Hi all, I've used mostly krylon acrylic from rattle cans most recently, and sometimes hand rubbed tru-oil, but what's a good finish one could use in a air sprayer, that finishes satin, or flat, and will set up on the rosewoods?
Anyone? I know there's guys out there that at lots more knowlegable on finishing than I am.
I used Fullerplast for many years, but switched to Thunderbird epoxy and prefer it.
does it cure on woods like c'bolo and b'cote?
Some bowyers I know have switched from Thunderbird to poly that is water clean up.
They use regular sprayers. Say they like it just as well.
I second the Thunderbird epoxy.I use the satin,for a gloss finish don't stir up the solids as much.I can lay down 5 coats in about 45 minutes,waiting a little between coats.I let that dry overnight,then ink the bow and give it 5 more.Works good on all woods here's a coco and zirocote.
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd452/wjp20977/coco1A.jpg)
Yep, Thunderbird cures hard over oily woods with no added precautions needed.
Thunderbird
I have used TB for about 3 years. I cannot get a consistent coat on my bows. How much thinner is to be used?
5 coats in 45 mins? Does it not milk up on you? I have sprayed an hour apart and the finish gets milky looking. 3 hours between coats is recommended. What is your secret?
QuoteOriginally posted by mzombek:
I have used TB for about 3 years. I cannot get a consistent coat on my bows. How much thinner is to be used?
25% for me. It all kinda depends on the area your in and humidity. The lady at TB told me that. Sorry can't remember her name. She's very helpful if you call her on the phone.
Sorry to hijack mike.
If you are looking for something easy, try ML Campbell's Krystal. It is a post catalyzed conversion varnish (similar to Fullerplast). I have used both and IMO the Krystal is much more durable. I use the gloss for sealer coats and the dull for a matt fogged finish.
It can be sprayed with a standard HVLP gun and compressor.
I have used very expensive spray guns, but found I got the same or better finish using a cheap HarborFreight gun...just keep it clean!
http://www.mlcampbell.com/products/categories/clear_topcoats/solvent_borne/postcatalyzed/krystal
http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-66222.html
I have heard good things about Krystal.
I use the Krystal dull and have been very happy with the results.
No secrets Mike,I use a Grizzly H8117 spray gun.I mix equal parts A and B,let that set for the recommended 30 minutes.Then add 25% thinner,mix and spray in light coats to avoid runs.The riser usually gets a little more as the wood tends to absorb it quickly.When I am done with first spraying the bow has an even semi gloss look.The next day or so I spray again and finish with a satin look.
Never had it look milky,you might adjust your spray gun,air flow,or volume.
I've used thunderbird, fuller plast and clear auto finish with a flex agent added. Fuller plast is the easiest to use. Thunderbird gave me problems with fisheye and cloudiness. All of them will dry over oily woods. All of them will chip when they hit something hard. The thunderbird will start to peel where the chip is if not fixed quickly. Thunderbird can peel in high wear areas eventually if the bow is sanded past 220 grit. As you can tell I'm not happy with thunderbird. I like the fullerplast as its similar to what I sprayed my cabinets with and I sprayed 1000's of gallons of conversion varnish over the last 19 years on cabinets and it holds up really good. As macbow mentioned the newer polyurethanes work great too and are easier on the environment and your body. The conversion varnish and thunderbird emit some pretty harmful fumes. I'm just down in Salt Lake and can give you some names of local companies that could get you lined up with a good sprayer and finishes.
What brand of water based poly have you guys tried?I have used a lot of it on cabinets and floors and love the stuff for those applications. Its very hard when cured and easy to work with, just never tried it on bows.T-bird just isn't working for me either and I hate the noxious fumes. Bob
Interested to hear myself what water based will work?
After completely stripping and sanding my 1964 Bear Tamerlane I used 4 light coats of MOHAWK E-Z Vinyl Sealer (spray can)from local wood shop with light sanding between coats then final 4 coats of MOHAWK PRE-CATALIZED CLEAR LACQUER (spray cans) and the finish looks great and is holding up very well. The area on the right side of the bow above the BEAR coin is an INLAY I put in the riser to cover 3 terribly unsightly screw holes that the previous owner tried to fill but did an awful job of it. I like the inlay a lot better than the ugly holes.
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/Golfbuddy45/BearTamerlanesmall1_zps46c62269.jpg)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/Golfbuddy45/BearTamerlanesmall2_zps4067b8bc.jpg)
GB45
Bringing this back up to see if anyone has any experience with the waterbased finishes and what brand. Bob
would the water based finish raise the grain and be a problem?
I've been using System Three's WR-LPU for over a year now and I really love it.
It's a marine grade water based finish that uses a catalyst to increase it's durability. (In my opinion it's as durable as the 2 part epoxy finish)
I've used just about every type of finish for bows, including the ones listed previously in this thread. Of all the finishes I've used, I like WR-LPU the best for a satin finish (I prefer 2 part automotive urethane for a high gloss finish).
There's a little bit of a learning curve getting used to how it sprays since it's water based, but once you get the hang of it, it works excellent for bows.
It's durable, flexible, dries fast, has a nice satin sheen with no milkiness, and has absolutely no volatile odors. (you could spray it in your home and your wife wouldn't even know it :biglaugh: )
It's not cheap to buy, but I've found that you usually get what you pay for.
This is where I buy mine...
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=70&familyName=System+Three+WR-LPU+Linear+Polyurethane+Topcoat+
It's actually cheaper to buy it from Jamestown than it is directly from System 3. If you get on Jamestown's mailing list, they send out free shipping offers about once a month. When I'm about out of finish, I keep an eye on my in-box for their free shipping code and then buy the finish when I can get it with free shipping. That probably saves an extra $15 or $20. :)
When I finish a bow, I seal and fill all wood surfaces with automotive urethane because I like the way it fills and sands.
After everything is filled and sealed the way I like it, I sand it down with 320 and spray the whole bow with 3 coats of the satin WR-LPU (about 1 to 2 hours between coats).
I let it dry for 2 to 3 hours and then lightly spot sand any imperfections or little goobers out with 1000 grit, and then put 2 very light mist coats on the bow (10 to 15 minutes between coats).
The next day it's ready to put in the box and ship out to the customer.
A few things to keep in mind when using it...
-Have very good lighting so you can see exactly how it's going on the bow (it's very easy to spray it too heavy, resulting in runs and sags)
-It's best to use a spray gun with a pressurized cup because it is a thicker than most solvent based finishes (I use a Fuji HVLP turbine sprayer with a pressurized cup)
-Thin it with distilled water (4 parts finish to 1 part water). Make sure the catalyst is mixed in the water before it's added to the finish. Use 8 drops of catalyst for every ounce of finish (not including the amount of water you're adding).
-Don't spray it on heavy or it will run and sag. The water in it doesn't evaporate as fast as a solvent would, so spray on light coats. It initially has a "orange peel" texture when it's wet, but it will level out as it dries. This takes some getting used to if you accustomed to spraying solvent based finishes.
Here's one of the end results of spraying the WR-LPU...
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/recurvecrafter/2013no22-1_zps48688fb0.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/recurvecrafter/media/2013no22-1_zps48688fb0.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/recurvecrafter/2013no22-9_zpsbd45de2b.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/recurvecrafter/media/2013no22-9_zpsbd45de2b.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/recurvecrafter/2013no2209_zpsa5a4fe18.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/recurvecrafter/media/2013no2209_zpsa5a4fe18.jpg.html)
I hope this info is helpful to any of you guys who are interested in trying a good quality water based bow finish. I wish that I would have found this stuff years ago.
Good info Brandon and thank you. I'll see If something similar is to be found on this side of the "pond" Bue--. :thumbsup:
I use the two part epoxie that I sell (also known as TB) It is incredibly tough as most everybody here knows and seals much better than most of the others. yes, it is a little slower to dry, but you can't rush quality.
We also started selling Krystal and it is a "Good Enough" finish that is very easy to use and dry very fast. It is also less expensive. Definately not as durable as the "Buffalo Hide" epoxy, but friendlier fo the user. You can pretty well finish a bow in a day Vs. two to three with epoxie.
Having said that, we still only use the Epoxie. Understand that there is no perfect finish. With everyone you will give up something. Some are tougher but more dificult to use or take longer to complete and others are easier and dry quicker but not nearly as flexible or scratch resistant.
The "Buffalo Hide" works on ALL types of woods even the most oily of exotics.
BigJim
I have found Marine Spar Varnish to be the best and toughest finish. Also one of the hardest to do as the dry time is long. Like someone said , quality doesn't come cheap. It also will not dry on the oily woods so have to pre seal them with a sealer that will. generally with me that is the much hated(by me) cyanoacrylate. Be sure if you use this stuff that you have pleanty of ventelation.
God bless, Steve
I have used all of the above other than water based. I am not a patient dude so I have settled on conversion varnish. I am currently using Krystal but have also had great luck with Sherwin Williams CV. Either will allow you to complete a finish job in less than 2 hours if its warm where you are spraying.I use a $14 spray gun from harbor freight. I only sand to 220 grit and don't use a sealer/filler. The stuff is high in solids and levels out well in 3 coats even sanded to only 220. I think if you are patient you can get a more durable finish with other products but I'm not. I also have never sold a bow so if I give one away and the finish chips I don have to worry about my professional reputation.
Bonner
I know it don't spray on but the easiest finish to work with is Danish oil simple to use just wipe on wipe off don't peel when sanding and just wipe before it dries completely if you want a dull finish.
I have sprayed many cabinet doors myself and many woodworking projects and have always used lacquer but its too hard of a finish that it becomes brittle, so no good for anything that bends, also it has chipped at times when an arrow hit the bow when nocking an arrow.
I have used min wax polyurethane which is a super tough finish but I'm not fond of the drying time and how hard it is to not get dust to dry in it.
I'm also always looking for a product that has all the PERFECT qualities: easy to spray fast drying able sand flexible and hard while being able to stand up to abuse.
I always get excited when ppl start talking bow finishes hoping that some new great product has come out...... But for now ill stick with Danish oil.
I'm going with sixby on this one. I like the spar varnish too. Here in Utah with zero humidity a coats dry in 4-5 hrs. I like the durability of it and have used it on a lot of exterior wood doors and shutters.
Thanks everyone.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowjunkie:
Yep, Thunderbird cures hard over oily woods with no added precautions needed.
That is a real nice bow.