Hey guys! Again, thanks for having me and for the warm welcomes! So, I have some familiarity with wood working, not to much, but enough to know that it takes a lot of patience and such. i will admit, though, that most of my experience is with power tools. In any case, as stated in the subject line, I want to get into bow making. I am a bit on a budget, and will probably have to collect stuff piece by piece before I can truly get started. but I am in no hurry, and this will give me plenty of time to read some threads on the subject and better prepare myself for what's going to happen.
I've watched a few you tube videos and I figure that a self bow is a good place to start.
In any case, and onto the purpose of the thread, I figured a great place to start my line of questioning is, what do I need tool-wise? I know that I'm probably going to need a draw blade and some calipers, but what else? Is something like a jig saw, router, or a scroll saw ever truly useful in bow making? (not figuring power tools are really useful for this except in possibly buffing a lacquer finish if you even do that to a bow...)
Thanks for any and all replies!
A band saw and a drum sander of some type or a belt sander.
No, those kinds of handheld power tools won't do you much good at all. I have em all and never use them.
Chainsaw.
Bandsaw.
Drawknife.
GOOD rasps. I like the Nicholson #49.... with the #50 a second favorite.
Cabinet scrapers.
Sandpaper.
Bandsaw is optional if you have a good handaxe/hatchet and know how to use it.
Those are the tools I use for the vast majority of my bowmaking... though I have to admit... I've aquired and made a bunch of tools since I started :^)
Tool number 1..... Traditional bowyers bible vol 1 (through 4 if ya can swing it) after that... Drawknife, cabinet scraper, rasp. All ya need. If youre cutting your own staves a chainsaw, axe, wedgea, hatchet. Bandsaw is great. Belt/disc/spindle sander gets alot of use if ya got it.
Wedges... Not wedgea
I've considered books, but time is an issue in my life and I'm a slow reader at that. Its not that I don't want to read them, but just to build the bows I'm going to have to schedule every hour or so a week or two in advance, just for the wife never mind work. I will buy the book and try to read it, but like in my limited luthier experience, I mainly rely on forums and you tube for quick answers and trial and error. BTW, will I need some kind of calibrated scale to measure the pounds on the bow's draw?
Scale would not hurt.
OK, and I've noticed that Nicholson was a brand of rasps mentioned. What specific rasps should I buy, and which brands are well worthy of the task? Just the 49 and 50, or should I get others? I'd rather buy the right ones once than the wrong ones many times, lol. been there done that. Are there any other brands I should be looking into?
And what about chisels? Useful or not? again, brand?
And as far as draw blades / draw knives, is it better to go with straight, curved, or one of each for this application?
If you don't have time to read books I would suggest a DVD. For getting started with the basics "Rattlestick" by Gary Davis is well worth the 20-25 bucks.
Depends on whether you're going to tackle board bows or stave bows. For stave bows that chainsaw, hatchet, draw knife, rasps and belt sander top the list.
For board bows a bandsaw, belt sander, rasps and sanding blocks are my go to tools.
The single best place for beginner information, IMHO is www.poorfolkbows.com (http://www.poorfolkbows.com) He show you how to build several kinds of simple, realtively easy bows and get experience. TraGang is a *great* place, but sometimes sorting through conflicting opinions of contributors can be hard.
There's alot to learn about making wood bows. You can learn alot on this forum. But im telling you... That book is the best 20 bucks youll ever spend. I WISH i had took the time to read it BEFORE i started whittling. I might would have less bows ill never shoot.
I'm not really sure of the difference in stave bows and board bows...I'll take a look at that link. As far as belt sanders go, are the hand held ones ok for this or does it have to be the stationary ones?
Nicholson 49 is all ya need. 50 wouldnt hurt to have but can definitely live without it. I do use a small chisel from time to time working around knots... But i use it in a scraping manner. i like a stationary sander better than handheld... Find its more precise to bring the wood to the sander than vice versa. I just got a rigid edge belt/spindle combo sander that i can already tell will pretty much make my belt/disc combo collect more dust than it makes. Farriers rasp is great to have but it cant replace the #49.
A stave bow is made from a tree not milled lumber, and you use a single growth ring for the back... Where a board bow is usually quarter or rift sawn
I like the Nicholson rasp as well, but I suggest a farrier's rasp, too.
The drawknife can be whatever you prefer or can get.
A belt/disc sander is nice to have, but IMHO you don't really need one to get started making stave or board bows unless you want to make laminated wood bows right off the bat. You can get by with the hand tools the others have mentioned until you decide if you're really into it. The only part of the process that I refuse to do by hand is cutting the bow's profile. I use a table saw for that now and before that just used a Skil (circular) saw. I have a heavy duty hand held jigsaw that I use for cutting the shape of the handle. A bandsaw would be nice to have I s'pose, but I've been able to get by without one. I use a $20 Shinto saw rasp. I'd buy a Nicholson, but I've heard that their quality has suffered since they're no longer made in the USA. You'll need a nock file, and a digital calipers and Gizmo (do a search on here if you're not familiar with it) really help with tillering. The very first thing I would do is read up on here or wherever on choosing good bow wood and what to look for as far as the grain of the wood goes.
pencil
straight edge
Draw knife
Rasp
half round file
round file <1/4"
scraper
sandpaper
beer
My first 20 or so bows were made with a hatchet, a Surform rasp, and a butcher knife. I have mad e a lot of bows with just the hatchet. Point being, you don't need a whole lot to get going.
That said, a good 8-10" drawknife, a good farrier's rasp or Nicholson pattern makers rasp, a Bahco cabinet scraper, and a small diameter round file for nocks will help you a lot.
As you have found, there are dozen's of buildalongs here and other places to help you get started.
The prime directive is get good wood. Trying to make selfbows with marginal wood is an exercise in frustration and heartbreak.
Here's my website: http://sticknstring.webs.com/
Start with "Ferret's Board Bow". If you want to make osage bows or other stave bows, start with "Roughout".
Here's my tillering tute: http://hedgerowselfbows.webs.com/fromblanktobow.htm
The stave bow seems simpler to me from what I can tell. Is one way really better then the other?
"better" is in the eye... err... hand of the archer. ;)
A straight unbacked board bow is simpler and quicker to make than a stave bow. You have a straight, flat, and knot free piece of wood to begin with. You'll probably want to glue a handle to it, but that's pretty simple, too. Just a few C clamps and Titebond 3 glue. On the other hand, if a stave appeals to you more, by all means go for it. If you have questions along the way, someone here will be glad to answer 'em.
QuoteOriginally posted by LittleBen:
pencil
straight edge
Draw knife
Rasp
half round file
round file <1/4"
scraper
sandpaper
beer
Will red wine work as a replacement for the last tool. Type 2 here and beer is not friendly towards my blood sugar! :deadhorse: I do have a promising Pinot Noir in the fridge that needs to get drunk. might make a night of it and that bowyer book!
Yep - red wine will work just fine. I'm a "dry white" man myself.
As TakeFive sez, a board bow is simpler to execute and readily give you good results. Stave bows take more of an "eye" and different skills.
I love to read.
My first book was Mark Twain's "Tom Sawyer".
What a great book and the first of many.
These days I like westerns and spy novels. Just for the pure enjoyment.
Then there are my archery books.
A well written book like Torges' "Hunting the Osage Bow" or Comstock's brilliantly simple "The Bent Stick" will help you get started.
I don't think the internet can replace books but what do I know.
Enjoy bow building. I don't think I could have built hundreds of wooden bows without consulting my books particularly since I started before Al Gore invented the internet and human caused global warming. :)
Just in case ...
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
I do urge you to start with Comstock's book.
My books are my greatest tools.
Jawge
I concur with Jawge... I love my books and injesting the knowledge within. I generally prefer them to the internet. I'm a chain-reader and currently have 10 or more lined up to read. I just can't seem to quit buying them.
Dean's book, HOB, is my favorite regarding selfbows and I've read it numerous times.
No more beer for me since I found out I'm allergic to gluten. It's rum nowadays. I like a good dry wine too.
Twangy you can go very simple or high tec.
There is only 3 thing you really need once you have a stave.
A draw knife a rasp or wood file and a scraper is all your really need.
Or some sharp rocks
I just started building bows myself about a year ago. I use a Nicholson rasp, a farrier's rasp, a small round nock file, jig saw, clamps, and sand paper. I think a vice to hold the bow is also very helpful but not needed.
I have only made board bows so far and agree with John it is very important to select a proper board.
As for books, Comstock's "The Bent Stick" is excellent.
robyn is right a vice, bow vice or shave horse. is very useful.
OK, I caved...I bought Comstock's book for $20 on Amazon. At this point I plan on purchasing and reading all four Bowyer's Bible books as well before I start actually building. I'll need more wine...
I do have a question though, Does Cypress make a good bow wood? Living in FL it can be pretty easy to find in the wild.
volume one of TBB is more than enough for your first bow.
Get vol. 1, build bow, get vol 2-4, build more bows.
QuoteOriginally posted by LittleBen:
volume one of TBB is more than enough for your first bow.
Get vol. 1, build bow, get vol 2-4, build more bows.
yup. i been wanting to get the bent stick too, but tbb vol 1 teaches you all the basics you need to design and build a good bow.
X 3 on TBB vol. 1. Vol. 4 has so much info on the different bow woods and ideal moisture content plus the mass principle and heat treating, that you might want to skip over 2 and 3 for now. IMHO get vol. 1 and 4 ASAP.
There are a lot of different woods listed in TBB4's bow wood section, but cypress isn't one of them. Can't say that I've ever seen a cypress bow on any forum I read, but I've only been at this for a short time. Too bad you (and me, especially me :) ) don't live in osage country.
Twangy - where you at in FL? I'm in Ft Myers on the Gulf coast.
Cypress would probably make a good wood-glass bow, or perhaps a board bow. Especially if you can get you hands on some of the "recovered" cypress that is being sold. But I suspect it wouldn't be a good stave bow. In the first plce it takes a year per inch of thickness to dry down to normalized humidity.
It's not legal to log cypress any more, but there are places where old logging operations left huge logs buried in the swamps, and they're bringing that wood back to the surface and drying it out; and it's fabulous. A dulcimer making friend near Lakeland has a source for recovered cypress that he's using for musical instruments -- some of that old growth is showing 75 or more growth rings per inch!!! Beautiful straight grain.
Twangy, I feel so bad for you at this point. You are already hooked my friend. LOL.. Expect to spend countless hours making bows now. There will be good times and there will be bad times. There will be failures and there will be shoot able bows coming out of your shop. Just enjoy the journey.. That's how we all progressed. So post pictures of your bows, and a lot of guys here will offer their advice.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
Twangy, I feel so bad for you at this point. You are already hooked my friend. LOL.. Expect to spend countless hours making bows now. There will be good times and there will be bad times. There will be failures and there will be shoot able bows coming out of your shop. Just enjoy the journey.. That's how we all progressed. So post pictures of your bows, and a lot of guys here will offer their advice.
It'll be a few months before I turn one out. As previously mentioned, I'm on a budget and I'm going to have to buy the materials and tools a little at a time. Hence to my caving to reading 5 books on tillery before I actually get started. Although, a lot of it, regaurding the wood selection, is probably very similar to choosing wood for guitar neck. Something dense with high strength and low pore count, 7% or less moisture content, free of knots if at all possible. I'll find out if I am off base or not when I get through all the books. But right now I'm thinking on trying to find some nice bird's eye rock maple and use that for a final product. In any case I expect my first 2-4 bows to be between utter crap and absolute failures, my next pair to be low pounds on the string (not sure of the term for this) and to be nothing more than useable, and the ones after that to start being decent with higher numbers of pounds. Eventually I want to get a bow with some really high poundage to get a lot of velocity through the bolt. ever see the Scorpoin King? Yeah, you know what I am talking about!
I do not know if I will continue to make bows for any real length of time, but I want to learn to do it and do it right as I am interested in bow hunting and bow fishing, I'm all about the DIY stuff and thoroughly enjoy it, I like to experience new things, and I figure that the ability to make good bows is a skill in which I can use to my advantage in the future, such as for trading, or even selling if I am in a bind. I'm not going to say that I am a SHTF type, but in any case I think this is going to be a great and useful skill to have. But I more want to get to eh point where I can just make a few good bows for my self and my family and friends. I'm hoping by Christmas I'll be able to turn out four really nice self bows to give to my parents and siblings as gifts. I'm also in the process of buying an old Treadle sewing machine as well so that I can learn the old fashion way to making military quality Gun, Bow, and Cross Bow bags, quivers, and the like out of heavy canvas and denier. Again, I just want the skill.
QuoteOriginally posted by KenH:
Twangy - where you at in FL? I'm in Ft Myers on the Gulf coast.
Cypress would probably make a good wood-glass bow, or perhaps a board bow. Especially if you can get you hands on some of the "recovered" cypress that is being sold. But I suspect it wouldn't be a good stave bow. In the first plce it takes a year per inch of thickness to dry down to normalized humidity.
It's not legal to log cypress any more, but there are places where old logging operations left huge logs buried in the swamps, and they're bringing that wood back to the surface and drying it out; and it's fabulous. A dulcimer making friend near Lakeland has a source for recovered cypress that he's using for musical instruments -- some of that old growth is showing 75 or more growth rings per inch!!! Beautiful straight grain.
I live just north of Tampa (NPR). That sounds pretty impressive on the growth rings... I would not mind getting a few pieces of that if the price is right!
You have the right idea as far as dense, straight grained, knot free wood goes. Rock maple is a good choice, but stay away from bird's eye or tiger. I have been told that pretty as they are, the figured wood is actually significantly weaker than the plain variety. Best MC for bow wood is 8-12%. I've seen some great looking, well tillered first bows posted on here. Mine wasn't, but yours could be. Good luck!
"I do not know if I will continue to make bows for any real length of time"
Hah! Good luck with that! Ya got no idea what youre getting in to here.... Its like crack.... or pringles.... Ya can't stop. Its a disease.
Tawangy any peacan or hickory in your area. If so there is your bow wood.
QuoteOriginally posted by KellyG:
Tawangy any peacan or hickory in your area. If so there is your bow wood.
I'll look into it.
I really haven't been able to find much in the Pecan or Hickory wood here, but I'm probably looking in all the wrong places. Anyone have any suggestions as to where I look? Most of my looking has been for lumber mills on google and I hit all dead ends. In any case, I still got time. I checked Amazon and "The Bent Stick" will arrive tomorrow by 8 PM. That bottle of wine beckons!
Let's see, if you're in the panhandle it's probobably not terribly far to somewhere that Osage grows and you can try and get some.
Then there's always red oak boards ... not great bow wood but it works.
also white oak, hard maple, hickory, pecan, Ipe (common for decking, would need a backing of hickory or bamboo)
http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/extension/florida_forestry_information/forest_resources/trees_of_florida_common_hardwoods.html
here is a resource for the hardoowds typical in florida forests. http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/extension/florida_forestry_information/forest_resources/trees_of_florida_common_hardwoods.html
any of the oaks, maple, hickory, flowering dogwood, holly, birch, beech, hophornbeam, Eastern red Cedar, the elms, ash, and probably many others are all suitable for bows. Some would just need to be wider than others.
Google "bow woods list" and you can find a thread on another forum which is all the bow wood information from TBB vol I and IV. Hope that all helps some.
Thanks a ton. that will help me pinpoint a few woods I can use. Central FL. not the panhandle, BTW. But I guess my question was more to the nature of where to procure the woods more than what woods to procure.
You could check the big box stores (Lowes, Home Depot) to see if they have hickory boards. The ones in my area only carry red oak, but that might just be a regional thing. O/w you can make a good bow from red oak if you find a good board and make it wide and long enough.
There is a red oak board bow buildalong on my site. You can rip the straight grained, knot free board to 1 3/8" for 45# if you do your work.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/boardbowbuildalong.html
Jawge
QuoteOriginally posted by takefive:
You could check the big box stores (Lowes, Home Depot) to see if they have hickory boards. The ones in my area only carry red oak, but that might just be a regional thing. O/w you can make a good bow from red oak if you find a good board and make it wide and long enough.
I know that ours has maple, cherry, and poplar. I was thinking of doing a few maple board bows backed with cherry.
As long as it's hard maple, not the soft type, you could use it alone for your bow if it's a good board. Cherry is tension weak so I wouldn't use it as a backer. O/w backing the cherry with maple would be a better combo IMHO. I made a hickory backed cherry board bow and the cherry fretted badly. MIght have turned out better if I'd made it wider and made the backer thinner. One of TBB's shows a cherry board bow that turned out to be a great shooter, but those guys have tillered thousands of bows. On the flip side, I've seen quite a few hard maple bows and the guys who made 'em rave about the qualities of that wood.
General rule:
Only very straight grained boards.
Buy the densest board that has the required grain.
Hickory > oak > maple > cherry/poplar.
An oak board will work just fine. Also hard maple, but I'd take oak over maple.
They may have oak, I'll have to check next time I'm in there.
4est trekker has a nice build along for a board bow- with glued on tips- nice looking style of bow- and very simple- georges site has tons of info!
QuoteOriginally posted by Twangy:
They may have oak, I'll have to check next time I'm in there.
For my first few bows, I really am going to take a cheap route. No sense blowing money on really nice pieces of wood just to screw it up or make a sub-par bow. Once I get comfortable, I'll make some "real" bows.
My first book arrived today. I'm slotting some time on Friday to read it. I'll let you know what I think.