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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Roy from Pa on February 03, 2012, 06:47:00 PM

Title: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 03, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
Going to do my first rawhide backing tomorrow on a friends hickory backed osage bow. He got the rawhide from three rivers. Anyone care to give me the run down on how it should be done from start to finish? Glue type, soak in water, wrapping, drying time, etc.. Thanks, Roy
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Art B on February 03, 2012, 07:30:00 PM
Try this Roy:

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000036
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 03, 2012, 07:53:00 PM
Im not sure what Arthur's link says. Here is my tried and true recipe Roybert. I clamp both ends of the strips on my bench and sand the hair side with 580 grit until I like the thickness. Then soak it in warm water for 20-30 minutes max. Apply TBIII to the back. I lighty wring water out of my strips then lay the thicker end on my handles center and the thinner end to the tips, do the same for the other limb but overlap 2" at the center. Smooth it down gently so you dont sqeeze all the glue out. I clamp both ends and the center with spring clamps then gently wrap and ace bandage around it being sure the egdes stay curled down. Let it sit for two hours and gently take the wraps off. Let it sit for 24 hours and PRESTO you have flawless rawhide backed bow.....Get to it ol' man!
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 03, 2012, 09:20:00 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Diamondback59 on February 03, 2012, 09:24:00 PM
roy as pearly say s sames i do file ur edges to move excesses brock
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: mwosborn on February 03, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
Pearl - do you "pre-fit" the strips and cut them to size so they only cover the back of the bow?  Or does it hang over the edges on the sides a bit?  If so, then do you trim the excess off after it dries?  I have never done this before and wanting to give it a try with a hide that I just dried out.  Thanks!

I checked out the link Art listed but the pics won't show up for me.   :banghead:
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Stiks-n-Strings on February 04, 2012, 02:15:00 AM
Just let it hang over the edges and trim it with a rasp or file after it dries Mitch
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Osagetree on February 04, 2012, 05:17:00 AM
Why hide on a HBO?
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 04, 2012, 06:33:00 AM
Because the grain on the hickory backing scares me. It has some grain swirls on the edge. Do you guys suggest putting rawhide on it?

 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/IMG_6973.jpg)
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Art B on February 04, 2012, 07:27:00 AM
Sorry Roy, but I personally wouldn't have used that piece for a backing. Good luck!
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 04, 2012, 07:29:00 AM
Ya I know Art, but it's what the guy brought with him. Maybe I should grind it off and get a better piece.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Art B on February 04, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
Good hickory backing is hard to come for most of us Roy. I have to order the stuff myself and 'bout half is useless when I get. Even the good looking straight grained stuff. You just got to do a bend/break test to know what you're dealing with. So, got any scrapes laying around to do a test on? If so, and the test piece bends and not snaps, give that backing a try. But if the test piece snaps right now, nothing you can do will save that backing.

But your odds do go up if you can get the bow bending and then rawhide back it. Try a layer of nylon straping tape as a temporary backing and see how far she'll go.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 04, 2012, 07:42:00 AM
It would probably hold, but why chance it. I woudl put rawhide over it and then skins. He will never know its there. Thin it down good.

Osborn I leave my strips 2" wide and trim the edges with an Exacto knife, then a sanding block with 60 grit then 220 grit to make them appear seamless. I do skins the exact same way minus the ace wraps.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 04, 2012, 07:56:00 AM
Whats this bend/break test Art? Just bend it into a U?
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Art B on February 04, 2012, 07:59:00 AM
Rip up a 1/4" scrap piece and bend Roy. If it does bend into a U then that's what you want. But if it just breaks out right then I wouldn't use it for backing myself.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 04, 2012, 08:00:00 AM
That will answer the overall health of the backer, but it wont tell you boo about that swirl area holding.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 04, 2012, 08:01:00 AM
Ok, thanks ole boy:)
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Art B on February 04, 2012, 08:10:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by PEARL DRUMS:
That will answer the overall health of the backer, but it wont tell you boo about that swirl area holding.
Experience is the best teacher Pearly  :biglaugh:  !
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 04, 2012, 08:14:00 AM
If my hard headed self didnt find that out the hard way already!

I have a HBO with a swirl much like that, its still good. I have a HBH with a swirl just like that and it lifted. I wrapped it and it never moved again. Roll the dice Roybert Redford! Nah...just put some rawhide on here. Im really starting to fall in love with rawhide. I see now why the odl timers rawhide backed almost every bow, why not?
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 04, 2012, 08:17:00 AM
This guy lost his first BBO, I don't want to see him lose his second try. I'm leaning towards grinding the backing off and getting a better piece.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Bowjunkie on February 04, 2012, 08:31:00 AM
Backing a bow with rawhide (http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SELFBOWS/gluing_backing.CFM)  

Here Roy. Here's the method I use... roughly anyways. This method works really slick and sounds a lot more involved than it is. Once you do it once, you'll have the hang of it and it'll be no big deal.

I didn't make the veneer hammer, just used whatever I found laying around to act as a glue squeegie. I also went and got a little rubber roller in the paint section of the local dept. store.

Use hide glue. Don't 'soak' the rawhide. The more you soak it and swell it, the more it will shrink as it dries which can cause problems... all unnecessarily. If it's properly thinned, just moisten it, or DIP it in water then set it on the bench to relax, don't even leave it in the water for a single minute. You only want it 'relaxed', damp and barely pliable, not fully rehydrated/bloated.

If you follow these instructions, there will be no need to wrap it whatsoever. Applying and wrapping fully hydrated, bloated, slippery rawhide on glue can be a frustrating mess and you can't see under the wrap to even know if it hasn't slid and is still on there right as it dries. You just kinda 'hope' it is.

With this method, it's all right there in the open where you can see it the entire time, you work sections from handle to limb tip, melting the hide glue with the iron and using the squeegie or roller to gently push out the excess. When you get to the end of the limb, it's over, done, let it dry, there is no wrapping. There is no shrinking. There is no curling up on the sides which can lift it off the back.

If you have any questions, holler.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: 2treks on February 04, 2012, 08:43:00 AM
Bowjunkie, What kind of hide glue do you use and where do you get it? Do you make it?

Thanks,

CTT
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: mwosborn on February 04, 2012, 11:56:00 AM
Thanks Pearl and Stiks - going to give it a go.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Bowjunkie on February 06, 2012, 05:24:00 AM
Two Tracks, I use only real, dehydrated hide glue, that you must reconstitute in water, not the liquid stuff. You can get it from most traditional archery suppliers or many places online.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: 2treks on February 08, 2012, 12:21:00 PM
Thanks Jeff, Thats what I have,just never used it.


CTT
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: razorback on February 08, 2012, 12:46:00 PM
How thin do you guys make your raw hide.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: monterey on February 08, 2012, 12:58:00 PM
I'd pass on the rawhide and go with some other backing.  Admittedly, I'm no expert on rawhide backs, having only done three, but they seemed to slow the bows down quite a bit.  I used a very thin goat skin from Tandy.

Just my less than .02 cents on it.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2012, 01:16:00 PM
I've never noticed and loss of cast after backing a bow with deer rawhide. The Trade Bow I,m making has a deer rawhide backing and it shoots very well.
 About like heavy brown paper, Razorback.
Title: Re: Rawhide Backing??????????
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 08, 2012, 01:20:00 PM
My little rawhide backed recurve might argue that with you Monterey! I will try to keep her on the rack so she doesnt see this post!