Just daydreaming outloud and kicking some ideas around. Has anybody ever tried taking 2 pieces of bamboo with nodes intact and gluing them back to back either in an R/D shape or just raised tips glued in reflex? I did have a MOAB Thunderstick at one time that appeared to be all bamboo (tri lam) with glass on both sides back and belly that was wicked quick. What I had in mind was just a boo backing glued to boo backing with no glass and a handle blank in between.
Any thoughts or info on this much appreciated.
That sounds cool. I guess you would taper the two slats towards the ends and tiller by sanding the edges. I'd like to see a bow like that.
Dave.
That's kinda what I had in mind, but wasn't sure if the belly slat would take the compression or not. Plus I have no idea on what thickness of the 2 pcs. of boo I would need, and what kind of poundage it would yield? I have some boo backings that range from 3/16 to 1/4" thick as is, when flattened I could get them thinner. I do think it would look really cool and I saw a trade bow last year that was nearly identical to this with the exception of having Ipe as a core wood. I think the bowyer put the extra boo on the belly because of some issues with the Ipe he started out with if I'm not mistaken. I believe he also said that it was the fasted bow he had made to date?
Anybody remember this?
I was at the TN Classic last year and I seen a guy that had one that had a boo backing with the nodes on it and another piece with the nodes on it for the belly. I can't remember if it had a core or not. I can't remember if it was a R/D or not. Talked to him about it and he got into how he bought it for just 200 dollars so me and a buddy tried to buy it off of him but we failed. I didn't see how it shot but it looked pretty cool though so it can be done.
I don't think the belly lam would be a problem. Just look at fly rods. I think I saw a bow with a bamboo belly before. The only concern I have is how thick and wide to make the bow if you build it with only bamboo.
If you add a hardwood core lam, then the boo could be planed thin.
I'm liking this. I might try an all bamboo bow and if it comes out too light I'll give it to my Niece or Nephew.
Dave.
Marc St Louis wrote an article in a recent Primitive Archer Magazine about making an all bamboo bow.
I have a Cane Dragon, by Vinson Minor, that has boo back and belly with a maple core(boo could be substituted) and a boo back and belly bow with ipe core made by David Knight. Both are good shooting bows.
This idea is sounding more promising all the time! Keep the input coming guys, I'm liking this. :thumbsup:
The Japanese have been making all bamboo bows, for a few thousand years :D . Don
Lol samurai weapon smiths built lots of things that most mortals aren't capable of though.
Yep! :goldtooth:
Like this?
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Tom%20Bates%20BBB%202011/Toms-Bow-5.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Tom%20Bates%20BBB%202011/Toms-Bow-4.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Tom%20Bates%20BBB%202011/Toms-Bow-3.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae321/isaacscr/Tom%20Bates%20BBB%202011/Toms-Bow-7.jpg)
I got this as a rough blank from James Parker. It doesn't have a bamboo core, but does has a boo back and belly. The belly lam has been carbonized (i.e. heat tempered). You CAN tiller by removing wood from the sides, but not very much; it takes a LOT of side wood removal if you're tiller isn't near dead-nuts from the get go. You really need to get each lam bending good on it's own. Then, if you have any problems, you can alternate between side wood removal and knee tillering. The latter is a technique James uses on his all boo bows whereby he actually imparts localized bending over his knee in stiff areas. This actually induces a small, target amount of set.
Also, be sure to alternate/stagger your node placement between the belly and back lams or you'll get a week spot that will cave/break.
I sure hope that helps :)
Your handle treatment is uniquely beautiful, 4est! James builds a pretty good bow doesn't he. You ought to watch him carbonize the boo belly strips. Scarry!!!
That bow is a beauty. Am I right in guessing that the belly lams are heat treated using a flame and done before glue up?
Does anyone know how thick the bamboo needs to be for a bow in the 45# to 50# range?
Dave.
Yes, the belly is tempered before the glue up. I think at one time you could buy tempered boo belly strips from James (Huntworthy Productions). I suppose with a little looking you could find another source.
Pat: Yeah, he build one heck of a bow! If he tempers bamboo like his finishes a bow, I bet he looks like a bat out of Hades with a blowtorch!
James uses a big propane rosebud torch. Le looks like he starting back fires.
Dave, The boo should not be any thicker than 1/8" at the crown at the handle. From there it can be parallel or tapered to the tips. The boo should be neat final thickness before tempering it too, I think.
David Knight(Primal Need Archery) may have carbonized boo belly strips.
4est- That's exactly what I was thinking about, thanks so much for the pics! I had completely forgotten about that bow until you posted those pics, now I remember you posting those a few months ago. It looks like it has some osage in there as well? Absolutely georgous!
I have a bunch of slats and a torch. I'll set up outside and burn one before finish planing. I found that if you heat bamboo it cups towards the heat, so you have to plane it again anyway. I think I'll try 1/8" back and belly and taper both to 1/16" and add a tip wedge.
Are two 1/8" slats enough to get a reasonable draw weight? Or should I add someting else. A bamboo power lam?
My appologies to Semo-Hunter. I seem to have hijacked your thread. :o
Dave.
Mike at Pine Hollow may have some good info, He had some like that at Kalamazoo in January
Not at all Dave, I'm really starting to get my creative juices flowing again with all this talk about bamboo bows. I've been out to the garage no less than half dz. times staring up into the rafters at my boo backings to see which pair would yield the draw wt. that I'm looking for. :jumper:
Also eyeballing my osage I have on hand and see if I could saw a nice piece out to plane down for a core lam. Sure wish I had the correct tools for the job, but poor men have poor ways and I always seem to find a way to get it whittled out.
You can build a fine shooter by using just two pieces of boo Chris. Stagger the nodes, and heat temper the belly (before glue-up). Add a tip wedge to beef that area up and plan on around 1/2" limb thickness at mid-limb. 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" limb width depending on length. Good luck..........Art
I'll have to check on the width of my boo, but after flattening out nice and flat on the bottom of the slats, those dimensions shouldn't be a problem. I kinda figured to keep it at least 1 1/4" wide at the fades out about 12" or so then straight taper to the tip from there, sound about right?
Thanks for the tips Art.
What about the thickness of the two lams?
I keep getting the feeling that two 1/8" lams might result in a low poundage bow.
Dave.
Art said, "and plan on around 1/2" limb thickness at mid-limb"
So I'm guessing that 1/4" thickness on each slat without a belly core. I'm actually thinking about maybe an osage core if I can thin one down without it breaking and maybe going with about .040 on that? May have to plane it in 2 sections though?
Trying to taper the boo slats toward the tips is what's got me bumfuzzled. I don't have any way to do that yet. :knothead:
It certainly would look nice with an accent up the middle. I have cherry, walnut and jatoba that I could use. I'm not sure if I can get it that thin though. I don't have a drum sander and My planer might eat the wood if I went below 1/8". So, how does a 3/16" back, 1/8" core of hardwood and a 1/8" belly lam sound? Maybe add a thin power lam to beef up the middle? And tip wedges.
Dave.
Not all bamboo but i am just finishing an bamboo back and belly bow with 3 lams of osage in the middle. These are fast becoming my favorite bows.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ken Allen:
Not all bamboo but i am just finishing an bamboo back and belly bow with 3 lams of osage in the middle. These are fast becoming my favorite bows.
Ken - would you mind sharing some particulars with us? Like width, length, and thickness of the lams including the back and belly thickness of the boo lams? I'm seriously going to persue this and I think Wood Carver is also very interested, so any help would be much appreciated and may save quite a bit of time on the trial and error. Not to mention material waste. Any pics would be great as well. Thank you in advance.
QuoteOriginally posted by wood carver 2:
It certainly would look nice with an accent up the middle. I have cherry, walnut and jatoba that I could use. I'm not sure if I can get it that thin though. I don't have a drum sander and My planer might eat the wood if I went below 1/8". So, how does a 3/16" back, 1/8" core of hardwood and a 1/8" belly lam sound? Maybe add a thin power lam to beef up the middle? And tip wedges.
Dave.
That would add up to nearly 1/2" total thickness depending on the core lam thickness, and based on what I've already built in BBO's most of mine were right at 50# and total thickness mid limb were right at 1/2" or just a tad bit more. I'd say that should be in the ball park of what your looking for. I like to keep mine between 50-55# tops, but then different woods and different combos of woods together will determine the poundage also even if the thickness is different. I'd say the first one would be an educated guess at best, then we'd have a good idea what was needed to hit target wt. on each build thereafter.
Don't know if this counts or not, but my Dad and I are building one this weekend using only boo. But no nodes on the belly. Will post pics when she's done.
I just got done reading through that link VB and what an awesome build. That young guy used way less tools than I have for his BBB build and still made a great looking bow. I guess that I don't have anything to complain about do I? Maybe he's just short and skinny for his age, but Nick looked like he was about 14yrs. old back in 2009. :biglaugh:
Just goes to show that you don't necessarily have to be an old dawg to know something, huh?
Thanks for the link it was a great help and I've got it saved in my favorites!
JT, I'd be very interested to see your bow build.
I've got a few ideas now, but the more I see, the more I learn. :thumbsup:
Thanks.
Dave.
QuoteOriginally posted by jtbluefeather871:
Don't know if this counts or not, but my Dad and I are building one this weekend using only boo. But no nodes on the belly. Will post pics when she's done.
I'd definitely like to see it too, please post pics when it's done. You can post them here or start a new post whichever you wish.
I'm interested in how it's going to work with the nodes removed. Do you mean just sanding the nodes down smooth or planed flat like a lam?
Here's what I've come up with so far. In the pics you'll see my 2 bamboo backings that I've picked out that will allow me to alternate the nodes for a 60" bow. Then my pattern drawn out on thin birch plywood, and the 3-15" plus chunks of actionwood for the handle portion that I got from KennyM, very nice stuff!
My layout for the bow goes like this.
1 1/2" center out to 12" down the limb, then narrows to 1 1/4", 10" further down narrows to 1", then narrows down to 1/2" at the tips. Looks like a nice even taper to me, but I haven't cut the template out yet cause I need a new bandsaw blade and wanted everyone's opinion on this design before I waste a good piece of plywood on it.
Also torn between which color scheme to go with on the actionwood. I've got from left to right Desert Camo, Green Camo, and Grey Camo.........I'm leaning toward Desert Camo with a pair of diamond backs or prairie rattlers over the boo back when it's satisfactory to me. I've also got brown Fiebings leather dye to go with that color scheme on the belly. Should look pretty awesome if all goes well.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/TheBambooBackedBambooBegins003.jpg)
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/TheBambooBackedBambooBegins002.jpg)
Looking good! I haven't done anything but think about it so far. I like the desert camo to go with the skins. I'm going to torch my belly and use a thin (maybe 1/8") jatoba lam in the middle and a tip wedge. I'll go with 1 1/2" at the fades or a bit farther out, then taper to 1/2" and when I'm done, I'll taper the last 8" to 3/8". I'm going to use a riser that I salvaged from a failed bow and cut a shelf in it.
By the looks of things, you're going to finish before me. I'm working some dumb hours this week, so I might not have much time to play.
Dave.
Well, I'll probably be a bit slower on mine also. Getting the materials together and a good plan in place is half the battle. Once I get rolling on it everything should click right along from that point. I just want to think this through diligently before I dive into it cause that's how I normally screw things up. LOL
Does anybody have a good pattern or some dimensions for the fades on the riser block? I'm thinking about 12" total length on the riser including the fades, but not sure where to start the fades and what radius I should use on the taper? Any help on this would be much appreciated.
Also while I'm thinking about it Dave, when you mentioned tip wedge...........would you explain that a bit more? And would you still use a wedge if you plan to do tip overlays? Cause I've planned on tip overlays out of some off fall from the riser block.
The one on the left has bamboo back and belly with osage and ipe cores. Came out nice a little light but heavy enough to hunt with.
IMG]http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/Dmaxshawn/DSC02187.jpg[/IMG]
The one on the left has bamboo back and belly with osage and ipe cores. Came out nice a little light but heavy enough to hunt with.
(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/Dmaxshawn/DSC02187.jpg)
I'm only a beginner, so don't take anything I say as gospel. I like to go by the seat of my pants, but I learn fast. I'm just thinking of using real thin wedges maybe 1/8" tapering to nothing, about 6" long to stiffen the tips. I just thought the tips might come out a bit weak otherwise. I guess I'll see if they're needed when I do a dry run. I'll make the overlays small - just a bit of antler or bone or whatever strikes me at the time.
Dave.
Nice bows Shawn. Very similar to what I have in mind.
Dave.
Oh yes Shawn very nice! I could only hope that mine would look that good, that's exactly what I had in mind exept I'll be doing my glue up without a form so I don't know how I'd get that nice arc on the back of the handle blank. Still working on that part of it.
Any idea what thickness the boo and lams are?
Dave - I understand that the less mass at the tips equals a faster bow, just what I've read here on the bench.
Chris, the overlays I'm planning on are real small and I sand back a bit of the tip so I'm not adding much weight. Plus I like the look. :bigsmyl: When I narrow the last 8" of each limb, it should lose more than enough weight to make up for the bit I add.
dave.
I gotcha Dave, I like skinny myself it looks killer.
I'm taking the width out a bit further on this bow than I normally would for stability more than anything, then taper down to 1/2" at the tips in the last 18" basically, but it will carry the 1 1/2" - 1 1/4" out past the fades. But then rarely does my original plan fully show through in the final product so I'll see how it goes. :knothead:
The one on the bottom I did and it took a lot of tinkering and I personally would like more R/D in it. The one on the top is from John Scrifes.
Semo I'll send you a PM when I get out to the shop and look up the info.
this is very interesting. What do you guys think is the shortest ntn you could get by w/ at a 26" draw? I love short bows. I have alot of bamboo around since I make bamboo fly rods. I may give this a try.
Thanks Shawn, any info you can send me on the lam thickness, boo thickness and draw wt. that you achieved with it would be very helpful in determining what I need to get the wt. I'm looking for. Right now it's just an educated guess at best. I do have an idea for doing the glue up that will give me that nice back curve to the handle/riser area. It's kinda tough to find a way to glue up a bow that has nodes sticking out on both sides.
Prairie Drifter - With a @26" draw length you can go down into the high 50's on overall length with a bow depending on design. I've got a Hornes Brush bow R/D longbow that's only 58" tip to tip and a tad shorter when strung, and my actual draw length is somewhere around 27-27.5"
I shoot that bow like it was custom made for me and I love it. I'm hoping this all bamboo bow will turn out to be one of those kind of bows as well.