriginally posted by macbow:
I moved from all clamps some time ago to less clamps and the inner tube rubber.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/macbow/image-8.jpg)
Picture is pretty cluttered but shows the ratio of clamps to inner tube. I use bicycle inner,tubes cut up.
Main clamps are at the center and where the spacer blocks are located.
Small c clamps for the area around the power lamination if used.
I always wrap mine in plastic food wrap, but I use C clamps with wooden shims. O/w the shims will wind up epoxied to the bow and the bow to the wood posts on the form. :scared:
Maybe you don't have to worry about that if the bow is completely wrapped with inner tubes? :dunno:
I wrap every bow with plastic wrap at glue up. If you don't, you will have a mess...
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/2014bow4-1.png) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/2014bow4-1.png.html)
The picture of Macs tube wrap isn't what I was expecting. I was under the impression of cutting one inch wide cross sections from an inner tube and stretching them across the bow, down onto hooks or pegs along side the form. Like super wide gum bands.
Another "Important" thing Garrett. Before you glue this bow up, clamp it down on the form and run a string weighted on each end down the center, from the center of one limb tip to the center of the other limb tip. Clamp it down tight once it's aligned straight. Then what I do is drill 2 small holes in the center of the handle about 2 inches apart where the leather grip will cover them, and I drill a single hole in the very end of each limb tip. Then after I apply the glue to all surfaces, and remember that, you need a coat of glue on every surface that will come together. Then I stick a tooth pick into those holes I drilled. Those tooth picks will keep the bow aligned while you clamp it up. Otherwise, the glue joints will be slippery and your bow could get glued up out of alignment...
One thing with innertubes is that they can cup the backing if it's thin so if you plan on using a backing less than 3/16th thick you want to put a pressure strip on the backing.
Food wrap is useful stuff :)
Roy is right about everything moving. I use spring clamps to hold the lams straight then wrap with good, strong parcel tape. Nothing ever moves.
It's easier to wrap the full bow or you can also use the hooks method. It doesn't matter.
Remember to pull the tubes nice and tight, I pull on mine until I get most of the stretch out.
I finally got the glue in the mail! Just picked up a cheap paint brush and latex gloves for like $1 and I'm ready to start gluing. Also, I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but I'm making a thorough video of the build-a-long, so I've been taking a bunch of shots for building the form and doing the dry run, etc.
I've got the bow all glued up and sitting in the top shelf of a closet with a space heater until at least tomorrow after work.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_20150222_183000_zpshkrjvvrj.jpg)
I took it out of the form and it looks nice. Everything is aligned well and retained much of the shape when glued. I've just been working away with a wood rasp to get the glue residue sanded off. I think I might rent some time on a belt sander to expedite the process until I get down to clean wood before going back to hand tools.
Which brings me to my next question. Symmetrical or asymmetrical limbs? Does it matter? Certainly there must be a reason people do it, and I think the reason is to give a longer upper limb so that the arrow travels closer to the center of the bow. And the easiest way to do that is to shape my 4" handle so that it's centered a little below center of the bow.
But I also know that some people like to stick with symmetrical bows. Thoughts?
heres a tip, when i do a glue up nowadays, i mask the side pieces, and back and belly of the wood- then after glue up the onlky place the glue is actually sticking to the bow is at the glue lines- makes it super easy for clean up- a lot can be pulled off with the tape- and the sanding process gives you that tape buffer- just sand/rasp thru the glue- when you expose the tape- good enough- quick and safe!!
Another update. I've got all of the glue residue off and have shaped the side view of the osage handle so that it fades into the ipe. I decided just to stay with the hand tools, so it has been slow work with the wood rasp. I'm currently working on thinning out the width of the handle. Simultaneously, I'm gathering supplies for the tillering tree. Surprisingly, the type of pulley I need is very hard to find. I'm having one ordered to the store at Home Depot since they apparently don't stock them.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_20150225_221324_zps4ywiknrp.jpg)
looking cooking!!
glue lines look great from here!! (http://yoursmiles.org/ssmile/pozitive/s0801.gif) (http://yoursmiles.org/s-pozitive.php)
Mark of good workmanship , great glue lines!
Look up your nearest rock climbing shop they will be able to get you very nice pulleys for not much money. They will never wear out for bow making.
I use the Petzl Oscillante and one of the tandems just because I had them spare from rigging slacklines.
What type of pulley are you looking for? I use a regular 3" pulley with ball bearings for my top pulley, about $6.00 at home depot. And the bottom pulley is a solid pulley that slides onto a 1/2 inch shaft..
Glue lines look nice.
Top pulley.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7867.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/IMG_7867.jpg.html)
Bottom pulley.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7398.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/IMG_7398.jpg.html)
Roy, I am going to have to use a modified tiller tree since I can't mount anything to the wall in my apartment. My plan is to use a wall/ceiling mount pulley and mount it directly onto the beam. It would take the place of your lower pulley. I might have to reinforce the wood again if it flexes. I don't think I'll need the upper pulley, but I'll find out once I attempt to use it. Pulley Link (http://www.zoro.com/i/G0938411/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=CjwKEAiAyMCnBRDa0Pyex-qswB0SJADKNMKAyte5kTBTWJPBhVFCYKQds9pxoJCApsnLytAUqZrBmxoCOwTw_wcB)
A two pulley system works nice, it cuts the pull weight in half.
Could ya mount the tillering tree on the wall in your girl friends apartment? Ya gotta think this stuff out, ya know? LOL
Yea I suppose adding a second pulley would be pretty easy. A 3/4" one should fit fine without contacting the board seeing as the bow handle is over 1" wide.
Roy has a Rolls-Royce pulley system, I have a Yugo pulley system on my tillering tree, one cheap marine pulley on an eye hook near the floor. My system has been tillering bows for almost 20 years.
Bow is ready to start tillering. I've got a short/long string on it and the first thing that happens when I pull is that the bow tilts. Look at where the limb tips are when I start vs when the video is finished. The limbs are symmetrical from the center, but I'm pulling 1 5/8" from center for equal limb timing. I want to be sure that it's tipping because the right limb is stiffer and not just because I'm pulling from off center. Though, when I hold the bow so that it can't tip the left limb still bends a little more. So I should scrape some wood off the right limb, correct?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0lsUi_s_mc&feature=youtu.be
Here is another video where I kept the bow from tilting to get an idea of how it's bending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXprd_qNuB0&feature=youtu.be
The right (lower limb) is a little stiff in it's middle section.
10 scrapes and then check tiller again.
You may find a 'tillering gizmo' very handy as it will allow you to easily compare limb to limb.
Are you using a scale to pull to your target weight?
If not do so as this is very important. Always pull the same weight unless you spot a problem before hitting weight.
Mike is correct, limb on the right is stiff at mid limb. It is doing all the bending just outside the fade area. First thing I would do is shorten up the bow string so that it lays tight against the belly when the bow is strung. The shorter string will apply more stress to the outer third of the limbs.
QuoteOriginally posted by mikkekeswick:
The right (lower limb) is a little stiff in it's middle section.
10 scrapes and then check tiller again.
You may find a 'tillering gizmo' very handy as it will allow you to easily compare limb to limb.
Are you using a scale to pull to your target weight?
If not do so as this is very important. Always pull the same weight unless you spot a problem before hitting weight.
Interesting. I might have to make one of those gizmos. They look pretty simple anyways. Also, I am using a scale but haven't come close to target weight yet. The scale has only been reading about 15-20 pounds (x2 = 30-40 because of the pulleys). My target weight is around 65 to start with and see how easily I can shoot it.
I revamped my tillering tree. Now at least it's vertical lol.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_20150302_182244_zpsxj0i9omr.jpg)
Well, I've now taken a total of 20 light rasps across the middle of the lower limb (right). It doesn't tip in the tree anymore. The top limb is still bending down further (4.25" vs 3.5") Do you think I'm correct in the region I want to remove further wood from? The scale is reading about 22lb here, so in actuality around 40lb draw, and this is still with a loose tillering string.
Also, I bought everything I need for the gizmo, but forgot to buy a pencil :knothead: So I'm going to make a quick trip to the store.
(//%5Burl=http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/Tiller%201_zpsmr5iihlb.png.html%5D%20%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/Tiller%201_zpsmr5iihlb.png)[/url] [/IMG]
I'm open to suggestions. I had it close to even with both limb tips getting to about 6". The upper was about 6" and the lower maybe 5 5/8". Tried stringing it to a 3" brace height and I couldn't get it strung even until I was red in the face. I got it to where it was strung with a really tight string with a 0" brace height, and thought, "Man my compound doesn't even start off with this much tension starting the pull." So my conclusion was that the bow overall still needs quite a bit of wood removed. So I took quite a bit off both limbs. And I am currently at the picture below. Lower (right) limb tip is still not bending down quite as far, but I can't tell which spot I would need to shave down on. The scale says about 20lb or so here, so 40lb actual give or take. Should I attempt to string it at 3" BH again or try to even the limbs more first?
I've been at this for hours already. Exercising the limbs about a few hundred times in total.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09169_zps99xljkdw.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09169_zps99xljkdw.jpg.html)
all i know is, that late in the race like this- go real slow- it will suddenly come round, and one can end up light, just go slow and easy- it really looks great- wait for some of the rd experts to chime in here
cheers
wayne
Fuji has it right.
take it slow.
It's AMAZING what a couple hard scrapes can do in the wrong spot.
All I'd add is to get away from the long string sooner rather than later.
A shorter string changes the tiller quite a bit.
And ya might want to get a scale in there somewhere.
You don't really want to put any more pull on her than you're hoping to end up with.
I don't have a very good track record for bows but...I've been surprised the difference what I said above makes.
..oh and I like the fish
Hang your scale off the top pulley then you have no guess work, doubling isn't going to be accurate because of friction.
File yourself a couple of shallow temp string grooves past your actual nocks so that you can use a stringer - don't use a glass bow stringer. you can just use some paracord etc and tie small loops in the ends so that they just slip over your new temp nocks. This will making bracing it a cinch.
take some more pictures once its braced as the tiller will be different eg. the tips will be coming round a bit more.
Did you floor tiller the bow "before" putting it on the tree? Floor tillering is holding the top of one limb in one hand, then pushing on the handle of the bow with the other hand to bend the limb that is resting on the floor. You want to remove wood and floor tiller it until the limbs begin to take on a nice even bend/arc so to speak, BEFORE you go to the tree.. Having the string tight against the belly is good, too long a tillering string is not good. Your tree looks like you have it setup to replicate where you will be pulling the bow string when shooting. That is GOOD. I see the black vertical line on the tree, that is good. Don't worry about which limb tip is bending more or less. Because they will not bend the same, they can't because you are pulling more towards the top limb than the bottom limb. Just be concerned that the trees pull rope is traveling straight down that black line on the tree. When it does that, that means both limbs are bending equally, REGUARDLESS of how far either tip travels downward.
Did you facet the edges of the limbs, back and belly? Then did you round off the edges and then sand them smooth? Also anytime you remove wood, always sand them smooth and make sure there are no crisp edges or scratches anywhere. If you can't string this bow, then YES it is way too heavy and needs wood removed equally from both limbs. Then floor tillered again. Also make sure the center area of the belly of the limbs have a nice even taper to them. You don't want any bumps or depressions anywhere. And anytime you remove wood, sand that area smooth and be sure to check that the bellies have an even smooth transition from riser to tips. Always exercise the bow 30 times after each removal of wood. When I check the weight, I don't pull the scale with the trees pull rope, I pull the scale with my hands, and only pull it to as far as I have pulled the tree rope down. If the tree rope drifts off that black line, it ALWAYS drifts towards the limb which is too stiff. ALWAYS... Therefore you will need to remove wood from that stiff limb to achieve equal limb timing, hence the tree rope traveling right down the black line..
Ya dig all that? LOL
You should have a folder with all this stuff in it Roy...copy/paste..lol
...sounds exactly like what you've told me in the past.
Listen to what Roy says..he's pretty good at this stuff. :thumbsup:
fellas theres a man dedicated to bow building- looks like his tree is set up in his livingroom. :eek:
either you are single mate...or i want to borrow your wife training manual!! :D :thumbsup:
:laughing:
..Wife training manual..
Looked that up...Author died mysteriously shortly after publishing.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Lol. It's in the bedroom, so that when I open up the master bathroom door after I take a shower, it keeps the bedroom humidity higher than normal MN winter levels. The GF has yet to express disapproval of my methods. I guess I'm just a lucky guy... heard that all changes after marriage though. :readit:
But seriously, thanks. This is all great input. The bow woods came "floor tillered" but noted that they could be used to make a bow up to 100 pounds. I put the scale right on the string and it read 20 pounds after pulling it only a couple inches with the long string. I had not faceted the edges and sanded... I've just been reducing with a pocket plane and wiping away the dust.
When I get home today I will do the recommended things: facet edges of back and belly, reduce both limbs a little more, sand smooth, and floor tiller. I've also got a traditional longbow stringer coming in the mail tomorrow.
get yourself a cabinet scraper, and a burnishing tool to sharpen it with- you'll never look back!!
and build yourself an "Eric's gizmo"!!
An old pair of scissors taken apart makes a great scraper... Maybe steal the girl friends pair when she hain't looking.. :)
X's 2 on the gizmo.....
Good to see another BME lurking on the bench.
looks like you've got lots of good advice so I'll keep out of it lol.
But yes it will all change after marriage ... That "bedroom" you speak of will be known as the "nursery" ....
BME huh? So that's what's wrong wif him? :) LOL
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
An old pair of scissors taken apart makes a great scraper... Maybe steal the girl friends pair when she hain't looking.. :)
X's 2 on the gizmo.....
do left handed scissors work?
Only in you left hand .... Obviously
oh yeah...duh..what was I thinking? :knothead:
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09178_zpsvvmhhydg.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09178_zpsvvmhhydg.jpg.html)
Pulling around 46 pounds at this length. 1" BH. I think I need to get a non-stretch string to brace it easier. With the paracord I'm using now I have to bend the limbs to what would be a 6" BH or so, and when I relax the limbs the string stretches back to a minimal BH.
You do need a good string, but it looks nice.
I picked up a B-50 Dacron string at the shop. It stretched out quite a bit putting it on, as the guy behind the counter estimated it was probably still an 80lb bow based on stringing it. I've put some more twists in it to get the brace height back. Right now I have roughly 55 full twists and it's brace height is 4.5". Is it safe to say I need a 1" shorter string?
A shorter string and more wood removed from the bow before stringing it again. A 50 pound bow will do all you want, and be easier to shoot...
Will do. Also, I read on Sam Harper's BBI build-a-long that he sanded off the "rind" on the bamboo backing, starting with a pneumatic drum sander and working down to 1000 grit sandpaper. Should I sand the shiny bamboo surface as well?
I wouldn't bother with that yet. That can be done when the bow is done being tillered. Don't use a sander either. Use a scraper then 220 - 320 paper sanding by hand lengthwise along the limbs. You just want to barely remove the rine.
And it's better to leave a wee bit of it on there, in any tiny furrows, than to scrape or sand enough to get it all out/off, compromising power fibers in the 'ridges' in the process.
I would never use any type of power sander on the back(outside) surface of the bamboo. It's certainly not a difficult or time consuming thing to do by hand.
I do most of the removal of the rind with a scraper, with any sanding literally taking just a minute or two.
Okay, update time. I've taken a little more off, go the bow braced to a closer to realistic 7 to 7 1/8", and have exercised it back to 23". It's still 57# at this point so I have a ways to go, but how is my progress? Bottom limb (right) is bending a bit more than the top, which seams wrong, but the pulley is still coming straight down. It's more pronounced at brace and the limbs are closer at 23". Perhaps that's all just part of the dynamic timing. Keep removing wood evenly?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/23%20inch%20tiller_zpsde9qp5el.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/23%20inch%20tiller_zpsde9qp5el.jpg.html)
Also, there's a tiny amount of twist in the lower limb, near the tip. You can see how it's at a little bit of an angle. Should I even worry about it?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/Limb%20Twist_zps4wxbgjfq.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/Limb%20Twist_zps4wxbgjfq.jpg.html)
roys got some cool diagrammes, that he will post shortly- thad'll help with the twist- seems like you have still got lotsa room to deal with it!
lookin cookin!
I stole this from Roy waaay back..
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/tri%203/bent%20limbfix.jpg)
When I hit 24" draw, the string slips out of the groove on the top limb, making a little plucking noise. The fulcrum is closer to the top limb tip than the bottom, so the angle is different, explaining why it jumps out of the top limb first. What's the best way to deal with this? Rasp the grooves in deeper? Try and cut new grooves adjacent to these in order to better represent the angle of pull at full draw? (I still have ~4" more to go before full draw). Something else?
P.S. Everything else on the bow is going great. It looks very nice at this draw, and is getting closer to my desired draw weight.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_0101_zpsc8oca7sc.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/IMG_0101_zpsc8oca7sc.jpg.html)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_0104_zps5x0xqo2a.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/IMG_0104_zps5x0xqo2a.jpg.html)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/IMG_0109_zpsjegqkhha.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/IMG_0109_zpsjegqkhha.jpg.html)
so this is how i like to do my tips, especially to deal with that problem!
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx309/mwnicol/4_zpscf305c6d.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/mwnicol/media/4_zpscf305c6d.jpg.html)
One side of the limb that's twisting is most likely thinner than the other side. Check the thickness on both sides and compare them. The bow string will drift towards the thinner weaker side. So wood has to be removed from the side the string is moving away from. Also check the string grooves depth. Get the limb twist fixed first. Then continue tillering. After fixing the problem, the pull rope will probably drift off the line. Remove wood accordingly to get it tracking straight again.
I noticed in the pictures that the edges of the limbs look square, they need slightly rounded over and I also seen rasp marks along the sides of the limbs, those should be sanded smooth before pulling the bow on the tree. Having rasp scratches in the wood is asking for trouble when working the bow on the tree.
Thanks guys. I'll get to work on those items tonight. Hopefully I'll have it ready for the first shots by the end of the weekend.
looking good- yer doing a great job- its quite a bit tougher tillering those RD bows :thumbsup:
Looking good. Roy is right though, get that twisted sorted out before anything else. And round edges, always.
@27". Comments, questions, concerns? Also I have it braced at 6.5" right now (length of my fist and extended thumb. I've seen numbers anywhere from 6.5 to 8 for R/D bows, and since I have that big humped style grip, I figured it will naturally like a little shorter measurement than a locator style or sculpted recurve style grip. Once I start shooting it more, I can surely fine tune it.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/Tiller3_zpsw0bjxune.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/Tiller3_zpsw0bjxune.jpg.html)
Tiller looks beautiful to me. I brace mine just high enough so the string doesn't slap my wrist, about 6". But that's just me.
Really nice work :thumbsup:
Took it to a local archery shop. It was tough to buy only one arrow to try out (I have a dozen shafts, points, and a fletching jig, coming in the mail). They ended up finding a 2413 aluminum that was 29", so probably a good bit stiff. Here were my thoughts: It'll take a lot of getting used to a trad bow with no letoff, but I've got plenty of time to get use to it. It was well balanced, but my muscles still quivered a bit holding at full draw. Also, I had a little bit of string slap so I'll increase the BH a bit until it goes away. It seemed a bit noisy. Mostly the "twang" of the string. I'm assuming some bow hush will help. Also, since the aluminum arrow spine was stiff, I believe the rear end of the arrow was probably hitting the riser. It would have explained some of the noise, and my rest broke. The rubber prong on the bear weather style rest sheared clean off after about 10 shots. One feather was facing straight down.
I'm assuming the following:
1) Increasing the BH will eliminate wrist slap, reduce hand shock, and made the bow quieter.
2) Building my ~700 grain UEFOC arrows will make the bow quiter. Being spined correctly, they will not smash the riser, resulting in no more broken rubber rests and a quieter shot.
3) Adding bow hush near the limb tips will quiet the bow, assuming some of the noise is from string slap.
4) Adding a suede/leather grip cover will also help with hand shock.
My next steps for the bow are to continue sanding with finer and finer grit sandpaper, adding a suede/leather grip cover, replacing the rest, and probably apply a clear coat. Then build the arrows when they come in. I'm planning on building the arrows with the following materials according the to the Ashby reports:
-Full length Victory VForce HV 350
-Gold tip 100 grain brass inserts (might need to be polished down .001" inch to fit)
-300 grain field points, and eventually 300 grain single bevel broadheads with high MA
-4 white feathers fletched 90-90. Will start at 4" and reduce as allowed for good flight.
-Turbulator made from a thin strip of arrow wrap material.
-About 1.5" aluminum arrow segments used as external footing, increasing structural integrity behind that heavy tip and increasing the FOC (probably also stiffening dynamic spine a bit as well).
I agree that it's kind of a shock going from a wheel bow to a trad bow. You'll be surprised how quickly you adapt to it, though, as long as you're not over bowed. IMO, starting with a lighter bow and working your way to a heavier one is a good idea.
Wooden longbows are usually very quiet, sometimes whisper quiet. Hope the correct spined arrows solve that noise problem.
Curve looks pretty for sure.
To be honest though, it looks to me that the outter 60% of the limbs aren't bending basically at all.
Left side's hinge is centered about where the upper horizontal lines of the grid goes by.
Right side's is centered a touch farther down the limb..maybe 1/2 way between the upper and second grid line.
It might be the lighting but the right side looks to be bending a fair amount right at the fade.
I'm sorry to be so critical..but you asked for it...lol.
I'm not the best builder in the world..closer to the worst really..but that's what I see.
I have no problem reducing the mids out to the tips if that's what needs to be done. Especially since, now that I look at it, there is still reflex near the tips. I've seen a lot of pictures of R/D that look more D shaped by the time they're at full draw. I agree the lighting does make it harder to tell. I should photoshop the shadows out.
It may very well be fine the way it is.
I'm hoping better bowyers will chime in for you.
I don't think you should be shooting for a D profile.
The aim of course is to get all the limb (except for the last 8" or so) bending evenly.
If your bow was straight when unbraced then a D would be about right.
...your bow isn't straight..so there should be some reflex in the tips at full draw.
Again..it looks pretty good to me..but if I HAD to find something wrong..it would be the inner limbs seem to be bending more than any other part.
..those are my thoughts..ymmv..lol
I would remove some wood where I marked it. Leave the end 8 inches of the tips alone, that's how they should look. I don't see any hinges..
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/Tiller3_zpsw0bjxune.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/Tiller3_zpsw0bjxune.jpg.html)
ROY IS RIGHT....and a guy to listen too.
I shouldn't have said hinge...just some areas bending more than others.
Whew, I feel better now, John.. :)
thought that was my line after seeing you agree with me in a kinda sideways type of way.
Okay, I've removed some wood in suggested areas, removed the shadows from the wall, and have the ellipse centered in the center of the bow (bow is drawn to 28"). My thought based on looking at it is that it's still a little stiff in the region I highlighted in yellow. It starts to separate from the ellipse pretty close to the handle. Granted, maybe the ellipse shouldn't be centered to begin with. And I didn't take a TON of wood off, so maybe all of the same regions still need more work. What do you guys think?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/Tiller%204-2_zpsgzrue6rm.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/Tiller%204-2_zpsgzrue6rm.jpg.html)
is it still following the line?
...looks like it is.
Looks better to me.
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
is it still following the line?
...looks like it is.
Looks better to me.
It's very close to following the line. If anything it's moving a little to the right, which would be in agreement with taking a tiny amount off the lower limb. It's tough to say with 100% certainty because the pulleys are so close together, I'm not sure if the location that the string is tied off on has any say in the matter. It feels pretty decent when I draw back though. Still a tad heavy overall perhaps but nothing I wouldn't adjust to. Wouldn't mind if I needed to take off a bit more.
nice looking bow man. Just a suggestion. Be leery of bow shops when looking for arrows for a trad bow. I've seen first hand a guy walk in with a 45# trad bow and the people behind the counter love arrow charts which don't give an accurate description for trad bow. They set the poor guy up with some 2217s and there is no way those arrows will work. Of all the bows I've built over the years, most of the aluminums are going to fall around the 2016-2018 mark. some of the heavier glass bows will hit 2020. If you are shooting aluminums, start with 2016 full length and tune from there. If you find you have to cut the shaft too short, then bump up to a 2018
QuoteOriginally posted by TradBowyer:
nice looking bow man. Just a suggestion. Be leery of bow shops when looking for arrows for a trad bow. I've seen first hand a guy walk in with a 45# trad bow and the people behind the counter love arrow charts which don't give an accurate description for trad bow. They set the poor guy up with some 2217s and there is no way those arrows will work. Of all the bows I've built over the years, most of the aluminums are going to fall around the 2016-2018 mark. some of the heavier glass bows will hit 2020. If you are shooting aluminums, start with 2016 full length and tune from there. If you find you have to cut the shaft too short, then bump up to a 2018
Yea I tend to be a little skeptical everytime I walk into an archery shop because I'm not sure if they're going to do something the way I've researched and want it done lol. The big thing I've seen with trad bows is how far from centershot your arrow is. The charts don't account for that. I used OnTarget2 software for putting together my compound arrows and the Stu Miller spine calculator thus for for this bow. Even then I know they won't be 100% accurate but usually give a good enough estimate to start and fine tune afterwards.
Looks great, I would give it a final sanding, seal it and call it a bow.. Good job.. ^5
Cool. Question on the string. Right now I have the B-50 dacron 64" string. It initially stretched a couple inches, and I had to put about 100 twists in it to get it to brace again. A few more twists and it would be rolling into knots. The string is rated for 70lbs, which this bow is close to. I'd like to get a better performance string, not for added speed, but extra strength and lower stretch. I've read horror stories about FF with bows that weren't designed for it, but have been thinking about D97 as well. My other option would be I guess to buy a 62" or 63" B-50 string and have less twists once it stretches out.
next step is to start building your own strings :D :D .
what I used to do with B50 is, pre stretch the the strands, then make up the string- no problems after that-
I now use fast flight plus on all my bows- WITH padded loops - and I believe that is the key- pad the loops, I do mine with about 8 extra strands of B50 in the loops over and above the fast flight.- that seems to make it about the same thickness as a 12 strand B50 string.
These are 16 strand flemish twist D97. Think I would still need any padding in the loops?
http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4510X
Heck no....
Fujio-boy can't even count that high so he never made a 16 strander... :) LMAO
is the string 64" long or did you buy a string that says 64" on the packet? Reason I ask is that most string manufacturer's record the length of the string as the length required that will give you close to the brace height of the bow. Example: my longbows require a string that is 3" shorter than the length of the bow to get the bow at a good brace height so if I have a 66" string, my actual string length would be 63" from loop to loop but it would still be for a 66" bow and labeled as such..forgive me if you already know this...dont' want to offend..bottom line is you don't want to put that many twists in the string...its bad for the string plus will rob you of performance. When I build my strings out of B50..i actually build in a small 'stretch' factor so that I have room to twist a small amount as the string stretches.
always wear me slippers-so cant see the tootsies. so gotta use me 10 digits and the two fellas- that gives me the 12 ah need :goldtooth:
but to answer your question, i dont know!! :dunno: i have never used D97 and i build endless loop strings- not smart enuf to do the twist!!
Today I sanded the entire thing smoother than a baby's behind. Started with 60grit and worked down to 220. Smooth fillets on all corners. I bought leather, artificial sinew, and adhesive for the grip. They were out of dark brown leather dye at the hobby store so I'll pick some up at a different location tomorrow. Bought OOOO steel wool. Gonna stain the bamboo because even though I think the light bamboo looks great, I'd like it a bit darker for carrying around in the woods. I also picked up some Tru Oil from Birchwood Casey to apply finishing layers. It's coming together.
Side note, I bought a 2117 arrow because I couldn't wait to put some more arrows through it, and put a 300 grain field point on it. Being much closer to the right spine, the bow shot much smoother, quieter, and with less hand shock. :bigsmyl:
My arrows came in yesterday, but they were the WRONG ARROWS! I ordered the Victory Vforce HV 350s. They shipped the reguar Vforce (not HV). So I sent them back and the correct batch is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I have the 100 grain brass inserts. My Bohning fletching jig came today, as did the 100 white LW feathers. I practiced a four fletch 90-90 on the cheap aluminum. Looks nice! I will start shooting it more once everything is all said and done. But I'm assuming I should not do any serious tuning until the new string comes in. I'd hate to start trimming shafts and then realize they need to be longer with the new string!
I've taken good video of everything so far. I'm hoping it will be a good educational resource for others and hopefully drive some more people to find out what a great resource this site is.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/PICT_20150319_225010_zpsjchr2x5c.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/PICT_20150319_225010_zpsjchr2x5c.jpg.html)
I dyed the bamboo and lightened it up between the nodes with steel wool. It dried in a neat vertical grain pattern. Kind of reminds me of a rustic, weathered shack. The leather handle was simple enough to glue and tie with artificial sinew. The Osage does look a little out of place being so yellow. I think a lighter wood like spalted maple might have made a little better match for the handle wood. Oh well.
I think I may have picked some of the hardest arrows to find in stock. Ordered on Amazon and got the regular Vforce (not the HV versions I wanted). They overnighted the replacement shipment and sent the wrong arrows again. I told them the probably had them labeled wrong in inventory, and they gave me a $10 credit on top of the second return. Called every archery shop within 40 miles. Two said they had them but actually didn't when I showed up. The others didn't stock them "but could order them in 1-2 weeks". Finally tonight I found a half dozen shafts on **** for $32+ shipping. They'll come next Wednesday. At least the new string, otter fur silencers and arrows should all arrive around the same time next week.
Lets see some "glamour" pics :)
bow looks aesome- and not trying to be a smarty pants- but such a beautiful wooden bow- why not shoot woodies(oh- oh- you hear that faint popping sounds, as i open the proverbial can :D )
X's 2.....
I like fujimo's thinking...
....but ya could go all the way and do bamboo arrows with the same stain...really looks good together... :readit:
lol
Would like to see some show off pics...you deserve the attention..lol
I actually did really want to do the wood look on the arrows. I think it looks and matches much better. But I also wanted to try that UEFOC idea from the Ashby reports, and I couldn't get that with either wood or "traditional looking carbons". Too high of GPI. Heck, I only bought 6 arrow shafts. I could probably buy 6 Gold Tip traditional and make some normal EFOC arrows too to see if I like them better. They would put me at about a 748 grain arrow with 24% FOC as opposed to the 640 grain 29% FOC with the Victory's. I know that realistically I'm probably splitting hairs. Either one will shoot fine and give me more than enough penetration out of this bow.
I'm scared to take on actual arrow making this soon. Gotta eliminate variables and become comfortable with trad before trying to guess whether my poor shooting is from inconsistent arrows or inconsistent form lol.
get a full tapered sitka spruce shaft- with some heavier points- that will be more akin to what yer thinking- but Zradix has a good point with the grass arrows.
the wood/grass will be way quieter- and kinder on the soul :D warmer on the fingies in winter too!
The tapered spruce shafts ( Hildebrand are great ) will actually give you better foc than boo IF YOU KEEP THE SAME OVERALL ARROW WEIGHT.
Boo weighs more than spruce believe it or not..at least the 50 or so shafts I made did..
You get a light weight spruce shaft ( you can ask for a light weight range from Hildebrand) and put a 190 or 250 grain VPA 3 blade on there and you'll have a pretty high foc.
...carbon and Al arrows are nice too.. :rolleyes: ...lol
I looked at the spine for the Hildebrand spruce shafts and the heaviest they came in was at 40-45#. I'm thinking this bow will shoot a .340 static spine, which is between the 5575 and 7595 spines, so maybe like a 70-75# spine arrow in trad terms.
what is the final weight of bow? I looked through your posts and saw you said close to 70. If the bow is not true center than your arrow spine is going to be weaker than the poundage. When I build a wood bow I start at 5-10# lighter than my bow weight and i'm usually close. Some I have to go 10-15# lighter. but this will change depending on how center shot the bow is but I would start 5-10# lighter to start. If you are looking for heavy arrows, give Allegheny mountain arrow woods a call...they sell Ash or hickory shafts in heavy spines and you will get the weight. I built a set of 75-80# hickorys from them and they ended up 900 grains..
Hildebrand has 70-75 tapered premium shafts for $47/doz
http://www.hildebrandarrowshafts.com/products.htm
click on "sitka spruce premium shafts"
scroll to the bottom of the page.
you want the tapered shafts right under the last/bottom picture.
you need to look at the 11/32nd tapered to 5/16ths.
...not so sure you need 70-75 spine...but they do sell em.
If you have any real want to start using wood most of the time, do yourself a favor and get a spine test kit..ie..1 or 2 arrows of a few different spines. That way you can shoot the arrows out of your next bows and see what spine works the best...then buy a dozen of what you want.
Just shoot woodies. Heck ya just made a wooden bow, why shoot that high tech stuff? Ya need to get your head and butt aligned.. :)
These are the numbers I had plugged in to get the static spine required for the carbons. The side plate on the bear weather rest is roughly .700" from center, so I chose 3/4" on the sideplate measurement. I probably will want to switch to wood at some point, but I think the time is after I get past the learning curve with the new bow and know I can shoot consistently enough to tackle working with wood, which must be a process all its own. Starting out with carbons, at least I know the arrows are consistent and it's my form that causes errant shots. Also I guessed on the 67 pounds. It was 69-70, and I did a fair amount of sanding to prep for the Tru-Oil finish, which looks nice by the way. :thumbsup: I'm headed to the archery shop today to get the draw weight retested and order 6 "traditional" carbons, which I don't think they'll stock. Glamor pics will come after the flemish twist string and otter fur silencers come!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/stu%20miller%20calc_zpsfgtscmg3.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/stu%20miller%20calc_zpsfgtscmg3.jpg.html)
Good luck!
In all honesty, Deep down I think you are correct in starting with carbons. At least you know they're straight and consistent. After you get them tuned and shooting straight, you'll be able to see what happens when your form changes.
Woods are a little more work with the periodic checking of straightness, slight to more than slight differences in weight and such......but they are way cooler..lol
...but hey...I took a deer this last season with carbon....come to think of it, every deer I've shot either by trad or wheelie bows was with carbon..except for the 1st years ago, that was alum.
Just have fun with it!
Here's a clip of me shooting it at 69#. The sanding apparently didn't do anything to reduce the draw weight. I ran the numbers again and discovered I can use the same 340 spine arrows at ~58# if I leave the arrows at full length. So after I get the glamor shots done I probably will drop the draw weight before tuning the arrows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtT_QTmIOA4&feature=youtu.be
This has been a fun thread to follow. Great job! And thanks for taking the time to post all the progress pics.
Looking good!
Throw some string silencers on there to quiet it down a bit.
What weight is the arrow you're shooting I. The video?
I have a 16 strand flemish twist string and otter fur silencers on the way. That arrow is a 2117 aluminum full length with 4x4" feathers and a 300 grain field point. So about 710 approximately. I didn't actually weigh it. I'm thinking the carbons I'm building up should weigh about 695 grains and 28% FOC.
I took a bit more wood off the belly last night. I'm estimating it's around 64 or 65 pounds now. I'll get it measured to check and then try to get it down closer to 60.
I have made a lot of arrows and I have to say I was shocked at how well the bamboo arrows shot. And the durability. No worrying about spine with those and super cheap to throw together. Just go get a bag of bamboo garden stakes for like $8 and get 10+ arrows out of it.
I've bounced them off of rocks and they held up.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kevinnator11:
I have made a lot of arrows and I have to say I was shocked at how well the bamboo arrows shot. And the durability. No worrying about spine with those and super cheap to throw together. Just go get a bag of bamboo garden stakes for like $8 and get 10+ arrows out of it.
I've bounced them off of rocks and they held up.
I do remember reading in the Ashby report that the wood shafts had better integrity (fewer broken arrows) than either carbon or aluminum during their testing.
I put the otter fur silencers at about 1/4 down the from the tips on the flemish twist string. It's nice! :bigsmyl: I was shocked when I plucked the string to hear how much those silencers worked. They aren't even that big. And they look cool.
pitchurs!!! :D
QuoteOriginally posted by fujimo:
pitchurs!!! :D
I shaved the bow down to 64 pounds over the past couple days. My goal was 60 but honestly I think it is pretty comfortable after taking some shots with it. My shots were all over the place at 20 yards, but it had nothing to do with the draw weight lol. Could have been shooting a 20 pound bow with the same results. Instinctive is a different animal!
There was a slight amount of twist that developed again taking it from 69 to 64, so I'll get rid of that, then put the Tru-oil on again and take some nice pictures.
Haven't had time to work on it since the last post, but wanted to get some quick opinions on the minor limb twist I referenced. Think it's okay to shoot as is? Maybe just file the "green arrow" string groove a hair deeper so the string sits more centered over the limb?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/25799e2a-e9ce-4f49-bb5b-872fc4b6695e_zpsg6z3q0am.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/25799e2a-e9ce-4f49-bb5b-872fc4b6695e_zpsg6z3q0am.jpg.html)
When doing a board bow, I always like to keep an outside caliper close at hand, just to make sure
Left and right are the same.
Just what works for me!
Very good work here, great bow :thumbsup:
Picture time!!! What do you think?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09232_zpsjnqjs5ra.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09232_zpsjnqjs5ra.jpg.html)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09262_zpswfyf5vbx.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09262_zpswfyf5vbx.jpg.html)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09264_zpszs8dfms6.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09264_zpszs8dfms6.jpg.html)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09234_zpsdci7yzwn.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09234_zpsdci7yzwn.jpg.html)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/DSC09242-2_zpsd9oiv1wh.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/DSC09242-2_zpsd9oiv1wh.jpg.html)
Looks nice :thumbsup:
Looks very nice.
A bow to be proud of!
:thumbsup:
Is she staying straight for ya?
I guess sometimes when the alignment is slightly off a bow will get trained and get straighter...sometimes if the alignment is a little off it gets worse.
wot they sed :D :thumbsup:
btw..
I like how you scraped the boo...just thru the skin in some places..little deeper than others.
I like the slightly rougher look it gives.
plus less worrying about going too deep..
Very nice for your first bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
btw..
I like how you scraped the boo...just thru the skin in some places..little deeper than others.
I like the slightly rougher look it gives.
plus less worrying about going too deep..
A lot of that look was in the leather dye. I dyed the whole bamboo backing with dark brown leather dye. Then I took OOOO steel wool and brushed between the nodes. It's smooth enough that you end up with a gradual color transition that looks darker in the nodes and lighter between. Also I didn't really sand the actual nodes, but I the entire length between each is pretty evenly sanded.
Nice bow man. How does it shoot?
Boy I wish I could work with ipe.
works good, it's cheap, looks nice...to bad it wants to "kill" me...lol
Shoots great. It's a different experience than a compound, that's for sure. The past parallel compound just sits still in your hand after the shot. This bow jumps more and has some hand shock, but it really isn't that bad or noticeable after shooting it a bit. It's also MUCH quieter than my compound. I thought it was loud initially shooting it in my room... Then I shot my compound in my room. Way Louder!!!
It'll take me a bit longer to get good with it obviously. I'm still waiting on my arrows to arrive, but I've been shooting my single 2117 arrow into my target maybe a dozen shots every day after work. I can hit the center dot just about every time from 5 yards. But at that distance it's pretty hard to miss lol. My bow muscles are adapting very quickly. The 64 pounds is becoming easier to draw, and I can hold it at full draw for maybe 5-10 seconds without quivering.
I read about some people getting reactions to ipe before I started and was going to wear gloves and a mask. Then I completely forgot and luckily I have no reaction to it!
:thumbsup:
Cool. Traditional is so much more fun then training wheels. Just came in from doing some more stump shooting out behind the house.
If you have the opportunity to shoot stumps on some land near you do it. I think you will find it addictive and that the constant unknown distances will help you learn a lot about shooting.
A lot of people wont shoot actual stumps, but I do it all the time with very little arrow lose due to damage. I have lost more from the arrow hitting a small twig and veering off on the way to the target then from actual breakage.
Here is the full how-to video I made while building this bow. Huge thanks to everyone who helped me out with the bow!!!
YOUTUBE VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xljOvsexlkg&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z124cvzjaz3mzri5x04ciluoglydcbgg4mk0k)
Nice job! You have a bow to be very proud of, thanks for taking the time to post your build.
-Jay
I put this bow through the chronograph today. With a 600.6 grain arrow I fired three shots: 174, 176, and 175 fps. The arrow is a little under 10gpp but I'm not too worried. I think it'll be more than enough for whitetail or black bear.
Also, I cut a shelf into the bow. I was just having too many issues getting the arrows to tune well shooting around the wide handle off the Bear weather rest, and the rest was really taking a beating. In addition I rounded the grip a little more and put a slight locator on it. Much more comfortable now. I put a little piece of primary wild turkey feather on the side of the shelf. It offers containment but flattens down as the arrow goes by.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j308/teenathlete3030/20150607_161315_HDR_zpswwotf6ia.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/teenathlete3030/media/20150607_161315_HDR_zpswwotf6ia.jpg.html)
Nice! :thumbsup:
Hi, great work on the tillering part. I am planning a bamboo backed r/d myself. Could you share the final dimensions of the bow - width, thickness (bamboo and belly) at handle, mid limb and tip.
Thanks.