Getting close to the point where I can finish up this bow I am working on. I was doing some work to lower the weight and put a short string on for the first time. Thats when I noticed right away that my riser separated. My heart just dropped. I have been really excited about this bow and have been taking my time with it. Please tell me I can fix this somehow.
Riser was glued up with TB3. The separation is above the shelf only, so far.
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Does your bow bend through the riser?
Are the limbs done with smooth on??
Lakota
I don't think so. But I should mention that the gap only appears when the bow is strung with actual string. Once string is taken off, the gap closes up.
Mike, Everything is smooth-on except riser.
I use tb3 on my all wood creations, but have never used it in conjunction with smooth on, as you have. It looks as if the bow has plenty of weight designed in it. I will defer to some one with more experience here.
If it were mine, I would probably put it on a tiller tree and as the crack opens see if I could get some smooth on in the area in question and then put a heat lamp on it for the 4 hours stated on the can. Never had to try it though
I thought about that. With the bow strung up, the gap is just big enough to see a little light thru it. I haven't tried putting it on the tree to see if it opens up any more. Will try later and see what happens. I really don't want to loose this bow.
Are both sides of the riser showing the same?
Right now its just above the shelf in the narrow area. The handle is still solid but I imagine the separation will continue to work its way down if not fixed now. The separation does go all the way thru.
If this is a low weight bow I would string it stress it as far as you dare to open the gap and mix a little smoothon warmed in a microwave oven to thin and work into the gap until filled and clamp and leave for 48 hours cold.
I agree with Blkbird, I have never used smooth on but my experience with Urac when it's warm in the garage is that it's runny enough you could open up the gap and keep squishing some of that down into the void then gently clamp it closed. You may have clamped it too tight to begin with and squeezed all your TBIII glue out, then ended up with a dry glue joint. You can't clamp TB glue too tight and I always ruff up my two mating surfaces real good before hand so I minimize the chances of a dry glue joint.
Good luck!
Well I put it on the tree and gave it a tug to see how much the gap would open. I was worried I wouldn't have much of a gap and it would be hard to get the glue all the way in. WELL, that wasn't a problem. Got to about 3/4 draw and pop. The rest of the joint came undone. Luckily it all came apart clean. So the problem of getting the smooth on in there isn't a problem now. I left it on the tree as it was and shoved as much s-o in there as I could. Its all clamped up and sitting under a lamp for the night. May unwrap it tomorrow night and start sanding all the s-o off, but won't string it up till after a couple days.
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Hope it works!!
Did someone say awhile back that TB is not resistant to heat?
Did you have it in a heat box?
If so, I'll mark that down in my mental notes...
I am sure that was the problem. I was using heat strips (for the first time) and left it on high for WAY to long. I have been waiting for something to happen because of that. Just hope this is fixable. I will be using s-o more often after this probably.
I had a seperation in some actionboo in the bow I'm working on now. It wasen't my glue joint but a lamination joint from the factory. One at the fade and two others on the side of the limb. I filed it with urac and tried my best to pack it in there. Smacked it in with my finger. After smacking and pushing and rubbing the urac in there until I thought I had it as full as I was going to get in there I put it back in the form, bolted it together and blew the hose back up. Put in the oven at around 90 degrees for 20 hours or so then let it cool for 10 or more hours I can't really remember the exact hours. Got it out and they had completly disappeared. So as of right now its going good. I've only put a long string on it so far and haven't had any showings of the seperations but everything might fly all to hell with the short string but just gotta try and see.
oh duh. Why didn't I just put it in the form. That would have been easier. Those clamps were a pain to put on with everything round now. Hope yours works out D
Thanks Matt, that is good for all of us to know! :thumbsup:
if anyone ever has the need to try and get super thin CA glue into a crack, split, seperation etc. a very good method is using a syringe. you can get them at a pharmacy. if you get wicking type CA glue thats even better as it will suck right into a crack as small as .002. i've done it. it works well. glad it worked out for you the way it did. don
Well that explains it, I thought maybe you had a dry glue joint Matt and I didn't know that you heated your Tite Bond glue, you should stick with Urac or smooth on if you heat it. Those two are better resistant to heat, I heated my limbs several times trying to take out a bit of twist and I used Urac. Never had any hint of it seperating.
I hope it all works out for ya.
I've never used CA glue, could somebody please explain to this Redneck from Missouri just exactly what that is? :goldtooth:
I've even looked in the stores and haven't seen anything that says CA glue on it.
Cyanoacrilate or sumpin like that.
(Superglue ,even I can spell that!)
I use the loctite in the bottle from wallyworld a lot, works great!
Kenny, is the loctite thin?
I don't think all superglue is a CA. You can usually find actual CA at a wood shop but most hardware store don't carry it. I think the Gorilla superglue is a CA though.
This bow was supposed to be a give away but after this I think I am going to have to keep it. Oh darn. The other parts of the lam will give away sometime and I don't want that happening to someone else. Another lesson learned for this rook.
try the model shops for ca glue, comes in different viscocities- thin, med and thick- they sell accelerator, and clean up thinners.
it always seem to be the best quality- we use it for all sorts of wood on wood or wood on synthetic applications.
The CA with the accelerator is the best. I use the accelerator all the time. Makes fletching arrows go real fast.
I am not saying I am right either :) But I dont think they are made the same. The activator I use is CA activator and it doesn't work on most superglues. It does work on Gorilla.
the CA that you want for repairing cracks IMO is a wicking type. it is made to be drawn in to the crack. the stuff i have will work on a crack as small as .002. the label says ZAP CA. i use it with a syringe. don
I was thinking that all superglue was CA too....Hum I have no doubt that ya'll are smarter than I am so maybe its not. I haven't read many superglue labels though. All I know that the Gorilla Glue version is some stought stuff. lol...Matt I hope your bow works out man. Let us know how it ends up.
OK Matt, how did it end up? :coffee:
So far I have just sanded all s-o off and got it back to how it looked before. I then put it up for another day to cure out some more. I have today off of work so I should get it strung up again by the end of the day.
Hey Matt,
This may sound hokey to you, but it works very well. If you grind down your back overlay nice and flat on the back first, then drill and countersink a couple #7 holes, and put a couple 2" drywall screws into that riser with smooth on in the holes. Then put another overlay over it. This will give you some insurance it doesn't delaminate somewhere else.
I had one i used tight bond on and heated myself that i saved like that. she's 57# and still holding up after 4 years.
urac or smooth on is the only way to go if you are going to use heat.
Putting a couple screws in it crossed my mind but putting them under a lam is a great idea. I just might have to do that for some insurance.
After getting the s-o in there a couple days ago, it is time to test it out. But first I couldn't help myself and I wanted to see what the bow would look like before I might destroy it. So I sanded worked in the hand grip, sanded it all down over and over again and threw on first coat of oil
I did end up putting one screw in it. Because of the shape of the riser, depth of the lams, I had to come in from the belly side and was only able to put in one screw. I didn't worry about covering it up with another lam because it will be under the the leather grip. I did use some epoxy in with the screw and counter sunk it with some wood filled epoxy to fill in the hole.
Here is where she lies. I put it on the tree and with a full safety mask on, I pulled it out to full draw over and over again. Everything is holding so far. I took several shots with it and still holding solid, so far.
Bow is pulling 55#. Still have a lot more sanding and oil before its all done.
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Love it when a plan comes together!!
That is a sweet riser!
Looks good Matt!
That's a good looking bow Matt!
Good build and good fix!
CJ
Awesome Job!!! nice looking bow Matt
Looks great! From the side pics, you can't even tell there was a repair.
Well not to say the same thing that everybody else is but it does look really good man. You did a great job. I really like the riser colors.
Wow! Nice job Matt. that is Sweeeeet!
Thanks guys. finished sanding and oil last night and started polishing. Its a stormy crappy day so should get this thing all done today.
:bigsmyl: :bigsmyl: :clapper:
Its done and still holding together. I still have to say for now tho. I don't trust it yet.
55# at 28"
64" NTN
.050 glass back and belly
.030 core glass
Elm core with Coco belly
.343 total stack all parallel
gradual trap from butt to tip. Trap gets greater towards tip to counter parallel lams
sealed with tru oil then speed buffed
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/CIMG1223.jpg)
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What kind of tip overlay have you got going there Matt? those look pretty good. looks like some kind of horn material...
They are horn. I have a bunch of it for knife handles. Works good for tips.
Nice save, Matt.
Stan
Good looking bow and good luck with the repair.
This is JUST a thought. While putting a slide on bow quiver like the selway with its rubber sleeves will not help hold the bow together, it may help prevent the bow from "exploding" and help prevent you from getting injured should the bow "pop" and come apart.
Additionally, smooth on is very good stuff and bonds very well. I was gluing a riser together once (just a riser, not a bow) and before I put my clamps on it I saw a spot that had a little smooth on it...and I wiped all the smooth on off that area clean with a rag before putting a small block on the riser where I place my clamp (to prevent the clamp from leaving an imprint in my riser when I glue it up). Well...despite me wiping all the smooth on off that area...that little block was glued to the riser. I tried tapping it off with a hammer by hitting it on the side to knock it loose, but that little bugger stayed put. I didn't want to hit it any harder, so I ended up grinding it off. My point is, I suspect that area will be ok unless the old glue that was in that area prevents the smooth on from grabbing hold. I actually would be more concerned about the other areas of the riser that don't have smooth on in them.
Lee. the other layers are the ones I am afraid off. I do have a BigJim quiver on there now.
Nice fix Matt and and a great looking bow. How does it shoot?
wow turned out really pretty