I'll go ahead and reserve this spot..
I just placed an order with BigJim for a quart of Smooth On, a couple of .001 and .002 tapered lams with .125 butts to use as tapered lam sleds, and a couple of clear glass sticks in .040..
Can't wait for the shipment to arrive so I can get started!!
well be watching...bring it on!! :)
I'm excited about it. I've learned a lot breaking boards and laminating firewood, so I can safely say I have high hopes for this one. Here's my plan. I'm going at this as a complete newbie so if you guys see any errors here please chime in.
Total Stack .376
Back to belly
.040 glass
.074 parallel (walnut)
.074 taper .002 (walnut)
Riser (Afromsia/Pecan)
.074 taper .001 (walnut)
.074 parallel (pecan)
.040 clear glass
I may put a strip on the back of the handle and may also put a pecan power lam. Haven't decided yet.
I used the Kenny plans for a reference for stack thickness. I plan to taper the limb width from 1.5 to .5 starting about 10-12 inches from the end of the fades. I'm hoping for ~55 lbs @ 28.
Oh yeah forgot. Length will be 64" ntn.
This is a great place to receive a wealth of insight and direction which has saved me a lot of pain and added a great deal of success to my bow building habit.
Be careful working with that walnut. I did some finish sanding on a Walnut riser about two weeks ago without a mask on. Been on an inhaler for a week and a half now.
QuoteOriginally posted by EHK:
Be careful working with that walnut. I did some finish sanding on a Walnut riser about two weeks ago without a mask on. Been on an inhaler for a week and a half now.
I think I read that thread. Good advice and thank you. I have to wear a respirator even if it's just pine I'm sanding. I use an inhaler almost every day because i have asthma. A respirator is a good practice no matter what.
Most people don't realize how important being able to breathe is until they all of a sudden can't do it!
You will get better working taper all the way to the fades.
Ya, I would start the taper from 12 inches out from the center of the bow.
Thanks guys. I'll keep that in mind.
Quick question guys. ..
I got my shipment in from Big Jim yesterday (awesome and insanely fast may I say).I was going over my plan in my mind and if my calculations are correct...i may have a problem. If I make a .002 taper with a butt thickness of .074, at 36 inches long I'm looking at a thin end of just .002 inches. I don't think I can get that thin without eating into my precious new factory sled. My question is..would it make more sense to just make a .003 taper with a .148 butt thickness and get rid of the .074 thick .001 and .002 tapers? The only difference that would make for my design that I can see is that instead of a back - parallel - taper - riser - taper - parallel - belly it would have instead a back - parallel - taper - riser - parallel - belly configuration.
Would this change my final design target in any way?
where it makes a difference for me- (only having built 4 glass bows now!! so take this from whence it comes :D )
is if you are trying to get the butt end of the taper to go up the curved suface of the riser ramp.
and if it is on the back , then you have to sand and match the lams to the riser back well to avoid gaps-just what i learn in a hurry.
what i did with my kenny m bows, was to put the oo2 taper on the back- and sand the riser to get a good fit, then the oo1 and the other // going up the ramp. with the 001 being closer to being // its easier to sand it thin enough that the butt is nice and thin and flexible.
just me- may be way over thinking things here- were are the experienced hands at this??
Ice Mike, little confused. Why are you running your tapers on a,sled.
Aren't they already to go?
Make the .002 a bit thicker and the .001 thinner.
DON'T eat the new sled!!
Or if you are set on .074 for the .002, figure how much you will cut off to lay up the bow and cut em, then move the tapers to the rear of the sled and flush there.(If you grind with the thick end in first)
6" cut off will give you an extra .012" at thin end.....
Thanks for the advice Kenny!!
@macbow..I just bought the factory tapers to use as a sled to grind my own tapered lams. I've got a thing for as much DIY as I can..
Well, after a long day I got my hot box built and my tapers ground. It's buttered up with some smooth on and sitting in the oven now, I will be unplugging it in about 2-3 more hours.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140526_110743.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140526_110752.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140526_162452.jpg)
WTH????!!!!
I pulled it out of the box after 4 hours. Smooth on was hard as a rock so it should have cured fine. I let it cool to room temperature (took about an hour and a half) and started taking clamps off. I had the form taped up pretty good before I started si it popped out pretty easily. Started taking the masking tape off of the clear glass to see what the wood looked like through it and found THIS!!!
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140526_202134.jpg)
First question..Why in heck would it just crack like that? Bad piece of glass?
Second question..Can it be fixed? I'm not 100% sure if it's a crack all the way through the glass or not because I can't see the side of the lam due to the squeezed out epoxy, but once I sand it down I can tell more.
I'd sure hate to lose my first glass bow before I even get to taper the limbs!!
maybe just a scratch?
I would expect to see a little glue if it were a crack???
Did you use rubber, or cork on those pressure strips?
I used rubber breazy.
Let's say it is a scratch. That's just cosmetic and I can fix that.
But what if it is a crack all the way through the glass? Can that be fixed or is it just toast? Also, what could I have possibly done to make that happen? Could it have possibly been there before and I just didn't notice it? I'm like breazy..i think I would have seen some glue come up through it right? Could it have happened in the heat box? It's going to drive me nuts as I left at 4:30 this morning to go out of town and I won't be able to get back and sand the epoxy on the sides down until Friday to find out for sure how bad it is, but I'd like to have a plan in mind either way.
I highly doubt it's a crack across the fibers like that without seem some other evidence, torn fibers or tension and compression failure in the surrounding fibers, is it on the inside or outside of a radius, on the outside there would be a gap for sure. . Some times you can lift a sliver on the tapers when sanding etc. but that will run straight with the grain into the bow, this is not that.
I'm with breazy, My guess it's a scratch
Use a magnifying glass. If it's a thru-crack you should be able to see the edges of the crack under enlargement. Doesn't look like a crack to me.
To answer your question. If its a crack (witch it doesn't look like) than I would say its toast.
Where on the limb is it? Is it close to the riser, on the riser, close to the tip???
QuoteOriginally posted by breazyears:
To answer your question. If its a crack (witch it doesn't look like) than I would say its toast.
Where on the limb is it? Is it close to the riser, on the riser, close to the tip???
It's about 3 inches past the fade.
Here's a few pics of it after I popped it out of the form last night.
I'll clean it up and cut the limb width tapers thursday or friday when I get back from Fort Polk.
Belly of bow
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/download_20140527_194007.jpeg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/download_20140527_194018.jpeg)
Back of bow..
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/download_20140527_194004.jpeg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/download_20140527_194015.jpeg)
If it is a crack you can feel it by scratching across it with your fingernail , but that method does not rule out a surface scratch. When you cut out your limb profile take a look at the scrap piece your cut off and bend it to see if it snaps. Looking at the direction is could be a glass fiber from the edge of the glass that got tucked under during glue up, if that is the case it is only cosmetic.
Also there are some other options if it is a crack, depending on its location on the limb ( closer to the tips) you will more than likely cut it away anyways, if you are closer to the fade outs then you can offset the centerline of that bow so you cut more off that side then the good side. Other then that it looks awesome and I bet you will walk away with a shooter!
I got home this evening and couldn't stand waiting any longer to see if it was a crack or a scratch. After some cleaning up, it looks like it's just a scratch so I think I'm good. I figured since I had gone that far, I might as well get it cleaned up and go ahead and cut the limb width tapers.. Not looking too bad so far. I'll see what it looks like under a load on the tiller tree maybe tomorrow or friday.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140528_202003.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140528_202036.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140528_202048.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140528_202102.jpg)
Looking good scratch and all! That will disappear once you apply some finish.
QuoteOriginally posted by rmorris:
Also there are some other options if it is a crack, depending on its location on the limb ( closer to the tips) you will more than likely cut it away anyways, if you are closer to the fade outs then you can offset the centerline of that bow so you cut more off that side then the good side. Other then that it looks awesome and I bet you will walk away with a shooter!
Thank you for the advice and the encouragement!!
I've got a question. I noticed while I was sanding down the profile that the glass fibers would roll off as I was going. That got me worried that squared off edges on the fiberglass might not be such a great idea. They are sharp already and have the perfect opportunity to to bury one of those fibers in my hand.
My question is, should I round off the edges of the glass with some fine grit paper to take care of that, or is there a better method?
Looks good Mike. Grinding your own tapers for your first is a brave step in my opinion. Looks like you pulled it off well. You should be able to round those edges no problem but that advice comes from a rookie. :) Those little fibers are nasty.
Best way to round the corners is one of the 4x8 sanding blocks with the handle and foam under the sandpaper. I typically start with a 120 grit on the edges and work down to a finer grit to the point it is smooth to the touch. Also try not to bend the limbs too much if the edges are not completely sanded because one stray piece of glass can turn into a large problem.
Got it rmorris! Thank you very much for that advice because I was just going to go put it on the tillering tree and see if the weight was where I wanted it. I'm glad I read this before I did that!!
How's it going?
QuoteOriginally posted by breazyears:
How's it going?
Been busy the last couple days man. Trying to get moved.
I did get the bow on the tree and one limb is a little stiffer than the other. I pulled it slowly to 28" and it registered 40 pounds on the scale. Not quite what I was looking for but it will make a good bow for my younger son.
A question on the stiffer limb..how do you correct that with tillering on glass bows? Do I just make the width taper on the stiffer limb go back further toward the fades?
I'd really look close and measure carefully to see if there is any difference in width etc.
Maybe one limb working length is a little different?
QuoteOriginally posted by macbow:
I'd really look close and measure carefully to see if there is any difference in width etc.
Maybe one limb working length is a little different?
I think that my form may have a tad bit more reflex on one side over the other. I didn't use a half template when I made it. I just measured and drew the whole curve. The measurements on taper and working length all check out, but like I said, the reflex is more pronounced on one side over the other.
Can anybody offer some advice on fixing it?
Also, since it came in under weight, I was thinking about taking an inch off of each end and making it 62" ntn instead of 64" to bring the weight back up. Should I do that before I try to fix the stiffer limb or get it bending perfect then shorten it?
Not sure what to tell ya about the reflex but you will want to chop it before you adjust anything else .
I would do the piking, while doing that maybe offsetting a little will help with timing of the limbs?
When ya get a chance show us some pictures.
Ok here is a few pics..
At rest, you can tell one limbs has a little bit more reflex than the other..
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140601_082426.jpg)
At full brace, the tiller is positive about a 1/4"...
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140601_095249.jpg)
At full draw, it doesn't look quite so bad, but still stiffer...
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140601_095324.jpg)
I shortened it to 61.5" ntn and it's pulling 48 lbs at 28" now, which is good enough. I'm just a little worried about the stiff limb..Any ideas?
Here's a trick that Roy used on a pic of my last tri-lam. If I'm doing this correctly, the drawing shows it to be positive as well.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/ScreenShot2014-06-01at101010AM.png)
I did some cleaning up on it and added an accent (pecan and afromosia) on the back of the handle section. I added tip overlays (pecan and cocobola)and filed in the nocks adjusting a little for the stiffer limb. The tiller is still positive between an 1/8" and 1/4". I decided to cut in a shelf and carve just enough of the handle section to make it not dig into my hand while I put a few arrows through it..I'm thoroughly impressed!! This thing shoots hard and fast!! Straight consistent arrow flight and it doesn't seem as though the positive tiller hurts it a bit. As a matter of fact, I think that because I shoot 3 under it may have even helped a little..Anyway..
It's not as pretty as some I've seen here, but it's a respectable first attempt at glass work..
I cut a handle extension and got it sitting in the oven now. When I get back from out of town I will finish carving the handle section and get it ready for finish.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140602_174251.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140602_174346.jpg)
Looking good! Have ya put any arrows down range?
Yessir! Fired about 25-30 shots. Shot like a dream! Hard. Fast, and super quiet. I couldn't believe how quiet it was even without a silencer in the string. No twang. Just a whisper!!
Great Job! Isn't that amazing to be able to build a bow and have it spit out an arrow! Thanks for taking the time to share the experience with all the photos.
Thanks shoot! I'll post a final set of pics when I get back home and finish shaping the handle section and put a few clear coats on it.
I guess it's Ok.. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
I guess it's Ok.. :)
LOL!!!
From you Roy, I'll take that as a HUGE compliment!!
Mike, if you want to fix the tiller, a little sanding on the bell side of the bottom limb will correct that and won't hurt a thing.
it is common for things to get out a little as there are no perfect materials. A little discrepancy here..a little there and it all adds up.
Sand evenly from riser to tip (no need in sanding over nock groove) Check frequently and stop between 0 and +1/8" at top.
Don't worry, as it won't hurt a thing but it will cost you a lb or maybe 2. Every bowyer does it as necessary.
good job!
bigjim
Awesome! Thank for the advice BigJim. I really appreciate it!
I have a question if you don't mind. When I shot the bow as is the other day, I noticed very little hand shock..zero noise, and near perfect arrow flight. Do you think it would hurt more than it would help trying to get it to a perfect oval, or do you think leaving it as is would shorten the life of the bow? Thanks in advance.
I think I'm just about done on this one. This is by far the best shooting, and best looking bow I have made to date.I know it still has an "amateur" quality to it..but I'm proud of it nonetheless..
I finished the handle section and sanded it out. I shot it for an hour or so and had a blast.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/2014-06-08%2015.18.13.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140608_142617.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140608_142642.jpg)
After I had my fun I went ahead and put 3 coats or clear gloss poly on it. When it dries good, I'll sand it again and put 3 coats of satin on it and call it done!
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140608_150556.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140608_150618.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140608_150636.jpg)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k620/bmbrady77/Fiberglass%20bow/20140608_150651.jpg)
Here a quick video of a couple test shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEdYSfeYT6w&feature=youtu.be
Good looking bow and a good shooter, too. Nice work :thumbsup:
Thanks takefive!
It's ok I guess.. :)
Lol!! Thanks Mr Roy!
Hey at least I used clear glass on both sides so it at least LOOKS like an all wood bow! Lmao!!
Looks great! Its always fun to have your first one in the bag. Watch out though because this addiction can get pretty expensive. I don't even want to guess what my material bill will be for my next bow.
Guess it was a scratch... nice bow.
Great looking bow! Looks like it shoots good and is very quiet from the video. Nice job!
Yeah breazy it was a scratch. Thanks guys for the props. I had a blast on this one and still have something to show for the work. I love the tillering process on the all woods but I don't have access to good wood for a quality product. This method is not idiot proof but it is forgiving so I think I'll stick with glass for a bit. Besides, I think I prefer a method that calls it "wood with character" rather than "grain violated junk" lol (no offense Roy)!
That turned out well. I wonder why more people don't use walnut veneers. It's pretty.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sam Harper:
That turned out well. I wonder why more people don't use walnut veneers. It's pretty.
Thanks Sam!
I only used it because it was the prettiest of what I had. I think it looks nice also. I will be using it again but I want to get creative and mix it with some other wood to make some really interesting veneers.
I also want to say as a side note..
Thank you for your web site and all the information that you give freely. Your free information is one of the main things that inspired me to start building bows and I couldn't have gotten started without your tutorials..again..THANK YOU!!
You're welcome. I'm glad it helped.