Hey folks. I am super new to bow making so go easy on me her. I am a bit into my first one. I am doing a 1x2 68" Red Oak Board Bow to start (move to Hickory next). So far I have taken the limbs down to roughly 1/2" at the end of the fade to roughly 3/8' at the nocks. I a pulling roughly 15"-16" at about 15=20lbs or so. It seems like removing wood is not making it bend much more as I am already measuring what many other builders final thickness measurements are and I still have only 15" of draw?? The draw weight accuracy is questionable at this point though. My questions are as follows.
1. Is my limb thickness close to where it should be for a d shaped bow? It seems as though I need to take it rather thin to continue to get it to bend more..yet it seems close to other builders final measurements..kind of lost here.
2. Am I correct in tapering the thickness out to the nocks or should I have kept the limbs an even thickness from handle to nock?
Thanks in advance for any help.
CamoZ-It depends on the shape of the bow.You can take width off as well as thickness.It doesn't remove weight as fast as thickness.Pull it to your intended finish weight 20-30 times to get it use to bending then keep scraping 10 scrapes each limb and pull it 20-30 times after each scraping.Use a gizmo to check your tiller.You will get there--Joe
Hey Joe...thanks for the reply. I am just checking to see if I am doing something wrong here..It seems like it is getting fairly thin yet not bending all that much. Unless I am too nervous to really pull it (though I dont think so, just taking it to the point that it seems like it will handle it okay).
If the tiller looks ok.pull it.If it is going to blow best it does it sooner.Just don't go past final weight--Joe
If you don't have one, get a scale so you know what weight you're pulling. You can use a bathroom scale if you don't have anything else. Then you'll know a little better how much you can pull and still hit your intended weight and draw.
Forget about the thickness measurement. Remove wood until the limbs bend evenly and together.
20#@16" works out to 45#@28"...now! Are you still on the long string? If so at 16" you should be able to brace the bow at a low brace height of 3" to 4". At brace you will be able to see your stave as a bow and what it needs to thrive.
Thanx for the replies. I am still on the long string, yes (using paracord as I do not yet have any bow string at all).
I have done a bit more work and I am pulling 17-18 inches. I have been using the bathroom scale and currently show around 23lbs at 17 1/2" of draw. As I keep thinking the bow should be relatively easy to pull (fearing it may break if I try to pull down to say 30 or 40lbs at this point..I do have a heavier gauge linen backing on it so that gives me a bit of added confidence..
You don't want it to be "easy" to draw, that means a light weight! It will naturally resist more as it bends more. Again the primary emphasis is on making sure the limbs are bending EVENLY and not pulling past the weight you want to finish at. The 45# Pat stated is a respectable goal, though with tweaking and finishing you'll likely fall under.
DON'T BEND'R ANYMORE TILL YOU GET HER ON A SHORT STRING. Sorry for yelling :D , but i wanted to make sure you saw that. You can still use the paracord, just shorten it up till it give you a 3" or so brace height (3" from inside of grip to string). You may have hinges hiding behind that long string, either way it doesn't give a true read.
Once you get the short string on, stand in front of a mirror and draw it back to your 17" or so and watch how she bends. Easier to see as the limbs are in motion. Then stick her on the tree to check overall tiller. If there are no hinges or stiff spots, both limbs bend evenly together, then you can inch it back bit by bit, constantly checking the tiller each time. Exercise it about 20-30 pulls at each length before progressing as well.
Good luck and keep checking in :thumbsup:
How long is your tillering string? Don't use those super long strings, they don't give you a true indication of the tiller. When I first put a string on a new bow and string it in the string grooves, my string lays tight against the belly of the handle. Once the limb tips are bending to about 6 inches and I have a nice even arc to the limbs, I brace the bow to about a 3 inch brace height and continue tillering. Once the limb tips are bending to 8 or 9 inches and I still have a nice limb arc, I brace the bow up at 6 inches. The shorter string you put on a bow the more stress it puts on the outer 1/3 of the limbs. Do you have a tillering gizmo? if not here is a link to making and using one.
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000075
Hey guys..great thanks..I have been using the long string, yes..I have it so that it rests against the handle..so not really loose..I will be sure to set it in a low brace and carry on with the tillering using the low brace..glad you told me..i would have kept using the long string not knowing..awesome..I will work on getting some pictures (I have another thread with tillering questions but some photos will probably help a lot..I just have to figure out how to post pics on here now!!
I was going to make a gizmo thingy just now..my drill bits (the size i need) is so badly chewed up at the non business end that it spins with a bit of a wobble..time to get some new bits eh?? Ha..
Set up a photobucket account. In the settings you can have it resize them to 640x480 for TG. Click on the img code under the links and paste in your msg. You can preview to see if it shows correctly.
Here is a link for pictures recommended by trad gang.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=129&t=000228
Hey Kevin..so I was just trying to get a shorter string on for a low brace (3" or so as per your post)..I am having a heck of a time trying to string it at 3" brace..wow..I am using the step through method but as the bow is 68" I can not seem to get the bend even throughout and i just can not seem to get the string up to the nock for a3" brace..
What i will do is post a picture(got the photobucket account ready to go) and let you see where I am at with the long string..maybe you will think it is not ready for a low brace just yet?? I dont know..at any rate..I will post a pic or two in a bit here..
update..i did get it to a low brace height..just had the sting a bit too short..probably would have had a full brace height on at the length i had it..photobucket refuses to save my picture at 640 x 480..tried a number of times but it says a problem saving..please try again..thanks for your help so far...i will carry on..
I suggest you buying a bow stringer to string wooden bows. Get the one that has a leather cup on both ends. The push pull method is safer and better for wooden bows also but stringer is the best and safest.
Okay.so I used a diff photo bucket type site..image is here..I will have to post more showing the draw on the tillering tree but I have it at 3" brace height now in this pic..
(http://i45.tinypic.com/312zkmv.jpg)
That's not looking bad at all.
Yes sir looking pretty good. BTW, that looks like about a 1" brace ;) Brace height is measured from the grip, not the belly. So the point is you can shorten the string some more (one problem with paracord/nylon etc is it does stretch after you brace it.) That said, it def looks like you're on the right track. If you want you can check the tiller with that brace, then proceed as Roy mentioned earlier (raising brace as you get more limb movement). Looks to me though like you can go on to 4" or so on the brace height. Shorten your string by an inch or so at a time and see where it braces. Use push/pull as Roy mentioned. Your taper looks real nice and fades look about right.
Can we see a front profile? I'm assuming the width is parallel for most of the length?
I'd say to stop until you get a string for this bow. If not you are going to be disappointed. The readings you are getting from the long string are false. No need for a low brace either If you have drawn it to 18" you might as well brace it at 6".
So I am at 22" draw now..starting to feel a lot like a bow now.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/21jbolc.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/o605j7.jpg)
I have it at pretty much a full brace now..your right that was a 1" brace..I took the pic..realized it was only 1"...set it to 3" then posted the pic of 1" forgetting to take another pic of it proper..long day I guess..
I most definitely have to get a bow string for it now..yea..
(http://i48.tinypic.com/30ianag.jpg)
Here are a couple of shots of front profile as per request..it has a fair bit of width taper with some but not a lot of thickness taper...I started out way too preoccupied with keeping thin tips and thick fades that I did more initial tillering on the last 1/3 of the limbs..I had to work the fades to mid limbs a lot for awhile to get it evened out..any feedback is greatly appreciated..
(http://i46.tinypic.com/ff359x.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/6yod3o.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/icsjmv.jpg)
You are doing very well for your first bow. ^5
I switched over to Imgur, the directions on their site leave something to be desired but they handle resizing well.
Give it a shot, we need some pictures.
OFF TO GET BOW STRING...Thanks for your reassurance there Roy...good to know im not way off track..I wasn't sure for a bit there if I would have to scratch this one off or what..
I called an archery shop here in town.they say I will have to have one custom made to get the right brace height etc..I was of the thought that seeing as the bow is 68" ntn..I would just need one that is 64"..?
That 64 should work.
Hey looking good camo!! Look forward to seeing it with the string.
Looks like basically a pyramid bow, so your tiller looks really good. I wouldn't touch the outer thirds at all for the rest of your tillering, but it does look like you're almost there.
The left limb looks a tad stiffer than the right, and that's good. Make it your lower limb. You want the lower limb slightly stiffer than the upper (referred to as positive tiller) because they experience different string angles/forces during the draw. If you brace it and measure the distance from belly to string just outside the fades on both sides, the lower should be about 1/8" to 1/4" less.
When i get to 20ish inches, i like to go on and rough out the handle and start doing a little short draw shooting. This gives you a feel for the balance of the bow. Just be sure not to draw past the current tiller as you do. you can mark the arrow (or put a piece of tape around it) so you know how far to pull.
keep it comin!
Hey Kevin..thanks for the input..It is fully tillered now and I do not seem to have any postive tiller to it now..unfortunately..It is at 28" draw with about 30lb weight..a little less than shooting for but I know for the next one..The handle is next but I am a bit unsure about cutting into it...
(http://i49.tinypic.com/m7b47a.jpg)
At 28 pounds ya got nothing to worry about cutting into the handle. The handle won't be bending anyway, just rasp off all 4 edges to round it off and blend it into the fades.
i was just about to cut the sight and arrow rest..
It's your handle do it how ya want. Here is another idea.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7314.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7313.jpg)
nice..I see it can be fairly simple..I dont even need to cut out a full arrow rest with a sight really eh?
In my opinion a cut in arrow rest on a wooden bow distracts from the bow. I narrow my handles and glue on a rest made out of leather glued together.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/pearl3.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5447684AZ4
Hi Roy..okay..so I went with cutting an arrow rest just because I could find a walk through online here..I feel like I am butchering it though..what do you think?
(http://i49.tinypic.com/prwg4.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2i6z5sm.jpg)
I do not have much for power tools so it is all by hand..a lot of material to remove with a rasp..wow.
Hope to be making nice bows like yours someday..nice work..
It will work but you need to round off the edges, and round off the edges of the limbs, you don't want them square. Your handle looks blocky and square, that's why I round my handles and fade them out into the fades. But your learning:)
yes..I have to do a LOT of rounding..with just a rasp I could be here a good while..
Won't take long at all and at this point you only want a rasp, and a scraper.
Im gonna go with a thinner riser on my next one..no arrow rest cut..just wrapped..I totally agree that the arrow rest detracts from the looks of the bow..
Atta Boy:)
Roy's got ya pretty well covered i see! Congrats on getting her tillered out. A rasp will shape that handle pretty quickly (too quickly if you're not careful!!). Start with rounding off the edges as Roy said, then you can grip it and feel where wood needs to be removed, continue until it feels good.
When i got started, i looked at as many handles/grips as i could via searches, and decided what i wanted mine to look like. Smooth contours and graceful lines win the day (though sometimes I still have one come out not quite how i like it). That's the fun of experimentation though!
Looks like you're well on your way to a full fledged addict :D
I have no doubts your next one will be right at the goal weight :thumbsup:
yeah..i goes a lot faster than i realized with a good 4 way rasp..totally addicted..lol
After a long while of rasping..a raspathon to be sure, I have it mostly done..still have some material to shape but the grip is shaped for the most part..I shot it a couple of time with my sons little wee arrows..probably only 20" or so..but I am wondering how the fletchings will go through the arrow rest..it seems like they will hit the rest and side of the rest..how does this part of things work?
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2u8fk0z.jpg)
That looks much better. With bows like this, which are way out of center shot, you need to tune your arrows to the bow. Have you heard of archers paradox? Paradox is the bending of the arrow shaft when you release the string. Do a search on you tube and you will find videos explaining it. I have found with my bows I need an arrow spined about 7 pounds lighter than the bows draw weight at my draw length. How about a picture of the belly of the handle with the bow at a 6 inch brace? And a picture of the whole belly of the bow from the end of one limb while strung.
Darcey,
That is looking real good, did you do all that work with a 4-way rasp, wow. For a first bow that is looking real good. As Roy said, work on matching your arrows spine to your bow. Hardest part of that, for me, is working out that 50# arrow spine does not mean it is for a 50# bow, though it could be :) . There are way to many variables for it to be that simple. Once you add arrows to the whole addiction you are done, good luck.
Yeah..about 4 hours of sitting on the floor with a 4way rasp..I was a bit sore when I got back up..I do regret cutting the arrow rest..it seems like it now has a major weak spot at the fade..my tillering does not suggest that it should bend at the fades but it still seems like a weak spot now.
Edit..I did cut the arrow rest with a coping saw so not to think it did it ALL with a rasp..
your lighter poundage bow should be ok.
if you are gonna cut in a shelf- one has to make sure that the whandle is a bit deeper.
but it looks ok to me from the pics.
well its a good thing it is my trail bow..
Thanks for so much help with this Roy..you have been very helpful along the way with so much feedback and photos to help me along..really appreciate it.
Anytime CamoZ. And I was truly impressed with the tiller on your first bow. ^5 Roy
I was happy with the evenness of it too..thanks..My next Hickory one I will be shooting for at least 40lb so I have to get the fades to mid limbs down a bit sooner than on this build so I can get the tiller more even from the start of the tiller process.
Here is a good info thread for you to read.
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000122
You bet..read that full article a bit before I started on this build..it is how I chose the oak board used for this build. I will re-read it for info on keeping poundage while tillering..
I am wondering if Mink Oil will work as a bit of a finish? It is all I have here, so just wondering if that is suitable?
Yes it will be fine, I'd do about 4 coats anyway. Just keep applying it until you like the results. Might not be water proof but will be water repellant.
Great..I did not want to have to go out to buy something. I will post a few pics in a while with the finished results..I am pretty happy with it for the first one...the handle turned out fairly decent..not exactly what I wanted but still okay nonetheless..
oh..wait..can you sand again after an application of mink oil..i know with urethane and such you sand between coats..is it the same for oils or will that just mess it up?
I have never used mink oil, so I don't know for sure. But I would imagine to just rub it on and just smooth it over with your hand till it's smooth and gone. Let it dry and do again and again. What's it say on the can? Or do a search online for it's application. I use tung oil and apply it with rubber gloves and I just saturate the bow, let it dry about 5 or 6 minutes and rub it off with a dry rag. I let it dry 24 hours and do it again, I do 4 coats.
I would much rather use tung oil. I have used it on many other wood projects and I like it. You can sand between coats with it I know. With Mink I am not sure if I can sand again once applied..I will do some more research..not finding much though on sanding between mink oil coats.
Make your next handle like this.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7427.jpg)
What kind of wood is that riser, ebony?
East Indian Rosewood
ah..I have some Madagascar Ebony, Zebra wood, Blood wood, Mahogany, Bo-cote, and Purple Heart..I will try out one of these as a riser next time. It looks like I can get away with a much thinner riser i I want too eh?
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_7426.jpg)
laminated..I think I will wait to tackle one of those..Can I use a 1/4" (or a lil less) riser? I will want the handle to be solid (not bend)..will a 1/4" riser, once shaped, bend at all?
1/4 too thin, use 1 inch.
What about using 2 different 1/4" pieces..say..one 1/4 Zebra, One 1/4 bo-cote,??
How about 3 of those?
could do..3 different woods ..might look funny though..hmm..1/4" riser and make one that bends in the middle?
Glue on risers ya don't want them bending in the middle. They go poof.
yea..i keep thinking I do not want to risk a bending handle style bow..too much work to have it bust up..