This one kicked my butt. I've been chasin rings off and on this piece of osage for a while now and I think I'm finally callin it quits on this one for now. About the time I would think I had it goin my way, I would go through another ring!! Its 52" long and I had planned on makin a little indian bow out of it for my son.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/001-17.jpg) (http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/002-11.jpg)
My mood changed pretty quick when I climbed up in the rafters in my shop to see what I could find and I came down with this. Now this I can work with! :goldtooth:
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/004-10.jpg) (http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/005-4.jpg)
Wow, those are some seriously thin rings! The second stave sure looks good.
When they are that thin I use a scraper like tool. I work to a couple of rings above. Then go up the left for a foot or so, down the middle and down the left. If I make a mistake i is on the sides which will come out. Resist the temptation to shape out the bow. Then there is room for error. I'd use a curved scraper. My tool of choice is the shavehooks. Middle set of 3 tools. Curved one is my favorite. the curved tool makes for fewer violation. I can dig out rings and valleys without violating other rings.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/Jawge/Tools/shavehooks.jpg)
that first picture looks like pretty low density osage.
Back it with rawhide or paper. Easy fix and will still make a good bow for a youngster.
Back it with something, will make a great bow.
I had both of these pieces marked June 2009 so they came from the same tree. I think the thin-ringed piece was a limb close to the base and the bigger one was from the main trunk if I remember right. So if I have some ring violations and back it with rawhide yall think it would be ok? It would only be in the 35-40# range. I got a couple of copperhead skins too but I didnt figure that would strengthen the back much?
Rawhide backing should work fine as long as the violations are not too severe. I love thin ringed osage and usually back them with rawhide.
Those ring are not thin enough to warrant having any violations. You got some thick enough rings starting 4 down. I hate ring violations. But that's me. I've seen bows for sale with several ring violations. Inexcusable as far as I am concerned. :) Jawge
I'll take a break from it for a little while and work on the bigger stave in the bottom pic. I think I'm just frustrated with it for now. Thanks for all the info guys.
George, I dont have near as much experience or patience as you but when I come back to it I'll try not to disappoint you. ;)
Stave #2 would almost be like "cheating" now wouldn't it Okie? :thumbsup:
What type of scrapers are those in the middle of the pic? I've been using some flat cabinet scrapers but those with some handles look pretty neat and would seem to give you a bit more leverage over the handheld/finger type of scraper.
Thanks~
You can do it! Okie, don't give up on it! :) jawge
Yer right Lee. I think ole Okie is skeered of stave # 1:)
And Jawge, I think I remember you telling me once that a couple ring violations is ok?
That true?
Alright, I'll go back to the thin-ringed stave and see what I can do. Nobody calls me yeller. :)
No, I would never say that, Roy. On red oak boards a couple of run outs per limb is ok for 50-55# bend in the handle bows. That's different. You may be referring to that. No one is calling you yeller, Okie. No one who wants to make bows is yeller. Bot one continuos growth ring on the back of any bow is a good thing. I remember going back and forth a couple of times ...may be 3 or more before I got it. Now you may want to back it anyway with rawhide. That's up to you.
:) Jawge
Okie I just finished chasing ring on two sister staves that looked like what you got there. I did what Jawge suggested and got to a little heavier ring. I chased the one above it and finished them with a scraper and got it done.
If I can do it anybody can, LOL
Stiks
I think ...thin ring are fun ...to chase !!!! Don't give up !!
You can't be aggressive on thin ringed osage. Go slow and carefull with a cabinet scraper. That first stave is thick ringed compared to a couple that I have done.
I told you nobody calls me yeller Roy. ;) Got her down to one ring. Thanks for all the encouragement and tips from everybody. I was seriously done with this stave until you guys gave me a little encouragement.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/003-11.jpg) (http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/004-11.jpg)
You can see the ring violations on the side of the stave in this pic. They wont be in the bow after its laid out.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/005-5.jpg)
Here it is after I laid it out.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/006-3.jpg)
Excellent Okie! A little gentle push from friends can really be helpful from time to time. I know exactly where you were "mentally" with that stave. I have one going currently that is so thin ringed that if you loose your focus with the cabinet scraper (even for a second) you'll have gone through to the next ring. The only thing that has worked for me is to take this stave in "small bites" and learn to walk away when my brain gets "fuzzy" and I find myself loosing concentration. It's been 30 minute sessions on it lately but so far its helped me keep going and staying on the one chosen ring.
Look forward to see the progress on this bow.
Yeah Lee, I think focus is my main problem. I ended up doin it kinda like George said. I would go about 6 inches up one side and then back down the middle and then down the other side. Worked out pretty good. Good Luck with yours. I'll post some more pics when I make more progress.
Okie, Those are some thin rings. I had a stave that looked a lot like that one, as far as thin rings. Worked on it for about a week, a little at a time. Finally on Sunday, It all fell into place and I got the stave to one ring. Since the rings are so narrow, I might back it but the plan all along was to make mine for a kid. Good luck with your stave. Don't give up on it. Just put it away for a while and come back to it later. Randy
Finally got this one bending a little bit. Got a long ways to go though. Had to do a couple sessions of heat straightening due to some prop twist. I had to cut a little more off one of the tips because of a check in the end so its down to 49" now. I've never made a bow this short so I'm guessin these limbs are going to be really thin.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/007-3.jpg) (http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/008-7.jpg) (http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/009-3.jpg)
Yahoo...thin ringed and 49", love it!
Your are bending too much in the handle area. Leave that alone for now and get the limbs bending more.
A good self bowyer is a very skilled craftsman. Few have impressed me to be honest, but those that have I would rank as good a craftsman as any I have ever met. I am very impressed with a nice selfbow. The skill appears to require tremendous patience.
A self bowyer of any sort or skill level is a true craftsman in my book......Nice work on that stave okie, should be a one sweet stick when you finish her up.
Got her bending a little more. This string only has it braced a couple of inches high and its pulled to 35# at 14" in this pic. I'm takin it really slow with this one. Any critique is appreciated.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/009-4.jpg)
It broke about 6 inches from the tip. Had it to 35# at 18" and lookin good. No hinges or flat spots. I guess maybe when I heated it some of it got to the back of the bow, dont know for sure.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/004-13.jpg) (http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/Jamey_Burkhart/001-19.jpg)
Any ideas???
Damn! No ideas...I'm too new at this but sorry to see the result. Been there once already this month~
Looks like the back had a pretty nice clean break, yet the belly was a bit jagged. Any noticed wood flaws in that area? Sorry to see the outcome in the end I'm sure you at least learned something from the experience.
Well that's the way it goes. It happens. Start another. Jawge
Sorry to see that man, like Jawge said.....start another one and don't let it get ya down.
I'm no expert either, but it looks like maybe you tried to pull it too far too soon? Those limbs are still fairly thick and maybe it just wasn't ready to bend that far yet?
It's hard to get short bows moving very far on the tillering board very fast, the limbs require being thinned down more because of their length. Short limbs create a hinge that's barely noticeable and are under alot more stress than longer ones.
I've only made one bend in the handle bow that was 57" tip to tip and at my 28" draw all I could get out of it was 40# without breaking it in half.
Just my opinion, so I may not be 100% correct.
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I put it on the shelf of shame along with the other broken bows. That shelf is startin to get pretty cluttered, HAHA.
Semo, I know what you mean about the limbs needin to be much thinner on a short bow. I know they might look thicker in the pics but they're barely over a 1/4" thick. Maybe I had a slight hinge toward the tip I dont know for sure. I kinda think the break had somethin to do with the reflex I heated into it. I've used the same form for longer bows and it works fine for them because the reflex starts at about midlimb. Because of how short this bow was the only part of the limb reflexed was the last 6". Also the wood where it broke was really pithy inside like there was just too much early wood in there. Oh well, time to move on.
When I made my short flatbow I sanded from one end to the other evenly until I had a nice even "C" shape bending evenly throughout the entire bow. I didn't work on each area individually like I would a regular longbow, but I've only made one so that doesn't make me an expert by any means. It shoots really good though and has a nice arc through out the entire bow, so I guess I got lucky with this one?
I also use a fairly low brace height, my brace is just enough for the fletchings to clear the handle of the bow without touching when the bow is at rest, which puts it somewhere between 5-6" or so. That seems to be where it shoots the best.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/IndianLongbow001.jpg)
Sorry 'bout that :( It was looking really good tiller wise.
Looks to me like the back is pretty toasted in that area. You have to be really careful about the heat wrapping around the stave or reflecting off your caul and toasting hte back. I've been there many times though. My caul is like many and has the ability to bend wood sideways. This makes it pretty easier for heat to build up in that corner if you don't watch it.
Looks like you might be able to cut it down some and make a shooter of some kind though???
I think what you're sayin is right John. Pretty sure the heat was reflecting off the side board and getting to the back. Good idea about cuttin it off though. I think I'll cut it off and maybe it'll make a shooter for my little girl. I think I'm gonna work on some bigger staves with thicker rings for a little while though.
Semo, nice lookin bow. I have a bendy handle osage like that and I really like how it shoots. Mines a little longer though.