Hi,
I have been wondering why I don't see many long 1-piece recurves commercially available anymore. Bear used to make lots of lengths, but now it seems that 60" is the longest bow that I commonly see at the sporting goods stores or in catalogs, unless you go to a longbow design. Maybe it's because the longer bows were for the target shooters and that market went to take-downs. I'm not sure, but I still like them.
I have just finished building a couple recurves using Bingham's plans. Their longest is also 60". These are great shooting bows, but I am tall and have a long draw and I really like the pull of the longer bows that I have tried. In fact, I have been shooting a 66"/44# Bearcat in a trad 3D league this winter and it is working really well for me. So, I am thinking about what it would take to alter the plans to make a longer bow, like maybe a 64" version.
What I am contemplating is how to scale the design. Do I add length to the limbs, the riser, or some of both? What are the effects of these options?
I have a few bows that I measured to see how they are laid out. I measured the limb from tips to fadeout along the belly. I measured the riser from fade to fade in a straight line along the side of the riser. I know these are not exact measurement as it's hard to see where the fade ends and not all string grooves are in the same location, but its close enough. I wish I had a bigger sample size.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/size_chart1.jpg)
It appears that the Tigercat adds one inch to each limb to get its 62" size, but the other bows seem to have added length mostly to the riser, creating room for a longer sight window and more mass. I was surprised how short the limbs were on the Tamerlane. It is such a smooth bow to draw and a pleasure to shoot. I wish they had made one at 50# or so.
Since I will have to spend time and $$ to build a new press to test this out, I would like to decide which way to go. I could just find a source for a 4" longer riser, leaving the limb design alone, or I could try to put 2" more into the riser and 1" into each limb.
Has anyone built a longer recurve and care to comment on it? Anyone know about these ratios from recurve bow theary and how they effect performance?
A pre-thanks to all.
I like short risers with long limbs. My risers are 15" with 29-30" limbs. Amo is 64". Fast smooth, not stacking. Tony
Wookiewebster, at one time the Old Master Crafter used to offer one piece blueprints with a longer length bow 64" if memory serves me correctly. Have you thought of tracing and reproducing the Bear that you currently have. Should you try to extend the Bingham I would increase the length of the riser some. The trick is how much "some" is enough without being to much. Good luck on your project and keep us informend.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sharp Shooter:
I like short risers with long limbs. My risers are 15" with 29-30" limbs. Amo is 64". Fast smooth, not stacking. Tony
Hey SS, do you have a picture of a bow with these specs that you can post? I would like to see one.
Thanks,
Wookie
My bows are takedowns, maybe this will give you some ideas. Tony
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa473/SharpShooter6/DropTine%20Custom%20Bows/006-1-1.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa473/SharpShooter6/DropTine%20Custom%20Bows/bow015.jpg)
Very nice bow, SS. Thanks for posting it.
I do see longer length take-downs around. In fact, I think it's the only way to get a commecial recurve over 60". With that setup, I guess one could build whatever size, style, and strength of limb wanted. It would be a great platform to test various limb designs.
Bingham has plans for a 68" one piece recurve. Bue--.
Do you have a link to that?
For one-piece I see 68" Longbow, 64" R/D Longbow, 62" Hybrid, 58 & 60" Recurve.
I don't see it in the printed catalog either.
I bought that blueprint from Bingham years ago, they called it 68" target bow. Perhaps they do not have it and more. Bue--.
Thanks Bue. I will contact them to see if they still have it available.
OK, I got email back from Elmont Bingham. They don't have that plan anymore. Bue, do you have a copy still that I could look at?
I am still just doing research for this design. I can adapt other plans to my size, I think.
The drawing/plan is on a piece of paper 38"x25" large so I do not see how I can be able to show it to you, sorry. Bue--.
:)
In 2009 I built a 68" fiberglass laminated recurve one piece bow with maple core wood. I modified "Binghams" plans because, being a target archer, I desired a longer bow. I built a recurve, 2" x 68" bow form using his plans. It came out very well. The riser is 29" fade out to fade out. And each limb is 19 1/2 " from string nock to fade out. The total core thickness near the end of the fade out is 0.250 thousandth's of an inch. The bow turned out at 41# at 28" draw length. The brace height is 8 1/2" using a dacron string that has 12 strands, that is turned 7 revolutions in the ccw direction.
I hope this will be some help to you. John
@MCB/John
Thanks a lot for that info. That is very helpful data for me. I hoped that someone out there had tried this out, and your build is a great example. The measurements sound just right for that size, and I like the 2" limbs. ANy pictures? :) I am not sure if I am going to go quite that long (yet), but I am for sure going to build a long one (64-66").
I have some old Bingham plans for a 68" target bow coming, so I can compare them to the current 60" plans, especially the limb shape. I have been thinking of how to build a riser that long, since no one really offers a 2" thick riser block > 22". I think I may go with an I-beam configuration with maple + something else in the middle. I found some nicely figured maple locally. I wonder if walnut would look good in the middle? If I do go the i-beam route, I wonder if it will be strong enough or if I should put some glass, phenolic, or carbon lines though it, too.
Here are some really nice 68" bows that were built by John (Mt. Clemens Bowyer) from modified Bingham plans and referenced in his earlier post. I am posting these images for him and include his comments at the bottom.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/bow123.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/12345678.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/bow7890.jpg)
" The risers on the first 3 from the left side, is African Zebra Wood. They are natural, with only lacquer applied. The one on the far right, is made from Red Oak that I purchased from "Lumberjack". I stained it with "Zars" modern walnut. All have Hard Rock Maple lamination's and fiberglass that was purchased from "Bingham Projects" All four of them I sprayed with "Deft" clear wood finish. Three of them have gloss, and the fourth, which is on the right, has satin. This lacquer was purchased from "Lowe's".
All of them are shooting very well, and I have probably shot over a thousand arrows with the white one since it was built.
In the future, I plan on building different size forms, and many types of bows. I would also like to build medieval crossbows,and try my hand at building self bows.
John--------Chesterfield Twp, Michigan."
Monte
Thank you for installing the pictures for me on the forum.
I am sure others would have the same questions initiated by you. John
I got a copy of the old Bingham 68" target bow designs from a TG member. They even have the old Bingham address on them. It was cool to study them for a while and compare against the current designs. I took some shots of the 60" patterns laying next to them. I noticed that the lower half of the riser template for the 60" bow has changed a bit. It looks like they moved the grip angle down a bit more in the current version (slants toward the lower limb more quickly), maybe to make it more comfortable.
The 68" pattern is basically the 60" limb design with a longer riser (30"). However, as you can see in the lower photo, the angle of the fades is different as well. It is closer to angle of the Tamerlane and other target bows I have seen. Also, there is a wider sight window and rest/shelf. Those details are all personal pref and easily changed to have more/less wood in the riser. Still, I think this will make putting a 64-66" design together a lot easier.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0235.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0234.jpg)
This is off-topic, but I got a laugh out of this when I was at the woodworkers shop (Timberline) the other day.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/IMAG0233.jpg)
OK, I have some updates on my work in this area. After getting a lot of info on 64"- 69" recurve designs, I began making a plan to build one. I decided to start with a 64" bow. I made a plan for a press by modifying the Bingham 60" plan to handle a longer riser and adding some minor changes from some other designs. It's not too difficult, but does require all the work that goes into building a new press.
I also decided to build my own hardware for this press. The Bingham product costs about $25/set (plus S/H & taxes) and 2 sets are required. It cost me about $30 to make these with stuff from the local hardware store. After the cutting, drilling, heating, bending, welding, and grinding, there will be an hour or two invested in production, so you will have to decide if it's worth it or not.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Longbow1/IMAG0210.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0260.jpg)
Because I will have to make my own riser block for a longer bow, I decided to use what I could find locally for my first bow. I think it will be expensive to buy a 2x3x26" block of exotic wood. Plus, I have had a hard time finding a block that size. It seems that thinner wood is easier to find.
At a local place, I got a nice piece of walnut with some figure in it. I think its beautiful.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0243.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0244.jpg)
I had a piece of maple that I decided to sandwich in the middle.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0245.jpg)
I glued up the block with smooth-on, then trued it up and cut the initial shape.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0252.jpg)
Then I added a couple strips of black phenolic with a thin piece of Bocote in the middle.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0259.jpg)
This is the riser shape I am thinking about doing.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0257.jpg)
I finally got it in the press and into the oven.
I decided to go with black glass on the back and clear glass on the belly, with birdseye maple visible. All the rest of the core lams are hard maple. I just hope it comes out looking nice.
I want to throw out a "thank you" to KennyM for the lams and other info and also others for suggestions, info, and help on this project. This forum has some very helpful people and I appreciate the kindness to a newcomer.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0258.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0261.jpg)
Keep it going, it looks like it is turning out great, i have been building 64" curvs lately and i really like the longer bows.
It's looking really nice. Your wood combo works well together, I'm looking forward to seeing that birdseye maple.
-Jay
With that big riser it should feel good in hand at shot!!
OK, good weather on the weekend, so I didn't get a lot done because I was working in the yard, etc. But I did get some done in the evenings.
I put my "beater" blade on the bandsaw to cut the limbs and got them roughed out. Bingham's says that a 4 TPI, skip toothed, neutral rake blade will last the longest, even though it will smoke and squeal a bit. So I keep one blade just for this chore, which keeps my other blades sharper for wood.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0263.jpg)
I also got the front profile and grip area roughed out.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0275.jpg)
After smoothing out the front profile with a sanding drum, I glued on some maple and walnut detail strips. This is where I learned just how thin wood needs to be to bend correctly. The phenolic strips, though thicker, bend easily compared to this wood. But I wanted to try using wood accents this time, so I messed around until I got it right.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0276.jpg)
Next, I took a piece that was cut from the front profile and glued it on to help build up the heel of the grip.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0279.jpg)
After some cleanup:
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0278.jpg)
I also cut out the sight window and did a bit of shaping on the drum sander. I still need to take more wood/weight off, but it's starting to feel comfortable when gripped.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0281.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0280.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0285.jpg)
dude looks nice good job.
Looking good! Very classic.
Looking really nice!!
-Jay
Monte, that is gonna be cool! Let us know how she shoots!!
A real classic, lookin good. Bue--.
Love that old style recurve look. Nice Work
Well, I guess it's finally time to put some finality to this build, eh? I got a finish on it and took it out in the sun for some pictures.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0307.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0309.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0308.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0314.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0310.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0313.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0318.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0317.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0306.jpg)
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz335/wookiewebster/Archery/Recurve3/IMAG0321.jpg)
Here are the stats for this bow:
- target stats: 64", 45# @ 28", 2" wide
- achieved stats: 65", 53# @ 28", (58# @30") 205fps with a 378gr arrow (at my 30" draw)
- .040" ULS black glass for the back
- .043" ULS clear glass for the belly
- .070" hard maple parallel lam for back
- .100" birdseye maple tapered lams for belly (taper: .001/1") (visible thru glass)
- riser: 2 x 3 x 26", walnut with maple i-beam
- stack height: .253"
This bow is fun to shoot. I like the feel and dimensions of this bow a lot more than the 58"-60" bows of the same style. This one draws and shoots very smoothly and it sure puts some speed on a shaft. I still need to take it to the range and chrono the speed, so I will add that data when I get it. I can tell that it will be over 200 pfs for sure. The riser is quite dead in the hand and comfortable to shoot. I'm sure the heavier riser has something to do with that. When I started shooting, it was grouping well after just a few shots, so it has a natural feel for me.
I think I need to try another one that hits closer to my target stats of 45# or less, so I think I will try .010" less stack height next time and see how it comes out. One thing about this style of bow, compared to the r/d longbow that I built last, is that it takes longer to shape the large riser section to remove weight and slim it down for fit. It also takes more care to avoid and remove limb twist issues. Still, it is a great design to shoot, especially now that I have a longer version that fits me better. I also like the wider limbs when showing fancy wood. :)
I know there are some flaws from some mistakes that I made, so try to ignore those. I will do better from all the "learning" I did this time. It was my first attempt at laminating a riser, using clear glass, etc. and I didn't think far enough ahead on a couple steps. Nothing to effect function, just looks.
All the pictures and write-up for this bow are in my blog. (http://wookieswords.blogspot.com/2012/03/recurve-build-3-64-i-beam.html)
Happy Easter!
Wow! what a great looking recurve. I hope she shoots as good as she looks.
Nice looking bow bet is very smooth judging from the string angle. Great job.
I love that bow! You did an awesome job.
Beautiful bow! I like the profile a lot.
Just found this thread...VERY NICE! Excellent work!
Oh, that takes me back to the 60's!