Trad Gang

Learned a hard lesson today.

I cut a hackberry tree a few months back while cutting some osage and did not have time to get the bark off immediately.

Long story short. I had them stacked in my garage and decide to shuck a few staves today to help them dry quicker. I notice just under the bark the wood started turning a grayish color in some spots.

As I removed the bark I discovered that this was the case for 90% of what would be the back. Upon closer inspection the only thing I can figure is it started to decay. The gray colored wood was real spongy and sort of crumbly and would simply fold in half and splinter when I tested a piece about 1/4" thick.

All of it that I had was like this so I guess it'll be fire wood this winter       Oh well.. another lesson learned in this journey.

Moral of the story is to get that bark off ASAP on hackberry.

I have not seen this to be the case with hickory, osage, or locust which is the only thing I have cut from a tree. I do try to get them all shucked as soon as I can but it can be time consuming and sometimes time does not permit.

Next time I cut some HB it will get shucked right away or I won't cut it.

Stiks

I had some nice hickory do the same thing one time so I learned that lesson the hard way too. Now I try to get the bark off whitewoods within a day or two after its cut.

Sorry to hear that Kris.    :(  

I have a few more whitewood stave is my stash but, after their gone I wont cut anymore.

That bites, sorry dude.  Guess i better get the bark off mine asap.  I cut it just about a month ago, hope it's not a loss!

We got more hackberry around here than you can shake a stick at so finding more won't be a problem. Just more work that I have a hard enough time finding time for LOL

Glad you got something out of this post K-Hat. Hope yours is still good.

I really kinda enjoy working with the white woods Joe. Don't get me wrong I still love my osage but I like a variety. I'm gonna finish up a light weight Juniper and work on a couple yew bows while my trade bow is drying.

Kris

I love the way Hackberry bark comes off right after you cut it. I would start one end with my fillet knife and just grab it with my hands and peel. I wish I could get osage to do that.

Sorry for the loss, but like you said Hackberry is dang near everywhere. I've got tons of it around here also. I'm anxious to finish up the one I have started, but my swap bow has a few more days on the finishing then it will be off. Soon as that's done I'm gonna finish the Hackberry, kinda curious to see how it shoots compared to the other woods I've worked with.

Kris, I had better check that chunk of hackberry you gave me at the Classic. It's a big chunk so I bet it is still wet inside.

I had a hackberry log change colors on me too.  I cut it, split it, and peeled the bark off of it.  It was the typical white wood color.  After a few days, it started to get darker.  It kept getting darker and darker. I haven't tried using it yet. Here is what it looked like after a few weeks. It is even darker now.  Did your hackberry look like this? (the one on the left is elm)

   (http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/SDC10107.jpg)

Scrub, did you remove the cambium  layer? Hack has it pretty thick! I cut alot of hack since a kid, firewood, and built a couple bows out of it. After shooting Deans Hackberry at the GLII in Marshall, had to try!

I won't build anymore from Hack though, to much osage to work, and it don't rot like that, if I get lazy!  :D  

Hack oxidizes with a blue/gray hue, streaks,  pretty normal.

QuoteOriginally posted by scrub-buster:
I had a hackberry log change colors on me too.  I cut it, split it, and peeled the bark off of it.  It was the typical white wood color.  After a few days, it started to get darker.  It kept getting darker and darker. I haven't tried using it yet. Here is what it looked like after a few weeks. It is even darker now.  Did your hackberry look like this? (the one on the left is elm)

    (http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/SDC10107.jpg)

Yep, I got some that looks just like that Scrub, but hit it with some 100-120 grit and a palm sander and it comes right off. Nice creamy white underneath. I think that's just how hackberry dries? Not sure, but there seems to be a similarity here and the white wood underneath the grey/green exterior looks nice. I'll find out soon enough when I put the finishing touches on my trade bow cause then it's back to work on my hackberry I started about a month ago.

The stuff on mine didn't really look like that Scrub.

My hackberry was gray for about 1/4 deep into the back of the stave. and real pourous and spongy. I'm pretty convinced it was decay.

I had a stave that did turn a grayish blue but it sanded right off like semo and Frank are saying. I'll get the bark off when I cut some next time LOL


Pat if the stuff I gave you is like that I'll bring you some more (bark removed) and sealed to the classic in april.

Kris

Yes, I removed the cambium layer.  I guess it was something with that one tree.  I helped a friend cut a hackberry from his property and it didn't turn dark.  I don't think it is decay, the wood is still hard.  Maybe I'll leave it like that and have a natural camo backing.

Or maybe it's something in the soil! It's also a smaller size tree than I would normally cut!

Black locust and white ash seem to be different in different areas also, from my experience! But hey, so is Osage, isn't it.
 :bigsmyl:

My hackberry turned colors too. I cut it, split it, pulled the bark off and sealed it with shellac the same day. It was as white as could be for a week or so and then it gradually started getting darker and darker. Heres what it looks like now.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/003-12.jpg)

I haven't had any trouble with mine but it's unreal dry here...but I took all the bark off mine the day I cut it and let it dry maybe an hour are so before i sealed it. The stuff was really wet and the next day I worked on down and it was like pealing a carrot.

I

I had the same thing happen to a small tree once. I was told that the tree had fungus on it before it was cut. And likely it was already dieing.
 Sence then I cut 3 outher trees and these were aright. But have talked to outhers that had this happen to them. I just cut another but one guy I know said he scraped below the fungus and built a bow. It was fine.

I just debarkd some of my hackberry and it's got something going on, don't know if fungus or what, and these wormy looking grooves in places.  Is it a lost cause?  Here are some pics

 (http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Photo07091648.jpg)

 (http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Photo07091649.jpg)

The wood doesn't seem to have the spongy brittle aspect that Kris mentioned with his.  In fact, i tried sanding down past some of the "watermark" discolored areas, and i was no dif than sanding the unaffected areas.  If it's not compromised, can i just sand past the discoloration (evenly down the whole back i would assume)??

Those look like worm trails Kevin, better make a closer inspection and see if they dove down into the meat on the back of the stave. Even if they just ate into the first layer the stave will pretty much be toast.

If they didn't eat much on the top layer then you should be ok. You should be able to sand the top off of the discolored wood on the outside layer and get down to solid white wood. Mine are greyish/brown on the surface but milky white just a few mils down.

thanks bro, i'll give it a shot, they dont look 2 deep.  my son was about 2 see a grown man cry!!   ;)

Roy now that you mention it the tree I cut could have had a fungus already I guess. It's the only hackberry I have cut so I guess it is possible. I got three logs out of it and about 30 staves give or take I guess. It was a good looking tree.

Well the good side to all of this, if there is one......is that Hackberry is all over the place and it splits so easily. It's really not that hard to find some more and about 1 Saturday worth of work you can have a bunch more staves and try something different the next time around.
I kind of experimented with the batch that I cut and I put some in my hot box that were sealed on the back and ends, and some that were not sealed at all. Then I let some dry natural with sealer and without. Hackberry will check with too much heat, but not anything like osage will. I also found that the back dried just fine without sealer on it, but the ends will check if they are left unsealed.

That's about all I understand about hackberry so far except for how easy it is to split, debark, and clean up with a draw knife. I think my 8yr. old nephew could finish a hackberry stave with a little direction. It's a pure joy to work with after killing myself with osage for so long.
However it's not as versital as osage from what I've read, so there's a trade off there of good and bad.

I've got my sights on a few small hackberry trees, probably going to cut them this upcoming week. For best results do I need to seal the back of the hackberry bow stave after removing the bark or just the ends? Also does this wood respond well to splitting or should I use the bandsaw? Thx

Seal the ends not the back, be careful when debarking because the wood that's directly underneat IS you bow's back. Any nick, scratch, or dent you make on that softwood under the bark will show worse later on.

Hackberry is the easiest wood I have ever split and you can just about peel the bark off with your hands and a little help with a fillet knife.

Whats the minimum width I should make the staves on the back? One tree is probably 4 inches diameter and has a nice straight section. I was thinking it could make at least two bow staves and maybe up to four if the splits worked well. I'm planning on roughing out one or two bows and letting them dry tied to either a straight board or caul if I get time to make one up soon.

I just cut a hackberry and took the bark off the same day.  I left the staves set overnight in my garage and the very next day they had turned green like in one of the previous pics.  Freaked me out a little at first, but I figure that must just be what that summer cut wood does.

Similarly, I had some hackberry I had cut and debarked in November.  I had the staves drying in my basement.  We had an incredibly prolonged, wet spring, during which time the air in my normally bone dry basement felt a little muggy.  I noticed at the end of spring, the hackberry staves had thin fuzzy mold on their backs.  None on the osage, locust, yew, hickory, etc.. staves. Just on the hackberry.  Weird.  I sprayed it off with a garden hose, then promptly started building a bow from one of them.  Turned out fine at 62#.  The mold was just surficial and came right off.  No residual staining or evidnece beneath.  In fact, I just stitched the grip on the other day.  

(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww48/Alpinbogen/Anthracite7-11005a.jpg)

You are a lucky man Adam.  That many bowes and a place to hang them all.

Why should the back not be sealed like the ends after removing the bark? Does the wood not check like other woods?
When I cut a Hackberry tree earlier this year, I split the staves, pulled off the bark and sealed the ends and the back. The wood never changed colors and it didn't seem to hurt it after it had dried. Just wondering, because that was my first white wood bow.

I sealed the backs on mine but it's real dry here,didn't want to chance it.

So whats the consensus on sealing the back or not? I just cut and split a small hackberry today, its debarked and the ends are sealed. Should I seal the back or not? Also can i keep the staves in the garage or should i squirrel them in the basement to keep them cool?

SportHunter, IMO it can't hurt to seal the backs, it may be overkill, but better safe than sorry. I put 8 hackberry staves in the loft of my storage shed with a black roof.  I sealed the ends and the backs with shellac before storing in the spring and I don't have any cracks yet.....Dan

I put one coat on the back and several on the ends of my hackberry and they stayed pristine. I stored all mine in my basement shop at a constant temp and humidity level.

I just coated the backs just in case. Seven staves came from two logs out of a fresh cut tree and the other was a small tree. Overall a great day in the woods. I also saw some osage for the next bow wood trip.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa224/SOLOHUNTER/P1030246.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa224/SOLOHUNTER/P1030247.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa224/SOLOHUNTER/P1030248.jpg)