For the last 4 years I have only built and shot longbows (reflex/deflex, hybred) and now I am thinking about getting into recurves. I would like to make my recurve center shot (opposed to my center cut longbows) so I think I will be going with 1.75" glass. I only own 2 recurves an old wing nighthawk and an old Bear grizzly neither of which I like the style of. I will be making my first recurve a takedown so that I am able to change the angle the limbs come off the riser during the testing stages and later make a one piece off the 3 piece design.
Now here are my design questions... I have seen recurves with very straight limbs close to the riser and pretty far along the mid limb with a dramatic curve at the tips, I have seen recurves with a fairly uniform curve from riser to tips and I have seen ones that look like an exponential graphs starting out with a slight curve and increasing more as you get towards the tips. What characteristics control of limb design control smoothness, and noise? Also tell me if this is correct it looks to me the shorter bows have a much more radical limb angel while the longer recurve limbs tend to come off at a smaller angle?
I would prefer a recurve 58-60" long with a 29" draw. With many of my one piece longbows I can make a very similar shooting bow from 62-66" on the same form, would this also be true with a one piece recurves or does the much more radical design of a recurve limit that?
I use .050" glass for longbows, what is the typical thickness of glass in recurves and what kind of tapers are used.? I got a free week coming up for spring break and I need a project ...
Thank you for all your help
I like about an 18" riser with the limb pads cut to 20 degrees but on the limbs I worked multiple forms before I decided to use the one that I use. You can get the plans from Binghams that will get you off to the right direction from what I hear. I have never bought those plans but I think they are pretty cheap. I like .050 glass with a wedge that is 8.25" my limb taper is .002
Lester, If you bow shoots anything like what you bow looks like I will be following your advice very closely. Thanks.
Wow that is a lot of info. I think you talked about some bows you didnt like. What type curve do you like? thats were you start.you dont need to make a t/d bow first I think its easer to build one pc bow and take angles from that bow to build t/d later because you like how your one pc shoots.Bingham has great plans(prints) you can see that some of there recurves are the same in t/d and one pc just like I wrote.Old Master Crafters has some prints also.Prints are good place to start.getting hold of a bow you like and copy it is done all the time.you can tweek anything you want when its on paper and make it your own.I am John from Old Master Crafters just so you all know.jgirardi002@att.net
rmorris I have one thing that I take great pride in with my bows and that is that they really are smooth and shoot great. I honestly believe it is all in riser lengths, angles of the pads, and the curve of the limbs. That is a great compliment and I thank you. johnny g is right though find something good about your bows that you like and incorporate it into what you are designing that is primarily how I came up with designs
So I went down to the local archery shop today and tried out a few different recurves to see what I liked. The best recurve I shot today was a one piece recurve with a 22" riser from fadeout to fadeout was 60" and the limb design looked like this.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/b4942ed0.jpg)
I think I am going to take the same approach I did while building my longbows and just draw out what "looks good" in my head and change things as I learn more about recurves. But please do not stop with the advice and helpful hints.
Alright, I got a little work done today on a recurve design and I would like to know what you all think or any changes you would recomend. It is a 60" recurve with an 18" riser.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/Recurve.jpg)
All I need to do now is print it out glue it to some corrian, make a template and then transfer that to LVL for a form. :archer2:
Looking good!
I can only see the pic as a black square and nothing else.? Bue--.
I like the 60" recurves as well. Good choice. There are so many good bows to copy or take notes from but I've been wanting to try duplicating a 1960 kodiak design for my first glass bow build.
Can't see the pick above either.
What you all don't like solid black bow pictures? Hummm can't figure out why this is happening on my phone but I will work on the problem when I get home ... When I log on to photobucket all looks good so I just don't know.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/RecurvePicture.jpg)
Alright lest hope this works...
Well, well. Now I am on a computer with Windows and can see the pic just fine. On my I Pad it was just a black square, computers :banghead:
The design looks good and with the string nocks that much in front of the handle you should have plenty of prestress in the limbs. The bows that I have made have a little more deflexed handles, but that is just me. Keep us posted on the progress. Bue--.
Bue, I dont think it had anything to do with you. I remade the picture and re uploaded it to photobucket and deleted the old picture from photobucket so I am not sure why that made it re appear and work when it should be gone...
Bue, I dont think it had anything to do with you. I remade the picture and re uploaded it to photobucket and deleted the old picture from photobucket so I am not sure why that made it re appear and work when it should be gone...
That should be a great performing bow. How much taper are you going to use in the limbs? Sixty inch is my favorite length in a recurve, can't do no better for everyday use and shooting. Question where to you buy your LVL in Aluquerque? I have looked for it from time to time with no luck and need to get started on a new form.
I am thinking I will be doing one .oo2 taper and one parallel with .050 glass and it will be 1.75" wide. I am clueless on what stack thickness I But if you have better ideas or suggestions please let me know.
Jess, I get the LVL from STOCK on Edith just North of Montano. They close at 4:30 so you got to get there early.
Looks like a Bob Lee riser with Bear limbs. Very nice design.
You can look at these charts to get a ball-park for stack thickness --> Bingham Draw Weight Charts (http://www.binghamprojects.com/Bow%20Draw%20Weight%20Chart.pdf)
Monte, thanks for reminding me about the Bingham Chart, I forgot all about that.
When I build longbows I start off with 1.5" glass and end up with a final width of 1.375". When building a recurve do you try to keep it 1.75" or do you take it down? I guess it depends on the design you are looking for and personal preference but just curious about what most people do.
Mine start at 1.75 and depending on which one I'm building end up at 1.60. I don't usually do a straight taper from the fades to the tips either.
Alright... I got a little bit of shop time in today so I started on the riser for this recurve I am planning on building. I am going to try an "I-beam" riser and I choose mesquite and bloodwood for the riser. This is what I got done today...
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/bfe7f9e0.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/928fc97e.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/c36b2e74.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/30ccc937.jpg)
I will post more as I get it done but I think this is going to be a slow build.
Alright I had to modify my lamination maker to go from 1.5" to 1.75" but I did get 12 blank laminations cut out of some bamboo flooring and I got my riser all squared up...
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/b48a2c11.jpg)
Alright I feel like I was getting ahead of myself on this build so I went ahead and finished up the design. I will take this PDF down to a print shop in the morning and get it printed out in full scale. The top object is profile of the limb that I will cut out and laminate and use as a guide for cutting out my limbs, the riser pattern will act as a template and the lower profile will be the pattern for my form.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/TG.jpg)
tell us alittle more about your lam maker.
looks interresting.
watching this build with interest
Just got to thinking... I use the air hose method and I am set up for 1.5" wide longbows. Has anyone had success in using the longbow hose for the wider recurve form? It is only 1/4" bigger so I don't think it should matter too much...
Alright, I made it back out to the shop today and got some more work done on this recurve.
I went down to the local print shop and got my plans printed out full size.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/e72728df.jpg)
I then cut out the shape for the form and cut a piece of corrian to size for my template.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/5883e7a0.jpg)
After I attached the template to the corrian, I then cut out the corrian with the band saw.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/64e1daeb.jpg)
I then did some finishing work on the corrian template with some sandpaper to make sure I have a nice flat surface where the limb will overlap the riser and also took out all the major imperfections .
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/f92a74e3.jpg)
I then transfered the template to the LVL and also cut it out on the band saw with about a 1/8" extra.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/5062348a.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/7756bb11.jpg)
I then used the router with a flush/ trim bit to match the form to the template.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/34469ffb.jpg).
I did not get the form finished , but here is where I left off. I plan on getting back to it Thursday.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/99a96334.jpg)
Looking good so far, but the suspense is killing us. How about taking a couple of weeks off from your studies so you can finish it. Bue--. ;) ;)
Looks great.
I've made a hand full of self bows, now I'm think of trying my hand at a FG recurve.
BTW
I'm also in New Mexico.
We aught to gather up a group and have a Pow Wow.
Alright I did some random work today on building my first recurve. I finished my bamboo .001/in taper sled for a 1.75" laminations.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/dcd643a4.jpg)
I fadiddled with my wedge maker to allow it to make 1.75" wide wedges.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/f3512a4d.jpg)
I also took that print out of the riser and taped it to my riser so I could start to finalize my riser design. I like how the back of the riser looked so I cut that out and I will be playing around the next few days to finalize the belly side of the riser.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/ee0a0e5a.jpg)
By the way this bow is my first recurve and sort of a test bow so I am attempting to use as much scrap wood as I can to make it. Currently the riser is mesquite and bloodwood with a bubinga overlay on the back of the riser and the wedges will be padauk. I am thinking bamboo and black glass for the limbs.
Looking great!keep us posted!
Can't go wrong with black glass and bubinga, great combination. Looks like a winner for sure.
Nice Ralph... I like the palm swell on the riser, looks real comfortable and a good sized sight window. I shoot longbows and can't get used to the massive risers on most 3pc curves. Yours looks like it will be lean and mean!!!
Looking good!
I really like to look of your riser, nice clean lines. Your attention to detail is amazing. Looking forward to seeing it all finished up....Dan
Alright, so I had some free time today to work on the riser... I now wish I would have called a few buddys over, drink some beer and play on the slackline.
I decided I would cut the riser shape out close to what it looked like in the previous pictures and after cutting the top portion out I realized that was a huge mistake! It only lift me just over 1.2" of thickness on the riser ( I am surprised I did not cut into the double threaded insert). Here are some pictures on how disproportional this riser now looks but I think I will be able to fix it with some luck...
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/08329299.jpg) . (http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/a0e3e28d.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/637b865e.jpg) . (http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/5c99039c.jpg)
I think I am going to sand it off to the black line I drew in the first picture and then glue on a few layers of 1/8" strips to get it back to operating thickness.
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/P2231681.jpg)
Not sure why I am forwarding this picture of the riser on my Jon Gharing built bow, but I hope that it may give you an idea for the build up of yours.
I once handed this bow to a fellow in a motorcycle shop, he looked at the contour of the riser and pointed out something about the design that made it special (wish I could remember what he said). When I asked him if he was an engineer he got a funny look on his face and asked me how I knew that. I replied that once before I handed a bow to a guy who immediately noticed the i-beam construction, and he turned out to be an engineer.
BTW the materials in this riser are macassar ebony and the stripe is padauk. The limbs are static tip , bamboo under clear glass.
Hope you find this useful or at least interesting.
DDave
Dave, that is a great looking riser! I dont know if that will help me salvage my riser but it does give me some great ideas for the final "ascetics" shaping. Thanks for the great picture.
Jon Gharing is a very talented bowyer and he made those risers with hand tools. I think I can appreciate why he no longer does it having done the limited shaping of my Beaver Creek blank with only hand tools just to see if I could do it (and to avoid the potential big screw ups with power tools).
Looking forward to seeing yours when it is finished. I especially like the fact you decided to use i-beam lamination which creates a very nice effect in the sight window.
Old Mr.Bear had some pretty good ideas in that regard.
These are a couple of 1963 Polars with bubinga and zebrawood.
DDave
I rotated the pics to be within the required width but when I post them they go back to the original which is too wide. Now I remember why I gave up posting pics on this site.
DDave
Aright , I started to fix this mess of a riser.. Ended up cutting it down some more and making each side the same.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/4441e334.jpg)
I then cut a bunch of 1/8" strips of jatoba and padauk to layer on the belly of the riser.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/cb21d1c5.jpg)
Now we will wait and see what ends up happening
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/cb527f91.jpg)
Going to look better than what you started with now!! Lemons to lemonade-lol
Trux, I was thinking the same thing. I am also thinking this may go into by little bag of tricks and be part of the regular design if it all works out. I will know more on Thursday when I can make it back out to the shop.
Very cool build-along.
Well, it just shows that a mistake can be turned into something positive and atractive, loking fine. Bue--.
Ralph, you not only fixed the problem, you made it better, IMO. really looking forward to seeing it completed....Dan
Here is an update... I think this riser and myself may end up getting along.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/351faea0.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/c6877e9b.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/a18c4f83.jpg)
Great save Ralph looks very comfortable!!!
Nice work Ralph, looking great.
Alright it was a productive Saturday so far. I am running out of stuff to do while everything is gluing up so I am here on my phone updating.
I got my form finished and got to gluing up the limbs.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/944bbce7.jpg)
I then mixed me glue in a plastic cup with some scrap wood chucked into a drill.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/8227c67b.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/065959c7.jpg)
I then got my first limb in the oven
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/407d4780.jpg)
After the first limb came out of the oven I glued on the overlays and started them cooking in my micro oven.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/8dc7eecd.jpg)
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/e341430d.jpg)
And this is where I sit till I can get back to the shop.
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/c4603ebd.jpg)
Great job rmorris. Love those fishhook limbs, they look awesome. I bet that baby rocks like hell.
----------
Andy
Well that was a fun build along ... I now would not recommend mesquite as the main riser wood on bow riser...
(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee465/buckskinbows/f6a52083.jpg)
OUCH!!!
Too bad after so much work.Do you think the break came because the I beam did not exstend through the shelf area. Bue--.
Good point, that could of been one of the reasons. My opinion is there was more material in the area where it failed as compared to my longbows so I dont it was a material size or design problem.The biggest contributing factors in my opinion is that the grain of the mesquite did not run completely parallel from each end of the riser. The grain had about a 15 degree slant from the belly of the riser running up towards the back of the bow and the break is fairly clean on that axis the grain is running. I should have checked out that piece of wood better before using it.
I dont think I have the skills to salvage this riser 2x, so I think I will be working on a new one soon...
Sorry to see that...happens to all of us unfortunetly. I agree with the I beam post and maybe some glass overlays on the back of the riser to help stiffen it up on the next one.
I was thinking the I beam looked mostly useless as well since most was cut out but I have no firsthand experience with such builds yet. The good news is you have a good set of limbs & the experience to do a better riser now. Thanks for the build along, hoping to see the finished product.
Have to agree with Brad. Had a riser or two break years back, began to use the left over glass as overlays on the back of the riser. No problems since. Too bad it was a great looking bow, but not a total loss just need a new riser.
Sorry to see the end of such a nice bow. I know the feeling all to well.
Well I was very angry when the riser snapped but with a day to cool off I am looking at it in a new light. This is my last semester of school and I was starting to get behind on some of my school work because I was spending too much time in the shop and not enough time on my school work. Now I can spend the next 2 weeks working on school with little distractions.I also has never had a bow fail before it ever shot an arrow and is a humbling experience that I think I also needed to get back into the mindset of why I make bows. I make bows because I love the woodworking and the challenges of designing and now I got a new challenge. On a $ standpoint I would much rather the riser fail than the limbs, I had very little $ in that riser and all the hardware is salvageable... so I am not going to let this get me down, I will start over and make improvements on what I have learned. Thanks again for all your support and look forward to the next attempt!
Good attitude! Here's a picture of some failed limbs that found an alternate use. Got to keep a positive attitude with this stuff. :knothead: :archer:
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o241/galnmax/Bowbird.jpg)
Galen, That is awesome!!! I was thinking of turning my broken riser into a handle for my home made beer tap refrigerator. I think I am going to try to salvage the limbs.
Man Ralph that bow was coming together, sorry buddy ... That riser turned into one heck of a teacher though. I know you'll nail the next one...
Ralph, sounds like you have your priorities right. As long as we learn from our mistakes,it makes us better bowyers. Keep up the good work, at school and the shop and good luck at both....Dan