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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 14, 2014, 08:49:00 PM

Title: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 14, 2014, 08:49:00 PM
Figured with Canopyboy happy with his trade bow I would start on a new form that Trux was very willing to share with me. I am in aw of his snub nose recurves he makes so I asked if he had a plan he would share. Well after shooting him my email I received a PDF file.

So to start I went to a local print shop and got some large prints made up. Came home and cut them out. I did not document that part because it was boring.

First thing was to make a template so I used a backer board for that.
   (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/E41866A3-CBB6-4F90-8831-5DF42DD3525D.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/E41866A3-CBB6-4F90-8831-5DF42DD3525D.jpg.html)

Well the entire template was hard to manipulate so I cut it down to be only a half template which I would turn over and copy for the other side.

   (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/000D8AA3-D370-4C07-A90E-B26679BD4B18.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/000D8AA3-D370-4C07-A90E-B26679BD4B18.jpg.html)

Next I traced the template on my LVL micro lam beam that will be the base of my form. I had issues with plywood screwed together with the winter so I figured this stuff should be more stable and stay straight. You want to cut close to your line to have a little less than 1/8 of an inch overhang. Continue until you have the form cut in half

  (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/FE2D1B31-71B4-4514-A2FF-68BC71291765.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/FE2D1B31-71B4-4514-A2FF-68BC71291765.jpg.html)

Next I screwed and counter sunk screws into the template to the LVL. Make sure everything is flat for your router

   (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/4CFA4711-613D-4F10-A55A-2D4E64BFB53B.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/4CFA4711-613D-4F10-A55A-2D4E64BFB53B.jpg.html)

You want to get a bit with a bearing at the top of it to ride against the template. Mine is not long enough so I go slow and drop the bit done about 1/4 an inch at a time. Go slow cuz this is where it can go to hell in a hand basket real quick.

  (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/7B73C725-6261-4FD3-96FB-7D022F400CBB.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/7B73C725-6261-4FD3-96FB-7D022F400CBB.jpg.html)
A little sanding and you will end up with a square and smooth form.

   (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/30C442B0-402C-4E88-AF60-FDBF07A0A0E6.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/30C442B0-402C-4E88-AF60-FDBF07A0A0E6.jpg.html)

Tomorrow I will continue on with this build!
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: timbermoose on June 14, 2014, 11:16:00 PM
:campfire:     :coffee:
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: rmorris on June 15, 2014, 01:37:00 AM
Very nice! Looking forward to seeing your first bow off this form
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: beachbowhunter on June 15, 2014, 01:57:00 AM
Did you sand to the line by hand on your template? That is the hard part for me. There are always imperfections. Are you doing a two piece form?
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Will Cocke 2 on June 15, 2014, 02:09:00 AM
Great post!!!

Has anybody ever used a table mounted router with flush trim bit to follow the template of your form?  Seems like it would be a super accurate way to go. With your bit being perfectly square to the table.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bigbob2 on June 15, 2014, 03:58:00 AM
Yep did that with Kennym's template for d/f works great.Only it wasn't table mounted but manual router.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: kennym on June 15, 2014, 08:03:00 AM
Nice job Justin!   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    

Norb, the only place needing sanding at all is where the 2 halves meet. If you run the shape on the template past center a bit, you can line the template up after flipping with the cut surface on the first half when screwing it down....

The only prob I ever had was operator error, letting the router tip any at all makes your form not square to side. Usually I just get a dip about 1/2" long, easy fix with bondo and a block tho.

A table mounted router would be really good as long as it is mounted securely with plenty of table to hold the long forms. Don't want it tipping and trying to catch stuff with the router running!!

I clamp my forms to the bench with the edge to be routed  off the edge to keep the bit out of it....
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: AkDan on June 15, 2014, 08:19:00 AM
good stuff!

Did you make a full template with that half template by flipping it?   Or are you routing with a half template than flipping?
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Troy D. Breeding on June 15, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
Looking good my friend!
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Robertfishes on June 15, 2014, 01:24:00 PM
Nice job, thanks for sharing the pics! I use a router table with a 2" bearing on end pattern bit. I can make a single pass on a 1 3/4" form. I can still get a little dip if I'm not carefull, if I find one I mix up a teaspoon of bondo and fill it in
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 15, 2014, 08:15:00 PM
So guys not as much work done on the form as I'd like. My dad asked for me to come over hang strapping and new Sheetrock ceiling. Took up my whole day. Anyhow got the bottom aluminum casing for the form all secured. It's 1/4 inch thick walls and exactly 1 3/4 inside so it was a snug fit. I need to go to my brothers shop this week and use his drill press to make some more progress so stay tuned!

 (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/66EF4FB8-139C-494C-BB7F-40A794627507.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/66EF4FB8-139C-494C-BB7F-40A794627507.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Roy from Pa on June 15, 2014, 08:28:00 PM
Looks nice, Justin.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Trux Turning on June 15, 2014, 11:31:00 PM
Looks good Justin!
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: beachbowhunter on June 16, 2014, 01:24:00 AM
Kenny I meant making the template perfect before the router. I drew mine on the computer and had them laser cut out of plexiglas
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bjansen on June 16, 2014, 09:23:00 AM
Looking good.  Those are fun little bows.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 16, 2014, 01:49:00 PM
Little more work today... As many of you do I spread some bondo all over the face of the form. I let it cure completely and then sand the entire form smooth and square checking the entire form with a square. Looks good!

  (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/36D544F8-AB57-43FB-A415-F3D325C6BA31.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/36D544F8-AB57-43FB-A415-F3D325C6BA31.jpg.html)

I'm don't have the steadiest hands out there so the router isn't my go to power tool.

Next I smoothed out the side support for the top of the form and mounted them. This is what they look like...

  (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/C27F7BE9-9CC6-4698-AE65-CB63517E4A85.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/C27F7BE9-9CC6-4698-AE65-CB63517E4A85.jpg.html)

And this is what it will look like once the holes are drilled out this week.

  (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/D46052C0-1D0E-43A2-ADC5-2F0480863F70.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/D46052C0-1D0E-43A2-ADC5-2F0480863F70.jpg.html)

Just waiting for the top piece of aluminum to get some channels cut. I forgot to add in the 1 1/4 inch that would need to be cut from the top half to allow room for the air hose. Most of the time I can slide the top form away from the top but not with this little recurve. So no I will wait till tomorrow when I get the piece back and then we can move on.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Mad Max on June 16, 2014, 07:34:00 PM
Get those lam's out,  
let's go
let's go
let's go
  :p    :D
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 16, 2014, 08:37:00 PM
Guys I guess I didn't see your questions. I only use a half template but make sure that I extend the template by an inch past center. This way when I flipped it it matched up to the other side and didn't cause any imperfection. Well until I wasn't square with the manual router and dug in a little which I took care of the face with some bondo as seen above.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Kopper1013 on June 16, 2014, 09:18:00 PM
How did you do the template? Did you just sand it down to your pencil marks or did you do something special to keep you template perfect for the router?
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 16, 2014, 09:44:00 PM
I just used my rigid sander to get to the lines and then hand sanded it until it was nice and smooth. It took about a half hour but came out really fluid.
Sanding is just a game of patience.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Kopper1013 on June 16, 2014, 09:56:00 PM
Ok great, thanks! Gonna have to keep this build along in mind when get my LVL
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: polarbearforge on June 16, 2014, 10:18:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by beachbowhunter:
Kenny I meant making the template perfect before the router. I drew mine on the computer and had them laser cut out of plexiglas
That's how I made my template.  I am following the kit from Bingham's.  I took the pattern and glued it to a piece of hardboard.  I took it to work and scanned it in.  I cleaned it up, mirrored it and cut it out of 12g steel.  I used that for a template to route out my form.  That's about all the further I am in the project.

Jamie
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Mad Max on June 16, 2014, 11:29:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by polarbearforge:
 
QuoteOriginally posted by beachbowhunter:
Kenny I meant making the template perfect before the router. I drew mine on the computer and had them laser cut out of plexiglas
That's how I made my template.  I am following the kit from Bingham's.  I took the pattern and glued it to a piece of hardboard.  I took it to work and scanned it in.  I cleaned it up, mirrored it and cut it out of 12g steel.  I used that for a template to route out my form.  That's about all the further I am in the project.

Jamie [/b]
change the subject some,  for a recurve limb
If I have 1/4" plexiglas and laser cut 2 pieces   1-1/2" wild about 24" long, then stack and glue them in the limb area of the form. then I would have a template for limb taper (width) on the robo sander.  the template would fit the curve (reflex) of the limb
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Robertfishes on June 17, 2014, 08:28:00 AM
B..43. How thin is your form top piece? You may want to add a piece of U-channel to the top and run your hold down bolts thru it.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 17, 2014, 10:15:00 AM
Yes robofish lol.... I have the same as the bottom it just extends past where the air hose would stick out. I just have no way to cut metal.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Spurs on June 17, 2014, 12:48:00 PM
What did you do to prepare the lvl?  I have some, and cant seem to find any the right thickness, or without some sort of concave in it.  That looks much better than what I have seen.  Did you drum sand it first?
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Robertfishes on June 17, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
Perfect, thats a curvey form that will really put pressure on the thin spots! You can cut 1/4" aluminum with a skill saw..use a thin plywood blade 8tpi and lube the blade with either wax or WD40, the aluminum will stick to blade if not lubed..cut outside to keep oil and wax out of your bow shop.. I have a 10" mitersaw/chopsaw and a sawsall that are my first choices. Of course a hacksaw would work too.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 17, 2014, 01:21:00 PM
Spurs when I purchased this LVL it came in 1.75 inch width which is perfect for this recurve form. When I make my longbow forms I have someone plane it down to 1.5 inch wide. I also am out there when they are cutting the piece I need from the 20+ long beams. I tell them what I am looking for and what it is used for. The guy that helps me has no problem helping me sort through the beams until I find a straight one... then he takes the chain saw to it and always gives me a foot on either side of my total length for room.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on June 18, 2014, 01:31:00 PM
Well today I got my top piece of aluminum back from being cut. It is in place and tomorrow I will finish it up

 (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/15959455-1B40-49A6-972F-548B0A0086D8.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/15959455-1B40-49A6-972F-548B0A0086D8.jpg.html)

Here's where I got it cut... It hung over a quarter inch or so
 (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/0EC4ED22-1A3C-4DA5-BBD7-EFC946978EC7.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/0EC4ED22-1A3C-4DA5-BBD7-EFC946978EC7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Spurs on June 24, 2014, 02:53:00 PM
Thanks for the info.  Great job!!
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: kennym on June 24, 2014, 07:25:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by beachbowhunter:
Kenny I meant making the template perfect before the router. I drew mine on the computer and had them laser cut out of plexiglas
I did a handsanded template and built a couple bows to see how I liked em, then had a bud CAD the radii and cut me a 1/4" steel master template with a waterjet setup. Then you can make all the 1/4" plywood templates you want that match it exactly....
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: beachbowhunter on June 25, 2014, 01:31:00 AM
Great minds think alike....or something like that.    :smileystooges:
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on July 05, 2015, 02:15:00 PM
So I have been working on this bow and form for some time. I have smoothed all the imperfections out of it and then used some filler. Resanded the entire form and now she is slick. Had to build a new top with wider ends because the first top broke due to the pressure in the hose.

Here she is now....
 (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/25E9B654-8EF8-4632-8F78-9D1818323873.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/25E9B654-8EF8-4632-8F78-9D1818323873.jpg.html)

The form now has no issues holding under pressure.

My only issues is that I cut the form to have a 1.25 gap like you normally would between the top and bottom of the form. The area at the fades will not close up at all under pressure.

My question is can I drop the top of the form down some so that I can close up the gap.

This is the fade area under 70 psi....
 (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/F74AE5B4-E8B8-49A8-AF28-7C57372ACE54.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/F74AE5B4-E8B8-49A8-AF28-7C57372ACE54.jpg.html)

What do you guys think about being able to close the gap???
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: beachbowhunter on July 05, 2015, 02:22:00 PM
Can you change the shape of your riser block fades?
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on July 05, 2015, 04:02:00 PM
I probably could if I started the riser all over. Was hoping I could still get this one to fit but looking like not so much....
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Trux Turning on July 05, 2015, 04:05:00 PM
I'd put some wedges in between the hose and the top of the form in that area- I've had good luck using dowels- I've got a selection of various sizes for those types of situations
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Trux Turning on July 05, 2015, 04:55:00 PM
Here's a reference picture for you-
(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll259/truxturning/Pirate%20trade%20bow%202011/PirateTradeBow2011015.jpg)
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on July 05, 2015, 05:44:00 PM
Nice Trux I will try that prior to starting the riser over again... Thanks bud!
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on July 05, 2015, 05:45:00 PM
I have some rubber bands as well I will try and pull those fades in close prior to putting the dowels in. That may help with getting the fades to close up a bit.

Always learning new tricks
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 07:22:00 PM
glue more wood to the form above the hose.

1/2" to 3/4" gap in that area, dry run as many times as it takes
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on July 06, 2015, 12:54:00 PM
So I tried the dowel trick today without any luck... So I just ordered up a new riser block. I have the general concept of how to shape the riser so I will start again later this week. Stay tuned
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Robertfishes on July 06, 2015, 01:25:00 PM
You could add some wood blocks or wood strips to the top of form to make up the gap.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Mad Max on July 06, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Robertfishes:
You could add some wood blocks or wood strips to the top of form to make up the gap.
That's what I said, kind of
Adding wood to your form is the way to go
I do it when needed
I think other people do to.
Riser block cost money
scrap wood is free
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: Trux Turning on July 06, 2015, 05:52:00 PM
Try adding wood to the top of the form above the rise and fades.
Title: Re: Short Recurve Build
Post by: monterey on July 06, 2015, 06:23:00 PM
Or alter it to a rubber band form. Solves the immediate problem and allows variations in the riser on future builds