Trad Gang

Ok I have been watching and trying to learn for years now and after many unsuccessful attempts  I finally made a board bow, now its not the greatest but it shoots ok...well I just glued up a hickory reflex bow recently with help from D (David) and Im gonna start on a R/D BBH bow shortly and checking my jig, I don't have a idea how Im gonna mate the riser to the blank because of the curve, is there a way to do it easily, is there a how to or build along that I miss somewhere, I think on the Torges video shows a way but I cant remember for sure as I haven't watched it in over 12 years and that is a VHS and I don't own one anymore...I had a heck of a time trying to mate the reflex hickory to the blank and will gel super glue work..I know I should get some unibond but cant afford it right now..Im hoping it holds...I glued tips today and had to pop one off after a couple hours since it slid 1/2"..luckily it poped off somewhat clean...re sanded and cut another overlay and got it to stay after massive amount of tape then clamped it..I just checked out a pic ol Roy put up awhile ago so I will do that next time I do another angle tip overlay....check out my jig..my first attempt..part of my string stretcher unit but I modified...any tips or suggestions..I used my buddys David's dimension for his BBI with 6" center and 5" middles and 8"tips and on the side you don't see I have a tape measure that scales out at 74"
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I'm no expert by any means but I cut my handle material to my desired length, mark the center and line it up with my center mark on my bow. I then use the curve of the bow to mark the riser shape with a pencil. Cut it out with the band saw and hand sand till it fits right with no gaps. And yes, I use unibond to glue my riser to the bow. I did use titebond III on my first hickory but it wasn't a r/d design. Not saying it wouldn't work but I know unibond works so I'll stick with that.

As stated above with the trace and make it fit method.
I prefer to use many layers of 1/4 or less slats. I stack them up each one being a little shorter as they stack to the outside.

This way when I glue up the stack glueing,between each piece the stack will bend when I put the clamp in the middle and align on bow. I mark all pieces on,center line for alignment.

You can use all the same wood or contrasting layers.

TBIII is very strong and very cheap if you're on a budget. You will need to have a very tight fit of the mating surfaces though so get ready to do some sanding.

I found fitting the handle to be the hardest part of the build.
I did as described above..glue up bow, trace on riser block, cut and sand..

It just takes a while, but it can be done.
I'd use unibond for it just in case you don't get things quite "perfect"

using slats is very interesting to me.

Here are some that started with the slats.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/macbow/image-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/macbow/media/image-2.jpg.html)

very pretty.

In my mind I was thinking of more and thinner layers.
Wasn't sure if I'd like the look of that.
I like the look of yours though.

I'll probably try that next time around.
I'd think it would be an interesting stack to clamp.

Razorbak. Are your mid limb posts anchored down?

There will be,some,resistance the bending.

Cut to fit before glue up. Note the arc in the bow glue up? Cut a piece of riser material, lay it on it's side, lay the bow on top of the riser material, trace it out, cut it out, then get it too an even mating surface with hand tools. Make sure you mark one end of the riser as top so you always put it back on the correct way when checking for the fit.

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Glued up.

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Different handle but how they look after being all done.

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I use the same method.  I glue my riser block together first and then lay the limbs over it and trace the curve with a pencil and then cut and sand to fit.  Check the fit A LOT while your sanding.  It take some time but you can handle it.

If a Rebel can  do it, a Yankee can too. LOL

Thanks guys..the tips will be very helpful...I like the pics , those are nice...and my mids are not anchored, only the tips are, got to modify it some and here is one I just finished today but I had bad glue lines and it came out to 44# @ 26" 66 long and 64" nock to nock..don't think its gonna make it, I just heard a tick when I just drew it back so I unstrung it and walked away..this is bow 132 and out of all that only 1 survived so far..LOL
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hickory board with hick backing that my good buddy David gifted me..it has action wood tips and in riser and some curly maple as well with a cut in rest....Im trying so hard to make one that will last and at my draw weight, thought this one was gonna get there but top limb didn't want to bend enough to floor tiller, but after 3hours it finaly bent enough to put on long string then shorter string then brace to 6"...I used the gizmo, I know tiller isn't perfect and I want to get there someday especially when I do a R/D BBH or BBO someday

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here is another pic

My friend,

Please don't be afraid to ask for more help in every aspect of bow building.
From choosing the right type and quality of wood to the type of sandpaper for finishing.

I can hardly imagine the frustration I would feel after building that many bows without having the hoped for result.

Hang in there Art ol buddy.  You will get it.  Like I told you in the PM a full draw pic would help a lot.  The knowledge on here is endless and if you do what the experts say (I AM NOT INCLUDED IN THAT AT ALL) you will for sure get a bow.

That is an incredible number of,failures. You might have the worlds record.
I can see this with board bows. But once,you move into backed bows the success rate should improve.

First try to find out where the,"tic" came from.
Do you have a pulley operated tillering tree?

Hard to,see,how your tillering went from the pictures.
Hickory usually needs to be,wider than IPE. iPE is a dense wood that can work,well very narrow.

R/d bows are a little more difficult to tiller than straight or reflexed bows.

After that many tries there is something fundamentally wrong with your process.
Maybe  a build along using your picture taking skills on each step.
I read into your post that finances are a problem.  If you had to buy the board,for the failed bows it adds up fast.

I wish you lived closer, would love to get together for some building.

I always thought I had a record in failures. I started 20 years ago and had videos and books to go by. But I learn that my tillering skills were BAD. Until I use a gizmo for the first time is when I made my first successful board bow. I have use boards staves and bamboo and with and all the failures  was my tillering skills and a few bad woods as I didn't know any better.   I was buying staves And logs every week for years trying to make one until I got injured from a work accident.  I didn't do anything for 3 years until recently. With the kindness and help from David (D). I'm raring to go again.  I have pully system and trees to help me in my process.  I will do a build along on my next attempt and that's gonna be a R/D bow. Thanks everyone for your help so far

will get up full draw pics..wish there is more people in my area to build bows with and to learn from...not many in my area even have the desire to do it....I would build bows with everyone on this site if I could

132? Get out.. You from New Hampshire?  :)  

Tip here, do not use flat sawn wood for tip over lays. Use 1/4 sawn hard wood, but horn is way better.

What happened to all your bows, how did they fail?

my bows failed due to my bad tillering skills and bad wood and trying to make some out of my skill level...before the build alongs I didn't know any better in reading grain and moisture content...violating the backs and not letting wood cure and mainly rushing ahead..basically not knowing what I was doing...when I say I failed I really failed and its one thing in archery I am really bad at but Im trying hard to fixed that...I broken 7 in the past 3 weeks...Im done with HD boards...saving up for some good wood.....cant buy like I use to  :)

The bow in the pictures looks pretty good, Art. Except it's hinged at both flares, right outside the riser area, and your limbs are flat. Your bow is bending in one spot at the hinges. Use the gizmo and get your limbs bending in a nice even arc from the very start of tillering. Make them limbs look like a 1/4 moon.

  (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/artbow.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/artbow.jpg.html)

that's what I thought and David thought as well as I had a real hard time getting the limbs to bend..it actually came out bending like a Japanese Yumi bow I kid you not..I use the gizmo but it doesn't do flares and dips and I still think Im not using it correctly for some reason

My hat is off to you for your persistence! I would have given up long ago...that said, you are in the best place for advice. Knowledge here is plentiful, as is the will to help. So, ask away. And, if you can, buy, borrow or steal the first volume of the TBB series. It deals with wood structure, tillering, and most of the things that a novice finds puzzling in building wood bows. I know, I'm there too! I wish you the best of luck with your efforts. After so many bows, you more than deserve it!

DF

I have all the volumes of the TBB..just misplaced the 1st 3 volumes..Im not gonna quit until I get a shootable bow that doesn't break...here are some full draw pics which I see it now that I have some hinges..what I was worried about... (//%5Burl=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/razorbak1/media/002_zps18300a79.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/razorbak1/002_zps18300a79.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]  (//%5Burl=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/razorbak1/media/003_zpsa00c6a1c.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/razorbak1/003_zpsa00c6a1c.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]

Have you tried tapering the thickness of your belly wood before glue up?
Might want to consider trying it at 1/2" thick through the riser area plus about 4" past, then taper the thickness to 3/8" at the tips.
Also, might want to keep the bow width parellel through that same area as well.
..hard to see in the pics.. but it almost looks as if the thinnest part of your limb is right after the fade..might just be the angle though.

Doing this will greatly strengthen the area at the fades and really help to keep hinges away from that area.

Now I've only built one bbo.
So weigh the advice from whom it is.
But doing this did work.

I'm pretty sure that board was thickness tapered one that I sent him Zradix.  I sent him two..one that wasen't and one that was.  Its 1/2 inch in the middle and then a couple inches ouf from the center its tapered .0025 per inch to the tip.

You will get the hang of it Art.  No worries.  Get those midlimbs bending on the next one.  Hey Roy can you do your oval picture thing over his pic to give him a better idea how its suppost to look.  That is very helpful and I have no idea how to do it.

Yep it was the tapered one I glued up from David. The other hickory blew up right at draw. Misread my scale. Thought it was 60 but it was 90 when I had on tree exceed using the limbs.  Told you I was bad David.  LOL.  Next one I will do build along and get everyone's help. I'm tired if messing up and blowing up bows. LOL

Yes your bow has hinges and they come from what you told me in the pm of removing wood 1.5 out from the dips to get the bow to bend. You can save the bow by taking wood off the rest of the limbs, that will relieve some stress on those hinges.

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Thanks everyone. Another lesson learned. To bad alot  if you guys live so far away. LOL. I would have saved alot of aggravation over the years

Why not cut the handle out like you want it first, use it as the center of your form, bend the lams over it and glue it up all at once? Thats what we glass bowyers would do.

Bonner

I thought about that myself Dan.

I figured if I were to use the type of form I was planning on..just posts.. The limbs might take a weird bend just at the end of the riser.

Also, I was worried that getting a good glue line through the thick part of the belly wood to the riser might be pretty tricky when you don't want to put too much pressure on the backing with clamps.

..and I wasn't sure what kind of springback would happen in the rest of the bow when the middle of the bow couldn't spring back.

anyway..those were my thoughts/worries..and that's why I didn't try it.

But my worries very well may be unfounded..it's not like I'm an expert.

I can't think of a reason why you couldn't glue the handle on at the same time the backing is applied, if you had your caul designed for it. It may reduce the versatility of my form, or cause more work during setting it up, as I seldom make the exact same profile twice... in fact, I don't believe I ever have.

It literally takes just a few minutes to shape and glue up a handle piece after the fact.

Zradix. That's what I thought that's why I didn't do it. I figure the bend in handle wouldn't hold the handle because of the slight arch in blank.  If I was doing a straight form or something like a small backset I'm sure that would work great.   Gonna fix my hinges and fix the limb and give the bow to a lefty kid I know that would like this.   Back to drawing board so to speak   Thanks everyone for the help and tips. I think my next one will be one that survives