Trad Gang

Look what I scored at Lowes today.
3 - 2x8x8ft. boards @ $4.59 each

I feel a Caul build coming on!       :thumbsup:      

    (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards.jpg)

Do it!  I'll be taking notes...

Hey Lee, I'm gonna pass this design on to you real soon. I'll make you a template when I'm done, you know where the original design came from.....Mr. DVSHunter.   :thumbsup:  

Then you can pass along the tradition to the next guy, so I'll make you the "New Keeper" of the Caul.
 :campfire:

LOL, Sweet, I have an "Official Bow related Title" now...

I'd be happy to pass it on, look forward to the Build-a-Long.

Thanks Chris!

I changed the title of this post because the caul build is now underway. I have to first give credit where credit is due and explain what this new tradition will be.

I asked DVSHunter about his caul design awhile back and expressed my enthusiasm to build one like his because I want to put some zip in my whip, some sting in my zing, some whummp in my stump.....well you get the idea.
Dave makes some awesome looking Osage bows as you all have seen, so I wanted to incorporate some of that into my own.
Out of the goodness of his heart, he traced the design of his caul and mailed it to me. Thank you so much Dave!

So now after acquiring my 2x8's yesterday evening at Lowes I've finally begun my caul build. I wanted to post a little build along of how I'm doing it so the next guys in line to build themselves one off this same pattern will have a little something to go by.

Next in line is Lee Slikkers to receive this pattern as soon as I'm done with it. Why? Because he asked for it first. So when he receives it he will then be the  "Keeper of the Caul"  until he passes the torch onto the next guy. Then that person will then pass it along to the next, then the next. If anybody wants to get in on this you will need to contact the  "Keeper"  to get in line. It's pretty simple, and I'm sure you all will figure out how this is gonna work.
Ok, enough blabbing and on with the progress.

So far I have laid out  my pattern on the 2x8's which are 8 foot long and I could actually get by with 6 footers, but they only sell them in 8ft. lengths.

First thing I did was mark a line 1 1/2" from the edge of my board and line up the intersecting lines on each end so the pattern will be even throughout from end to end. Why 1.5" you ask? Because I'm trying to keep the pattern close enough to the edge so I don't have to go out and buy huge clamps in order to clamp a bow blank to the caul. If I utilized the entire 7" and something for the width of the 2x8 then I would have to have 10" clamps to make it work. This way I may be able to get by with 6" clamps? Don't really know yet.

Here's the pics of my progress so far.

  (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards003.jpg)

  (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards006.jpg)

Now line up the end marks on the pattern with the 1.5" line on both ends that I marked the length of the board.
You can see that this pattern is 62" long from each end mark, but the line keeps going down from the end. So continue following that arc all the way down till it runs off the board. This will give you another 2" of run out on the ends of the caul to make 4" more total length which translates into a 66" bow blank possible before it runs off the caul, at that point if a longer bow is desired the ends of the tips would just run off the ends of the pattern. You get the idea here, you can still make your 70" longbows with this caul if you want, but the last few inches won't be clamped to the actual board, they will simply just run off the ends.

  (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards004.jpg)

  (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards005.jpg)

TO BE CONTINUED..............

Very nice.  I like this.

looks good semo. I'm behind again! I have to make two more copies and send them to a few guys to pass around too. I give credit to mike yancy @ pinehollw bows for putting the idea in my head and also my neighbor chris and some liquid inspiration for the actual lines. Can't wait to see a few more bows off it.

I sent a PM to the "Keeper"    :bigsmyl:

I bet before it's all over every selfbow builder in Trad Gang Land will have a copy of your caul Dave. This may be your legacy man!    :thumbsup:      :notworthy:

BTW- Just so you all know, I laminated the edges of the pattern with heavy packaging tape (Clear) before I cut the pattern out. So it should be fairly durable, hopefully won't rip or tear. It should also be water proof, beer proof, and snot prool so this same pattern can be used over and over again.

Stiks, got your PM/Address so we're all set.

Semo, do you happen to have a pic of any bows made off that caul design?  I'd love to see a couple examples...

Thanks~

This is awesome. I would love to get in on this history in the making. Thanks for the insight.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lee Slikkers:
Stiks, got your PM/Address so we're all set.

Semo, do you happen to have a pic of any bows made off that caul design?  I'd love to see a couple examples...

Thanks~

Maybe we can get DVS to post some of his?
He is the original user of this caul and has put some fine lookin curves into some of his bows with it. In the meantime I'll see if I can dig some of his bow pics up.

Here's one of Dave's most recent masterpieces.
Scroll on down to see the pics of the bow sitting on top of the caul.

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=005627;p=1

Sweet, love the curves on that bow.  Can't wait!

Oh, before you drop it in the mail Chris, why don't we have each person who receives it sign it before they pass it on...would be pretty cool to see all the folks who have used it??

:knothead:   Never mind Chris...just worked my way through all my emails/PM's and got yours, least we were on the same page with the idea. LOL

Thanks~

Here are a few pics that I can find.

I used less reflex in thi (http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/dvshunter/CIMG0107.jpg)s one.

(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/dvshunter/CIMG0102.jpg)

This one had less deflex and more reflex.
(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/dvshunter/CIMG0014.jpg)

These were the first ones from the caul.
(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/dvshunter/CIMG0027.jpg)

(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/dvshunter/CIMG0013.jpg)

(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/dvshunter/CIMG0012.jpg)

The nice thing is you can experiment with the caul. add more reflex or deflex until you get the profile that you are looking for.  I"m sending out the last few patterns tomorrow. I think it will be five or so total. Hopefully everyone will pass them around when they are done. Looking forward to seeing other bows from it.

PS I think that the two sides are a bit off so I only use one side and heat one limb at a time, but it does work going all at once.

Thanks for posting those pics here Dave, I looked through some old posts and couldn't remember which ones had pics of your bows in them. Those all look sweet!

Couple of questions and I think some of the other guys would be interested in these answers also.

First question is, how much do you heat the bow to get it to retain that shape? I mean, is it necessary to actually "brown" or discolor the wood surface, or just get it hot through and through?

Second, at what stage in the tillering process do you put your curves in the bow blank? Do you tiller first then heat, or just work the bow blank down to a certain thickness, then heat the shape in, and then tiller??

I've never used a caul before and it seems like you've got a good system going.

Thanks

My nephews are down here at my house for a few days so the caul build is at a stand still until they leave. I can't get much done with an 8yr. old and a 6 yr. old under foot. They want to be into anything I'm doing and though I love em to death, it's hard to concentrate with 2 boys touching and grabbing everything on my work bench. LOL
Not to mention the constant barrage of questions!

Semo-  Everything I learned about heating bows I got from right here and justg going for it. I don't heat them enough to change the color, rather just get it hot enough that I cant touch it for more than a moment before It would burn.  I do all my heating before ever stressing the wood.  I just shape them limbs a bit and go for it.

Funny thing about those questions...  :rolleyes:  
HAHA where would WE be without some good answers.

OK, since we're tossing out "Caul" and "Heat treating" questions...I have a couple.

1) I assume the clamping surface needs to be as smooth and fair as possible?

2) Do you folks lay down a band (metal, etc) of something instead of sanding/fairing in the Caul surface?

3) Let's say you are working white wood and it has some fairly excessive twists you need to heat, shim and clamp...how/what do you use to as wedges to keep from crushing or leaving wedge impressions on the softer woods?

I think that should get the ball rolling, at least in my court   :thumbsup:

DVS Quote - "PS I think that the two sides are a bit off so I only use one side and heat one limb at a time, but it does work going all at once."

I actually put a steel rule, and a tape measure on your caul design then began to take measurments and lay out some numbers on it.....you would be surprised just how close it is. One little area on the far end in the pic had a high spot and I fixed that, so it's nearly perfect in the pic you see on page 1 where I actually cut the shape out of the pattern.   :thumbsup:  


Lee- That's why I'm going to try and cut mine with a router, then if it's not smooth enough I'll work on it with a drum sander a little bit. Since you will be putting the curves in the bow blank before tillering I wouldn't think it would leave enough of an impression in the wood that it won't be gone after wood removal? I could be wrong, but I'll use some kind of small wood pads under my clamp bases to go against the bow when I clamp it down, probably small thin squares of plywood.

If you were using the caul to laminate a bow for gluing then everything changes, but just for wood bending I don't intend to use any kind of pressure strip as such.

Again, I'm no expert yet and Dave may have a different answer?

semo has the right idea. I cut my caul with a recipricating saw, so smooth isn't necessary. I don't use anything under my clamps either. I get the wood hot enough that it bends with very little tension. I'm probably just lucky, but I rarely crush anything, and even then like semo said, all that wood comes off.

Thanks guys, sounds like I'm jumping the gun and looking for issues before they show up.

I cut the first board out with a jig saw and then cleaned the edges up with my drum sanders. Then I made it nice and smooth with the palm sander.

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards022.jpg)

The second board I decided to try my 10" band saw and it made a nicer cut than the jig saw so I actually skipped the drum sander step and went straight to the palm sander.

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards024.jpg)

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards023.jpg)

Here's where I'm at right now and I'll build the back board for it tomorrow. Then I may call it done? The bench vise seems to work really well for holding the caul in place so I may just use that instead of legs to sit on top of my shaving beam?

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards027.jpg)

Semo,  What type of 2x8 did you buy?

QuoteOriginally posted by StoneAK:
Semo,  What type of 2x8 did you buy?

It's just building or framing grade lumber, not the expensive treated lumber. I figure this caul will always be inside my garage so it doesn't need to be treated. I'm not even going to put any finish on it. It will probably end up with oil from heat treating and glue and such all over it in time anyway as I put it to use. I'm working on the back stop right now and then it will be complete. At least until I start using it and need any modifications on it here and there. Won't know until I incorporate it into my bow builidng process.

The worst part about the whole thing is clamps, they are expensive as hell and the clamps I have on hand aren't big enough for it. I've got to come up with a reasonable alternative for the clamping process because I can't afford to run out and buy all new clamps.

I know what you mean about the cost of clamps they can be costly.

Hey Semo... that caul looks great. Did you get the measurments somewhere to make it or did you come up with it on your own. I have been looking into making a caul but there isn't anywhere I can find any measurments. Thanks for the help

Semo,
Drill a whole bunch of 1/2-3/4" holes down the length of it and make a trip to the local bike store and grab all the old bike tubes you can get. Cut them into strips and weave them tightly over the top to clamp it down. Should be able to get heaps of tubes at the moment with everyone getting their bikes tuned up for this years riding season. A whole bunch cheaper than clamps.

That would work if I was gluing Razorback, but this caul will be used for heat treating mainly. I'm afraid the tubes would melt. I think I can build my own clamps myself since I'm actually a welder/fabricator by trade, I just need to get some materials and more welding wire. I believe that route would be cheaper than buying them and the design I plan to build would be much more efficent than your everyday C clamps.

Justin- It's DVSHunter's original caul design that I made a few small modifications on, but basically the same caul. Go back to page 1 and read from the beginning and you'll get the jist of what's happened up to this point.

Here's the finished pics of my caul.

First laying out the backstop to have a 1 1/2" overhang on top for using C clamps to pull out camber.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards028.jpg)
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards030.jpg)

Next I cut it out using my small 10" band saw, which is a pain, but as long as I go slow it gets the job done.

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards031.jpg)

Next I clean up my saw marks with a file.

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards032.jpg)

Now I attach the back stop and recheck my work to make sure everything came out the way I wanted it to.

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards036.jpg)

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards037.jpg)

Then I use 3 1/2" wood screw to attach the backstop and do some final sanding with the palm sander to get all the edges nice and purty.
I'm calling it done at this point and will try to figure out my clamp set up next.
Thanks for following along on my caul build. If anybody has any questions, feel free to fire away and I'll do my best to answer them.

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards033.jpg)

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards034.jpg)

Chris, got the Caul Pattern in the mail today...I'm stoked!  I'll get mine cranked out over the weekend.

One thing I did with a basic reflex shaped Caul was cut the two 2"x8" shape and then drop down 2" and cut the same shape/line so you can use smaller clamps and so they have a clamping surface which parallels the shape.  I did a little photo "edit" on your pic to show where I plan on removing the wood prior to screwing it to the back/support board.

  (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TYz9Iv28wBI/AAAAAAAAA5c/PKuJHz4I9b8/editCaulBoards028.JPG)  

Thanks again~

Oh ok, I see what you mean. Just don't go too thin on the curve or it might crack on ya. When you get to putting pressure on it there can be quite a bit of stress there and pine has never been known for it's strength under pressure.

I'm going to go with a modified clamp design that I will make myself when I can get the material to build them.

This will give you an idea of what I have in mind.
I figure probably one of these every 4 - 5 inches or so? Depending on how well it's holding the bow blank down, may need more or less?
Also plan on making them with a pin that runs completely through the caul to prevent slippage.

(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards034Edited.jpg)

Dangit...your idea is a way better system.  I like those clamps.  I imagine they are a bit more coin that a regular C clamp though...I'll have to keep my eye open for those.

Thanks!

QuoteOriginally posted by Lee Slikkers:
Dangit...your idea is a way better system.  I like those clamps.  I imagine they are a bit more coin that a regular C clamp though...I'll have to keep my eye open for those.

Thanks!

You do realize that I just drew those.....right?   :rolleyes:  

You can buy factory made ones cause I've seen them in use by some of the bowyers here, I know Dick from Seattle uses them. I plan to build my own the way I want them to be. I think I can gather up the materials way cheaper than buying them anyway.

yup, seen those 3 point style clamps in all the wood working mags, not sure if I've seen them on the shelf anywhere locally...

I might just got with the hole-saw idea every so many inches.

Lee,  I saw some of those clamps at Menards this week.  I didn't look real closely so I'm not sure how big they were or the price.  I was getting some el-cheapo C-clamps and they were in a bin next to them.  There may be more than one size too.

Thanks for the heads up Ranger.  We have pretty large and fairly new Menard's here in town too, sounds like I'll have to check them out and see if they have some.  I need about 6 more splitting wedges too since I only own 1 and a little ol' 5lb sledge...a guy from work just gave me free range on a huge, old growth row of Osage and told me to help myself whenever I want    :eek:

So I think I'll need a few more wedges and a real sledge or I'll be regretting the amount of extra work once the trees are on the ground.

Lee- All I use is 2 wedges, a small hatchet, a small hand held sized sledge, and a large sledge hammer. If it gets too big for that I use the chainsaw to help it along. 3 wedges instead of 2 might come in handy on the bigger stuff, but I've managed to get by with just 2 so far.

Good luck man, take full advantage of it while you can. Remember to get lots of pics!

Wow Lee, sounds like you struck gold there!
Plenty of 'free' Osage and you can cancel your gym membership!

I just have two wedges and leap frog them down the log. It works great and a $10 each buying them in half dozen lots will hurt your wallet.
I'd definitely find a heavier sledge though!

CJ

Thanks for the advice on the wedges guys.  For the smaller diameter stuff (10") I hauled and split a month earlier I used the one steel wedge and some leftover Red Oak "splits" that worked OK...I guess I assumed that the larger, more mature trees would be a real bugger (since the 10" one was a handful for me) Now that I think about it, I have access to some scrap flat stock steel that I could grind a thin edge on and I bet those would work out just fine.  My Dad has a "real" sledge so I could grab that for the day too.

Anyway, I think I've de-railed this topic enough by now...so back to your regularly scheduled program    :coffee:

semo- it looks good. I cut mine smaller like lee said. That way I can use smaller clamps. Your clamps look fine though. Now heat some bows.

Harbor freight sells the three way

Lee I decided to take your idea with the holes and run with it, hope you don't mind.
I decided that all new clamps was too costly, even the materials and time to build them myself was too much. So I went with 1 1/8" holes 2.250" deep, every 4" from center and ended up with 15 holes total 7 on each side plus the one in dead center. This should more than be enough to get the job done and I can use standard 4" and even 3" clamps.

For the layout I set my 6" square to 1.750" and traced a line following the curvature of the caul from the top side, then measured every 4" out from center. That way I was sure there would be plenty of meat to prevent breakage of my caul when I tighten down the clamps and I can still use a 3" clamp.

The black clamps in the pic are 3" and the red one is a 4" clamp. Both will work just fine and when the tool sale comes to town shortly I'll pick up some more. I've almost got enough but some of them are old and should be replaced anyway.
Here's the pics of the final product.

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards038.jpg)

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards039.jpg)

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards040.jpg)

Does anybody else's Father own a set of Forstner Bits?? Mine does and these things are like hole saws on Steroids!! Wow!    :thumbsup:  

Much, much nicer than hole saws and I was able to do it all on the drill press. Made some really nice, smooth, pretty 1 1/8" holes.....no sanding required.    :cool:  

 (http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/CaulBoards041.jpg)


That's it now, this Project is Complete!!
Hope you all enjoyed my Caul Build, thanks for watching!
  :campfire:  

~SEMO HUNTER~

Forsner's rock, I have 1 but it isn't large enough for a clamp hole.  It's a 1" that I used to hollow out my wooden Duck Decoys when I used to carve and hunt over my own blocks.

You did a very nice job on that Caul Chris...I bet it will serve you well.  I need to get cracking on mine...I had hoped to make it this afternoon BUT my Osage run kind of side tracked my day.

Thanks Lee, I'm sure it will out last me. LOL

You'll have plenty of time to build your caul, get that Osage on the ground and get it home while you can. The caul can wait.

I used a 1 1/8" bit and I have plenty of room to spare on a 3" clamp base, you might want to drill a hole in a scrap piece of wood and check it? It might just work for ya?

Ya need to clean that shop son:)

QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
Ya need to clean that shop son:)

If I did that I wouldn't be able to find anything Roy. I got it all organized just so I know where everything is at right now. It took me years to get it to this point.   :biglaugh:

I made a half caul a few months ago, and I have found the easiest way of heating a limb to work. They say poverty is a good motivator,I tried a blow dryer since I didn't have a working heat gun with no luck (didn't figure it would)so I came up with this set up. I took an infrared patio heater(like    this (http://www.patioheaterstation.com/prodimages-cdls/FSE/fse-60255-s.jpg)  ) and hung it over a set of saw horses holding my blank and caul, focused it over the limb and went and had a cup of coffee, the infrared heat doesn't scorch and heats more even than a heat gun. By raising and lowering the heater I can adjust the amount heat that is transmitted to the stave. Got picks on my phone of a really gnarly stave and the finished result will post it later.

Poverty is a good motivator......I like that.
Necessity is the mother of invention, I think it should also say poverty is the motivation for invention.    :thumbsup:  

I got lucky and found a dual temp heat gun at Northern Tools for $25 bucks and free shipping, they also take paypal so I lucked out.
It works like a champ and gets real hot real quick.

after two trips to the trash can with my non working tools I came in and considered buying one of those from northern tools but I was afraid it wouldn't work, read to many of the bad reviews of naa sayers saying you get what you pay for. Oh well when I need one i will know where to get it.

So far mine has worked extremely well and I'm quite pleased with it. I just straightened some river cane with it not too long ago. It came with a bunch of attachments for the end and a carrying case. It's also got a 24 month warrenty and I got free shipping. They may still have free shipping on all power tools? That's a good deal right there cause shipping can eat ya alive sometimes.

Hey Stiks, I'm dropping the "Traveling Caul" pattern in the mail tomorrow for you so you should see it in a day or two...

I guess you get to hang onto it until someone posts on here and asks for it since you were the only one who requested it.     :confused:  

Thanks again DVS & Semo, I can't wait to put mine to good use in the next couple weeks.     :clapper:

QuoteOriginally posted by Lee Slikkers:
Hey Stiks, I'm dropping the "Traveling Caul" pattern in the mail tomorrow for you so you should see it in a day or two...

I guess you get to hang onto it until someone posts on here and asks for it since you were the only one who requested it.      :confused:    

Thanks again DVS & Semo, I can't wait to put mine to good use in the next couple weeks.      :clapper:  

So I assume that you got it built?
Where's the pics? We gotta have pics man!   :goldtooth:

LOL, I'll shoot some tomorrow when I have some decent light in the "man cave"...can't wait to reduce a few Osage staves and put one on it!  (my osage is a bit green yet though so it may be longer than I'd like...)

Sounds great Lee, Just in time for my trade bow. I had a couple ideas for trade bow but this came up and I figured I would wait till I got the pattern and do a sweet little R/D bow for my recipient.

Stiks

Where do you sign up to use the caul pattern? Im trying to round up some cured staves now to work on and need to build a caul. Before I was just going to guesstimate but it would be nice to have proven measurements to start out with.

I really enjoy looking at all the pictures and reading about the projects, very inspirational as my first attempt at making a bow was a complete bust.

Bryan, drop me a PM or email with your Name, address, etc and I'll make sure Stiks get the info so he knows who to pass it along too.

Thanks~

Looks like we are all going to be trying this new caul pattern out real soon?
I'm going to put my to use very shortly. I'll be sure to post some pics of how it turns out.

I hope so too but the Osage stave I've been chasing a ring on and reducing was only cut 2 months ago and from all I've been able to read/find that this is too soon to really start turning it into a bow.  Maybe if I build a "steam machine" or a Heat Box I could move it along a bit faster?

Here are some pics of my completed Caul from DVS's design plus a shot of the Osage stave I hope to use on it...

  (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TZoaSR6CQ4I/AAAAAAAABBc/GGpj0CrB2Xk/s800/CIMG0609.JPG)  

  (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TZoaf0wwQZI/AAAAAAAABBg/IFmJ28yxcYM/s800/CIMG0610.JPG)

  (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TZoasYohEGI/AAAAAAAABBk/ia-RTHbyM0M/s800/CIMG0612.JPG)

  (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TZoa5Pt3iTI/AAAAAAAABBo/VvrYOEGeQXA/s640/CIMG0613.JPG)    

Many thanks again guys    :archer:

Looks real good to me Lee!   :knothead:    :banghead:

Address Sent, Thanks so much!

quote:

---

Originally posted by SEMO_HUNTER:
Looks real good to me Lee!    :knothead:      :knothead: )