Trad Gang

I tried a BBI a couple weeks ago and it didn't turn out.

So I decided to give a BBO a try.
One thing I didn't like about my old form is that it had a little flex.

So I built one that wouldn't...
The angle pcs and mid limb pads were some scraps I had laying around from some old projects.

The 2x6x3/16"wall rect tube was a leftover pc of frame/bumper my buddy had from building an off road rig.
He was nice enough to let me have it.

My clamps aren't quite deep enough to put the bow in the middle.
So I need to clamp off to one side.
...the price you pay for free sometimes..lol
That steel doesn't even notice it's being used though, so no worries

    (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/newjig.jpg)

        (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0420.jpg)

I ordered a BBO kit.
Wasn't happy with the boo I received, but the seller was a good guy and sent me another pc.
The first one had some pretty deep digs in it and some cracks on the bottom side.

So in the meantime I took the osage down to 1.5" wide .5" thick by 66" long.
I plan on building this bow 66" long.  1.25" wide, 9" handle pc, 12" PL, and continuing the 1.25" width 4" past the PL then tapering to 1/2" tips.

Hoping for a 45-50# @ 28".

Once the new pc of boo came in I drew the outline of the bow on it..
 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/boolayout.jpg)


And sanded it down to the line
 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/boolayoutlong.jpg)

Then I thinned the boo down.
I've only sanded down boo 3 times now.
It seemed like I could never get it truly flat from side to side.
I've been using a pc of 1/2" thick steel for a sanding block too.

This time after sanding, I scraped the boo flat...much better result.

So after sanding the boo down thin I laid it down on the osage and traced out the pattern.
 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/booonosage.jpg)
 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/booonosage2.jpg)
 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/tracingonosage.jpg)

Then I sanded the osage down to about 1/8" or so from the line.
...don't have a pic of that.

The osage at this point has the general lines of the the finished width taper.

It was still all 1/2" thick though.

Starting from the point where my limbs start to taper I sanded the belly tapering to 3/8" thick at the tips.
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/sandingthicknesstaper.jpg)

After sanding I scraped again just to get everything square.
Made quite a pile of pretty yellow shavings..lol
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/pileofshavings.jpg)

Kinda hard to see here but this is the result..
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/osagetapered.jpg)

Then I sanded down a piece of walnut for my PL.
Ran a hacksaw blade down everything to rough it up.

And got messy..
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/jigwithplastic.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/clampr.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/clampl.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/clampedup.jpg)

Overall I'd say I had a pretty productive night.

Have to admit, I like working with the osage more than the ipe.
The ipe seemed to fight a little more every step..not bad..just the osage seemed easier.

Might just be because this is my second attempt and a hair more experience made it seem easier too though..

One of my favorite things about the osage is the dust didn't bother me at all.

Boo dust irritates my hands.
Ipe dust burns my nose a bit..I do wear a mask.
Ebony burns my nose and eyes a bit more..
But osage seems pretty docile..I like it.

Also it's soooo much easier to see your pencil lines...lol

oh yeah..
I glued up a little riser block yesterday..
I think it should look decent..
  (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/pcsforriser.jpg)

  (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/riserblockebony.jpg)

I haven't decided which way I'm going to orient the handle pc.
Could have the osage showing straight out on the belly side or visible from the sides.

I'm leaning towards having the osage show from the sides.

  (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/riserblockcontrast.jpg)

So...
I'll probably be begging for tillering help mon or tues night...   :rolleyes:

Looking good, John..

Looks good so far. You did good by not using that piece of damaged bamboo. Good call.

I have a feeling you're going to be thinning that osage quite a bit to hit your target weight. 1/2" tapered to 3/8" is pretty thick for a 45-50# bow. For comparison, I have one here I made with the same profile as yours, the osage is 1/2" at the handle, 3/8" at mid-limb, and 5/16" at the tips. The bow is 1.25" wide, 64" long nock to nock, and draws 70# @ 28".

I have no power lam in this bow, however, it's 8" from flare to flare, with a handle piece glued on that is 14" long, which tapers the dips into working limb thickness 3" past the flares. I make the handle rounded and the belly fully radiused, so that 3" dip area is actually tapering in thickness AND width. This accomplishes strengthening of the handle area and a gradual transition from stiff handle into working limb not unlike the effects of a 'power lam'.

Oh yeah, this bow is trapezoidal in cross section too... so that's even less wood... still a 70 pounder    :eek:

alright back in the saddle! good luck man!     :thumbsup:    :campfire:

You're making this look easy.  Can't wai to see the finished product.

-Jeremy  :coffee:

The only other advice I would give you at this point is...

You said, "I've only sanded down boo 3 times now. It seemed like I could never get it truly flat from side to side. I've been using a pc of 1/2" thick steel for a sanding block too."

It's very hard to flatten wood or bamboo with a sanding block... or ANY flat hand tool. No matter how hard you try, you invariably roll the tool one way or the other just a tiny bit, and bam, she's no longer flat... which will show in your glue lines along the edge. I used to work hard at making them flat too, tried all different kinds of hand tools, and was never completely happy until I purchased a toothing plane. I LOVE it... one of my most favorite tools. If you're going to make more than a couple backed bows, you may want to look into investing in one. The blade is best when ground and sharpened in a slightly convex shape. It works better to flatten than flat tools do. You can direct your work to specific areas across the width of the piece. And more importantly, when I'm done flattening/thinning it, I run the toothing plane several passes, perfectly parallel with the bamboo, with the apex of the convex blade as exactly down the center as possible, until it won't remove any more material. Then when you clamp the very thin piece of bamboo down, it flattens out, showing perfect glue lines on the edge of the bow every time. In fact it works so well, that sometimes when the bow's done, you can't FIND the glue joint.

Toothing planes aren't cheap, they're a little over a hundred bucks, but worth every penny.

If you're a capable woodworker, Dean Torges shows you how to make your own in his video Hunting The Bamboo Backed Bow. That way, all you have to do is buy the blade.

By the way, I use the toothing plane blade, removed from the plane, to prep glue joints on the handle pieces, all overlays, etc. I also used it, in the plane, to prep the osage's gluing surface until I bought a thickness sander.

I don't know what kind of glue you're using, but if you ever get a toothing plane, you'll need to use a glue with gap filling properties... i.e. epoxy.

I'm looking forward to following along with the rest of this build. Good luck with it!

Roy, I'm home, but won't be coming down today. I'm going to glue up another BBO.

Thank you for the tip!

man that is one heavy duty form you got there.

kinda over done...but it's what I had available.

I just tacked the angle on with the welder.

I would have liked to go through and drill and tap holes all up and down the base so I could have adjustability.

But I just didn't feel like it.

I can remove the angles in short order with a grinder.

Took the osage down to the boo last night.
Removed the excess glue.
Taking down the osage took a lot longer than expected..don't know why..just seemed to take forever..lol

But I did get the handle glued on about 2am.

Guess I have tonight off while waiting for glue to harden.
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0452.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0451.jpg)

thats gonna be pretty.

Thanks Eric.

I hope so..it has a chance as long as I don't screw it up...lol

Is that handle ebony again? I really like the look of that.

Thanks
I'm thinking it'll look ok.

It is ebony..with a strip of osage between it this time.

Last time it was just solid ebony..but that was going on ipe.

I thought the osage needed more than "just a dark block" for the handle.

I almost used some ebony for the PL..but it sometimes felt brittle to me. Seemed to cut on the table saw in big chunks instead of dust too.

Just didn't feel comfortable doing it.
So I went with some walnut I had for the PL...hopefully it won't look too bad.

I think ebony would have been sweet as a power lam. a nice little black accent in there.... sandwiched between lams with all the glue... I don't think you have to worry about it being brittle or something.

You might be right Eric.

I'm sure it would look better than the walnut.
I'm thinking of possibly of carefully staining the walnut with ebony stain...

tricky to do.

yeah.
I've done some similar fine line staining before.
I normally use a small artist's brush with only a few fibers in it for the edges.

If you use a small enough amount of stain it'll bead just slightly at the glue line.

the wipe down after is the fun part...lol

...we'll see.
I'll wet the bow down with some ethanol before I try it.
Just to see what color it'll all be.

Here's how it's looking...
Fades look pretty good.

The bow looks uneven in the last pic but it's really ok.
Once I got the handle pc to fit nicely the belly side wasn't quite straight up and down....so it's resting on one limb and part of the riser.
Fitting that piece is the worst part of the build for me...lol

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0454.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0458.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0457.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0456.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0455.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0454.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0459.jpg)

lookin good man

John,

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are killing yourself with all these extras.  Let's get some successful bows under your belt before you start adding power lams, and 3 piece handles and overlays and underlays.  They just make it so much more painful when the bow doesn't live up to your expectations, which is nearly inevitable on the first few.

If fitting the handle piece is the worst part for you then you are putting way too much effort into fitting the handle.  Focus on making the wood bend, not making it pretty.

You are going to have hard time enough working out that extra R/D you added.  You gotta walk before you run.

I do appreciate the advice...and certainly won't take it the wrong way.

I thought the PL was needed or at least helps stiffen up the center so the handle isn't so likely to "pop" off.

Aside from using multiple thin slats that will bend into shape for the handle..how else can you do it?
I'm all ears my friend...fitting that thing is a pain..lol
My sander's table isn't ridged enough to use so I end up doing it by hand with a scraper and sanding block.

The 3 pc handle was a "might as well" item to do while I was waiting for a replacement boo pc to come in the mail. Heck that was a simple little deal...wish it was all that easy...lol

now speaking of the r/d...

The first part of tillering this bow will be to try to get the middle 1/3 of the limbs bending correct?

Kinda want the innermost part of the limbs and the last 6-8" or so to darn near stay still until the limbs are about flat at around mid draw...right?

Then tiller a nice curve at draw.

My recommendation is to keep it simple.  I don't even know what a power lam is and I've made a bunch of BBOs.  I highly recommend Dean Torges' video "Hunting the Bamboo backed Bow".

John its just to stiffen up the fades so that the handle doesn't pop off. i used it on mine just cause my ipe was only 3/8" thick to begin with, so i didn't have much room to run the fades into the ipe. got the idea from poorfolkbows.com

I too have made a pile of bbo bows and never put a 'power lam' in there. Never had a handle pop off either.

Isn't the extra lam used to gradually increase the limb's resistance to bending BEFORE it gets to the fades/dips? IMO, this would only be needed if the dips weren't executed in such a way as to gradually slow and then stop the bend, and/or the glue joint was inadequate.

I too also highly recommend Dean's dvd. I have one of his bbo bows, there's no 'power lam', and you can tell by the design and shape why it isn't needed.

I lent that dvd out and it never made it back home. I should buy another one. I should get another Bowyer's Edge too while I'm at it  :)

sorry guys but im going to throw a cat in amongst the pigeons, i think a bow just look a real beauty with a power lam / accent it just says the guy put some love care into what he was doing.
i must admit i also thought it was to stop the handle popping and to give more strenght if putting a shelf in.

by the way love your bow zradix its coming along real smooth take your time and im sure this will be one to remember.   :cool:

pretty isnt everything.... but it is something!

can I cut some grooves into this bow as is for tillering?

Or do I need to glue on an overlay or horn to keep the boo from splintering?

...just for tillering..

Thanks!   :thumbsup:

You can cut regular string grooves in it, just dont violate the back of the bow... cut into the sides and wrap them onto the belly a bit maybe, but not down into the back. Then if you decide to later, you can grind em off and glue on horn, antler, hardwood or whatever.

Before I got onto doing the horn overlays the way I do now, I made bamboo backed osage bows with no overlays whatsoever, and they worked fine. A friend has been shooting one of those bows of mine for almost ten years and while it's taken a little set, and the tips are slightly worn, they're fine structurally.

There are a few benefits to the horn, but it's not imperative that they're used. They're more durable if you tend to use your bow as a walking stick, you can file the string grooves down into the 'back' of the horn to better protect the string from wear, and they look nice... like new in fact for a long, long time.

I used to cut in temporary nocks to use throughout the tillering, nowadays I either tiller the first 8-10" with a long tillering string with leather boots on both ends, then grind the ends, put the horn on, shape em, cut in string grooves, and sand em smooth, make a short string then continue tillering... OR I'll put the horn on and finish them before I ever began bending the limbs at all. Depends on how good I feel about the bow  ;)

Thanks for the reply Bowjunkie.

I think I'll just glue some horn on tonight and eliminate some of the risks.
No good reason to take a shortcut at this point I guess.

Thanks!

Hey, what's up with the bow?  Got her done yet?

Regarding the power lam, it serves the same function as the wedge in a takedown limb. It's not necessary in a 1 piece, but I think it's a nice touch.

Regarding a pretty bow vs. a well tillered bow. I'd take the well tillered bow any day. With that said, I have a number of fairly roughly finished bows that are well tillered that I wish I had spent a little more time on and made a bit nicer. None of them are from my first few tries though. I probably made half a dozen before I backed one, and another half dozen before starting any fancy tricks. Now I Always try and make something pretty because I can reasonably expect that the bow will be tillered well and I wont end up heartbroken over a trashed bow.

So I'm with John on the walk before you run, at the same time, a few extra moments here and there aren't going to kill you. PLus as many of us are limited by money as well as time, if it doesn't cost too much, or take a ton of time, sometimes a little embelishment on the bow is worthwhile.

What's your plan with the width taper on the limbs? I assume since you have all that R/D, and you want the midlimb to bend more than the rest you're going to keep the limb parallel till past midlimb then taper to the nocks (maybe the last 8-10")? That'd probably be a decent plan since you'll need more width in midlimb than a pyramid shape will give you ...

Sorry guys.
Very busy the last few days.
Had to put some extra hours in at work so I could take some time off for family this weekend.

Just got back home.

I had a few mins Fri night to scrape on this one a bit.

Here it is with about as low a taught string I could get on it.

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/bracedloose.jpg)

Same string at 4"

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/4inches.jpg)

Then at 10"

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/10inches.jpg)

What needs to be done now?

I'm thinking I need to get the limbs bending in a nice arc through the middle instead of still showing the reflex.

Is this correct?

Also, the whole right limb needs to be weaker as I think there is a hinge right at the fade for some reason.
...and of course the left will need to follow in suit.

What I'm really worried about is where I need to get the limbs bending more in order to get it to correct brace.

Thanks!!!

It is a little hard to tell how far the tips are moving.
It looks like it is time to move to about 4 inches of brace.
Exercise it some more then.
See if what you have been seeing is confirmed.
Adjust tiller
Then to 6 inch brace. Then after some,exercise you should have a,better idea how your doing.

Yes you do,keep removing wood through the r/d area till,it,starts,bending,more.

key word here is think... but I THINK that everything looks golden. if you look at picture 1, 2, and 3 over and over... the deflex isn't changing that much. most of the bend is taking place by uncurling the reflex. I'd say its pretty even bend through out the limb... and another couple inches on the long string and i would brace it at about 3 or four inches.  you already know my experience level, so take all that with as much salt as you need.  remember the shorter string is going to put more stress toward the tips than the long string... so they tell me.  Looks really good to me.

"I'm thinking I need to get the limbs bending in a nice arc through the middle instead of still showing the reflex.Is this correct?"

That's not what I would try to do. Your reflex is contained in a relatively small area of mid-limb, with the limb appearing flat to either side of it. Were the limbs tapered in thickness prior to glue up? If you try to bring that drastic reflex around too soon, it'll end up too thin/weak there. That bow might still show reflex at brace, and may make it to full draw before it becomes the perfect arc of a circle... if ever. If you want the reflex to be a nice arc, what do want the flatter areas to either side of it to become?

The thing is, you want the whole limb to work... when it does, flat areas will become arcs, deflex will bend more, and reflex will flatten out, and maybe eventually show arc too, but initially, this early, don't try to make the reflex come around yet.

Rather than try to achieve a perfect arc(not the best tiller shape for all bows), I would ensure my thickness tapering was accurate, then keep working the limbs down the tree without drawing more than target weight, maintaining limb timing. When I get the limb tips 9-10" behind the handle, brace it and see what she looks like.

Thank you for the great insight guys!

The limbs were pretapered in thickness.

they were 1/2" out 4" past the fade.
Then tapered to 3/8" tips

Thanks again!
  :thumbsup:    :notworthy:

Well I got a bit of work done on it tonight..

Lots of scraping here and there trying to get things bending in the right places.

The reflex does take some head scratching to try to figure out..lol
Here's the progression through the night...
Each pic was after doing some more scraping and then working the limbs 40-50 times.

 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0463.jpg)

 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0464.jpg)

 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0465.jpg)

 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0466.jpg)

 (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/SANY0467.jpg)

And this is where I've left it for the night..

It's getting close..but still has a way to go.

I'm shooting for 45-50# @28"
Right now it's 43#@23"

I'm not sure exactly how to proceed here..

At brace, the right midlimb to tip looks like it needs scraping
But  at 23" I think it's a little straight on the left from the middle out 8" or so.

If you gents see something please let me know..
Thank you for your help so far guys!


   (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/profile6-10.jpg)

   (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/brace6-10.jpg)

   (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/23in43lbs6-10.jpg)

you gotta take your pictures from straight on.  I agree that midlimb out on the right limb is stiff.

I think if you're heading for 45-50# you're not far away.

at 2.5# per inch, you bow as it is would be like 55#@28". That only 5# outside of the target weight.

I think you just need to keep taking it slow, and tiller it out inch by inch, don't go over the 50# target at any point and you're doing well.

Remember, you will lose a few pounds through sanding and shooting in the bow. If you want 45-50# @28", better get it off the tree at 48-52# @28". losing two pounds is not much sanding and shooting in.

Looks to me like you are doing well.....just keep sneaking up on it.....if you miss by a couple pounds don't panic....it's part of the learning process. I like it so far!!

At this point I would use a hand sander or sand paper on a flat piece of wood to,do any more tillering etc.
Look the limbs over in good light to see if there are,any slight dips or ripples on the belly.
This will slow you down a little but will hopefully avoid any areas that could cause problems.

You are doing great.  Just work the midlimbs, maybe 5 scrapes at a time to finish out the tiller.  You don't have to worry so much about weight.  It is going to be about perfect I'd guess.  If it turns out a little heavy, a few full length scrapes will let you dial it in.  Definitely finish tillering with it 3-5 pounds heavy.  It will settle in right at  your target.  I have never had BBOs show damage from pulling a few pounds over when you get to this point.

Looks very nice, John.

Wow John!  Roy said it was nice!  Mine are always just "OK"

heck Eric..
Your's looked better.
He just doesn't like ipe..lol

Thanks for the nice comments guys.

I'm always waiting for someone with an experienced eye to give me disastrous news that I was oblivious to...lol

I really appreciate the help in how to proceed.

Seems tillering is like climbing a sharp peak.
Sorta hard to figure out which way to go sometimes.
Might have to do some extra work at times to get through.

....but be careful..if ya rush up the last few steps you just might trip and fall down the other side...lol

There's a lot of good teachers round these parts..lol

heck..Roy darn near gave me a blue print of how to lay this one out..lol

Then with the great posts like Eric's and other's build alongs with the pictures to fill in the gaps of the typed word..even an inept wood worker like me has a chance..lol

Then you get the experienced little pointer from John, Ben, Macbow, Bowjunkie and others buried in a post..kinda like searching for treasure.

You guys are great!
I just hope someday I'll be able to help out with someone's build...lol

Ipe is love or hate ... I've never heard anyone hate osage ...

One thing I was just looking at..
I'm kinda surprised how thick the osage is on this bow.

The bbi's I've seen pics of look much thinner.
I know in general ipe is more stiff..just surprised of the difference.

This looks like it should be a 60# bow..or more.
Very anxious to put a couple arrows through it.
but I promised myself I wouldn't rush anything...

HEY GUYS...

Just to be sure...

Since I have horn overlay tips on this bow I can use FF strings right?

Hell No. What are ya some kind of sissy pants? Use B-50 or you and I are done son...   :laughing:

Naw..no sissy pants here.

Just thought since I'm making a damn fine bow, using the best materials..might as well put those to the best use possible.

I know on some of my past bows I liked the feel when I switched to a ff type string.

Thought if this bow would take it I might like the feel of it this time too.

...as long as it's a safe for the bow type a deal.

It's safe go ahead and put on FF.

well I sure don't want to lose your guidance over it Roy..

I like FF. I just don't tell Roy that. I've used it on ERC selfbows and it doesn't cut the tips off or anything ...

Osage, bamboo and horn are infinitely harder than ERC.

I'll get over it, John:) I even bought some FF, but I've never used it on a bow. I do make tillering strings out of it though. I don't like it cause it makes such a skinny bow string.

I'll try a b-50 and a ff of some sort.
See which works better for me.

Might be able to put a couple arrows through it soon.

...I tried a 12 strand b-50 flemish I had around for tillering..lol
started to pull a loop right out.

Thats why there is a knot just under the tips in the pic..lol

I may try shooting with my 80" tillering string..but I'll have to wrap the excess around the tip or something.

Not sure how that will change the feel of the bow having the extra weight down there...?

Makes almost no difference, I do it all the time, shoot with the tillering string before i get a proper string made up.

I've got one bow that never got a real string and I hunt with it all the time ... it's got a 4" tail hanging off the bottom limb ... the extra left after tying a timber hitch.

IT SHOOTS!!!

just 20 arrows.

but seemed pretty quick and not too much vibes.

Be able to tell better after it has some kind of grip.

but most importantly..IT DIDN"T BLOW UP!!!

nice!!!

grats carnt wait to see pics

Good job. Another bow is born.

Here are some things i try to assess during the first trips to the butts. Sometimes answers to questions like these can point to adjustments needing made in tiller, braces height, or even a change of design in subsequent bows.

How does it balance in your hand? During the draw? At full draw? Does the grip pull straight back into the bow hand, or does it want to tip? How does it feel at the shot? Is there any handshock? Does it want to move, i.e. tilt forward or back, or turn sideways, etc upon release? How does it point? How does the arrow fly? How easy/hard is it to tune? Noise level? Is the tiller holding? etc...

Keep an open mind, question everything, and try to make each one better than the last.

I'm excited for you. Cingrats on your new bow!

Atta boy, John..

Thanks guys.

After shooting it a good bit, the tiller changed on me.
Had one limb showing a "D" shape at brace and the other looked like a heavy reflexed bow.

Did some more scraping and got them even again.

Went and shot another good amount of shots..around a 100 or so..can't remember the # exactly right now.

Seemed to keep tiller this time..yay

Seems to balance pretty well in my hand durring the draw and after the shot.
It just stays still.

There is a noticeable thump to my hand when shot.
Not unbearable at all...but it's noticeable.

I may well be able to tune a lot of that out with brace height adjustments...but it's strong enough I don't think it'll all go away.

Little heavier arrows would help too..they're 575 grain total and the bow is about 51#..kinda light for me.

SEEMS TO BE pretty quiet though considering there is no padding on the arrow pass at the moment.

String makes a hummm but not bad at all.

I can hold a pretty good group..for me..with it.

I'll try to get some pics soon.
My camera got soaked yesterday..hoping it'll work once dried.

do you have string silencers on?

nope.

Don't have an actual string as of yet.
Just shooting the tillering string.

might help a little maybe?

Oh I imagine it will.
Just saying there is a fair thump in the hand.

I'm looking forward to sweetening it up!

Ifin ya thin down those big gorfy horn tips, the thump might lessen up a bit son:)

OH BUT I'M A BIG DORFY GUY ROY!    :smileystooges:

I am curious what difference will be felt after I do.
Don't get me wrong guys.
It's not that bad..I've had bows that were worse...lol

Hand shock can be caused by heavy limb tips, not just the horn over lays. Or can be caused by limb timing not being in sync. Does the bow feel like one limb or the other is fighting you when you draw it, like trying to tip in your hand?

Put a B-50 string on her and see what happens after ya thin down the tips.. And what brace height do you have it set at? Maybe try raising or lowering the brace height a tad. I set my BBO's about 6.25 to 6.5.

I didn't scrape much on the tips at all durring tillering.
I believed it was recommended to keep them stiff for 5-6".

But there is definitely fat to be trimmed.

She's a long way from finished gents.

Right now I've been bracing around 6.5".
Haven't really tried tuning yet much at all as nothing is finished yet.

It'll get there.

I'm a happy dude that I have a bow that shoots!
Not slow either..
OOOOHHHH that reminds me..my chrono wouldn't work inside last night..temperamental gizmo it is.

I'm going to have to see what is says while it's still light out.

I'm not a big speed guy..but it's fun to find out what ya got..lol

It'll be interesting to see what differences can be measured once the string is changed to a "real" string and the tips are lightened etc.

Not that the game will notice a bit of difference..just for curiosity sake.

...why is it that I always feel I HAVE too apologize for using a chrono?..lol

I'll guess 165:) You will be amazed how thin you can get those tips and they will still be straight. How wide are they, John?

Heavy tips, if they are a factor, likely aren't the root cause... slightly heavy tips won't cause handshock if they return simultaneously, but they WILL exaggerate the recoil felt due to unsyncronized limbs. I would check limb timing.

How do you shoot? Split finger or three under? Are the limbs of your bow the same length or is the bottom limb shorter? Where is your nock point set?

Timing issues, handshock, and imperfect arrow flight due to unharmonized limbs are why I don't care for tillering bows to predetermined brace height measurements while pulling the string from the center of the handle. It's a guess, often not the best for the bow, arrow, and archer, and then we either try to mask the effects by changing nock point height, brace height, etc, or learn to live with it. In my opinion, bows should be drawn on the tree just as they will be by hand, with limbs being timed as closely as possible.

The easiest way to tell if there is a timing issue is to shoot it from higher and lower nock points and see if you notice improvement in arrow flight and handshock.

Roy,

Right now the tips are big blocks.
They are darn near square at the tips.
1/2" wide x 1/2" thick.

I have definite plans to slender them up..a lot.

Didn't get a chance to chrono tonight..

Bowjunkie,

The limbs are the same length.
I shoot split.

I took your advice to heart and put the bow back on the tree.
This time I marked the string where my hand will be when pulling back.

My string "claw" is very close to the width of my 3 fingers.
I placed the claw where my fingers will be and pulled her back on the tree.

I saw that when doing this I had one limb tip bending/traveling about 1/2" farther than the other.

With a few trips back and forth from the tree to the scraping bench I got the limbs seemingly better evened out.

..however just as I was expecting this to be my last trip to the tree...
I was working the bow on the tree 40-50 times after scraping like normal..and I heard a tick..

sure enough my first splinter..if one could call it that.
It started about 3/16" under a node on the outside of the limb.

Really a surprise as I haven't done a thing to the back of the bow...it still has the skin and all.

anyway..it's pretty big.
About 1/4" wide and 1.5" long.
Just split right in the middle of the boo layer...it's still glued to the osage.

so now it's sitting with clamps and superglue.

...what a bummer.
I've heard super glue works wonders on these splinters..we'll see.

I would be careful and wrap the area with the splinter in something like silk thread and then soak it with thin CA glue. you could do the same exact thing on the other limb and it would look like you were planning on it. Just a thought for ya

does it really need to be wrapped?

Super glue is pretty strong stuff.

That sucks about the splinter. It happens. I've had success gluing them down without wrapping them.

I don't know that equal limb travel will always mean syncronized limbs. They're equal length, but you're not pulling from the center of the string. I make my bows with different length limbs, so I don't use the tip travel as an indicator for harmony at all. I have a vertical line on the wall that indicates where the fulcrum point of my string hand is, and will follow/travel perpendicular to the bow, when limbs are timed. The 'hook', if placed where your fingerd go on the string, and you pull straight down, will veer away from the line if they're not syncronized, pulling toward the stronger limb. If you want your limbs perfectly timed, weaken the stronger limb until the hook tows the line. This is done with the handle set in the tree so that it won't roll to one side or the other.

You can also set your tree up so that the handle can rock back and forth, and it will lean toward the stronger limb. I have my tree set up so I can do it either way.

If I want the bottom limb just a hair stronger because it's shorter and more highly stressed, I allow the hook to come toward the bottom limb just a tad.

great info man.

..cut and pasted into my notes.

Thanks
  :thumbsup:

That sucks, John. Has happened to me a few times also.

Yeah..
guess it happens to the best of us.

have over 150 shots on the repair now...seems ok..    :pray:  ..lol

after I reached that point I decided to start working on the tips, getting the fades blended in etc.

Tired of shooting a roughed in bow...lol

Good deal, did you wrap it or just super glue?

just glue.

It didn't want to press into place unless it was braced.

so I braced it, pried it open slightly with my knife.
Filled it with thin ca glue.
wrapped it with plastic
clamped with 2 squeeze clamps.

then decided to unbrace, so the boo would line up/ squeeze in  tighter.

left it clamped a couple hrs.
took off the clamps

sanded off the excess ca glue.
then just for kicks ran another bead of glue down the seam.
then fine sanded the glue down.

curious how well it'll stain now...?
I know stain doesn't work on the glue..guess I'll see how well it penetrated...lol

That can be it's beauty mark:)

I can't let you have all the fun, I glued up a tri lam last night.

 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7536.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/IMG_7536.jpg.html)

 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7538.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/IMG_7538.jpg.html)

cool!

What woods are you using?
some of it looks kinda dark.

Roy..
What is the advantage of a tri lam anyway?
Another glue line to hold the shape and the possibility of a lighter core is all I can come up with...other than looks..

I haven't read about this combo..but I'll be looking it up soon..

Now I know I'm not ready for this but I was thinking about whether a boo,cedar,osage bow would hold up

walnut would prob be a better core.

I used Osage belly and Osage core on this one. The dark wood you see is a walnut lam I put under the belly so the clamps don't indent the belly wood. The lighter core wood you use, like cedar,  the lighter the bow weight will be, so you need to make it a bit wider to get up to better weight with lighter core material. But this bow with Osage and Osage will be up there in weight. The advantage of a tri lam is the pieces are thinner so then will bend much easier when you clamp the bow into a form. So the bow takes on a little sexier deflex/reflex shape. They are much easier to clamp down though, but you have twice as many surfaces to apply glue to. I have used cedar for a core, looks nice. Walnut would be good too and a little stronger than cedar.

sounds cool Roy.

Thanks for the info.

report status!

sorry man.

Been busy lately.

After shooting a few hundred more shots and doing a slight bit more fine tillering I decided she's ready for stain and poly.

I'm not super happy with the stain..but at least I know it was safe.
..I didn't sand or scrape down to the fibers.
Leaves a "rougher" look, but I'm not worrying about having nicked a fiber.

But anyway, here's a few pics while it's still wet with the first coat..

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/back.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/profile.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/tip.jpg)

looks purdy. whats wrong with the stain? I like it.

Thanks Eric.

I was hoping for either a fairly rough looking stain or an even stain.
Instead I got something in the middle.

It's not too bad.

Very nice, John.

Looks good. Don't leave us hanging on the FD shot  :)

Really like your bow's profile; it looks great.  I don't think I've been completely satisfied with the finish on any of the bows that I've made, tho the people I've shown them to tell me otherwise.  Maybe it's because we've basically been looking at them under a magnifying glass for weeks on end...and after I shoot them for awhile I seem to forget about those little flaws.  How's it shooting?

Thanks for the comments guys.

Forgot about the FD pic.
It'll have to wait a few days till the poly dries.

I think there's some truth to your statement takefive.

Seemed to shoot pretty decent..even with me behind the wheel.

zradix it looks amazing grats

Thank you.

Boy, the weather here isn't helping the first coat dry.

It's been humid, with t-storms.
I've had the first pretty thin coat of poly drying for 36 hrs now.
It's almost dry. Just slightly tacky in a couple areas.
The osage and ebony being oily doesn't help..but this weather is working against me..lol

Once the first coat is good and hard I'm pretty sure the rest will go much faster. Weather looks pretty decent for the week too.

I have learned my lesson to wait..a long time if necessary... for the first coat to dry. Otherwise you'll just fight with it longer..

Zradix just a little tip for ya. Next time if you want the worn out look to your stain you can use some really fine steel wool and take some of the stain away. It gives a great look to the stain if you leave the nodes a little darker and fade it to the middle being lighter. Here is one that I did for the trade and it came out great. Another thing is using some sort of alcohol based wood dye... works slick and will go deeper into the boo.

 (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/bowhntineverythingnh03743/IMAG0112.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bowhntineverythingnh03743/media/IMAG0112.jpg.html)

I used black dye for the nodes and a light walnut dye for the entire limbs.... Just a tip for you to chew on.... Bow looks good though

nice tip thanks

Beautiful bow!

Well here she is..

Meet... Halcyon

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/bracedjpk.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/specs.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/Rriser.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/Lriser.jpg)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/tip-1.jpg)

And my first Full Draw pic...

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/bbo1/fulldrawjpk.jpg)

Nice. What's the final specs?

Thanks guys

Well it started as a 66" long board.
...not really sure what the straight line tip to tip length is now..lol

It takes about a 62.75" string for a 6.5" Brace height.

But it's 49# @28"

Haven't chrono'd it yet.
it's not a speed bow..but it isn't slow either.

Wow I really love that ebony. So freaking black. Looks like something you'd recover off a space ship ... the ebony that is. Pretty sure aliens use laser guns not bows.

Thanks Ben.

These pcs do have a slight brown color to them..but it's really hard to see it in the pics.

In person, you'd think it was black from a few feet away, but in decent light you can see the brown at arms length.

Congrats on your bow    :thumbsup:   Tiller looks great!

Very nice!!

I guess it's ok..   :laughing:

nice! finally!

Nice circular bend for sure!!   :cool:

Thanks guys.

Sorry it took so long for the pics Eric.
I really did post just a few mins after taking it..lol

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
I guess it's ok..    :biglaugh: