Hi guys,
I've become a fan of the old school Hill style bows like the ones built by John Schulz or currently by David Miller and Dave Johnson. So for this one I'm going with brown glass on the back and gray glass on the belly with a myrtle riser. While I was at it I'd figured I'd take some pics and do a bow build since there seems to be a growing interest in this style of bow.
So here's my materials...laminations from Kenny M, and myrtle riser block from IdahoCurt.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0579.jpg)
My stack for this one is:
0.040 brown glass
three 0.090 amber actionboo parallels
one 0.110 amber actionboo 0.002 tapered
0.040 gray glass
This is a bit of an experiment for me because I have always used 0.050 glass in my previous Hill style bows, but I bought a bunch of 0.040 glass from a fellow trad ganger a while ago and figured I'd use it and see what happens. This recipe does violate the rule of thumb of 20 - 25% glass in the stack (at 17%) so I might get some set in the limbs. Oh well, I've always wanted a string follow design anyway ;)
After squaring up the riser block, I traced my pattern and cut it out on the bandsaw. My riser is 16" in length, 1 3/4" deep and 1 1/2" wide.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0583.jpg)
I don't cut to the line on the bandsaw. I use an oscillating spindle sander to get down to the line. I back the fadeouts with another squared up block of wood for support while sanding.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0586.jpg)
The trick is to get the ends of the fadeouts paper thin to the point where you can see light through them. I try to always keep the riser moving on the spindle sander so that I minimize any "bumps" in the fadeout areas.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0587.jpg)
Once I've got the fadeouts sanded to shape on the spindle sander, I also hand sand them to get out any "bumps" that might be there. I use a curved block of wood that was the product of cutting the fadeouts from a previous bow and has 80 grit sandpaper glued to it.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0590.jpg)
OK - The riser is ready for glue up.
Next I joined the paired laminations together to make one continuous lam. Kenny marks the ends of matching lamination halves.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0580.jpg)
I use a disk sander fitted with a jig to taper the ends of each lamination half. I like to put a pretty good taper on each half as this increases the gluing surface and helps to keep them from coming apart during glue up.
I match up the tapered ends and use a straight edge to make sure the entire lamination is straight. They are glued together with titebond and I use a piece of masking tape to hold them together until the glue dries.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0592.jpg)
That's as far as I got this evening. I've got tomorrow off work and I sure as heck ain't goin' shoppin' on Black Friday. I'll do the glue up tomorrow morning.
This is awesomely detailed. I'm gonna be following this one till the end!!
Good luck with the build, I've been wanting to try one myself. Looking forward to seeing it complete.
Not too shabby for a guy from Howard, Pa:) I might just check back myself.
Thanks for taking the time to share this. I've been contemplating a build like this myself and this helps.
Like the curved sanding block idea. I make HH style too and it never occurred to me to true the curves in that manner. Been using an engineers square and file to finish them but the curved block would go a long way to smoothing the curve. Looking forward to the rest of the build.
Awesome John!!! I'll be watching too.
Oh yeah, we will be watching from across the pond also. Any chance of seeing the jig on the disc sander used to join the laminations? Bue--. :)
I love it!
Buemaker - The jig on the disc sander is nothing more than a block of wood cut at some angle (don't even know what angle it is)and clamped to the table of the disc sander. It's a sharp enough angle that I get about 1/4" of gluing surface on a lamination.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0591.jpg)
So I did the glue up this morning. Like most everyone I use Smooth-On and mix it in equal amounts resin:hardner. Two dixie cups of each is more than enough to do a bow. I remember when I was building my first bow, I was working like a mad man for fear that the Smooth-On would start hardening before I had it all put together. I soon found out that you have plenty of working time with Smooth-On.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0596.jpg)
After the Smooth-On is mixed together, I let it sit for about 15 minutes while I get all my other stuff together. This gives it time for the air bubbles that got in there while mixing to come out.
Here I am spreading the Smooth-On on the laminations. I use a cheap plastic putty knife for this. I put Smooth-On on both sides of the lams and I use plenty. It makes a mess, and a lot is just wasted once the form squeezes it out, but I've never had any issues with voids or streaks under clear glass (not that you'd notice on this bow anyway with the colored glass.)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0597.jpg)
I'm doing a little bit different design on this bow from what I normally do. All four laminations are on the back side of the riser and only the belly glass comes up the riser fadeouts.
Here is the glueup setting on the bottom part of the form. Of course I had a layer of plastic wrap over the form and then another layer over the laminations and riser so I don't glue the bow to the form :knothead: On top are my tin pressure strips running down each limb. The whole thing has packing tape anchoring it to the form so it doesn't move once the air hose is inflated.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0598.jpg)
Lay on the air hose; bolt on the top of the form, and inflate to 70 psi. You'll notice some other scrap wooden blocks I attached to the form with screws. These are important to keep your laminations from spreading as the air hose is inflated. I put these at the ends of the riser fadeouts and near the limb tips. I almost lost a bow once when I didn't have the blocks at the tips and the laminations spread and I didn't notice until the thing had cured. Luckily there was still enough overlap down the center that I still got a bow out of it - Won't make that mistake ever again.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0600.jpg)
And here is my hot box made from plywood with four 100 watt light bulbs in it. It's lined with 1/2" insulation. After the bow is in there and the lights are turned on, I also cover it with some old blankets for more insulation. It will get to about 150 degrees and I let the bow cook for about 6 hours.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0595.jpg)
That's all for now. I'll get some pics up later tonight or tomorrow moring when I pull it out of the hotbox and form.
Looking sweet, Johnny
Nice detailed buildalong John!
I think you're OK, no matter what Ol Roy say. :bigsmyl:
Very nice! When Your lams are spliced will all of the splices be in the same spot on Your stack or will they be staggered somehow?
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
Looking sweet, Johnny
Roy must still be on a turkey high from yesterday.
Anyway, thanks for the compliments on this build so far. It's got another hour or so to cook and then we'll see what we got.
bretto - Yes the splices are in the same spot in the center of the riser, but the direction of the splices alternates.
I could have said, I guess it looks ok:)
And I have a question, what is a Lonbow? :)
Don't you know, it's a bow you shoot in your yard! :knothead:
Dave.
OK Roy, thanks for pointing out that spelling is not my strong point - I corrected it. I think it was Mark Twain who said that a man is pretty stupid if he can only spell a word one way.
Anyway, back to the build.
I turned off the lights and let the bow cool down and then pulled it off the form. Lots of plastic and glue boogers to clean up.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0601.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0602.jpg)
So it was back to the oscillating spindle sander to first grind off the boogers and then rough shaping of the limbs. I like the spindle sander for this because it gets rid of matrial quick with a coarse drum on it. Again I don't go to the line.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0604.jpg)
I should have mentioned earlier that I draw the limb width profile on the tape covering the back glass prior to glue up. It's just easier measuring and drawing on a single flat pice of glass. If everything stays put during the glue up, I'm good to go. If things move, then I lay out the centerline and width profile again. In this case, everything stayed true.
I was happy with the way my glue lines turned out.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0603.jpg)
Once I got the profile close on the spindle sander, I then used a belt sander clamped to a workbench to get to the final profile. The spindle sander leaves bumps along the edge while the belt sander smooths them all out.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0605.jpg)
Now its starting to look like a bow. Tomorrow I'll start on the string grooves and get a string on it.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0606.jpg)
Ya don't suppose those bumps along the side are coming from the Goose Island Bottle? Whatever in the world that is. :laughing: Ya gonna put tip over lays on her?
Looking good Johnny Boy:)
whats ya dimensions 1 1/8'' at fades down to 1/2'' at nock? would love to have a spindle sander myself. Only got a big disc sander[12''] and a 3''drum sander that runs off my pedestal drill.I know HH used to have all his lams on the back but i like one belly lam with the belly glass.Looking forward to seeing the finished bow, should be a looker!
I have two questions, if you don't mind?:
Why are the only beer bottles I have ever seen in bowyer pics are from the two PA guys that I know of?
and...
On a more serious note, can you educate me as to what exactly, first, a Hill style bow is, and second, what an old style Hill style bow is ?
thanks
Goose Island is one fine beverage. Lots of flavor and there's no fruit in it! What else is there do to in PA - Build bows, kill stuff, and drink beer :thumbsup: (I just need to keep up with the trend that Roy started while making bows and wanted to test if you guys would notice).
My dimensions right now are 1 1/4" at the fadeouts and it maintains that width for 18" out from center, then tapers to 1/2" at the nocks. I may decrease the width some more if I need to drop a little weight, but we'll see where it is once I get a string on it.
Steve B. - You'll probably get several different answers as to what a Hill style is depending who you ask, but generally it is a longbow with a straight,reflex, or string follow profile (no reflex/deflex) with a fairly straight grip (can be dished or minor locator style). Folks often call these "D" bows since they string to the shape of a "D". I prefer not to use that term because some mild r/d bows also string to a "D" and the term "D" bow historically referred to the cross section of the limb - like an English longbow. It's only been recently that folks started to call Hill style longbows "D bows". David Miller uses the term "American Semi-Longbow" for this style of bow. I call this one an "Old School" Hill style bow because I'm using myrtle in the riser, which was a favorite years ago, and contrasting back and belly colored glass which you don't see to often anymore with the proliferation of the use of clear glass. It does seem like colored glass is gaining in popularity again.
I've got the tip overlays glued on and drying right now. I'll post some more pics later today.
Watch your width at fades! I took a .002 taper down too narrow and ended up sanding taper into the glass. :eek:
monterey - So why did you sand taper into the glass? Was it flexing too much near the fades? I won't need to go any narrower on this one, so 1 1/4 is where it will stay.
I got a lot done today. The wife was shopping and the kids were helping Grandma put up Christmas decorations.
Here's a little jig I use for cutting string grooves. I put it on the bow and use a hacksaw to score where I will then run my round file to make the string grooves.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0607.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0608.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0609.jpg)
After I got the string grooves cut I added some tip overlays. These aren't anything fancy. Just some myrtle to match the riser. I use Kwik-It to glue them one. You'll notice in the pic below that I put masking tape where I want the end to be and I bevel that end prior to glueing them on. This makes final shaping and blending them into the back glass a lot easier later on. I also leave them wider than the bow and sand them down to shape after the glue has dried.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0612.jpg)
I let the Kwik-It dry for about an hour and then rough shaped the tips enough to get a string on them.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0616.jpg)
Strung it up and checked the tiller. It looked pretty good, but one limb was a little stiffer than the other (about 3/4" difference when measured at the tips), so I ran a pass with the belt sander down both edges of that limb which braught it back into 1/8" difference between the limbs.
Here's a pic at brace height.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0615.jpg)
And one on a tiller stick at 18" of draw.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0614.jpg)
I have never had a problem with getting the string on a straight longbow to track down the center.
At this point, the bow drew 59# at 28" which is where I wanted to be :thumbsup:
I was hoping for mid 50's when its finished and I'll lose another 3 - 5 pounds once the edges of the limbs are rounded over.
I designated the limb that was a little stiff as the bottom which makes for a 1/8" in positive tiller for shooting split finger. Then I marked where the shelf and site window would go. This bow will be 3/16" out from center shot. I use a hacksaw to cut down to the depth of the shelf and a japanese rasp to cut out the site window. I love these rasps - they never clog and eat wood in a hurry.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0619.jpg)
Here's the finished shelf and site window.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0620.jpg)
Next came my favorite part of building a bow - shaping the riser. I mostly use that japanese rasp for this and also a four-in-one rasp. This one will have a slightly dished grip. When I'm shaping a riser, I use a facet technique where I measure along each side of a corner, draw a line, and rasp until create a flat surface between the lines. I then go back and round off the new corners. This method makes it easier to get a uniformly round grip by the time your done.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0622.jpg)
I also rounded the edges of the limbs with a rasp followed by 80 grit sand paper and shaped the limb tips.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0625.jpg)
Everybody always shows the "pretty side" of their limb tips, but here is also a pic of the belly side for the beginners that might be reading this. It's important to knock off any sharp corners on the belly side of the tips so that your strings don't get nicked up and last a lot longer. It took me a couple bows figure this out and I have gone back and re-sanded a few that I've built because I was getting excessive string wear.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0626.jpg)
After rounding the edges of the limbs and shaping the tips, I put a string back on it and it is now 56# at 28" - Just what I wanted :)
So everything is pretty well shaped at this point and now I have A LOT of sanding to do (the boring part of building a bow).
What kind of bowyer uses a sissy pants guide to make string grooves? Us wood bow guys don't do that, we just let the beer be the guide. :laughing:
That is very slick John, might have to break down and make me one of those. Bow looks real nice, can't wait to see it at the Pa Longbow Shoot in June. And Steve, cause we can:)
Very nice. I can't wait for the pictures of the finished bow.
Dave.
Looks great John! Thanks for taking the time to the buildalong and I can't wait to see the finished product!!
Jsweka, yes that was exactly the problem, too much bend at the fades. Mine was down to about 1 1/16th" with an 17 inch riser and 68" NTN. I have used this exact same set up to make bows in the 1 3/8" to full 1 1/2" with no problem as long as the outer limbs narrow enough.
Your tiller looks pretty good in the photo.
Nice tip overlays. Gotta get one of those japanese rasps!
I'm now down to sanding the bow. I went over the whole thing with 80 grit to remove any tool marks left from the various rasps I've used so far. I'll keep sanding with progressively finer grits over the next couple evenings and finish up with 320 grit.
I took the masking tape off the limbs to see what it really looks like.
Here's the back with brown glass.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0642.jpg)
And here's the belly with gray glass.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0640.jpg)
What do ya'll think about the gray glass? I imagine you'll either love it or hate it. I like it because it's something you don't see everyday, but is not over the top gaudy.
I really like the gray glass, I just wish it was more readily available. Nice bow and build along, this is one that is on my to do list.
That's looking real nice. The bow that is ,not the beer. I find that using just the right amount of whiskey helps finish things up. Be careful though as too much will sometimes end in breakage.
Wow that baby is really coming along!! I'm liking the brown and grey glass :thumbsup:
I really like the brown/ grey glass combo.
John, looks amazing so far! I am sure you are wanting a finished bow as bad as I want to see it.
I like that grey just fine! It will be somewhat unique in the field.
I tried sanding with whiskey but it did not raise the grain like plain old water. Would think beer to be a much better assistant in sanding! Just my own barbaric opinion though!
I had some bad reactions to whiskey back in my college days. I'll stick with beer for this bow. :bigsmyl:
I guess it's OK:)
John, that riser is really sharp, can't wait to see it finished.
Looking better and better! :thumbsup:
Dave.
Thanks guys.
Nothing really new to talk about or post pics of. Just lots of sanding. I may be able to put the first coat of finish on it tomorrow night.
This is the point in bow building that I start to lose patience. I wanna shoot that sucker!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by DVSHUNTER:
The bow that is ,not the beer. I find that using just the right amount of whiskey helps finish things up. Be careful though as too much will sometimes end in breakage.
so SO true. :D
LOL Karrow. Yes so true:)
What's ya gonna put on for a finish, Johnny Boy?
If it were me, I'd mix some Goose Island and true oil together and slap it on:) :laughing:
LOL...Probably some Goose Island and poly.
(I gotta get me some more Goose Island).
Nice bow-build, John. A Hill bow is on my "someday" list.
After final sanding of everything, it ended up at 54# @ 28" and I just put the first coat of finish on the bow. I use Minwax wipe on polyurathane. It's easy to apply and doesn't stink up the house with any odors. I'll put 5 - 6 coats and rub it down with steel wool in between coats.
I'm still deliberating on what you use for a handle wrap - either typical leather laced up the back or I was thinking about using leather cord wrapped around the handle like what Frank San Marcos uses on his bows. Either way, I should have it finished up and shooting this weekend :archer:
YUP.
Nice build along, John. It really came together well and looks great! Looking forward to your finished pictures.
-Jay
looking great!!
Pics! gotta have pics!
Can't wait to see the finished bow. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.
Looks great! I like the grey glass. :thumbsup:
Very nice build along and explanation of what is being done. Thanks for doing this for us wannabes.
Should look great finished.
I just put on the last coat of finish.
Tomorrow night I'll put a handle wrap and leather rest on and give it a work out on Saturday.
Stay tuned...Finished pics coming soon :jumper:
:thumbsup:
Looking forward to the pictures, John.
Man, I cussed myself out good tonight. I thought this bow would be finished tonight, but I found a big run in the coat of finish I put on last night. Ticked me off :mad:
So I had to do some sanding and put another coat on it. Finished pics will be up tomorrow.
I hate when that happens. At least you caught it pre-grip.
Yeah, but if it would have been about 1 1/2 inches lower it would have been covered by the grip.
I showed it to my wife and she gave me a lecture..."Well, if you wouldn't have been so excited to finish it you wouldn't have started doing sloppy work." Nothing like adding insult to injury.
Awesome build along! Thanks for sharing in such great detail! :notworthy: :campfire:
That's what happens when ya mix the Goose Island stuff up:) Rookie mistake. LOL, sorry John.
I'm outta Goose Island and gotta get me some more. If I would have had a few Goose Islands mixed in, I probably wouldn't have screwed up.
Anyway...I did finish it up today, so here's some finished pics.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0654.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0656.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0652.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0655.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0653.jpg)
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0659.jpg)
And the obligatory full draw pic.
(http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae23/jsweka/BowBuild/SAM_0662.jpg)
I gave it a good workout trying different shafts and I found I got the best flight with 55-60# spined heavy ash shafts and 125 grain heads shot with the cock feather in. I like it :thumbsup:
Thanks for following along on this build!
Real nice, John.
Thanks Roy.
I'll let you try it out at Marsh Hill (If it ain't to heavy for ya ;) )
John that turned out nice!!
Looks great John!!
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper: Thanks for the build along! If I ever get the guts to try this I'm giving Kenny a call.
That turned out nice. Looks great.
Thanks for the compliments guys.
Jon - Kenny is definitley the the person to call for supplies. On this bow, I sent Kenny and email with what I needed as far as lams on a Sunday evening and they were here the following Wednesday.
That's sharp looking, great job.
Thanks for the build john, inspired me to take a whack at it again. I love the grey glass, but am partial to white here too.
Nice bow, John.
Thanks Todd & Stan.
I like white on the belly too - like the bows built by Dave Johnson. I already had some gray glass that I bought from another trad ganger a couple years ago and was waiting for the right bow to use it on. Someday down the road I will have one with white glass too.
Very classy and elegant.
Very nice John! You're right....you are the best bowbuilder in the world!! lol
He is not, Keith.
I am:)
Thanks Keith.
Roy's OK at it too, I guess.
That did turn out quite nice. Great lookin bow. :thumbsup:
I'm very impressed with the look of the myrtle wood. Kinda understated yet very eye catching!
Think your brace height looks a bit high, but thats just me.
Good job turned out looking really nice, and I liked the trick with the guide for the nocks :)
Great build a long... one question which I can never ever ever figure out... How do you figure the curve of the fade area and make it so uniform. I would love to build one of this in the future and just cant figure out how to make the fade area similar.
This build a long is def getting bookmarked in my favorites. Will be checking back on this thing soon!!
Great job!
Justin
Thanks Guys. I was kind of surprised to see this brought back up.
Justin - The curve for the fade out area was copied from a pattern I had from plans for a Binghams bow. Really theres nothing to. Just draw half of the riser pattern on a piece of paper or poster board, fold it in half, cut it out and it's the same on both ends. Transfer this to something a little more rigid and then you have a pattern you can use over and over. You will notice that the curve on the fadeouts will differ somewhat among bowyers even for similar style bow.
Turned out very nice. In the book Traditional Bowyers of America one of the bowmakers featured was asked about the shape of fade outs in his bows. His answer was that he traced the shape of a toilet seat. I think his name is Hamilton. :) Bue--.
Nice build-a-long. I dont care what anybody sez I will be makin me one of them sissy pants string groove thingys :clapper:
Great looking bow! I enjoyed the full draw pic, tiller is very nice. What was the bows length? I seem to have missed that part.
Thanks. I was surprised to see this one brought back up.
The bow's length is 68".
Since this build, I did go back and decrease the depth of the grip a little bit and then of course had to refinish it again.
John,When sanding the bow, do you sand the glass as well? Burt
I don't touch the glass until the final sanding with 320 grit. It helps the finish adhere and gets rid of any streaks due to any uneven surface film on the glass.
Where did you get the gray glass? I've been looking for different colored glass.
thanks for sharing....nice....real nice...
><>>
Glenn
Charles - I bought the gray glass from another guy who was selling all his bow building stuff. He got it from another guy years prior to that who was selling his stuff. I really have no idea how old that glass is.
Well it looks great. I have a friend who made all of his own glass and carbon lams...he's selling all of his equipment for pennies on the dollar...thought about going that route so I could make any color glass I wanted...but that's all I need is another hobbie!
TTT good nock filing jig, nice bow also. Bue--.
Thanks Bue.
I was a bit surprised to see this old one brought back up. This bow is coming with me next week on a Maryland Sika hunt as my backup bow.
That glass was from the late 90's. Wish they would come out with more of it. I sold it to John 5 or 6 yrs ago. Starting to get the building itch again.
Rob - I knew you'd get the itch again.
OMC Bowyer Supply(Old Master Crafters bought up by Jim Belcher) has some gray glass on their website.