Ok here we go. I got almost everything i need (enough to get me started) for my first attempt at a bow that involves glue. I have read every thread in existence, I believe, on building a bamboo backed ipe bow, but I will still undoubtedly need some help. so thank you all in advance. A friend gave me the ipe. its 72"x1.5"x3/8". I bought a bamboo backing, a curly maple riser block, a slat of osage, and a slat of curly maple from a guy on the ***********. i spent a hundred bucks today on a pint of unibond 800 (in the mail from 3 rivers) and a whole bunch of clamps, a 2x4 for the form, a stanly surform plane (recommended by Sam Harper) and some files and rasps. pictures to follow...
Take as many pictures as u can! I can't wait to watch!
the materials: left to right curly maple riser, maple slat, osage slat, ipe, bamboo on the 2x4
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-01_15-37-09_502_zpsdc21bcc4.jpg)
before i go further, does that ^ count as too large an image, I used the code from photobucket, and didn't upload it to this forum, im not the most computer savvy person, so I don't know if thats right?!
well, I found my own answer, hows this:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/d423c19c-5959-43d3-8cb3-7f71f24a3250_zpsa57053cf.jpg)
ok thats going to take a while to resize all my pics, I will get back on it tomorrow, sorry for the false start!
Looking forward to it!
Good luck on this adventure. I have made three successful BBO bows. Starting a new one next week when my osage slate comes in.
What style are you looking to build (R/D, just reflex, straight?
Watching. :coffee:
Looks like you have the right materials there.
pile-o-tools and a messy workshop
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/958799b7-ef5d-47cb-bde1-6be78cf36255_zpsd4099083.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/f58976d9-9300-4471-b7d1-98510795c763_zps639f077a.jpg)
those were 99 cents a piece!
ran a center line down my bamboo with a string and spring clamps for weight at each end, just like in the Poorfolk bows build along by Sam Harper. then traced out my bow shape. my dimensions are 69" tip to tip (as long as i get it and keep the nodes equidistant from the tips) 1.5" at the center and for 8 inches either side of center, tapering to a half inch at the tips. thats an 8th inch wider than i want all the way down, so i have room to play and finish later. (http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/24997922-1ac6-4900-b970-c5c58c27993e_zpsff126457.jpg)
using a belt sander to reduce the bamboo down to my outline, because i don't really have much else to do it with, works pretty good! The guy I bought it from already thinned it out and flattened it for me.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/63975454-cb66-474c-9daf-e8c6aff0ef2c_zps573698e0.jpg)
ok i got the bamboo roughed out, looking good and straight. got some thickness variation though that im not sure how to tackle. it varies from 1/16" to 1/8" on the edges, the middle of course will be thicker. i would like to thin it out some more, but its soooo flat on the bottom, and i really don't want to mess up the glue line. but im afraid that if i leave it like it is its going to overpower the ipe, or maybe create hinges where its thinner. any advice here?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/23fd6c32-96de-4dfd-bb06-90be1151dd44_zps093c1adb.jpg)
got the riser roughed out with a chop saw
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/a743b425-cc54-46d3-bc61-80d4937c67e9_zpsc6373c81.jpg)
tried to thin it a bit with a radial arm saw, wasn't happening, just started burning it. so, hand saw it is.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/dfb5b27b-b4e2-4897-806e-f85c27fa5986_zps6b82353a.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/7244d9c6-4444-4257-9b24-1ff57f0cee3a_zps8b568abe.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/09305c5a-6082-47cc-b07c-a78c258a044c_zps8831c58e.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/0c683c7e-26c4-4149-821d-bbaaea5b70df_zpsb4deeea5.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/81104014-f1d7-416f-8634-2661a87453eb_zps46b4024a.jpg)
came out pretty good!
traced out the bamboo onto the ipe, i think i want to work the ipe down close to my traced outline before glue up, but im not really sure how to tackle that either. my options are: draw knife, rasp, sander, find a bandsaw or good table saw that i can use. advice?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/71165f76-02c2-445d-bf45-40e15595b68e_zps1abe7b66.jpg)
cut off the extra 3" of ipe, thats gonna be for tip overlays, along with this shed antler.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/f621a5b4-f403-46bf-a180-f3ff61b5c849_zpsf8cdb8e0.jpg)
an interesting occurrence here, I have a node EXACTLY in the center of bow, and EXACTLY 8" from each tip. a perfectly symmetrical piece of boo. i remember reading that that doesn't happen....
haha! draw knife is NOT the way to do take my ipe down to the line. tried a test scrape at the end where i needed to remove alot of wood anyway, pulled up a giant splinter that made my heart skip a beat, kept getting bigger, didn't hit the line though.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/3b1cd1d2-3775-4bfc-bb11-3ada46487311_zps4e403f77.jpg)
the way to do it was on the sander, same as the boo, worked very nicely, right to the line.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/8e7997aa-e273-4742-8b0f-f727921d64c2_zpsf61599a7.jpg)
alright, what do you guys think about color combo.... osage or maple for the power lam?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/ea493901-dafd-41b7-8bcb-a255a30f92c4_zpsa2cabe0a.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/81c5fbaf-6f22-4d08-ae2b-c6d732e8f85f_zps57afb0f0.jpg)
too late i already picked maple!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/77411141-8636-48e8-b4c7-73d5ae9b2ef6_zps3bc483c1.jpg)
making the power lam 3 inches longer than ther riser
here is the method i devised for tapering the power lam, BTW i made it 3 inches longer than the riser. first I trued up the table on the disc sander with a square, then i trued up a piece of 2x4 with the newly square table and sander. then i clamped one end of the 2x4 to the table where it was touching the disc at one edge. I clamped the other end 1/8" from the disc, so that when i slid the maple lam in there, it got tapered from 1/8" to nothin over the 8" width of the disc. its a 16" lam. so nice continual taper from one end to the other. then i paper thinned the ends with 120 grit sandpaper.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/397ded12-a90d-4a1e-8810-671a26de8d43_zpsad571831.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/e5570e99-b632-4d17-9880-f080f0e96587_zps5d37c3ea.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/8c0c4d74-34b8-4aed-8514-6b6a9ea8bb04_zpsd94932af.jpg)
last thing i did last night was glue up the form, side posts are 4 1/2" high, so i can put the riser right on the form for lots of reflex, or build up the center to reduce the amount of reflex. maybe i can get a dry run done tonight so i can see where i need to work on the glue lines. now you guys are all caught up with me, more to come soon!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/b528a16e-6e0c-4f96-9399-e0f669fd0e42_zpsfd9eda68.jpg)
Dang,, that's one nice piece of curly maple your using in the riser.
Troy
I would have picked maple for the power lam too.
Looks great so far. :thumbsup:
Your doing very well so far.
I woulda picked osage...lolol...Naw considering your riser is maple I woulda picked the maple too. Thats a great piece of curly too. Looks great so far.
any tips on making a tip overlay out of antler? i cut out a 2+" section of tine, and i guess im going to split it down the middle, and flatten it with the sander, but the inside seams very spongy, and the hard part, the shell, isn't very thick, maybe 1/8". never cut up a shed before, didn't really know what i was up against. man that stinks!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/b549b83b-a132-48a2-9f40-a41a82149905_zps1cc01408.jpg)
We need a close up picture of the beer label please. :laughing:
The antler near the tips might be a little more solid. You might have to go with a thin piece and a bit of wood to build up the height. Also, soaking the antler with super glue could help strengthen it a bit.
Dave.
Roy, that is a mans beer! More than likely the reason you don't know what it's. it is a Sierra Nevada torpedo IPA.
That it is rmorris, that it is
Oh one of them fruity beers I see..?
hops are fruits.... right? it is very hoppy.
Looking good so far..keep em comin..
clamped it all up today just to get a feel for shape and see how all my glue lines look. i really need two more big clamps, i get a slight gap at the center above the riser and between the clamps. do you think it would be benefitial to radias the back of the riser, so that the ipe can deflex around it more naturally? do you get what im saying? I will draw a picture if i need to. anyway what do you all think about this shape?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/fb0c7f5f-b78e-4e01-b504-de0e488fd788_zps1c927c4b.jpg)
and with more clamps
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/04eae876-9b4f-4d5c-8746-08937925ccd1_zpsf23cee57.jpg)
here is a close up of my biggest glue line gap, this is at the end of my power lam, you can see light. for scale reference the ipe is 3/8" thick
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/8228d5c3-617c-4113-9fe6-57e37ef89918_zpsce8988a9.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/cedd0c2d-4772-4c08-9814-4a7d6b7bd885_zps0b7872f0.jpg)
should i work on that some more? or is that really no problem at all? im using unibond 800, the replacement for urac 185 if that helps, im not sure on that glue's gap filling properties.
Here is how you need to do it. The setup you show will prolly come out with very little reflex. And your center block is way too long. You want clamps every two inches and you want to back the boo side at glue up or else the clamps will indent the boo and it will splinter up on you while tillering. You want a smooth even joint without gaps. Unibond800 will be perfect and it has gap filling properties.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7439.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7438.jpg)
Video in link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGXmqFxUjHU
Roy is that a bend in the handle bow, or do you glue your riser on separately? I am going to use about twice the clamps on it as are shown in the picture, and my clamps all have rubber pads on them, do i need to pad under them more or should they be fine?
BTW, I know my riser looks massive, and I actually am going to shape it down some more before glue up, well, not shape it, but im going to take at least a half inch off the thickness, and re-grind the fades until the handle portion of the riser is 5" again. I am hoping that this will also serve to make the power lam more effective, by making it 4+" longer than the riser.
I glue the riser on after the boo/osage glue up is dry. Those padded clamps could work but in the future I would invest in metal c clamps and then use the padding. If you glue up like shown your bow is going to be flat in that area. Maybe that's the look you want.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7372.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7371.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7406.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7407.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/4c987846-9031-4718-944e-8da4ebb7bb41.jpg)
the only reason I didn't buy c clamps is i have heard alot about them getting loose in the hotbox. and although i am not using a hotbox in this build, i hope to soon attempt a glass laminate kit from binghams, i do have a couple c clamps anyway, and I think i will use them on the riser area with padding of some sort, im thinking an old belt?
I've been doing this for 10 years and never had a c clamp come loose in the hot box.
hmmm, I wonder if thats the glue... do you ever use smooth on? because i think thats the one that people use who have trouble with c clamps, i guess the glue gets runny when hot and squeezes out or seeps in to pores, and the c clamps get loose... so I have heard, but again I have zero experience.
here's a couple of pictures to illustrate what i was talking about earlier with the radiused riser, should i leave the riser back straight like this
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/riser_zpsbd5dc8f4.jpg)
or curved like this
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/riserradiused_zpsbef1fb07.jpg)
I think i may go for curved because it seems like it would be less likely to come un-glued, and would take a better reflex.. anyone?
I don't use smooth on for wood to boo glue ups. So I have no clue if it would do that.
I would use the curved.
i think so too. off to build a giant compass....
hey my glue will be here tomorrow! I don't know if i will be ready for glue-up yet though, i'll be working on it as much as i can, but weekends over tomorrow so that might slow me down.
Before you try cutting your riser might want to do like Roy does or I do. Way better doing the handle riser after the boo power lam and Ipe are glued. Then use the bow to trace on to the riser.
I use 1/4 inch or less slats and glue them on after the bow is cured and,cleaned up.
I find it easier than matching the curve of the bow handle area.
On your gap at the power lam.
The glue,will fill it if you make,sure there is,plenty in that area . And clamp well.
To help with the gap the end of the power lam has to be so thin you can almost see through it.
Listen to Roy n the other veterans.... They steered me in the right direction and will do the same for u
You. More clamps you can put on the better. If you don't have enough clamp you can always wrap the limbs with bike tire strips after you secure the bow to the form first with your quick clamps.
Just a thought...
ok i think thats what i will do, glue up everything but the riser and tip overlays, maybe tomorrow. i'll get to work setting up the form more like Roy's, and maybe put together another dry run tonight. if i do i will get a picture up so i can get your thoughts on the shape. thanks for all the help everyone!
Bowhuntineverythingnh03743, phew that was a mouthful, don't worry im listening! i think i have plenty of clamps, and i will use as many as will fit, and if i got room for any more i may go get some more.
Hahaha ya thats a long name.... Justin is better lol... Ya have to put up with Roy's old fart ways but man what a great guy. I email him almost every day and have a blast chatting with him. Your on the right track and will do well. Be careful with that ipe.... I didn't think that stuff was going to be as rough as the old guys say and boy did it kick my butt.
you mean the allergy stuff?
i have been wearing a dust mask, long sleeves and gloves when im working with it. and the bamboo too. I have done enough damage to my lungs and i have enough problems with my skin... I don't need to take chances!
Well I see twinkle toes Justin has warned ya and you are doing well protecting yourself. But I'm gonna post this anyway:)
One word of caution here, Eric. IPE is known to give some folks a severe reaction. I was one of those and it messed me up bad. So use all the precaution you can. Rubber gloves, a good respirator, shop air ventilation, and wash your face, hands, and any exposed skin after you work on the bow.
I really think you should leave the riser out of the glue up process and just do the boo and IPE. That will let the riser section acquire a nice curve on it's own. After your glue up is dry, DO NOT CUT THE BOW OUT YET... Take a 13 inch long riser section, a little wider than your handle area, lay the riser section on it's side and lay the bow on top of the riser section and trace out the curve onto the riser block. Then cut that curve out as close as you can get to the line. Then sand it perfectly to the line. I don't know how you laid out you bow profile, but I make mine with equal length limbs and the center of my 4 inch handle is the center of the bow and the center of my 13 inch riser aligns with the center of the bow/riser. Just like this picture below.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7371.jpg)
Eric, can't wait to see the finished product
Roy, kinda taste like a pine tree, I prefer to be able to float a horse shoe in my beer.
Roy thats exactly what I'm planning on now, the bow glue up/cut-out that is. so far so good with the ipe. can the reaction be delayed or acquired?
rmorris, I can't wait to see it either!
Then I cut it out like this.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6497bow.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6497.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6477.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7427.jpg)
My reaction to IPE was instant, well I was exposed to it for like 8 hours, then my face was burnt, my eye lids and eye brows were swollen like crazy. And now my immune system is over reacting to things that never bothered me in years, and it was 3 years ago that I got the initial reaction.
Your immune system is breaking down Roy because yer OLD!!! lol
I was coughing and hacking and itching for three days... all set now but haven't touched the stuff since. Got a nice ipe board too just hanging around not being used. May try to cut a thin slat from it and use it as a core someday.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/d296cdb1-0444-4097-946b-4777224bda3c_zps194e7557.jpg)
hows this for shape? should i move the end posts on my form all the way out to the tips? i left them short so i could get clamps on the tip overlays, but thats gonna be a separate glue up now.
That could work but you have to understand that when you take the bow out of the clamps, it will spring back and lose some reflex. Your going to have to experiment and see what works for you. I would move them to the end and pull down a little more at mid limb to a solid post. Just like I showed in my form pictures. You do not add the tip overlays until the bow is cut out.
i do understand that it going to spring back, and i am going to put a solid post under mid limb. im thinking a piece of 2x3 on it's side. going to move my end posts out to the tips today, and install the mid limb posts. then the glue will have to dry on that, so i will maybe start getting tip overlays ready even though im not there yet. current plan for tip overlays is 1/8" x 1/2" x 2" layers of ipe and maple, maple on top. then i think should glue the two layers together and taper them down together where they will fade into the bamboo. then i can glue the pre-semi-shaped tip overlays on as one piece, and have minimal sanding shaping to do to the fades. does that sound like a plan?
so my form will be ready to go again tomorrow, and maybe i can get the final, no foolin, dry run done tomorrow night.
Is it desirable to have the mid limb clamps at mid limb? or are should i think about putting them closer to the tips or the handle? I know those are things to expirement with for my self, but i kinda want this first bow to keep to tried and true methods and dimensions.
Sounds like a plan and yes put the mid limb posts at mid limb for your first one.
Thanks Roy
Roy is giving you great advice.
Some thoughts on the mid limb post.
Toward the middle (mine are usually 16 inches from center) is good for a hunting type bow.
Moving them towards the tips is more for a target style bow.
Sort of a power vs speed thing.
I don't add tip overlays till after the bow,is almost finished.
Just put the string grooves on as needed with the tips a little wide still. Go through the whole tillering,and,shooting in process. Tip overlays are almost last. No use wasting material and time till you have a shooter.
Good to know macbow, yeah I was only going to work on tip overlays so I had something to do while my glue was drying on the form. For the sake of my curiosity, and not because im going to go for one or the other with this bow, but what do you mean by speed vs power? in my mind they are the same thing, unless... here is a question, totally unrelated to the build along...
can two bows (hypothetical bows) shoot identical arrows at identical speeds, but one of the bows perform better with HEAVIER identical arrows? for example, bow 1 and bow 2 shoot a 500 gr arrow 170fps, but with 600 gr arrows bow 1 shoots 160 fps, and bow 2 shoots 150 fps?
just something i pondered when i was pondering your meaning of the word "power"
I'm not going to get into talking about speed too much.
Mainly because I don't know.
But the bow with the bend towards the center will certainly handle heavier arrows better, maybe not faster.
The one,with the bend towards the tips will be faster with light arrows.
The kids,bows I build I'll sometimes move towards the tips because they are pretty light weight helps zing those light arrows well.
thats pretty interesting. i only used speed because i know no other way to measure performance, i wonder if anyone has done any tests to measure the difference in performance with the curves in different portions of the limbs. just going to put mine right smack in the middle and call it good.
This time just make notes on where you put the blocks.
Like I said I measure from center.
Then down the road you can experiment. Mine at 16 inches from center on,a,68 inch bow,are not quite center.
But if I chop off a inch or two to make weight then they are .
thats what im going to do, keep a journal, because i get the feeling im not going to be able to stop once this one is done. already thinking about the next one!
wish i could work more on it during the week. i got the form adjusted and the glue is drying. I am on duty over night tomorrow, so i probably won't get to do the glue up til Thursday. thats ok, no need to rush, but im pretty excited about it.
Compared to having the mid limb posts centered at mid limb, the following is fact.
By moving the mid limb posts closer to the riser, you cause more of the limb to work when shooting an arrow. Thus that design will cast a heavier arrow, not necessarily faster, but the bow has more thrust to propel a heavier arrow.
By moving the mid limb posts out more towards the limb tips, you cause less of the limb to be working, and with that design it will cast a lighter arrow faster because less of the limb is working and it recovers quicker.
So basically you need to decide what style of bow you want before ya glue it up. So a happy starting point for a new bowyer would be mid limb. And yes take notes. Wish I had taken notes. Still think I should start taking notes. But I'm old and keep forgetting to leave myself a note to start taking notes:) LOL
And while I am typing, Thank You For Your Service To Our Country. ^5
Thanks and you're welcome Roy, but there are no thanks required. You have all already thanked me by paying your taxes and giving me a paycheck to buy bowbuilding supplies!
well before i left for work yesterday morning i threw it on my newly dry form to see what the shape looked like. I like it. not extreme curves by any means, but thats not what im going for. what do you guys think? the center posts are actually half an inch closer to the center than the tips, doesn't look that way in the picture though. Tomorrow Im working the night shift, so i will have all day to my self, wife and kids at work and school, so I should be able to get the glue lines perfect on my power lam (i know its probably fine, but it bugs me) and get her glued up. got my unibond 800 from three rivers on monday... has anyone used it yet? what mix did you use and was that by vol or weight? it gives a "slow" mix and a "fast" mix... would i be right in assuming slow is better? also, it says 70 degrees and up for curing.... my house stays about 65 this time of year, and the basement (workshop) about 60. I plan on leaving the bow on the form for over 24 hrs anyway, so do you think 65 would be fine, or should i stick it in the bathroom with a space heater for a day, and get it up to 80 something? thats what I am leaning towards.... but it will come with complaints from my wife about "running up the bill" and leaving all my "archery crap" around :dunno:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-05_04-24-32_957_zpsfe028686.jpg)
Looking good Eric,
You will loose just a little of the bend when the clamps come off.
Be,sure to start clamping,at the middle and work towards each tip. I clamp the middle then add a couple of,spring clamps on each side. Then concentrate on the ends of the power lams with some,small c clamps. Then the mid limb clamps.
As for the temp. It really does make a difference. It will set up at 65 but will be a,little soft. I put a 100 watt light near the middle under a wire basket then cover it all up with sleeping bags.
Alternative would be to take it from the form after a,day and store it in the 80 degrees for a day.
Looking great Eric. I would buy the wife a little gift for putting up with the bow in the bathroom with the space heater. The temp will make a difference in the glue curing.
When I mix up my glue I do it for the fast setting and have had no issues with it. My mixture is by weight and is as follows: 100 grains of resin to 13 grains of powder. That is what I was taught and it works so I haven't changed it since.
Use a toothing plane or a hacksaw blade if you don't have a toothing plan to put grooves in the wood before gluing. Wipe them down with a hand broom. Ipe is really oily and if you put anything on it it will draw more oils to the surface. Make sure you coat both the boo and ipe with glue before putting them together. I put a good coat of glue on each and when I squeeze them together with clamps the extra just comes out but make sure you wrap the bow in plastic wrap or freezer paper (shiny side towards the bow) to help with keeping a clean work area. Use some sort of blocks or rubber stripping to protect the belly and boo from the clamps. Set it aside and then find something to do with your time while the glue cures. I go stir crazy waiting of the glue to set up.
Just what I have been taught with all this so far. Take it or leave it but your bow is look good... Keep up with the pictures.
Respectfully,
Justin
.
I think it looks great.
ok, this is how she's getting glued up. i thinned the ends of the power lam a bit more, can see light through it. I also talked my self into thinning down the thicker end of the boo. to do this i ran it down the disc sander a couple of times, and then smoothed it all out with a palm sander. glue lines still look good.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_07-25-28_353_zps8645c4e1.jpg)
i scored the back of the ipe with a hacksaw blade and then wiped it down with acetone. now im getting the kids dressed and off to school and then i will get the glue out. wish me luck! any more tips before glue up send them now! i should be getting sticky in an hour or two!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_07-37-29_599_zps0beaaffc.jpg)
bowhnteverthing, by the label, should be 100:10 for fast, or 150:10 for slow. i don't know much about glues, and im just going to go 100:10 for easy math. but what is the actual difference between your 100:13, and 100:10 or 150:10? one mix more brittle than another?
Blow the dust off and wipe down with a rag and denatured alcohol.
denatured alcohol, or acetone? I already did the ipe with acetone, but i have denatured alcohol too...
I do the 100:10 ratio but found that the glue is thinner than I like so I just add three extra grains of powder and have had no problems with it. Its not as runny but still a liquid. If that makes sense.
Acetone will draw up more oils so make sure it is completely dry before gluing it up. Rub it down real good with a clean rag.
Is your boo roughed with the hacksaw blade as well. If not make sure that is done too. Make sure you add glue both to the boo and ipe then put them together. I usually will wrap a piece of masking tape around the mid limb area and in the center so that the boo won't move.
Good Luck!!!
ok i roughed up all glue surfaces except for the last two inches of power lam, because its so thin i didn't want to tear through it. wiped down all glue surfaces with denatured alcohol (man that ipe and curly maple are pretty when wet!) and im giving it a few minutes to dry while i get ready to mix up glue. how much should i mix for the bow? im thinking a snack pack cup, 3/4 full? i don't care if i have to much, but i don't want to mix more half way through application.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_09-43-22_58_zps6c8ec3a8.jpg)
Probably too late to help.
I mix about 800 or 900 for this style.
Tuna fish cans make excellent mixing containers.
Hot water can be used to clean everything while still,wet.
macbow i mixed up 1400. i did have some extra but i don't care. photobucket seems to be having a hard time resizing my pictures, but i will post them in a second when they are done. glue up went off without a hitch, its now in the bathroom with the space heater set on 80.
so i mixed up the glue in a snack pack cup using a pencil, and used the pencil to spread the glue. covered all surfaces, piling it on in my known gaps (ends of the powerlam). stacked the pieces, and taped them together with frog tape near the tips and at the ends of the power lam. i draped 7' of saran wrap across the form, and layed her on there, and wrapped the saran wrap around the bow, just so it didn't get glued to the form or the clamps. clamped from the middle out, making sure everything stayed lined up.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_10-16-30_492_zps6a9c546e.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_10-16-16_450_zps3706be3e.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_10-20-55_578_zps19d959cd.jpg)
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(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-07_10-28-59_267_zpsa0042fd2.jpg)
BTW I used small c clamps with pieces of paint stirrer sticks for padding on the ends of the power lam, because i found that closed up the gap better than the spring clamps.
Good job, bet the wait to take it out of the clamps is gonna drive ya crazy:)
well it won't be too bad, i will be busy, gonna sit down now and watch the "bowhunters of tradgang" i just got in the mail, then ill head off to work at 3, night shift tonight, day shift tomorrow, 6 hrs in between to sleep, and will be ready to take it out tomorrow after work. gonna pick up a 2x4 on the way home to make my tillering tree, and stop by the archery club to borrow the scale for a while (i should really buy my own!)
Kudos Eric very well done sir.
Looking good.
After you wrestle the,plastic off. I use my disc sander to clean,up the edges. It will leave sanding marks but I use other sanders to,clean those up.
There will probably be some brittle glue on the back of the bamboo. I use the back side of a knife to scrape it off.
thats pretty much how i envisioned it to go macbow. question though, i have seen some peoples bamboo backed bows where they sanded the back of the boo, and cleaned up the nodes. is that adviseable, or does that create risk of splinters and bamboo failure?
Yes clean off the little curly ruff edge of the node, sand paper will do that. The rine on the back of the boo will not take a stain, so I sand the rine off, but you just want to barely sand it off and not sand down into the power fibers. It's even ok to leave little thin streaks here and there on the back when sanding the rine off, gives the bow a neat appearence. Sand the limb edges of the boo so ya don't leave any square or crisp edges, sand the belly side of the bow edges also. You want the bow to have smooth round edges.
perfect ok that's what i was thinking. thanks Roy. I may have to name this bow after you guys, all the help you have been.
the only other thing i do for my glue ups, is that i tape all the edges of the wood with masking tape, and over the top of the backing,
sure makes clean up a ton easier, and neater.
I'd agree on the tape, but me and tape just don't get along very well.
For future glue ups. Tools I like.
Popsicle sticks for stirring, acid brushes, and a little one inch plastic looking roller they sell in the paint department .
I use the acid brush to dab on glue and the,little roller to spread it out. Hot water clean up for all.
Great job so far Eric. I use a scraper to take off the rine of the boo. You can definately tell when you are taking off just the rine. It is a beautiful little darker color. I use a scraper cuz it seems like I never dig deep enough to get into the power fibers.
Keep the pics coming... its fun to see someone else working on their first
Thanks Justin, hey could I trouble you for a picture of the kind of scraper you use? i see people talking about scrapers, and I'm just not sure exactly what sort of tool they are talking about.
a sharp cabinet scraper is the best thing I've found to remove the rind from bamboo. has numerous other uses in making wooden bows, too. is indispensable to me. should be one, or two in every bow makers tool kit.
why didn't you just glue your power lam to your core first, then you could have sanded the ends in perfectly before you glued on the backing?
A scraper looks like this.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/02Z09.jpg)
There are many styles, though but the flat ones work great for bow work.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=+cabinet+scraper+&qpvt=+cabinet+scraper+&FORM=IGRE
JF Miller.... that would have been a great idea ti have a couple days ago!
I have a nice piece of Ipe and Boo that I will make into a bow some day. I am getting a lot of great info from this thread. Can't wait to see the rest of the journey.
The reason I don't glue the power lam to the core first is another day of glue drying.
Also the match of the power lam to the core is not much of a problem, the "fit" that is more difficult is the bamboo over the power lam.
The longer the transition the easier, but if too long and thin then the job the power lam provides could be nullified.
Macbow, by glueing the power lam to the core prior to backing, you have the oportunity to sand the ends of the powerlam for a totally smooth transition onto the core, thus eliminating the problem of voids in your glue joint at the ends of the power lam when you glue backing to core. I'm seldom on a schedule to complete a bow as I build them mostly for my own amusement, so watching glue dry isn't a big deal for me. still, is just cause for having 3 or 4 bows in progress all the time, which I do. always something to do thataway. otherwise, it's a good excuse to turn the dog loose and get some fresh air.
E, with the vast knowledge and experience present here, I'm surprised nobody else suggested it. maybe it's a closely guarded bench secret. well, not now I guess. :dunno: :D
WARNING! GLUE GOBS MAY BE RAZOR SHARP WHEN CURED!
Haha, went to break off a long glue gob that had ran down a wrinkle in the plastic wrap, impaled my thumb. live and learn. anyway,here she is. I do believe she will have a little string follow, thats ok. live and learn. off to clean it up a bit and trace my line for the riser.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_11-55-40_508_zps3b066d90.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_11-54-15_487_zps42b4cb51.jpg)
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ok, so... another day of waiting on glue to dry... or should i take the bow down to dimensions BEFORE i glue on the riser? its about 1/8" too wide throughout the whole length. riser is a whisker wider than that... maybe 3/16" to wide, im gonna wait on a recommendation or two before i mix any glue
Razorback thank you, I am really glad this is helpful to someone, its been super helpful to me, just having a couple of people paying attention to the build keeps me from getting distracted. both my self bows i have built took 6 months each, just because i would stop working on them for weeks at a time. i have been really putting in the hours on this one.
Looks nice and I meant to tell ya about the glue cuts fingers like a razor blade, sorry I forgot.
Glue the riser on first then cut out the bow. Looks like you have a lot of deflex and could have used more reflex, but it will be a sweet shooter. I never use a power lam, maybe that's the difference. I'm thinking your riser post should have been shorter or your mid limb posts higher. My center post is 3 3/4 and my mid limb posts are 2 3/4.
ya Roy you are exactly right about the deflex. next one i will make my end posts higher or center and mid posts lower, im still pretty happy with it though.
My center post like I said above is 3 3/4, mid limb posts 2 3/4 and end posts are 6 inches. But I don't have my end posts cut on an angle like yours, mine are flat on top so I gain some height over yours there. Also I can slide my end posts in towards the limb to get even more reflex. What I do at glue up is measure the reflex at each end and slide the posts inward to make each limb the same height. Also the pressure from clamping can push your end posts out, so clamp them down solid to the base of your form so they don't move.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6962.jpg)
It just takes a few bow's and you will get the hang of things, but you did excellent for your first glue up. Not bad for a Navy Boy... LOL :jumper:
scored the glue surfaces of both riser and ipe, then wiped down with denatured alcohol, still a little wet here, but dry by the time i got my glue mixed up.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_13-16-35_999_zps72c1e1b3.jpg)
mixing up the glue... very precisely.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_13-26-01_53_zps8c9e4e38.jpg)
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(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_13-30-07_957_zpsc50e2430.jpg)
apply a generous coating to each surface...
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_13-35-14_801_zpsf68ec919.jpg)
then you just "Set it.... and forget it!" LOL
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_13-45-16_317_zpsd6f826e3.jpg)
Im going to monitor this for a while and make sure it doesn't get too hot, I will move the heater back a bit if i need to.
I didn't feel like it was warm enough around the back side, so... a little hi-tech engineering:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_14-23-02_770_zpsb12ef4e7.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-08_14-23-11_402_zpsdf51daea.jpg)
its a Super Whamodyne Thermal Energy Reflector.... and in true Navy fashion, I will call it the SWTER. (pronounced sweater) its clever because it makes things warmer... like a sweater.
:biglaugh: :jumper: :laughing:
Ah I see ya got a good scale, it's zactly like mine.. Did ya tare out the weight of the dish first? Then tare out the powder? Ya got it set on grams or grains? Hope that doesn't get too hot on ya.. Or poof:)
no i didnt tare it out... i figured it in. i was afraid it would shut off whilst i was adding weight and mess me up.... so i just measured 80 gr of cup... 300 of resin... and 30 of hardner for a 10:1 ratio. I have been watching the temp, feels about like 80-85 in there to me.
Ya got a string for that bow and a tillering string?
not yet. I've always tillered with clothesline cord.... then when i get the limbs bending good i tie bowline knots in it and experiment till i get a good brace height. then make a string to that length.... any reason i shouldn't do it that way?
Well I was gonna make ya some strings, but since ya make strings then your set:) But cloths line cord doesn't excite me for tillering:)
well i appreciate the thought! i know how to do an endless loop.... need to learn the flemish twist... it might be part of this buildalong... who knows. whats your concern with clothesline cord? strength? the stuff i have is a natural fiber... might be cotton... and just a teeny bit wider than a normal sized served endloop. real strong stuff.... actually used it for a string on my first selfbow for a few hundred shots before i learned to make a string! dont gasp!
I guess if it works then use it.
Gasp.. :laughing:
ok, i was just wondering if there was some reason i shouldn't that i hadnt thought of. like i said im only using it for the long string.... but maybe ill just make up a long b50 endless loop.
You could also make up an extra long string and use the Bowyers Knot for the bottom loop to adjust it to any length you need while tillering or shooting.
maybe I will do that. bowyer's knot? I stand ready to learn!
Do a search on the internet or you tube, lots of info there on the bowyers knot.
I recommend Sam Harper's "Poorfolksbows" website for a good Flemish twist tutorial. Endless loops are fine but there is just something sexy about doing the twist.
out of the SWTER and cleaned up a bit
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-09_09-45-35_410_zpsd743bf73.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-09_09-45-16_10_zps6d110510.jpg)
hey it kinda looks like a bow don't it!
Looks good dude.
ohhhhhh.... a timber hitch. gotcha.
built me a tiller tree, actually, i permanently installed it in my basement workshop.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-09_12-56-42_469_zpsf2dd0432.jpg)
drew the bow out again on the ipe, exact dimensions this time, 1 1/4" at the handle to 3/8" at the tips, sanded down close to the line with the belt sander, will take it the rest of the way by hand. really happy with the glue lines. no gaps and no ugly spots. can't really see so good in the picture.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-09_13-02-17_386_zpsfbaed3dc.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-09_13-02-48_101_zpsef2ab8a9.jpg)
Damn, you must of had a good mentor/mentors:)
nope, no help from anyone! ;) :notworthy:
LOL..
But you did it all yourself with no one looking over your shoulder and ya did well for a Navy Guy:)
Roy, you keep slapping youself on the back like that, you'll get a cramp. ;)
Good looking bow E.
Dave.
That's ok Dave, I'll just pop a Midol pill:)
Man they ARE some nice glue line's. Roy is doing you right but try not to get him to excited or he might take naked pics again :scared: :scared: Keep up the great work-Joe
LMAO
maybe I will do the final full draw pic in a loin cloth
finished sanding to the line and then filed in the string nocks.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-10_17-39-34_306_zps367aa823.jpg)
put it on the tree and pulled it an inch or two.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-10_17-37-05_646_zpsb6aacd20.jpg)
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sorry about the camera being angled different on each picture. would be nice to have a camera and tripod instead of my phone. so anyway, it looks like its bending pretty even thus far, and i don't want to bend it further until i remove some wood, very stiff, lots of wood to remove. where should i start the removal? its 3/8" thick the whole length. should i just take off an even amount down the whole limb? or more toward the tips?
yeah Roy... that's clothesline. :eek:
On r/d bows i like to start at the tips and leave the fades for the last 5 lbs.Go slow.Ipe always seems to drop weight all at once.I had one bbi that finished out at 1/4" thick at the end of the fades.Stuff is tuff.Good luck--Joe
I agree. I stay away from the fades till it is obvious they need work.
If you haven't tillered a R/D yet the main removal is going to be at the reflexed area out to the tips.
Since it is real stiff yet you could remove wood on each limb and just keep working it on the floor tiller till it shows some bending.
Once you get it to a short string be careful, as you remove wood it will look like nothing is happening then BAM there it is.
what would you begin wood removal with? the surform plane?
Hard to tell by the pic's,do you have all the edges rounded off and the boo cleaned up and sanded smooth? If not do it now so it is less likely to lift a splinter when it starts bending.This will take some weight off also. You can use the surform now but smooth out the limb with a scraper before you pull on it--Joe
good call millhimes. ok well tomorrow i will get the boo cleaned up. I'm just going to use a sharp knife at a 90 degree angle as a scraper for the boo. i will round off the edges with a fine toothed file. and smooth up the whole back with some fine sandpaper. any tips for the boo cleanup? i have the impression that i need to remove the rind... and that will leave that browner... richer color that's underneath.... and that's the power fibers? as far as smoothing the belly after removing wood with the surform... wouldn't hand sanding be just as good for that as a scraper?
Eric,yes you want to remove the rind.A knife will scrape the rind right off just go slow and you will know when you hit the good stuff.Don't take the nodes off tho.Just clean them up with sandpaper.
Sanding will work fine after rasping i just like the scraper.It removes the marks quickly and doesn't make dust--Joe
Wow Eric that is looking awesome! Your doing quiet well for your first one. My glue lines aren't even that good. Well done!
Take your time tillering it out!
when should i glue on the tip overlays? after cleaning up the boo and before getting to far into tillering? and what kind of glue would you guys use? its going to be ipe and maple overlays... and I'm thinking tb3.
sorry so many questions... I'm just scared of messing it up at this point.
I wait till the bow is shoot able before adding the tip overlays. First reason is sometimes I pike (cut off some) to reach weight.
After I add the overlays I shape and reduce the tips and last 6 inches of the limb tips. Narrower and,thicker is my goal.
The lighter the tips the less hand shock.
The scraper will be your number one tool. Caution, the easiest mistake to make is starting the,scraper in the same,spot too often. It is easy to have a,dished area that will turn into a hinge.
Dean Torges method is to draw a,line 1/8 inch in on the face of the limbs on all sides. Then another on the side edges. Then remove those four corners after this you,start on the flat,surfaces. Once wood is,removed so that most of this facet is removed you do it over again.
When using the scraper count your strokes and repeat on each limb. This will help to even things out.
A board with sandpaper or a flat disc palm sander in between scraping can help keep things flat.
Just to repeat, the easiest mistake is to get a thin area and this a hinge .
scraped off the rind with my buck knife held at 90 degrees, worked really well. the "wood" is much much harder than the rind, and its easy not to dig into it. then i took a fine, flat file, and filed the back edges at a 45, then a 15 and a 75 to round them off, then sanded the edges and the entire back with 220 grit til smooth.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-11_14-54-33_440_zps736faf58.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-11_15-49-54_529_zpsbb0408b4.jpg)
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was trying to show how nice and round the edges are... but you can't tell. just believe.
Nicely done eric. That is the fun part for me.I agree with macbow,hold off on the tips untill it is shooting.No use doing them if it blows.You having fun yet--Joe
hells yeah I'm having fun! all i want to do is work on it! the wife and kids have other plans though!
I know the feeling Eric on people with other plans. It is addicting! Great job so far... you are one talented fella!
i took a few scrapes off each limb with the buck knife, to see how it would work. scraping is definitely going to be the way to tiller this stuff. good controlled wood removal. the surform just chatters across it and tries to pull up splinters on the edges. i need to get a straighter scraper than my deer cutting knife. what can i get at lowes or home depot that would fit the bill? I don't have time to wait on a delivery.... well, I do... but I don't wanna. my bow scale should be here tomorrow, and I really want to get to the short string on the tillering tree. but im going to do it the right way, and i think that means a straight scraper... or a slightly concave one maybe? definitely not convex like a hunting knife though.
i used cabinet scrapers and a mystic scraper when i made my ipe warbow. came out 124# at my 31" draw. never could get it back behind the ear like the english though. too wimpy. ;)
Holy....Moly! Thats quite the power stroke you got there timbermoose, what do you use for arrows? 3/4" oak dowels?
that one flings the 1/2" hand turned birch arrows, 34" long with 300gr forged heads. 7" feathers. buddy has it back in b.c. right now, still can't draw it to 28".
anyways, there are several woodworking stores that should have scrapers. if not you could use an old lawnmower blade. just shape it how you need and roll the edge. that's what i had for my first 10-15 bows.
Learning to use a scraper is to learn how to,sharpen them.
There are many how too Internet Infoseek on how to roll an edge.
With a straight scraper optimum use for me is a,slight bend induced as you pull it towards yourself.
I've even made a holder to make it easier.
I have several home made scrapers that work great.
I must confess my main tillering tool is a pneumatic drum sander.
Ron, sadly it's the same for me ... well a belt sander, but close enough.
how deep do you guys cut in your string nocks? left mine shallow for now, and its just barely enough to hang on to the string for tillering. and theres no goove in the back of the tips yet because im going to add overlays. I know you guys have been saying to wait til it shoots to put those on, but im not really crazy about the string only being held in place by the grooves in the sides.
I cut mine in with a chainsaw file, although a rat tail file also works, just makes a slightly bigger groove.
Generally I cut the string grooves at least as deep as half the diameter of the file. This way it's deep enough for th estring and the sides of the groove are steep enough to hold onto the string firmly.
Usually my tips are,still a,little wide when first adding the grooves. Mine start almost the full,depth of the 1/8 inch chain saw file.
If I don't pike the bow, after adding overlays and,narrowing the tips there is enough left as a pattern for final grooves..
Eric, the scraper I use, I picked up at the hardware department in Sears. I have seen them there at several stored. You can also order one from 3rivers. They can be difficult to sharpen properly, but if you work it out they are outstanding. If you don't work out the sharpening of it, drop me a line and I'll give the cheat on sharpening. Try the correct way first as it is probably better, then call me.
besides the risk of coming up light, and needing to pike the bow (honestly im not worried about it, i want 50, but if it ends up at 40#, i will be just as happy...well, almost) is there any downside to putting the tip overlays on before getting to the short string? It would really just make me feel better, because my tips are narrow, and i know they are probably alot stronger than i think they are, but that extra 1/8 - 1/4" of material will make me feel better. and just having the grooves on the sides and not on the back makes me feel like the string wants to pop out.
Razorback, thanks, yeah they do have them at sears I see, sears is far. and 35 bucks?! think i might try the meat cleaver that we have never used! its got a straight, sharp edge... why not? i mean the buck knife has been working good, and it hasn't even gotten dull yet. i haven't removed a whole whole lot of ipe, but i have gotten to about 6" of string travel with the long string, at somewhere approaching 40# by feel. i have been taking it very slow and easy, not wanting to go to far without a scale, thought it would be here today, but looks like tomorrow.
Eric,there is no reason you can't put the tip overlays on if you want to.just leave them blocky in case you need to ajust your string center by deeping one side of the nock.If you are getting 6" on the long string,time to short brace the bow and check alignment.Brace it at about 1" or so and check it--Joe
ok sounds like a plan. i got the ipe and maple layers of the tip overlays drying right now in the bathroom with the space heater, plan to have them drying on the bow tomorrow night. and i will get you guys some more pics soon. hasn't been much happening but thinkin... lots o thinkin.
Eric in the future you can a thick super glue (ca) for the tips it's all I use now.
With,an excellarator you can be shaping in 10 minutes.
On the scrapers a sharp edge is sorta not right.
With your cleaver you would start by sanding off the sharp edge making it square. Then the two corners get rolled,over.
im going to order a set of scrapers from 3 rivers on friday when i get my allowance again, along with two other colors of b50 so i can make a 3 ply flemish twist. when i get home today im going to take my tips overlays out of the heat and clean them up, prep my bow tips, and glue them on. and take pictures. tomorrow will do some rough shaping of the tips, and start tillering in earnest. may be ready for the short brace.
got my tip overlays on the bow, drying in the bathroom. getting the bow tips flat enough to mate well with them was a little tougher than i thought it would be.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_15-22-24_780_zps1f2569f2.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_15-25-47_588_zps535909ea.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_15-26-07_485_zpsef1ffa31.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_15-40-58_16_zps56dc966b.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_15-41-16_420_zps4d229707.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_15-42-19_817_zps7aa3d6f0.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-13_16-07-11_530_zps673fb0f3.jpg)
Everyting looks great so far. Your doing a fine job.
ok tips are on and roughed out.... got my scale... time to tiller!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-14_14-25-08_590_zpsa8843047.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-14_15-02-33_745_zps519aa44c.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-14_15-02-24_1_zps20ccbe3e.jpg)
here it is pulled to 44# at 4" of string travel. i only meant to pull it to 40#, but when i swapped hands to take a picture it peaked at 44, i have since learned to make the scale tell me current weight and not peak weight.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-14_15-05-38_370_zpsb32b7156.jpg)
oh and the clothes line is gone :thumbsup: I made me a long endless loop for now. i may cut one loop off and super glue the end o the serving so it doesnt unravel, that way i can use one end for a timber hitch... err... bowyer's knot. how much string travel should i shoot for before going to a short brace. and how does it look for now? looks to me like its stiff between outer and middle third on the right.... which is where my boo is thickest.
I am just a newbie but I think your long string is a bit too long. I always make my long string just long enough to get it in the string grooves.
Great job so far! Gonna be a slick one when she's done :)
Good time to practice with the scale but too early to really use it. The long string at this point is to just exercise the limbs till you can get a short string on.
Floor tillering, I'd take some more from 1/3 out from riser towards the tips till you see the The curved portion starting to straighten out. Not all the way but bending with the floor tiller.
Then it will be time for the short sting.
cardboardduck thats something i haven't considered. does the string length make a difference in tillering? would anyone else like to chime in on this? Roy?
Yes. It changes the string angle, which changes how the limbs are stressed.
You don't want to do your tips like that. The way you are doing it will add weight to the tips and slow the bow down and add hand shock. Cut them back off, it can be done. An do them this way, Please:)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6986.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6985.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6987.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6989.jpg)
Yes extra an long tillering string lies. The very first time I put a string on a bow to tiller it, I already have my string grooves cut into the bow tips, and I string the bow and the string lays real tight up against the belly of the bow. I work the bow on the tree till the tips are bending to say about 6 inches and if the limbs are bending nice and even with a sweet arc, I shorten the string to get the bow to about a 3 inch brace height. Then I keep tillering the bow till the tips are bending to about 8 or 9 inches. If the limbs still have a nice even arc I will shorten the string and get the bow to a 6 inch brace height. After that I finish tillering out the bow. Like has been said above, the shorter string you put on the bow, the more it stresses the outer 1/3 of the limbs.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/WP_000382.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7259.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/pearl4.jpg)
Roy... you are raining on my parade! this is what i was planning on going for:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/226d7d6c-e81d-4c01-a381-1382a31e5ca6_zps4020140e.jpg)
I know they look huge right now, but I was planning on reducing them way down. if you still think i should cut them off and re-do them i will. I trust your expertise.
or would this be better?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/59d5e019-3bd1-4b79-91fb-11b6000140e5_zps0b706e6f.jpg)
I'd REALLY hate to cut them off....
It's your bow, Eric. But the tips are going to look weird, kinda like some Navy guy made it:) How about like the picture below? All that extra wood isn't going to do anything for the performance of the bow.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/226d7d6c-e81d-4c01-a381-1382a31e5ca6_zps4020140e.jpg)
Do I have to come up there and smack ya, Son? :knothead:
Stop and think about this, Eric. What good is that white wood going to be above the tips? It's nothing but extra weight, extra height that is not needed. Don't mean to whizz on your parade, it's your bow and you can make it look however you want.
I'm sure all the other guys will come along and agree with me. But the bottom line is it's your bow. If you want it to look like a sissy pants Navy guy made it, then go for it:) LOL
hahahaha, cmon take it easy on me! I'm a sensitive sailor! :laughing:
alright i will cut them down like your yellow line, but i ain't cuttin em off to reglue em! the wife took her space heater back to work and im too cheap to buy one.... and it was alot of work getting them pieces to match up!
will have a new pic in a while... after the kids bath.
It will be much better trimmed down. You can use your sander to,get them close.
Roy what technique do you use to get the limb tip prepped for the overlays. How do you get it flat?
Ya don't have to cut em off, just cut em down to the yellow line. For your next bow, I will send you a pair of buffalo horn tip overlays free of charge. Just like these below. And I'll send you an adjustable tillering string, and a piece of curly maple riser material. Just a show of thanks for your service to our country Mr. Navy Man.. Pm me your address
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6986.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6987.jpg)
Mac, I first make my horn tip over lay from a 2.5 inch long by 1/2 wide by 5/8 thick piece of buffalo horn material. I get that material from Jantz knife supplies. They sell it in blocks about 2.5 wide by 5 inches long by 5/8th thick. They sell it for knife handles. I get two of those blocks for about $20.00 delivered to the house. I'll get enough material for about 10 bows at least. I cut 1/2 inch pieces off, then lay it with the 5/8th side up and draw a line from corner to corner and cut it out on the band saw. Then I sand that smooth on a belt sander, I end up with a tip overlay about 2 3/8th to 2 1/4 long that is perfectly flat on the angled side. Then I lay one on the side of the bow tip and leave about 1/8th of wood on the belly side and trace a line up along the side of the limb tip. I cut it off or grind it off leaving the line on. Then I clamp the bow in a vice and lay the overlay on it and use a rasp and sanding block to get a smooth gap free fit. I don't quite flatten it to the end of the overlay, I'll leave maybe 1/32nd of an inch of wood on the bow limb and after glue up I just sand the edges to a smooth edge. Ya gotta leave the overlay a tad higher and sand it down to meet the back of the bow. I sand the thin edge of the overlay to a knife edge before glue up.
Roy thats awfully nice of ya. you better pm me your address too. just in case... :thumbsup:
I make this first and notice the knife edge on the thin end.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6986.jpg)
Then I lay that on the side of the limb tip and trace it out and cut or grind off almost to the line. Like this.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6985.jpg)
Then I make it match real nice and glue it up with smooth on and wrap with gum bands.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6987.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6989.jpg)
Oh and the Coors Light helps... :laughing:
Thanks Roy
i guess if you like watery beer. :laughing:
Well ya just made the thumpin list ole thick tip Bowyer. LOL
:goldtooth:
ok hows this?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_05-51-02_362_zps9072af58.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_05-51-21_299_zps1c632c04.jpg)
Much better:) Do you like it?
and i will trim the bottom up something like this after tillering... and clean up and maybe deepen the grooves. i need a new chainsaw file, mine is real dull.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/542bf76c-6d6c-44d8-9464-ecf3de515ba5_zps39d81060.jpg)
yeah I actually like it better without the maple.
I would need at least a six pack to get my glue lines looking like Roy's. How he gets it with only one is a mystery to me! Difference is mine would look lousy in the morning...
Tips are the hardest part of the whole bow to me. Good tips are the mark of a master for sure. I have a hard time blending them into the back without dishing out the back.
Good deal and they do look nice.
LOL Steve..
Good Job! Definately look better thinned out. Once you round everything out it will look mint!
I guess they are OK... :thumbsup:
oooohhhh...kaaaay..... started tillering. here we are at 1" brace. looked perfect at the time, although now in the picture i can see it.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_14-47-36_354_zpsbf7c4f7c.jpg)
here we are at 1" brace pulled 3 or 4 inches
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_14-48-24_250_zps545f24c6.jpg)
see the design flaw in my tillering tree? oh well.
here is 1" brace, pulled about 9" and it hit 40#
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_14-49-22_271_zpsa2069280.jpg)
here is 1" brace view of the belly. except for my timber hitch knot slightly off center on the tip, the string runs down the center.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_14-50-39_606_zps3383d37f.jpg)
and finally, here it is at 6" brace. I didn't pull any from there, and only left it braced long enough to get a picture, because here is where i decided i needed some expert advice before proceeding.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_15-02-18_686_zps2d19c734.jpg)
and... immediately after unstringing
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_15-04-09_329_zps5aeead6d.jpg)
Right limb looks good to me. Left limb is stiff.
How thick is your handle? Looks way too thick to me.
thick like back to belly... or left to right? it IS much to thick back to belly. im going to cut the throat of the grip in to 13/4" from the back. and reduce the rest of it down accordingly. left to right its only 1 1/4"
btw i accounted for that somewhat in my brace height measurement. my "1" brace" has the string actually less than 1/4" from the riser. probably not a bad time to trim it down closer to finished dimensions?
Brace that bow up to 4 inches and see what she looks like.
4" brace... i worked on the stiffer limb a bit since my last post
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_18-58-44_524_zps14e34d36.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_19-01-10_27_zps0de835a9.jpg)44# @ 18"
Roy go back a page to see it braced at 4"
to me it looks like the right limb is flatter than the left limb on the outer two thirds
Yup.
this is bugging me... why would the left limb look stiffer at brace and the right limb look stiffer at draw?
Are the limbs equal length?
Eric this is the time Eric Krewsons tillering gizmo will be useful.
If you don't have one do a,search and make one.
Roy- Yes, equal length. the only difference, and this is probably it, the boo is thick on the last third and outer part of middle third on the left limb, a little over 1/8", its a little less than 1/8" everywhere else.... the ipe is thinner there than everywhere else too.
Macbow, i am familiar, and I am going to make one... now... i have no lovely assistant, any good tips on how to hold the bow in a drawn position while i apply the gizmo? I know i could put pegs on my tillering tree, but is there another way?
Roy does this handle make you happier?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-15_20-22-43_552_zps526b74f8.jpg)
Ya I guess it looks better, but still too thick I thinks:) Now take the tillering rope and wrap it around your right ankle, stretch your right leg waaaay back and run the gizmo up and down the limbs:)
OR, you could put a good strong clamp across the tree and hook the bow string on that. But ya better make sure the clamp doesn't slip or BOOM goes the bow.... Or you could build a long tillering stick with notches every inch and wedge it between the floor and the bottom of the trees cradle. Or you could drill holes every inch in the tree and stick a 4 inch x 1/4 inch bolt in it like I do.
sounds like i need some beers for that exercise! the belly of the handle is now 2" from the back of the boo. I like a little shape to my grip, so the deepest part of the grip will probably end up 1/4" to a 1/2" deeper than that.
Think im going to give it a rest for tonight, getting tired and thats when mistakes happen. especially when in critical stages like this! 10" of draw to go.
i like the hole and bolt idea. im gonna do that. thanks Roy! i knew I'd get a good idea from you if i listened long enough :laughing:
You mean to tell me you don't have a few beers while tillering your bow? Gezze oh man dude, that's what's wrong with the bow then, your not drinking:) LOL
Here is my tree setup with the holes drilled. The bow string is hooked on the bolt here. Heck even an Army Girl could do it:) LOL
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7403.jpg)
could be... I'll give that a try first thing in the morning! :thumbsup:
you must have been a marine... I think you have some deep resentment of us sailors! :nono: :rolleyes:
Hey, God made some people tough... and he made some smart.... then he made Submariners.... and he saw that they were good. :biglaugh:
Nope I wasn't in the service, but worked for the Air Force way back then. I'm just messen with ya Eric.
I know ya are. alright Im off to bed will get back on it tomorrow. Goodnight Roy, Goodnight gang.
Maybe Roy can pipe in as usual but with your riser is it going to be a problem because you haven't shaped the fades at all and worked those yet? I mean because it is just glued on there and you haven't feathered them into the ipe wood. Maybe I am not one to give advice but I have watched other threads and seen the riser pop loose there because they were too pronounced.
OH ROOOOYYY!!! Where you at on this one? Am I way off by saying this?
Right on Justin, that slipped my mind, but the bow shouldn't be bending at the fades anyway. And he gotta keep the handle flat for the tillering tree cradle.
how would you guys go about blending the fades into the limbs? a rasp?
Yes but don't cut into the limbs, take the riser down to the limbs. Rasp, scraper, sand paper. And leave the belly side of the handle flat for now.
sounds like a plan.
hows this?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_10-02-27_455_zps86610306.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_10-05-19_62_zpse712af8c.jpg)
actually, looking at it now i think i will take a little more off, the transition is smooth, but not as smooth as i'd like, think i need to deepen the curve of the fades a bit so there are no angles... only curves.
this will do for now
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_10-37-23_143_zpsd9f62594.jpg)
Ya for now.
Eric - I think it's lookin' good no matter what Roy says.
Looking very good.
I,use the same method on the tillering tree except mine uses a 3/4 inch dowel.
I haven't heard you say how much your exercising between scraping sessions. But exercise it a lot. The more you teach the wood to bend between sessions the less likely a surprise will show up.
macbow im bending the limbs 30 to 40 times before looking for where to take more wood off
Ah John, what's a glass bow boy know? LOL
ok using my new gizmo, got it to 45# @ 20"
here it is braced to 6". yes the left limb is a bit stiff, and its the next one getting scraped, because it didn't get marked by the gizmo this run. doing about 10 scrapes at a time.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_14-10-16_69_zpsed041e20.jpg)
and pulled to 20"
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_14-10-37_659_zpsf556a14e.jpg)
im going to shoot for 50#, so that after shooting in and finishing, if it drops a pound or two i will still be happy. what i really want is 47 or 48. so far the most i have pulled it to is 45. when should i start pulling to 50# for tillering?
That's looking real nice, Eric. You want the left limb a tad stiffer if it's the bottom limb. Tiller the bow for about a 1/8th to 1/4 positive tiller on top limb. You shoot split finger or three under? Nice tree design too with the holes and bolt:)
Thanks Roy! I haven't picked a top limb yet, but it may very well be the left, because its got the thicker bamboo, and the ipe is approaching the same thickness as the boo. now that positive tiller is measured from the string to limbs right past the fades while braced... correct?
Correct
7" brace, 50# @ 23". damn near perfect tiller says the gizmo, takes very fine adjustments or i get no mark or a line down the whole limb. 5" to go!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_19-31-27_125_zps943299c4.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-16_19-31-50_443_zpsf7616dc6.jpg)
Not too shabby for ah Navy Boy:)
Well done eric.You learn fast--Joe
thanks guys. any pointers for this part of the game? i can definitely see how one could get excited and rush the last bit of tillering. I promise im not going to do that! the curve on the limbs is consistent all the way down, except 4 or 5 inches from the fades and the last 4 or 5 inches to the tips is a little stiffer. is that what i want, or should i make more bend near the fades and tips... shoot for consistent curve from fade to tip?
is it a problem that my ipe is the same thickness as the bamboo, and will likely be a whisker thinner than the bamboo by the time she is done? next time i do a bamboo backed bow i am definitely making it thinner.
might be more aptly called a IBB (ipe bellied bamboo)
I would use a scraper and remove wood equally from each limb to attain your 50 pounds at your draw length. But I would leave the bow at 54 pounds because it will lose a few pounds in the final sanding and a pound or two shooting it a few hundred times.
Roy, Im actually hoping to end up at 47#, thought I said that, but maybe I didnt
Ah make up your darn mind, son:) Ok then make her 50 if it makes ya happy:)
My mind has been made up ya old fart! i said i was shooting for 50 cause i know its going to drop a few lbs and end up at 47 where i really want it! :knothead: :laughing:
Figures a sailor kin only pull 47 pounds... :bigsmyl:
haha well im pulling 53# right now, but i can shoot a little lighter much better.
47 is a girls bow weight:)
haha its a deer slaying bow weight is what it is!
but ya know, I have been thinkin... 50 is good too. and it requires less scraping to get there (ya im that lazy) so i tell you what, if i get to 53# and im happy with the tiller, I will leave her right there.
takin a couple days off from the build to catch up on my honey do list, in case anyone was wondering. don't worry, I'll get back on it as soon as the yard and garage are ready for spring!
53# @ 28"
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-19_17-34-42_879_zpsac689c56.jpg)
3/16 positive tiller, with the left limb being stiffer. don't bother counting holes in the peg board, the rest at the top of the tiller tree isn't exactly level.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-19_17-35-04_396_zpsa99cf8c7.jpg)
so.... what do i do now?! :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by Echatham:
so.... what do i do now?! :dunno:
Go shoot it silly!!!!!
thats a novel idea! should i put in the shelf first? shape the handle?
I personally only like shelves on my glass bows, but yeah shape your handle a little at a time until it feels right.
You cut in a shelf on that bow and I'm driving up there tonight and whoopen your Navy Boy A$$. Plus your handle is not wide enough to support cutting in a shelf. Get off that high tech shelf stuff. You just made a very nice stick bow, your tiller is awesome. Glue a leather rest on the side like I showed you way above. Now you can round off the belly edges of your handle, and I still say it's too thick back to belly.
Make your handle look slim and sexy.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/4c987846-9031-4718-944e-8da4ebb7bb41.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7426.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7389.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7016.jpg)
pretty sure i want a shelf.... not going to make it too deep though.... maybe a quarter inch or 3/16 from center... what do you guys think?
haha roy didnt see your post before i posted.... this might be up for debate... you havent steered me wrong yet!
pretty sure i want a shelf.... not going to make it too deep though.... maybe a quarter inch or 3/16 from center... what do you guys think?
I THINK YOUR NUTS.
I THINK YOUR NUTS..
I THINK YOUR NUTS...
I THINK YOUR NUTS....
ok.... well.... i know what roy thinks haha
alright roy.... how do i make one o them low tech handles?! how wide?
3/4 inches will suffice, 7/8th would be nice. Make it like the one I just showed ya. This is 3/4 inches wide.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/4c987846-9031-4718-944e-8da4ebb7bb41.jpg)
im gonna say ok.... but can ya tell me why?
Yes, because stick bows like you just made are supposed to be more on the primitive side, not center sissy pants shot:) Cutting a shelf in it would defeat the purpose of why you built it in my opinion. Listen to what I'm gonna tell ya Eric.
I know you want center shot because you think it will be more accurate. That is not entirely true. With a bow that is not center shot, you have to select arrows that are spined correctly. They will bend around the handle when you release the string and recover and head straight to the bulls eye.. Remember the archers paradox I told you about a long way back in this thread?
But it's your bow dude and you can make it however you want it to be. Ya don't have to listen to everything I say. And this won't be your last bow, I promise you that. But imagine in your mind how it will look with a shelf cut in it, or how it would look like the pictures I am showing you. Then you decide how you want your bow to look. Maybe I'm just pressing my ideals too strongly on you and I apologize for that.
So if you want your stick bow to look like a sissy pants bow, then cut the shelf in it.
LMAO
3/4 inches wide handle is 6/8th. Half that is 3/8th or 6/16th to center. You wanted to cut it to 3/16th from center. So what the hell is another 3/16th gonna hurt?
LOL, now what's ya think, Son?
you make a good point. I just never shot a bow without a shelf, so i never considered not having one.... but hey, before november, i had never shot a bow without cams.... so why not give it a try right? and as long as im going that far, i suppose i might as well leave it a flat handle like on yours... i was going to make it more pistol grip, like on my fedora longbow, but I'm all about new things... so... I'm gonna go for it. now... im gonna need some leather.... any recommendations? i could always scour the goodwill store for old purses.... oh, and hey that little wedge you have under your handle wrap for an arrow rest.. is that glued to the bow?
You could still do the pistol grip and I understand that as I shoot better with a pistol grip myself, that won't affect the center shot. But it should be more of a shallow pistol grip, but with the thickness of your handle back to belly, you can do more of a pistol grip.
Yes a leather grip will be sweet, why not just cut up one of your old pursers, LOL. The rest I have is thick leather, like a leather belt, glued together to the thickness I wanted, sanded round and then glued to the bow then the leather grip wrapped around it.
oh ok... what kind of glue?
this is pretty much the shape of grip i want to go with :
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/Dadriserside_zps413b9fc2.jpg)
That grip will work great. I use a tite bond trim and molding glue. Have used elmers wood glue too. Won't take much of a glue to hold it and your gonna stitch it anyways. Use a glue that gives you about 30 minutes to work the grip before it sets up.
Ya I know, how do I stitch it? LOL
Get a long sewing needle, a big one that will accept heavy thread or sinew. Get a leather hole punch and punch holes equally spaced on both edges. Have the grip cut to fit around the handle when stretched lightly, apply the glue and pull the grip around the handle till the ends meet flush. Then stitch it up while keeping the stitching centered on the center of the handle on the back of the bow like in the picture. You have to work it to keep it centered, that's why you want a glue that takes a while to fully setup.
When I get around to sending you your care package, I'll include some tanned deer hide. That stuff stretches real nice around a handle.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7313.jpg)
Roy.... you're a sweetheart! ;)
You been drinken haven't ya? :laughing:
Eric you just made your first bow and it really looks very nicely tillered. I'm proud of you for how well it came out. You came to the right site for help and you got help, you also went along well with the kidding and joking around. That's what all the guys here do, help new guys make their first bow. There is no doubt in my mind that somewhere on down the road in years to come, you will be helping some rookie make his first bow, and you will know how I feel right now.
thank you. that means alot. and i really appreciate the help. i have no doubt it would have been a far lesser bow without all you guys help.
I'm probably a little late, but I second Roy's "no arrow shelf" rule. I made one on my first stick bow and I hate it. Also made too deep of a pistol grip on it, and I hate it too. I actually don't even shoot that bow anymore and have contemplated cutting the thing in pieces for firewood on more than one occasion.
My favorite grip on a stick bow has become, well, no grip. Just trim it down like Roy says. I don't even use a leather rest anymore. Just shoot off the hand. Much easier, IMO. But those built-up rests are great too. Very easy to make and use.
BTW, very good job for your first bow. Heck, good job even if it was your 50th bow. That tiller looks about perfect.
+3 for no shelf. It will shoot amazing with a rest like Roy talked about. Shelves are for glass...
didn't have a whole lot of time today, but i did manage to clean up my tips a bit, sand down the edges of the limb bellies, and twist up my first ever flemish string.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-20_21-35-19_700_zps222af268.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-20_21-35-49_666_zps2ad97a89.jpg)
is this twisted to tight? string came out long. I will probably just make another one shorter. this is a 6" brace after hand stretching... B50 by the way.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-20_21-38-29_445_zpsbd6aef21.jpg)
no work on the handle yet. tomorrow. and as soon as i get the handle narrowed, shooting will commence. gonna just use some 2016s for now. any recommendations on spines i should include in my cedar shaft test kit? i draw a solid 28", maybe a whisker more.
Yes it does look a little off, unless it's the angle of the camera. A bow limb will twist towards the weak side. So if it's not the camera angle then I would look at the left side where your thumb is. I can see it's a tad wider especially close to the riser. Also a biggie is be SURE the thickness of the limbs is the same on each long side edge of the limbs. If one edge were thicker than the opposite edge then it would twist the limb like in your picture. To get the string to line up better, you would need to reduce the thickness on the left side where your thumb is, and take off some of the edge where it sticks out a little.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/2013-03-20_21-35-49_666_zps2ad97a89.jpg)
Another trick is to deepen your string groove to move the string over, below is a neat pix to show you how to do it and the limbs.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/limbalignment.jpg)
Real nice job on your first string too. No it's not twisted too much.
oh i wasnt asking about that... its a combination of camera angle and the loop being off centered a bit... i took a better picture but i guess i uploaded the wrong one. i was asking about the string.
The string sucks... :jumper:
yah but does it have too many twists?
If ya only could read and comprehend son:) I posted just above that it's not twisted too much:)
ooops! guess i missed that part! haha sorry! ok good. i had heard somewhere that you dont want more than a twist per inch or something or other
Sorry Roy but I say go center sissy pants shot! Really either way Is fine . Whatever you like echatham
Well ya heard wrong:)
What would you quantify as to many twists? because its probably going to need quite a few more after stretching... and 6" is a bit lower than i think i want, but i guess i will just have to see what the bow wants. still hoping to get some input on what arrow spines for a starting point with this bow. all my arrows are spined real heavy, for centershot bows.
hey and do you guys think i should stain or dye the boo? if so what would you use? Im placing another order for supplies tomorrow, and im not sure what to fill my cart with. I need some better serving material, so thats on there, and a bottle of tru oil. think i will get a bareshaft test kit, not sure what spines though, maybe the 2016s will tell me something today.
3 complete twists per inch is my limit, I'm fine with two per inch. I would stain the boo, but it's your bow so only the shadow knows for sure:) Your bow is most likely going to like 40 to 45 pound spine arrows. Leave them a couple inches long and paper tune them for good flight.
Ya I know, what's paper tunning? LOL
I use Fiebings leather dye for staining the bamboo.
But any alcohol based dye works great.
On the string I think 3 to 4 twists per inch is not bad any tighter is supposed to start making a,difference.
I go both with and without cutting in a arrow shelve.
I enjoy shooting,of the fist as,they say. But usually glue own some sort of shelf for consistant shooting.
holy smokes she shoots! put about 60 arrows through it with a makeshift leather rest held on with electric tape. (scared to shoot off the knuckle since i went to the ER to cut a feather out of my knuckle once) shoots fast! and hits where im looking. 30.5" 2016s with 150 gr tips fly pretty good. my wrist has been slapped enough for today so im making a shorter string, i couldn't get the one i had better than a 6" brace without it getting all kinked up.... about 3 twists per inch. i narrowed the handle down to 3/4" like roy said... and im good with it. handle needs some shape and it will be for comfortable to shoot. biggest thing for me right now is getting to a 7"+ brace.... i got big old blocky wrists, and lower than that i get a big old purple knot. arm guards are wimps like Roy. :biglaugh: :laughing: I know I know... pictures.... gimme a while.... got a string to make and kids to pick up from school.
I would brace that bow at 6.5 to 7 at the most. It's a longbow not a recurve. So ya like how it shoots without a shelf cut in, Imagine That? LOL
got it braced at 6 3/4 with a new string.... much better! no slap.
Cool and only took 22 pages in here for you to make a bow. You Sailor boys are slow learners:) LOL & Congrats, Eric. Now we want a full draw picture please and if it's anything like on the tree it otta be a great tiller profile.
wow very nice looking bow looking at starting my own first bow in the near future if it comes out half as nice as this i will be happy. Can i ask what is the length of your bow?
and thanks for everyone putting lots of pics and info on here as it has helped me get abetter grasp on things
Condrats eric.fine job.Whats next?
slow down fellas! it ain't finished yet! got a shape the handle... verify tiller, sand her down, finish it, make a handle wrap.... ya know... these things take time! I don't know whats next... was thinking maybe a red oak or hickory board bow with snake skins.... would love to try my hand at an osage stave eventually... open to suggestions! name my next project!
here's a sneak peek:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/0d2a379a-4702-42e8-ad30-9e29c2071fc1_zpsc9a74cb7.jpg)
I'm blaming the size of the group on my lack of a proper handle! but not too shabby for only having shot a couple dozen arrows out of it.
Not too shabby. Bow looks great. You form that little pistol grip in there and you will be set. But I still say the handle is way too thick belly to back. But it's your bow:)
it is roy, and its still coming down alot.... you'll see. its gonna be at least half an inch thinner.
something like this as a starting point
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-21_19-41-20_989_zpsdc4e9354.jpg)
right now its 2" back to belly, and im going to shape down to 1 1/2" in the throat of the grip to start with. btw that node is exactly centered. how does my shelf... errr.... rest location look?
i think its kinda neat how that grain line kinda mirrors my handle shape
I guess it's Ok:)
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
I guess it's Ok:)
don't get too excited! :rolleyes:
That is him getting excited. I think his pace maker is calibrated to prevent him getting any more wound up. Its an age thing.
hows this Roy?
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-21_21-23-36_592_zpsb5c7d246.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-21_21-23-51_982_zps660691c3.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-21_21-24-03_728_zpsc12f5d83.jpg)
That looks great! Nice job.
Thanks BMN. Can't wait to see how she feels shooting with the more comfortable grip.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/07e8b310-08cf-4a5e-be9a-496d9fc0baf1_zpsa8cd8453.jpg)
Very nice....congrats on a fine bow....
><>>
glenn
Wow, turned out really good.
The handle looks great and the full draw tiller is awesome. How's she shoot now?
But your drawing arm elbow is too high:)
just a little more handshock since i thinned down the handle. i can still take some meat off the tips... think it will help? it will probably be better with some padding in the handle...she shoots pretty good though. im happy. yeah i know about the elbow.. need to work on my form a bit. its hard having no hands-on help... I can't see what im doing... and everyone that can doesn't know much about it.
Don't pay too much attention to Roy. His eyes stay crossed half the time anyway. Nice looking bow, congrats.
Thinning the tips won't hurt.
great looking bow grats.
thanks everyone, stay tuned, there is still a little work to be done, final sanding, sealing finishing, leather grip. hoping to be all done by middle of the week... except maybe the leather grip... got to get to the goodwill... i don't have anything thin enough.
LMFAO
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/07e8b310-08cf-4a5e-be9a-496d9fc0baf1_zpsa8cd8453-1.jpg)
Roy your grand-kids are playing on the computer again!
Is that the Easter Bunny?? I know its getting close to him coming around.
The bow looks great. Well done.
here's a couple more pics, I don't think i showed my little leather arrow rest.... laminated 3 squares of belt leather together and sanded to shape. using electric tape as the grip right now until i get it sealed and finished.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-22_18-24-55_330_zpsfb4eeb49.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-22_18-25-05_142_zps6712b8c5.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-22_18-25-32_961_zps461cc90d.jpg)
That rest is perfect dude and I like the grip:)If ya would have used friction tape it really would have snugged into your hand:)That riser curly maple?
yup
looks good. great job.
trimmed down the tips and put some string leaches (I know i know... beaver fur is on order :) ) and it seemed to knock down the hand shock quite a bit... definitely quieter. most of the noise i think is just my arrows being to stiff and hitting the riser. I ordered the 35-55# test kit from 3 rivers... im betting 45-50 are the ticket. did some sanding on the limbs, down to 220 grit (finest i got) im only down to 51 1/2# @ 28", and prior to the sanding i was still at 53#. no loss in draw weight from shooting in. i think maybe tomorrow i will run down to the big box store and grab some finer sandpaper and a can of shellac.
hey for you all that know... will the leather grip absorb some of the shock? its not a big issue for me, just after shooting 100 arrows hand gets a little sore. not used to that... but i think i understand that it just comes with the territory... the selfbow/all-wood longbow territory that is.
yes leather will help you with the shock a little. Echatham if you send me your address I will send ya a piece of deer hide dyed either dark brown or black. If you take a look at my BBO fix you can see the color of the dye I use. That's if ya want some. Great job tho!
Thanks Justin thats very kind. Someone has already offered to send me some though, and i don't know if it would feel right to accept it from you when i already have some coming... I DO like your handle in the BBO fix. very nice looking bow. I will PM you my address anyway, and if you want to send me a piece even though im already getting one, i suppose i can live with that. :) after all... theres gonna be another bow in the works soon!
Turned out very good. A while back Roy posted a video of himself shooting and his elbow was much higher than yours. Bue--. :bigsmyl:
tried out some stains i had on a scrap piece of bamboo... going with the one i circled... its tandy leather dye... same thing i use on my arrows... but it comes out a little lighter on the boo.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-23_15-47-58_800_zpsa47d065c.jpg)
looking good
oh boy.... leather dye not compatible with shellac... maybe not too bad... caused it to run... but it didn't run onto the maple or ipe. actually looks kinda cool... mottled looking... but it will probably stay tacky. i will give it a while to dry and try to sand the boo with 220 or 400 grit see if i can get it off... or blend it in or something. only reason im using shellac is to seal the ipe... i hear its so oily finishes won't dry on it.
see... kinda cool:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-23_21-55-03_663_zps0302bef9.jpg)
definitely uncool:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-23_21-55-16_901_zpsadec6c28.jpg)
phew! i saved it. very cool:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-23_22-19-04_182_zps013e1785.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/2013-03-23_22-27-26_944_zps0a9f2331.jpg)
indoor lighting sucks... the pics don't do it justice.
rubbed the back down with denatured alcohol... blended it all in nicely. took up the shellac but thats just fine with me... only needed it on the ipe. its still a wee bit tacky... tomorrow when its totally dry i will give it a quick rub with 400 grit just to make it silky smooth again... then im waiting on the tru-oil. should be here by tuesday.
super nice bow!!!
i have used both min wax wipe on poly, and a water based spar grade verathane on ipe many times with no problems!
I spray my ipe with minwax lacquer. I've never had a problem with it not drying on ipe. The only thing I've ever had a problem with is the helsmeth spar urathane. That dye looks good. What did you do on the sides??? I take a scraper and run down the sides so it gives a straight line.
Great job on the bow, beautiful. I've watched and enjoyed the build thread since the beginning. It's the first thread finally initiated a post out of me. Not usually a lurker but I have been up to now.
Actually ALL the bows I have seen built here are beautiful. All the input helped me alot too, even Roys but don't tell him it will just make his head swell. :p
Ah Geeze Shawnee, yer first post and yer already messen wif me... :laughing:
Heck Roy, it just feels natural :D
LOL, glad you decided to post.
hey thanks ShawneeB, and everyone, I really appreciate all the help and compliments. I am going to need all your help again soon! i have pretty much decided the next project is going to be an Osage selfbow, and although i have read and read and read alot about it, i have never laid hands on a piece of osage.... should be interesting.
Once you build an Osage Bow, you won't use any other kind of wood:)
so your saying i should try everything else first?
:dunno:
No, forget everything else and use Osage:)
well we will see how it goes, it doesn't grow around here and they don't exactly give it away... i've been looking around for a good hop hornbeam tree to cut... but that will take time to dry.
Pine Hollow sells a BBO kit for $75.00.
http://www.pinehollowlongbows.com/Bow_Kits.html
There are lots of good wood for bows, cut what you can around home..
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
LOL, glad you decided to post.
Thanks Roy. Maybe I'll even have something to contribute if I try hard :eek:
You're welcome Echat, you deserve it. Very nice job. I'm newagain at bow making too. I tried my first back around 83. Yew billet bow. Kaboom!!! Nice toothpicks though, lots of em. So I shot factory and customs or bows made for me. I just decided to try making them again (also start shooting bows again after a few years off) now that we have the net and GREAT help. Made my first successful board bow and I'm working on my version of a take down Molle like Fiddlers "Alaskan takedown".
The net did more than just great info and help. It really renewed me in trad. I have shot trad since a kid but so many friends went to wheels, I wouldn't.
I'm 1.5 hrs from the KY tradfest Apr 5-7th so will drop in on one day, hope to meet a few from here too.
Nice bow!!!
I should be at the Ky Tradfest too.
Man... those dates for the Ky tradfest are almost right.... im headed to AL from CT on the weekend of the 12th... would have been cool to make it a halfway rest point.
D. I'm in Edmonton. About a straight shot north for me on 68 to get to the fest. I can't do all 3 days, sure would like to though.
Echat. Heck man, leave a week early and stretch it!
wish i could, already requested the leave, and to late to change it now.
You'll have a great trip regardless and the fest looks like an annual and growing event. Eastern Redbud should be blooming nicely then. I like that stuff. CT huh. I was born on the base, raised in Waterford. Moved around a bit after HS, loving KY.
I guess KY is Ok:)
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
I guess KY is Ok:)
Ya sur ya betcha! :D
Thanks for posting your build along, Echatham. Your bow looks terrific! I will be coming back to this thread a lot when I start on my next bow. Guess I should give Roy some props for the little help he gave too :D
thanks takefive, should have it finished in a couple days and i can finish this thread off properly. my leather handle wrap is ready to go, and my little bottle of true oil is on the ups truck right now along with my cedar arrow test kit.
should have pictures of the 100% completed bow tomorrow, in the meantime, can anyone recommend an adhesive for gluing leather to tru-oil finished wood?
Lots of them will work, I use Titebond Molding & Trim glue.
Barge cement works good. Other brands of contact cement probably work good too but I only have experience with Barge.
think duco will work?
No
well, i guess im going to the hardware store. couple dollars here, couple dollars there... I probably coulda had a brand new black widow for what i have put into this thing lol. thats ok, alot of it was tools and material i will have for the next build...
I have used contact cement with no issue... But I only glue around the arrow rest. The leather finish I use seems to dry the leather into place as well.
http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=a1e18a48-c721-4b0b-8f63-259c477919e0
yeah i guess that stuff is probably OK. :laughing:
What is nice is you have time to work the leather while stitching it up.
Oh i already figured out what to do with the grip, what i did was dampen the leather and stretch it by hand and marked it with a 1/8" gap in the back, then i took it off the bow and stitched the edges all the way together with leather lace, then i dampened it again and slid it up the lower limb onto the grip, its so snug it will just barely get all the way up, then i glued the rest inside the grip. and checked for fit again. it fits real good, and so tight that i almost gave myself a hernia getting it off. if i find that it loosens up over time i will do it your way. i just want to glue on a thin side plate.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130328_162306_429_zps566ba6bb.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130328_162315_645_zpsaf5629a0.jpg)
Nice, the glue I mentioned works well for a side plate too.
im gonna pick some up tonight or in the morning.
she's done and she likes 45-50 spine arrows cut at 29" BOP.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130329_112351_608_zpsac7419da.jpg)
The blue ones were way weak, 35-40, shot pretty bad, the white flew the straigtest at 45-50, but the yellos (50-55) were pretty good too.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130329_111739_389_zps361ee834.jpg)
That's beautiful. Great job! I like that handle and grip. BTW, looks like CT in the background for sure. Born on the base, raised in Waterford across the river. Long time ago.
Very nice job the whole way around. ^5
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130329_115621_674_zps68e69187.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130329_115643_896_zps6cedf82b.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130329_115608_632_zpseb20e7d8.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130329_115533_674_zps868ea6d8.jpg)
Thank you all so much for the help, I couldn't have done it without you.
Nicely done!!
It's Ok I guess... :laughing:
yeah i guess it's alright for my first try. Maybe if i switch to a weaker beer like Roy the next one will come out better. :biglaugh:
:jumper:
That came out really nice! I like it alot!
Man you did great. Almost made it look too easy. :clapper: :clapper:
Very nice!!
Great Job, looks like a good shooter too.
Terrific job on your bow. Congrats!
This is the longest Rookie Bow Build I ever seen in my life.. 28 pages LOL :campfire:
Congrats she came out very nice- no matter 1. or 10.!!
Here's the unbraced side view as requested Vanillabear. Sorry so blurry. but you can see it good enough, the lower limb lost a tad more than the upper, and its the slightly stiffer one. i attribute it to the bamboo being slightly thicker there. I definitely learned alot from this, and alot from you guys. Thanks for following!
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s608/echatham/IMG_20130330_085341_582_zpsf07309a6.jpg)
:thumbsup: :notworthy: Well done!
Vanillabear im sure it will shoot better than i can. im having to cant the bow a bit, and i have never done that before, because my arrow wants to fall off the rest. im thinkin i either need to put a bit of fur or rug on there to keep it from sliding off, or put pressure on the nock with my fingers to kind of pull it into the riser. once i get the hang of it though its gonna be a shooter. very quiet, every bit as quiet id say as my fedora, not quite as fast, but not far behind either. definitely taking her hunting this year.
Roy, he did this slow just for you, so you could keep up and not miss anything....geeesssshhhhh.
fabulous bow you have there and well done for giving us a brilliant bow build i will definitly be coming back here for inspiration and advice
wow that is an amazing bow very impressive you did make it look easy though :)