Still pretty new to this , but I thought I would share how I determine where to cut my shelf in.
When the bow is ready to shoot it still does not have a shelf cut in, and the handle is not completely finished of course. What works for me is to shoot off the hand in a few places to find that spot where felt vibrations and shock/ buzz etc is at the least.
It only takes a few arrows and the bow has told me where it wants the shelf.
Still holding the handle a quick tick with a pencil and best location on that bow for cuting in a shelf is marked. Then it's off to the saw. For some of the slim handles where I glue on a teardrop for a shelf, I slide the teardrop between my hand and the bow and locate the best spot, then mark/glue it on.
As little as a half inch can make the diference between a nice to shoot bow and a mule kicker.
Pete
Pete that's not a bad idea..
I like that plan. I've been noticing lately that several of my bows are much quieter shooting split finger, as opposed to 3 under. I prefer 3 under, but when you're more accurate and the bows quieter, the bow has spoken. I should try your approach, I suspect these observations are related.
I do the same thing, only use a floppy rest held in my hand while trying different locations. I also flip the bow so the other limb is up and try again till I find the best location, then glue the temporary floppy rest on with barge cement until it's all shot in and ready for finish. After finishing I attach the permanent rest.
This is what works for my selfbows, using my grip, and a glue on shelf. I start with finding the center balance point of the bow, raise the shelf 1/2", and adjust by feel from there. The sweet spot usually ends up within ± 1/8" of the 1/2" above the the balance point.
Same here, I locate the best spot by the way the bow feels when I shoot it. After I glue on a rest in the spot I chose, I fine tune the tillering to this spot.
This fine tuning is done by feel and watching the arrow flight.
If it works for Eric, I guess I stumbled onto a good thing. ;)
Just completed my first self bow and have been playing around with where to put the shelf....put it where it tunes the best, Thanks!
if you push with the palm (heel it) or only the crotch of your thumb/finger could you get the same ?????
Not sure. The grip on this bow is a straight Hill style, and I've been strictly a Hill bow shooter for the past couple of years, so heeling the bow is my norm.
Well there's more than one way to skin a cat, but none of that hocus pocus would work for me ;)
I want my bows perfectly balanced on my middle finger when I carry and shoot them, so when I'm laying the bow out, I offset the grip center from bow center a measured amount that I know will balance it. An eighth of an inch one way or the other can greatly affect how the bow balances. The bottom limb is then shorter and there will be no flipping the thing end for end. I've never had to do that once, btw. I choose top and bottom limbs for good reasons and they stay that way.
The handle and shelf never needs moved because I adjust relative limb strength to their exact location, not the other way around. Adjusting relative limb strength during tillering also eliminates noise and vibration. Handle, flares, dips, etc are all situated and completely shaped long before it's time to shoot. I like to plan the work and work the plan :)
Thanks for sharing that approach BJ. Based on what you're saying above, I just checked the middle finger balance point on this one and then measured up to the leather shelf I've glued on...1.75". Just out of curiosity, does this roughly correlate with your findings?
Due to my limited experience, I chose upper and lower limbs based on the knot locations. The stave I started with made it challenging to lay out. Very enjoyable, and am severely hooked!
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/rgreen1958/Osage%20Selfbow%201/006%202.jpg) (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/rgreen1958/media/Osage%20Selfbow%201/006%202.jpg.html)
Yes, roughly. Though I like mine to balance at about 1 1/4. The balance point of the bow is usually it's geographical center, or very close to it, so I lay them out so that the bow's center is about 1 1/4" down from the shelf.... or in other words, 3/4" above handle center.
Gotcha....and Thanks. This shelf is actually 1.5" above center. I could feel the 1/4" difference when I moved the shelf in the way it shot. One of the many rookie mistakes I made was laying out and roughing out the handle too early in the process.
Bowjunkie nailed my thoughts too.
You should decide from the outset and stick with it. Tuning being accomplished as the stave progresses into a bow.
Flipping a finished bow will over-strain the limbs, not a massive amount but noticeable if you know what to look for. Eg. the lower has to be a little stiffer due to the dynamics of shooting a bow.
Thanks Mike. Based on what y'all are saying, I'm glad I stuck with my original plan...well, except for the handle part. The other thing I learned was don't judge string location by laying your bow on your bench! The back gives you odd readings. James Rempp told me to ignore the string angle and tiller it out...then recheck. It was only by a fortuitous incident that I laid the bow over the bed of my truck and took note of what I saw. Dang'd if he wasn't right. I sure appreciate all his help and encouragement with this one!
I then hung the bow from the ceiling in my garage and plumbed a nut off the string to see for sure.
Which would you rather see?
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/rgreen1958/Osage%20Selfbow%201/009_3.jpg) (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/rgreen1958/media/Osage%20Selfbow%201/009_3.jpg.html)
Or
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/rgreen1958/Osage%20Selfbow%201/004_2.jpg) (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/rgreen1958/media/Osage%20Selfbow%201/004_2.jpg.html)
and then to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/rgreen1958/Osage%20Selfbow%201/011.jpg) (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/rgreen1958/media/Osage%20Selfbow%201/011.jpg.html)
I usually go 1.25 in but will move it as necessary. I don't cut a shelf in. I use leather to make a shelf or use no shelf at all. Jawge
I misread things originally and marked center, then 1" above and 3" below....then marked the shelf 1.25" up from the upper handle mark. Unfortunately I did this way early in the rough out.....mistake. Shot kinda funky from there once I was done and tied a temp shelf on it. Lol.
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/rgreen1958/Osage%20Selfbow%201/007.jpg) (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/rgreen1958/media/Osage%20Selfbow%201/007.jpg.html)
And yes George (BTW...thanks for all the great info that you share on your site) am using a leather shelf that has been soaked in superglue. Just now starting to trim and shape it.
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/rgreen1958/Osage%20Selfbow%201/007%203.jpg) (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/rgreen1958/media/Osage%20Selfbow%201/007%203.jpg.html)
Green, you are welcome. Jawge
Green, I doubt supporting the bow by the tips like that is giving you an accurate representation of the bow's alignment. I think supported that way, gravity will pull it straight down under a plumb bob every time, even if alignment is poor. In other words, in spite of any alignment issues, the bow is in effect, acting like a plumb bob itself.
That makes absolute sense. I guess the only way to truly get a true reading will be to hang a string off each tip then?
I lay out bows symmetrically. The center of the handle is the center of the bow. To determine where the arrow pass will go I place my middle finger on the center line, grip the handle and put a mark across the top on my hand, where the arrow pass will be.
Pat.....why do you have to complicate things so much? Lol.
Just keepin' it real, Rob! :D