A friend of mine and I have decided to work together to build some glass bows. We have mostly done hickory backed Ipe bow.
We will post pics, if you have any suggestions or tips, let us know!!
We are on a budget, so we are looking for the cheapest solution whenever possible.
We started with having Swissbow's longbow design provided online on their website (swissbow.com)(thanks Andres!) printed by a blueprint printing shop.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/283096_10150252222308317_513423316_7606131_2807779_n.jpg)
We glued the print of the blow on a piece of thin plywood. We followed Kennym's instruction for routering a form out of plywood. (http://www.kennyscustomarchery.com/Bow_forms.html)
We bought a sheet of 3/4" plywood, cut it in half and glued it together to get the 1.5" form.
The router method was easy and fairly quick. The form looks good.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/251546_10150252222588317_513423316_7606137_803557_n.jpg)
For the firehose, we have got hold of some old hose and we are looking at building the end plugs for it.
We have already ordered the lams from Rodney Wright at Wright Archery (http://www.wrightarchery.com)
More to come.
Just a little caution. Two 3/4 inch plywood does NOT make 1 1/2 inch.
why?
3/4 = 0.75
and 0.75 * 2 = 1.5
am i wrong?
what deathmaster is saying is 3/4 plywood usually runs shy of 3/4. they usually run about 1/32 (sometimes more) shy of what they call it.
you might want to check and make sure the plywood is a full 3/4.
Can anybody explain the router method for making forms (or put a link)?
thanks
Look up he posted a link. Just copy and past from Matts first post.
Thank you missile, I should read more slowly.
I also figured that way of making a form but I can't find that kind of router bit around here (bit + bearing).
Does anybody know where can I find such a bit, or should I buy the two pieces separately?
I would suggest that you check and double check that the "old fire hose" and your plugs don't leak. Otherwise looking good, keep us informed with, plenty of pics.
Turmoiler,
many online companies carry them. Try Rockler, Woodline, etc...
I strongly suggest using a powerful router and the 1/2" shank over the 1/4" shank bit. Oh, yes, make sure it is SHARP.
:thumbsup:
Good Points guys.
DEATHMASTER, you are completely right. Just measured the form and it is 1/16th short of 1.5". Any suggestions for materials to make up that 1/16"? We plan on lining the form with some material, probably aluminium.
jess stuart, very good point. We build the air hose system and will be testing it thoroughly. We used pvc end plugs and pipe clamps. On one end, we drilled a hole and put in a presta valva glue in with an automotive epoxy. So far the hose holds 60 psi for 6 hours, but further testing will be needed.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3239.jpg)
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3240.jpg)
For the riser, we decided on a simple stack of woods we already had in the shop : purple heart, wenge and pau amarelo.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/281831_10150252222703317_513423316_7606139_3329149_n.jpg)
More to come,
Matt & Tycho
You might wanna check with heat in the press for the prescribed time. Heat does stuff!
I don't recommend the plastic ends!! I used them on my first hose and the heat made them soft and they lost pressure! A farm supply store or fire supply store will have metal inserts and caps. Drill and tap one end and install a schrader valve and you are set.
I don't recommend the plastic ends!! I used them on my first hose and the heat made them soft and they lost pressure! A farm supply store or fire supply store will have metal inserts and caps. Drill and tap one end and install a schrader valve and you are set.
I used PVC ends in my hose but after having one of them blow out on a test run I had to make a change. I pushed the plug in the hose enough to where I could touch the hose together, punched holes through both and put bolts through the holes and used big washers and bolted the hose together so there is absolutly no way it can blow out. I used hose clamps so it would seal up air tight. Its worked for a whole now and yeah a metel plug would be a lot easier lolol
matt, i would put that hose in the oven in the form and put more psi on it than you will ever need when glueing up your bow.
i got some of the best looking coco lams from kennym about a month ago and while the bow was in the oven my end cap blew off my hose.... air bubble everywhere.... i think the heat cause the rubber to soften and the cap came off. i put 100 psi on it checking for leaks before i put it in the oven. no leaks before the heat, but one big one after.
Thanks Guys. After all the concern for the homemade end plugs, we will be extensively testing them in the heat box. We are also looking at finding some metal plugs. This is probably the most reasonable solution, since it would be aweful to loose a bow's worth of materials for have saved 20 or 30 $. That being said, we have them build, so we will test them thoroughly, and share the results. More to come on this when the heat box is done.
We started work on the risers. Since we don't have a good bandsaw (we do have one, an old handmedown that can barely cut a straight line, given to us by a skilled contractor, who, to the best of his abilities, could not get it to cut straight...), we needed a way to a precision cut. We really liked kennym's router method that we learned while making the form (thanks Kenny!), so we decided to modify it to make the risers.
We made a pattern of the riser in thin plywood and used hotglue to temporarily glue it to the riser blocks. we put our router into its table with the pattern bit. We used this technique to do the sides and the bottom. When the fades got thin, we glued on a thicker piece to protect them.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3256.jpg)
Routering the hard woods was difficult. There was some chattering, but overall it worked well...
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3257.jpg)
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3258.jpg)
The first riser we did went smoothly. A couple point we discovered you must follow.
Always test the wood first to find the direction it "likes" to be routered. It isn't always obvious just by looking at the grain. Also, always have the piece of wood moving in the same direction as the router is turning so as to not force the wood into the turning blades.
We did the second riser and ran into a problem... Everything was going smoothly until the end when the pink arariba just exploded. It is a pretty brittle wood and I guess there was something funny going on in that spot.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3261.jpg)
We will have to cut off the damaged part and glue some more wood on... No big deal. I think we will take the opportunity to slice off some of the arariba and top it off with more wenge. That way the two bows we make wont be identical...
More to come,
Matt & Tycho
whats the length gonna be of this bad boy?
That is going to be some good looking wood combo.
Matt & Tycho, you guys are doing some nice work there. One thing you wrote, however, raised a bit of a red flag when I read it. It can be dangerous to feed wood into a router bit in the same diection as the bit is turning. I know it might seem like the best way to do things but the router bit could grab the workpiece and pull it forward out of your control. It's a good way to damage your work and maybe your fingers. I'll admit that there are times when you may have to work this way. If I might make a suggestion, it would help make things a bit more safe if you attached a temporary handle made from scrap wood to your workpiece. That way if something were to go wrong at least your hands would be farther from the bit. There is also a device sold that clamps onto small workpieces to act as a handle. If I'm not mistaken I've seen it at Lee Valley Tools and possibly Busy Bee Tools. Also, use the bandsaw or a handsaw to remove as much wood as you can before going to the router, and take several light passes rather than digging in to remove all the waste in one go.
I'm not trying to be a know it all. I'm speaking from 40 years of woodworking experience and making mistakes as well as seeing others make mistakes. Nothing you will ever build is worth making contact with moving machinery.
Keep up the good work.
Dave. :thumbsup:
Get yourself a drum sander before you sling a big chunk of wood and screw up yourself or someone else. If you got to use the router take very-very light passes.
turmoiler, I used a router table and a #7807 bit to build a couple of forms. Binghams Projects sells some very nice aluminum plugs only $18 with clamps. http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_flush.html
Schmidtster : The length of the bow is going to be 66".
We used the excel table provided by swissbow on their website (available in the download section "weight table glass longbow".)
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/excelscreenshot.png)
We are aiming at a final bow weight of 48 pounds, but at Andres Stockli's recommendation, "For my personal bows I tend to go like ten pounds heavier than the chart says. So I can make the limbs" (from an email in which he kindly responded to a few question we had)
So we are building the bow at 55 pounds on the chart and hoping to shave that down to 48 pounds.
We are going with 4 lams, outer lams 0.085" parallels and inner lams 0.085" 0.001 tapered. From Andres : "I mostly use a total taper of 0.002 - 0.004 and I distribute it on the core lams. Choose the glass thickness in a way that you get a wood to glass ratio somewhere between 1:4 and 1:5. After that you can start to distribute the lam thickness according the points I mentioned above and you'll be fine"
KellyG : Thanks! We have experimented with this sort of wood combo for our HBI bows. If you are interested, I can perhaps post some pictures of these.
wood carver 2 : We have to agree with you now. If the last pass didn't rip the wood apart, we would not have learned... I think your idea of a handle is a good one. We could easily temporarily glue on a handle to make it safe. Anyhow, we won't be using the router method for risers in the future, we are looking at getting a sanding drum as Crooked Stic suggested.
More to come,
Matt & Tycho
You have to ask if I want to see pictures of a bow. Let me think on it, heck yes!
KellyG : Alright then! I'll have some pictures for you soon.
So we had already placed our order for the glass, lams and glue some time ago. We tried getting ahold of Kennym, but through some breakdown in email communication, we never heard back. This turned out to be a good thing, since we learned of a bowyer that lives much closer, Rodney Wright (http://www.wrightarchery.com/) so as to reduce the cost of shipping and the issue of border taxes and such. (We live in Quebec, Canada) He supplies bow building materials. He has a small list of some of the things he sells on his site, but it is best to call or email to find out everything he has.
So we ordered:
- 4 x 0.040" clear fiberglass
- 4 x 0.085" Parallel Chakote laminations (this is the beautiful red wood shown as the demonstration Rodney\\'s Lams (http://www.wrightarchery.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Lamination) )
-4 x 0.085" tapered Ash 0.001"/inch
-1 pint set of Smooth on epoxy
We received everything quickly:
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3248.jpg)
The wood is really nice, we only had one concern, one ash lamination ( the bottom one, at the top of the lam, towards the right side, I'll try to get a better picture soon) has a knot on the edge, leaving some empty space. Since it is at the butt end of the taper, it might leave a tiny gap once the bow is made. Is this an issue?
The Chakote lams are beautiful and will go well with the pink-red arariba in the riser:
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3249.jpg)
Here is biggest concern. We ordered a 1 pint set of Smooth-on epoxy. Rodney sent us this quantity, but in tupperware containers... He had not advised us of this beforehand... We are concerned about how well the epoxy will store in plastic given that it is rather permeable to gasses over time... We feel that for 35$, we should be getting the epoxy in the usual 1 pint metal canisters. We haven't contacted Rodney yet about it, we figured we would ask you guys what you thought first.
Other than this, the service from Rodney was excellent. He was easy to get ahold of and very personable.
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3250.jpg)
(http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/kalkhr/DSCN3252.jpg)
Let us know what you think! Thanks!
More to come,
Matt & Tycho
On the chipped lam, I would chop of 1/2" (or whatever it takes to get rid of it) and do the same to the one it will mate to. At .001 taper it is a tiny, tiny stack reduction. It looks like you have length to play with.
Rodney is a good man, and a fine bowyer. Talk to him if ya got a problem.