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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: timbermoose on November 18, 2013, 09:24:00 PM

Title: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: timbermoose on November 18, 2013, 09:24:00 PM
friend of mine is getting back into building laminate longbows, going with r/d design instead of the "trusty" hill style he used to make. which do you guys prefer for the press? air hose or clamp method? what is your reasoning behind it?
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: timbermoose on November 18, 2013, 09:26:00 PM
forgot to add, he used to use the bike tube method, but is tired of getting new tubing every time he makes a bow. I'm a selfbow guy and will be learning along the way to "expand" my horizons.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: D on November 18, 2013, 09:28:00 PM
I use the inner tube method.  I guess that would fall into the clamp method.  I do think the air hose method gives a more consistent glue line though.  I just had a couple aggravating issues with the hose way is why I went to something else but all of those problems was operator error.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: cunruhshoot on November 18, 2013, 09:52:00 PM
I have only used the air hose method but have had great success with it and it is consistent. I believe the key to the air hose method is a well built form allowing the correct gap for the hose allowing the hose to apply preasure evenly across the width of the lams.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: Sam Harper on November 18, 2013, 09:53:00 PM
I like the clamp method better because:

1.  It's easier to make a clamp form.

2.  You can vary the size and shape of the handle.

3.  It's kind of a pain trying to put the top part on a hose type form and get everything bolted.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: timbermoose on November 18, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
talking with my bud, he's wanting to make 5 presses and ovens. he currently has 14-20 bow orders in the works for some hunting club, full of rich guys wanting to get into archery. there are about 250 members currently, so the potential is there for many more bow orders. ill be whipping out the arrows(gonna build a router jig, no more hand planning) and a few selfbows.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: MoeM on November 19, 2013, 03:41:00 AM
I`m going to get myself a pneumatic press this week.
I`m through with the inner tube method. It`s faster, smoother, cleaner, safer and excellent for a lazy one like me^^
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: Crooked Stic on November 19, 2013, 04:41:00 AM
Air hose method here. And yes the key to it is a square form and proper gap for the hose and layup.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: milehi101 on November 19, 2013, 08:57:00 AM
I have used the air hose method for 14 years and would use nothing else
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: LittleBen on November 19, 2013, 11:50:00 AM
I've used spring clamps with great success on all wood laminate bows. I had some trouble at first, but I found that using a hickory or oak pressure strip helpos alot ... and using alot of clamps.

The air hose method seems better frankly ... only thing is it takes more equipment, and as mentioned the handle style is set.

Either works fine. If I was gearing up to make 15 bows, I'd probably get the air hose. There's nothing fast about putting 100 spring clamps on a bow form ....
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: recurvericky on November 19, 2013, 03:01:00 PM
With the hose method, you can change the handle style if you make inserts for different handles.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: goobersan on November 19, 2013, 05:26:00 PM
hose. far more consistent
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: Gundog68 on November 22, 2013, 01:13:00 AM
I tested all three methods. First, you do not need new inner tubes every new bow. You do something wrong with the wrapping of the bow...
Clamps need more time so i stick now with inner tubes and over this the hose. I used the hose several times alone but get little movements in the lams. So i take the inner tubes for precise layout and pre checks, then put the hose on top an take a rope over the hose and the bolts where the inner tubes already are. Put pressure in the hose and put it in the oven.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: BigJim on November 22, 2013, 07:31:00 AM
I built an elaborate clamp system when I first started and look at that pile of junk nearly every day as I air up the hoses in my forms.

I honestly have never glued up a bow and assembled my form thinking "boy this sure is a pain to put together" Probably because there isn't time to think that since it is done so quickly.

Yes, there is a little more build time in  making an air hose form, but it pays dividends for years to come.

bigjim
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: MoeM on November 22, 2013, 07:53:00 AM
Just assembled my hose today... can`t wait for the pump to arrive tomorrow. Parts are all cleaned up and ready to glue for 5 days now   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: LittleBen on November 22, 2013, 08:16:00 AM
Good call Jim, Sometimes you just need to do the hard work up front and make your life easier in the long run.
Do you use a compressor or can a manual pump like a bike pump work?
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: onemississipp on November 23, 2013, 06:39:00 PM
I use a foot operated bike pump. Doesn't take long filling such a small space.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: timbermoose on November 23, 2013, 11:32:00 PM
decided im going with the hose method. got a small compressor so that will be quick. getting the press and oven materials this week sometime.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: Gundog68 on November 25, 2013, 01:33:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by MoeM:
Just assembled my hose today... can`t wait for the pump to arrive tomorrow. Parts are all cleaned up and ready to glue for 5 days now    :rolleyes:  
Please check the hose min. twice... I get once some stress with a "later" leak with the bow in the oven ;-)
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: MoeM on November 25, 2013, 02:27:00 AM
Oh I will do so for sure!
Got a "Topeak Joeblow" bikepump and ran the first test with 4bar~60PSI when I checked pressure after 8h the gauge showed only half the pressure but I think I lost most when connecting the valve again... I hope so!
Btw. the handpump works well, it takes only about half a minute to inflate 2m/80" hose.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: MoeM on November 25, 2013, 08:35:00 AM
Damn this **** is crazy, I did a pre glue dry run with the hose tied down with a rope using gundog`s way and at only 2bar one of the 1/2 dowels just broke and flew around in my shop... I think I`ll turn to the 2-piece form with steel beam holders!

How much pressure do you guys use? I`ve heard about 60 PSI right?
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: Robertfishes on November 25, 2013, 08:56:00 AM
60 to 65psi is what I use.. I also use a bike pump, I air hose up slowly..I check lams and riser for alignment every few pumps. I can usually get 55-60psi with my bike pump,then I use my air compressor for the last few pounds of air pressure. I keep a spare bike pump and fire hose set up in my shop just in case..also get a pack of extra valves for the hose, it will also have the little valve tool in it, only cost me a couple of dollars..almost cost me more when I didn't have them in the shop..
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: onemississipp on November 25, 2013, 11:23:00 AM
Moem,
 Could be gundog is using bolts and you were using wood dowels.

You could use wood dowels but need a wood higher in specific gravity, more than 60 psi.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: onemississipp on November 25, 2013, 11:24:00 AM
60 psi here also...

Going to try an inter tube form in the next week or so just to see how well it works.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: bjansen on November 25, 2013, 09:41:00 PM
Once I used an air hose form, I never messed with rubber bands or clamps again.  

30 psi, let it ooze...then 45, another minute...50, then 60. That process works well for me.
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: Gundog68 on November 26, 2013, 01:30:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by onemississipp:
Moem,
 Could be gundog is using bolts and you were using wood dowels.

You could use wood dowels but need a wood higher in specific gravity, more than 60 psi.
Yes, i am using bolts(12mm). This method (with the rope and hose) is invented from nikodemus (free-archers.de).
Title: Re: laminate bow form; hose or clamps
Post by: MoeM on November 26, 2013, 05:11:00 AM
Ah steel bolts seem to be the answer, I have some leftover pipes stainless steel I think those gotta work....
What rope do you use? Is there a specific "break force" (Bruchlast) you would recommend?
Do you use some lams between rope and hose or yust tie it really close?