This is my first thread here at tradgang!
I am excited to be part of tradgang, and I am new to the art of bowyering.
I have been looking at materials for building my first several bows, and I had some questions that maybe you wiser bowyers could answer...
What, in your opinion is the best bow hardwood for a recurve (target shooting)? Yew, I have heard is very popular. Is Ibe (ironwood) usable for this purpose? Are there hybrid tree sources yew/ibe, etc?
I have several design concepts for bows that I would like to turn into real working/functional bows. Can someone point me in the right direction on how to (or who can) modify the concept bows to functional real-world application? Thanks!
Welcome Nathan! :campfire:
Are you gonna build glass bows or selfbows , or board bows?
kenny- aka- not so wise builder..... :D
Is anyone familiar with the hardwood Kiri tree?
Opinions on Teak/Tectona?
Guaiacum officinale (lignum vitae) - reasonable to use? Opinions?
Goncalo Alves / Tiger ebony (Astronium Graveolens) opinions?
Hi Kenny,
Thanks for the welcome and quick reply!
I believe the self bow is the term closest to what I am looking to build.
The best way to describe it would be a functional concept recurve bow. Ideally one piece, but because of the custom parts, it may have to be a takedown. I know my designs would require significant modification to be functional.
Ipe backed with hockory or bamboo makes a good all wood bow, but it's one of the heaviest woods out there, so if you are going to build with glass you would be better off with something light (so I hear. I'm not much on glass.)
If you are looking at an all wood bow, it's hard to go wrong with Osage. Yew is a great wood, it's just harder to get.
Osage is the best.
Yew is softer but makes a real fine fine bow.
Glass bows are for sissy pants:)
Hey Roy,
The new guy said he wanted wisdom, so what brought you here :knothead:
There I thumped myself for ya,
That Osage is quite pretty, too bad we do not have it up this way.
And do dang bad all the yew and vine maple, and juniper grow on the other side of the state here.
Nothing but a few oaks, and maples for me, oh and apple, cherry and plum.
Welcome to the sight, these guys will do you right on here, OL' Roy is a real smart one, like alot of em on here.
Good luck
Your ok Frosty, I don't care what Obama says bout ya:)
Osage is number one for a selfbow. Ive worked with ipe and beefwood and both of them will make a fine bow but likely will need to be backed with hickory or bamboo. The other tropicals you mentioned I have no experience with. Your best bet is to find yourself an osage stave and get started. Hickory, hackberry, hophornbeam and black locust all make fine selfbows too.
Psych,
Thanks for the input! I am looking to make all-wood recurve bows, so that is very helpful.
Do you know of anyone in this forum that is great with design and modifications? I would really like to take my concepts to a workable design.
I am also interested in rare woods and crossed hardwood for uniqueness.
Excellent, that you for all the input gentlemen. Has Osage been a traditional bow material as yew was? I'm honestly not too familiar with its history..
Osage #1.....and some does grow in Virginia. If you can't find or get any you also have elm,oaks,white ash, to add to okies list...also any ornamentals like mulberry,plum,apple,peach,pear....etc....
You should have plenty of trees available to you to jump on in and get your feet wet. Don't try a recurve for your first. Just make a simple bend in the handle bow or pyramid bow and focus on how to tiller the most. Tillering is going to be the hardest thing to learn for you. And by trying the simplest and easiest designs lets you focus more on the most important task if bending wood evenly. There is a lot of good websites and books explaining tillering. Anyone who's never seen a bow can easily figure out how to shape wood,but making it bend correctly takes a whole nother set of skills to master.
What qualities make Osage superior to the others you have worked with, okie? Is it the flexibility of the Osage versus to rigidness of the ipe?
Black Mockingbird,
Thanks for the advice, duly noted. I picked up some public domain archery and bowyering books along with designs, I'm sure you know the ones I'm referring to. My goal is to convert my own 3d designs into functional bows. The classic recurve will be closest to that, but as you said, it is most likely best to start with more simple bow goals.
Welcome to the gang! You should find some very useful information and insights on here, so look through many of the threads. There are also several very good build alongs in their own section that will be of invaluable help to your endeavors. Start with a simple design, and that will give you confidence and a small investment to learn tillering (which is the true "art" part of bowyering I think).
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask for help, many guys on here are very experienced and quick to help. Have fun, and do educate us on some of the species you spoke of earlier, they sound intriguing!
Welcome, I too would suggest just starting with simpler bows than a recurve. Mainly to learn what tillering is all about.
Osage has many good qualities. Abilities include being bent by heat to straighten or reflex or recurve the ends.
IPE is more rigid and I've never tried to,heat bend it.
What the heck kind of handle is "GodsApocalypse"?
Hey Nathan. I would highly recommend you read "The Traditional Bowyer's Bible: Vol. I" to start out with. Check your library, you might get it there. If not, it's the best $25 or so you'll spend for making bows. Be warned, there are 3 more volumes you will want.
Also, spend some time reading the threads here. There is so much knowledge. Get a good idea about what you want to make and start asking specific questions. We will help.
Hey Nathan. What John said X2. Look at the build alongs in the archives. The Bowyer's Bible lists the different woods and tells why one is different than the others.
You can order a stave from some of the sponsors here on TG and start making some shavings! Or go to a lumber yard and start with a board bow.
Lots of ways to skin a cat is what my dad always says.
Thanks again for the encouraging words and information. I'm fairly familiar with the bowyers bible, just unaware the price was so reasonable! I will certainly pickup a copy of the four vol.s asap.
Shaun, the handle references John's Apocalypse, http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/revelation.html I studied law, philosophy, Bible, and religion at university, and have studied that particular prophecy since 6th grade. I do want to abide by forum rules; I am offering this information on forum only because it was asked.
If anyone has more questions on these topics, please feel free to pm me anytime, I am happy to share.
I came across stats of specific gravity of hardwoods, but I did not know how the flexibility of certain species play a role in the final stats, and I figured that most bowyers here had tried almost all main hardwood species including tropicals and exotics, so I thought I would ask.
Is it best, for the sake of experience, to start with one of the kits out there? If so, which do you recommend/prefer? Experience stories with the kits?
I had been looking through the buildalongs before joining, and I have gleaned much good information and there, thanks for the excellent recommendations!
Also, I am looking for hybrid woods such as Ipe/yew - I know this is only possible depending on how closely related they are, but I am looking for the most effective / strong / unique out there.
nathan, i see you writing ibe- are you referring to ipe . it makes an excellent compression wood, when combine with hickory or boo makes an excellent bow- or if you are crazy enough even combined with a "microthin osage stave"- will make a superb bow!!
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=009340
yew, has its own tension wood in the sapwood, or again use a backing, if no sapwood. or it is used as lams in glass bows.
sorry man, your link wont show!!
Wayne,
Absolutely correct, it may have been autocorrect, I'll edit to correct. Also the link you mentioned has been fixed, thanks for the heads up, and the info you gave on the superb bow is very interesting. In will have to experiment with that combination.
I said osage is number one for a selfbow, meaning an unbacked bow. The ipe, beefwood and purpleheart bows that I made were backed with hickory and they made fine bows but I just enjoy building selfbows more than backed bows. I guess they would probably work as an unbacked bow if you found a knot-free board with straight grain. Osage likes to be bent, it bends easily with heat, scrapes easily, it is very forgiving of mistakes during tiller and is very available where I live at. The tropical woods are a beast to bend with heat, hard as a rock to scrape or sand and they are very expensive to buy at a lumberyard.
Okie,
I have been reading about Osage orange some more since the recommendations have been in that direction. I have heard that there is some even in Virginia, can anyone verify this? I would love to be able to work from a stave that I have produced. I understand there is also another level of expertise that is required to do that. Opinions?
To me there is nothing more satisfying than building a bow from a tree that I picked out and take through the whole process. Yes you can ruin a lot of good wood if you dont know what you're doing and how to season it. The best way Ive found to season osage is cut it, split it in half, seal the ends, spray the bark for bugs and let it sit inside(not outside or in a woodshed)for a month or two before further splitting. Others may disagree but I leave the bark on mine until Im ready to make a bow which is usually a couple of years. With whitewoods you can cut them in the spring or summer and the bark will peel easily, this will save you from ring chasing if you dont enjoy that part of the build.
Blackhawk said there is osage in virginia so I reckon you need to get out there and start looking. It will grow almost anywhere but the best place to find it around here is in creek bottoms or small valleys. Its pretty easy to spot at this time of year, from a distance the tree will usually look like a tangled up mess for the most part and the limbs and canopy have a certain distinct color to them. The female trees will probably still have some horseapples laying on the ground around them too.
My favorite wood is osage for selfbows.
My favorite composite bow combonation is bamboo backed osage.
I feel that making a selfbow requires more time to learn and more creativity. Making composites is more like assembly for me. It's much more predictable and a recipe can be used. It's generally not that way with selfbows, particularly when goingfrom tree to stave to bow.
If you want to make an osage selfbow, there is no better reference than "Hunting an Osage Bow" by Dean Torges. For that matter, his video "Hunting a Bamboo Backed Osage" is probably the best on making a composite bow.
http://bowyersedge.com/hobhbb.html