Ok - I am new to this self bow building - so be kind. Constructive criticism welcome but be kind - my confidence is shaky at best right now.
Example - you suck at tillering is not kind. :smileystooges:
Green ash stave - cut last March - rough cut and drying since. Began working it this week. Thought the floor tillering looked ok. Put on the long string and tillered using a gizmo to 7 inches. Was looking ok to me.
Made a string and braced her up on the short string to just over 7 inches and this is what it looks like.
I just don't know enough to make an accurate diagnosis. Is there a hinge on the left limb? Right limb just way too stiff? Is there any hope!!!! :dunno:
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/help006.jpg)
Thanks for the help.
Mitch
Looks pretty good if thats your first one,
From my perspective the right limb is still stiff,
I would be working the middle third and the inner third on the right limb.
If those are two inch squares on your board it looks like the right limb can move about that much(2")to catch up with the left.
Hopefully the experts will be along shortly to confirm your work.
Good Hunting
Thanks Mike -
Not my first one - but my first 68" one. I made a shorter one for practice on a 46" piece of ash that didn't turn out too bad - just too short and light for me.
Yep they are 2" squares. How much would you scrape to get the right limb to move 2"? Would you worry about countin scrapes or just scrape a while and then check?
What Mike said, weaken the right limb. Don't worry, my first few bow's looked just like yours:)
You are developing a hinge on the left limb you should correct before stressing it too much. It looks to be between the 2nd and 4th vert line. Get the wood out past that area bending more then scrape the right limb until it bends the same. The right limb looks to be stiff at mid limb mostly.
And make yourself a gizmo.
Mitch, you need to provide us with an unbraced side and back profile pic to accurately assess your tiller.
What you have there is not uncommon when going from a long string to a short string. Happened to me this morning. I shorten my grip up on the limb that wasn't bending nearly enough and gave it a couple extra pulls. That did even things up somewhat but I still had to do a little more scraping to even the tiller out........Art
QuoteOriginally posted by KellyG:
And make yourself a gizmo.
+1 on the gizmo! Right limb too stiff, make a gizmo then use it before going any further, you'll thank us for it later.
Think he said he used a gizmo on the long string, keep using it though to help get them even.
What Pat said about the hinge, work it out then worry about the right limb. Get us some drawn pics, once you have worked on the hinged area. Don't stress it any more than you need to to find out if it is gone.
That doesn't look like a hinge to me. More like a natural kink in the wood. Without an unbraced side pic we're all guessing really....Art
Sorry he did say he gizmoed it. I missed it the first pass.
Thanks guys - I really appreciate the help.
Now to show a bit more ignorance:
Art - I am not 100% sure on what you need for pics (unbraced side and back profile pic) so I added a few...maybe these will help you see whats going on. Thanks again!
side view unbraced:
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/005.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/001-1.jpg)
Back:
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/002.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/003.jpg)
Handle:
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/004.jpg)
Few others:
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/006.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/007.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/008.jpg)
Pics helped a lot Mitch. Looks like that natural deflex right out of the handle gave you a running start on your lopsided tiller. You could heat bend that area straight to even your tiller back up if you a mind to. Looks like you need to do some heat straightening anyhow.
Since you're using a parallel limb design, you need to match the "BRACED PROFILE" to that. That means the limbs greater bend will be mid-limb or elliptical shaped. Try to keep from mid-limb to tips fairly stiff.....Art
that "deflex" could be set from overstressing the wood too early on. 7" brace is pretty high for a hinge.
Took Art's suggestion and heated the left limb up to straighten it up a bit. I then did a bit of scrapin on the left limb at mid limb past the "kink". Then did some scrapin on the right mid limb to weaken it up a bit.
Here is what it is lookin like now. Art - I just don't know enough yet to know for sure what you mean when you said - "you need to match the Braced Profile". Are you saying that a straight limbed bow will do most of its bending in the midlimb area? The tips will be straight with no bending?
If that is the case, the gizmo doesn't really help me much, does it?
Sorry for the ignorance but learning as I go. Appreciate all your help!!!
Whatever the case, I think it is looking better - I think Art knows what he is talking about!
Mitch
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/002-1.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/001-2.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/003-1.jpg)
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/004-1.jpg)
Looking much better but both limbs look slightly stiff mid limb.
Looking good now. Just listen to the gizmo and tiller her out. Post pics often as you go so others can keep you on the right track. I agree with sportHunter work from mid limb out now, but I bet the gizmo shows you that. Good luck.
Adjust your gizmo to the bend of the left limb and use the same setting for the right limb. This will help get them bending evenly.
Overall your tillering looks pretty good just need a little more wood off the right limb.
That parallel limb design that your're using reguires greater bending mid-limb for best efficiency Mitch. And to help hold down limb vibrations, which can lead to hand shock and some arrow speed loss, try and keep the tips fairly stiff.
As Eric mentioned, you need to catch up your right limb. From there, any weight reduction should be done mid-limb to obtain that needed elliptical limb shape (then your braced profile will match your chosen limb design for best efficiency)........Art
Thanks for the suggestions guys - will do as Eric/Art suggest. Will have to wait - got to get to bed early tonight. My cousin who lives in the southern part of the State lined up some places for me to come cut some osage early in the morning. Almost as exciting as the night before opening day of bow season!!
Mitch
Ya done good bud....
These guys are great....
Yep they are - can take one look at some pics and give ya good advice!
Finally took a break from hunting and got back to this bow this past week. Really want to do some late season doe hunting with this bow! This is my 3rd bow - first one was a kids bow - the second one I missed weight by a ton and ended up with major set (dried it in attic). Think I might be able to hunt with this 3rd one!
I tillered as suggested (the best I could) and then quit when I got to 47# at about 27inches. I shot it for a few days and it shot ok - bit of hand shock (but that is compared to my RER recurve). It shot 3555 GT with 135 zwickeys pretty well and I was grouping nicely at 17 yards.
After putting some stain on it to tone down the white color I noticed small "stress lines" in a couple of spots on the limbs - one on the belly and one on the back - different limbs.
A couple of questions for anyone that has the time to reply...
What are these stress lines? - don't know what they are and don't know what caused them. They are not cracks - but the stain really highlighted them.
Should I be concerned about them? They don't appear to be getting any worse and I have shot quite a bit.
The one limb has taken on some set but appears to come back after resting for a while. Will this get worse the more I shoot it - meaning the bow won't last long?
Couple of pics...
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/Bow112211003.jpg)
Bottom Limb - belly
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/DeadDeerSelfbow007.jpg)
Top Limb - back
(http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/mosborn1007/DeadDeerSelfbow006.jpg)
Thanks for your help guys! I am getting really excited to shoot a deer with a bow I made from a tree I cut down myself!
Mitch
Nice work Mitch. Those cracks are called crysals - check out the vocab post at the top of this forum. This bow may break eventually but I would use it to hunt and see. Ash is very tough and it may hold up.
Two "rules" to avoid crysals, set and other damage while tillering: Never pull past final draw weight and never pull past a visible tillering flaw. The Catch 22 is that "visible" is a learned skill that only comes with practice.
You done real good on that bow. Good Hunting!
Shaun is correct, belly chrysal/fret may only cause addition set and hold up for quite a spell. But that crack on the back of the upper limb is another story. It's sure to fail soon IMO.
Just my personal opinion here, but I think much of your difficulty is due more to using "unseasoned wood" more so than your bow building skills. Fresh but "dried wood" I've noticed presents more problems than well seasoned wood when it comes to the bow's limb fretting.
Thanks for the help guys! I really appreciate it. Thanks to the help I've gotten on here I am gradually getting better. Eventually will make a good one I hope. Think I will shoot this one until it breaks just to see how long it lasts and as of now, it seems to be shooting pretty well.
Art - you are right in that the wood was not truly seasoned. It was cut last spring, split into staves and then I started working on them. Tried drying some in the attic which resulted in a terrible set. This current one was rough cut out and drying in the house until August when I started tillering it - better than the attic one.
Good news is, I cut a bunch (ash, elm, hackberry, serviceberry, mulberry, and osage) and it is all drying now - only a matter of time until it is seasoned.
Thanks again.
Mitch