When I put on my riser overlay on my laminated longbows I am having a tough time getting a clean transistion from overlay to glass. I am always left wtih a small area at the end of the overlay where the smooth on epoxy oosed out a bit. I attempt to sand and sand moving from 200 grit to 600 and just can't seem to get a perfect transition. I tape of the glass so as not to get epoxy there but I always seem to get just a bit...
Does anyone have some tips for me. Everything about my bows look great except that one detail...
thanks
Cameron
Here is a pic of what I am talking about...
(http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w394/cunruhsurf/Bow%20Making/00d598a9481801c7f900ef09b30bded0.jpg)
The only part of building one that I dislike!
Is your glue line real thin? Maybe need more clamping pressure?
I'm gonna get a pc of 1/4" lam over rigid foam and clamp the crap out of it on my next one, just to see if it helps!
I have to sand down into the bow glass a fuzz to make it look good.
Kenny - that is what I am doing with this one...I purchased a dremel tool to accomplish some area specific sanding and I have taken it down just into the bow glass ever so slightly. I am now attempting to put several coats of minwax poly over it to build up a smooth transition.
I think that a little better plan up front like you have indicated in the glue up may save a lot of after the fact finish work.
Thanks for the input
Is that the excess squeezing out during clamping the overlay or is that getting exposed during sanding back the overlay?
If its just excess squeezing out, use a rag and fingertip to wipe off excess and then Q tips, with slight pressure their like a squeegee down in the corner, great for cleanup on tips too.
If its exposed during sanding, watch your angle, most woods are softer than the epoxy and sand faster.
Overlays (tip and riser) are the hardest thing to get to look nice when building a glass bow. I've gotten better with more practice, but I've still never been completely satisfied with mine.
I think Mark may have it right about your angle and exposing the epoxy.
I've wrapped sandpaper on a nock file with fair results. Dremels I don't like, prob just me tho!
Mark - this could be very true. I will have to look at things a little more closely. I know that I had one bow where i taped the riser beyond the overlay and then the overlay slipped down slightly and covered about a 1/16" of the tape - boy was that a mess to fix and it did expose the epoxy.
Kenny - the dremel tool may go back to Lowes unless i can find other valuable use for it. I have found it to be dangerous...one slip and you have gouged a trench. Fortunately that happend on a test run with a scap piece of end cut that i saved from a bow.
The nock file with sandpaper sounds more my speed.
The secret to getting a good transition is sanding one direction only. Always sand from the top overlay down. NEVER sand the other direction....NEVER!
Here is the last one I did.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k258/matter_daddy/DSCN2198_zpsac5d25fe.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/matter_daddy/media/DSCN2198_zpsac5d25fe.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k258/matter_daddy/DSCN2199_zpsbecced2d.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/matter_daddy/media/DSCN2199_zpsbecced2d.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k258/matter_daddy/DSCN2192_zps5e67945e.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/matter_daddy/media/DSCN2192_zps5e67945e.jpg.html)
I used to have the exact same issue, try to clean up as much of the epoxy while its wet. Small c-clamps work well for the rounded edge of the overlay, a washer or quarter will keep the rounded edge down nice and tight.
I have the Dremel Stylus, its the small gun shaped one, excellent control, like holding a pen and the 240 grit is pretty forgiving.
I cant imagine doing tips without it.
When all else fails, a flat finish is your very, very best friend.
I agree with Kenny. A dremel tool usually makes for more work fixin a gouge. Tickle the glass a little but go slow. You'll get there. You are making an effort to correct the problem instead of calling it good enough and that speaks volumes about your crafstmanship. The difference between an awesome bow and a 'nice' bow is attention to details such as this. By the way, glass blends into glass the nicest.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/mikebaker/DSCF0347-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikebaker/media/DSCF0347-1.jpg.html)
Beautiful bow Tenbrook, is that Bloodwood/Cardinalwood? Nice contrast, really stands out.
Very nice finish work on both bows...That is what I am wanting to accomplish. Thanks for the insight and shared knowledge. Good tips like this save hours of pain on my end.
Thanks
QuoteOriginally posted by carpin'mark:
Beautiful bow Tenbrook, is that Bloodwood/Cardinalwood? Nice contrast, really stands out.
Thanks. Its purpleheart.
I've had fairly good success with a scraper, going very slowly and carefully, from the overlay down. Just gently scrape it smooth, then hand sand with 220 or finer to get the last bit perfect. I've tried the dremel, but all that seems to do is create a "ditch" right on the glue line and takes longer to get it right. The wood will sand away quicker than the epoxy or the glass, so whatever you do, take it slow.
What I found works the best for me is to use super glue for my overlays. I get much tighter glue lines with the super glue. Gotta make sure that you take a finer sand to both the glass under and the underside of the overlay too and let a coat of the super glue soak into the grain. Then I use one of those sanding sponges in a pretty fine grit to do my finish sanding on it. Just another way to do it I guess.
What works for me on riser overlays:
Smooth-On for glue
Layered to THIN glass or phenolic, then thin wood or whatever.
Using a form and air hose at 80 psi.
Now that Tenbrook mentioned it, my best results are when I grind from the overlay to the glass. I use 120 grit on the belt sander to rough it out close to the glass then finish it by hand using progressively finer Emery cloth pulled under my thumb.
One of these days I will break down and buy an air drum and buffer setup, it should get really nice results fast. My friend Doug Campbell let me use his setup while teaching me to make knifes, the only thing I could think of while using it on the blades was this would make sanding overlays a snap. A couple of my Bowers friends use the same setup with excellent results.
Tron - I have used Kwick-It super glue and the first time it was awesome but the second time I used it on both the nocks and overlays I had a nock break loose after a few shots. So I got a little nervous and went back to smooth-on.
Do you use the super glue on nocks also? Have you had issues.
I assume everyone feathers out the ends of your overlays before gluing? I find that about .030 is a good thickness for overlay pieces. You got to clamp then down tight. I use a spindle sander with 320 grit to thin the ends even more where they fade in until I just touch the glass then it is hand sand to finish. Here is one method to insure they are clamped down tight.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/crookedstic/Shortbow/DSC01601_zps8d9c2fe9.jpg)
Walt, what do you mean by an air drum and buffer? Thanks, Bob
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg1000/g/g8749.jpg
Is this it?
TTT
QuoteOriginally posted by Canadabowyer:
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg1000/g/g8749.jpg
Is this it?
yes. :thumbsup:
Robert, that is the general setup Doug has, though his is more heavy duty.
Crooked Stick, your overlay Air hose form is almost identical to mine.
I do use super glue for both the nocks and the overlays. I have had them crack off if I extend the overlay too far into the fadeout of the riser. I haven't had any problems with nocks coming off.
I used cyano gel and after some shooting, the tip overlays began coming loose where they feather into the glass. Nothing but smooth on for me now.
I glue them on square while the blank is full width, no prefeathering or rounding... then after I cut the bow to shape, it takes me just a few minutes to shape the tips and overlays with the drum sander and hand tools. I work away from the limb glass towards the tip,
The last couple bows I preglued the overlays together and to match the bend of the back of the riser before gluing them to the bow. This is done by wrapping the riser in celephane to keep it from adhering and using inner tubes tightly wound as clamps.
Once set it comes off as a single piece that I can take to the sander to prefade the ends as much as possible. The rest of the sanding/feathering is done after it is attached to the riser back.
Still a pain but I like the results better.
Thanks for all the help guys. Overlays can drive me crazy at times. :knothead: :bigsmyl: Bob
I run the hose on the back of the bow and glue on all the overlays and tips at the same time I glue up the bow or limb (if its a 3 pic). I know you will all cringe but I use an angle grinder with a paint removal disk (like a hard sponge) to do most of the blending with the limb glass. Super fast and works great if you are careful. I finish with an abrasive cloth used in a shoe shine motion or by pulling under my thumb.
Bonner