Let me begin by saying that I love wood. Wood boats, bamboo flyrods and traditional bows made of various wood combinations. Now I am starting to question my current devotion to the building of all-wood laminated bows. The benefits of glass bows are numerous, longer shooting life, weather resistance and others. But I love working with wood, the smell, natures beauty, the variances between species in performance, etc. It always seemed to me that in using glass in a bow, you neutralize those species differences and that you are working with in-organic materials. What are all of your thoughts, concerns and ideas.
well i swore i would only ever build self bows- i just love them- still love em- but they are harder to shoot- little less forgiving- now i am no expert bowyer by any strech of the imagination- but i have built quite a few now, and really am on a quest to improve my shooting- so geuss what- i have ordered a kit from binghams- my first of many to be built i'm sure!!!- i'll never stop lovin' self bows- just want to expand my horizons a bit- can still do some nice woodwork in the risers ands tips etc- just not that artistic fluid woodwork of self bowyery- but still good woodwork.
its all a journey i geuss.
I have no problem with the fiberglass bows(in fact some are just gorgeous)but to me I prefer all wood and primative. cost is a big factor. I can cut vine maple all day long for free and their is a decking/flooring outfit near me for cheap board bow stock. every time I get extra funds I think I could buy,wood/arrow shafts/quiver/you name it, then I think I am cheating myself out of building the same stuff. Fiberglass just doesn't appeal to me like all wood bows do however I am liking them more and more which is scary since I dont want to get addicted to anything else(which is why I have yet to check out the knapping forum on PA. lol.
An all wood bow or selfbow can last as long as a glass bow, shoot as many arrows as a glass bow is no more adversely effected by bad weather if finished properly. I have glass bows, one recurve and one longbow but I haven't shot them in a few years. I have hunted exclusively with my own self and backed bows for 4 or 5 years and haven't thought twice about it. I hunt whatever weather comes when I can hunt and have never had my wood bows let me down. I don't think it is a matter of whether a wood bow can handle it but whether the shooter can handle the idea of "just" a wood bow.
If you like wood bows, build wood bows...and shoot them and hunt with them. If they are properly built and well finished they will last you a lifetime. I have selfbows with at least a few thousand shots through them and they are still good to go!
I love wood, have worked with it for nearly 45 years. I learned to make bows first with glass and that's what I do. Tried selfbows, but honestly, they are far more work for a less certain outcome and I'm results oriented, so I stick to glass. However, that said, I still find tremendous wood working satisfaction in playing with riser woods and varying limb woods. I build glass bows, but I consider it a woodworking project:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/CaptainDick/twobows4.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/CaptainDick/oth6.jpg)
Pat and Dick always have a great prespective on these issues. Glad they are on here allot!
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
An all wood bow or selfbow can last as long as a glass bow, shoot as many arrows as a glass bow is no more adversely effected by bad weather if finished properly. I have glass bows, one recurve and one longbow but I haven't shot them in a few years. I have hunted exclusively with my own self and backed bows for 4 or 5 years and haven't thought twice about it. I hunt whatever weather comes when I can hunt and have never had my wood bows let me down. I don't think it is a matter of whether a wood bow can handle it but whether the shooter can handle the idea of "just" a wood bow.
If you like wood bows, build wood bows...and shoot them and hunt with them. If they are properly built and well finished they will last you a lifetime. I have selfbows with at least a few thousand shots through them and they are still good to go!
I second Pats thoughts
I agree with both Pat and Dick on their perspectives. I've only made all wood selfbows up to this point. My plan is to graduate into making some with glass on them, but I don't think that it takes anything away from an all wood selfbow. They have a beauty all their own.
I guess I fall somewhere in between the two?
I've seen some very beatiful wood/glass bows that I just dream of someday owning one, and eventually build my own.
I think if you want to try your hand at adding glass to your aresenal of bow building materials you should definitely go for it. I don't see it as "Turning your back on wood" at all. I merely see it as a bowyer striving to improve his workmanship and learn new trades.
I for one would not think any less of a man for it.
There's no reason why you couldn't do both and here is my honest opinion.
I think anyone who builds bows should experience the beauty and the challenge of building a selfbow from a stave, by taking on a stave head on one on one you learn an appreciation for the wood and how this all got started in the first place. That's something I think every man who calls himself a bowyer shouldn't cheat himself out of. Doesn't really matter where you go from there as long as you've had that experience.
It sounds to me like you've already got a good handle on that.
I got nothing against glass bows, I own several of them, I just choose to work with wood because of the satisfaction I get from building an all wood bow and hunting with it. I used to build a lot of wood laminated bows but I get much more satisfaction from a selfbow. I really enjoy the whole process of building a selfbow. From finding and cutting the perfect tree to scraping the last few shavings off the belly. Maybe if I lived somewhere where there wasnt near as many trees to choose from I might have a different opinion.
I think glass bows are very nice bows. But I choose to make bows from wood. It's all in what a guys wants and likes.
I made a few lam bows. Enough to know I prefer selfbows as far as crafting them. But I shoot a glass recurve as much as I do my selfbows. It's just easier to shoot well when you don't have a consistent work ethic as far as practice, which I do not.
After reviewing all of the above, I feel that we are fortunate indeed to be building our own bows in this day and time. The broad spectrum of materials present for one to use is almost mind boggling. Whether you choose to craft a bow from wood (such as a self bow) or a longbow with fiberglass, the satisfaction comes from using the finished product afield. Economics plays a part for some, but the passion of the hunt and days past are most certainly in our forethoughts as we work towards our goals whatever they may be. :wavey:
I can't speak for others but for me building all wood bows run way deeper then the bendifits of glass.
I make selfbows. I have only helped make one laminated bow. Never tried a glass bow. I have a few all wood laminate projects in the works as well as a few glass projects in the planning dreaming stages. Selfbows are it for me though. I just bought a black widow from a friend because I wanted one since I started trad shooting. I can say I shoot that bow maybe a handful of times, definitly less than 100. I finished making an osage selfbow about a week ago and have already put 500 shots through it. The glass bows don't have the personal feel that my selfbows give me. You really spend alot more time with a selfbow. It's odd, but they are kinda like raising kids. You can teach them with the best of your ability, and yet they all have their own personality. No two are the same even when coming from the same tree. Thats what I like about selfbow.
But I got nothing against glass bowyer. You guys build awesome stuff too.
I'm brand new to all of this and so my opinion comes from limited experience. With that said I own a glass longbow and recurve. They both shoot nice, quiet and smooth. Yet my absolute favorite is a self bow made of boo, jatoba core and osage belly. The all wood bow will throw an arrow with authority! Believe it or not it will out shoot my glass bow hands down and it is the same draw length/weight. Both sides of this discussion can appeal. From a craftsman and conservationist standpoint self bows really call. They bring a grass roots, simple form of art and function. Contrarily, you can learn a recipe with glass to make a great bow that will last years and perform at the top end of the spectrum.
I honestly think it is just a personal choice. Everyone is unique and different with different taste. I LOVE building glass bows and LOVE working with wood. I love the fact that I am taking square pieces of wood and turning them into something beautiful. I have built many wood projects and never felt like building a wood bow with fiberglass was taking away from it.. as there is a lot of wood working to do with the riser. A creative fellow will have his hands full on the riser.
So do what you love and don't be afraid to expand. It just makes you that more diverse. I have made one piece recurves, all wood laminate recurves, take down recurves and have had a blast. I want to build a "Lord of the Rings" elf bow soon. I think that will be a great challenge and will be fun to take with me when I go to the Renni fairs.
Have fun!
I tend to fall in Dick's camp on this one. The results of glass laminated bows are fairly predictable and so far I haven't had any fail. A couple years ago I finished a Dryad BBO blank and it came out nice. So I figured I knew what I was doing and tried making a hickory backed ipe. Well, out of three attempts I ended up with one light weight bow (other two broke while tillering). This gave me a whole new respect for you wood bow builders and I've been sticking to glass bows since. I am getting a hankering for a selfbow though since I don't have one yet.
In my opinion bowyers have always tried to use the best material that they could find/produce. I love wood bows but i also know that if an indian had some glass and some smooth on he would have put it to use
hear hear, aric.
my sentiments exactly.
I started by building all wood bows several years ago. I built these bows from a hickory tree that I cut down from the woods at the farm I grew up on and hunted at. These bows mean a great deal to me because of this. I became curious about glass bows about one year ago and built my first one. (Not very good) However, my mind began wandering with ideas and the thought of building my own glass bow. What I am discovering is that wood or glass it is all about your imagination. Wood or glass, bows are a work of art, expression of the bowyer making the bow. I am working on a radical glass bow right know with a riser which has a great deal of carving involved with it. It will either be really cool or a big flop, but either way I am going for it! I say if your interested, then make one. If you decide that you do not enjoy the bow as much as a wood one then you know. Otherwise, take the chance. You might just be amazed and may discover you have to make twice the time, for wood and glass! Good luck! (just my 2 cents)
Wow! I am really impressed with all of these comments. I love working with wood or playing with wood as I call it. But some of the most beautiful wood boats I know are only possible because of them using fiberglass on them. But in the same token there hasn't been a glass or graphite rod built yet that compares to a well built bamboo rod (IMO). So is it considered cheating or are they just thinking outside of the box?
what kinda wood boats do you like, i love wooden boats.
I built a glass bow once. It blew before I ever strung it. I'll stick with wood!!! d;^)
I love shooting my glass bows but I also love shooting all wood bows. When it comes to admiring and shooting I love anything with a string and no wheels.
When it comes to building I only want to build wood bows. I love wood working and I love the natural beauty that comes from a finished stave to hunting tool.
JMO, Stiks
I started hunting and shooting a Martin recurve in 1970 and have been shooting and hunting with different bows threw the years. I just started making my own bows this year for which I now just finished my first one. Theres certainly an inner pride and earthly satisfaction from creating such wooden marvels.Gives one a sense of oneness with mother nature to know you can obtain food and defend yourself with what she provides.Hang on to your hats, these woodscraft skills we possess just may be our saving grace.Sooner than you thank.
QuoteOriginally posted by eflanders:
Let me begin by saying that I love wood. Wood boats, bamboo flyrods and traditional bows made of various wood combinations. Now I am starting to question my current devotion to the building of all-wood laminated bows. The benefits of glass bows are numerous, longer shooting life, weather resistance and others. But I love working with wood, the smell, natures beauty, the variances between species in performance, etc. It always seemed to me that in using glass in a bow, you neutralize those species differences and that you are working with in-organic materials. What are all of your thoughts, concerns and ideas.
There are some excellent replies here.... i do not think you are "Neutralizing" a wood species at all by using fiberglass backing. i think of it more as protecting your investment of love and care you put into a bow building project.
Fiberglass is nasty stuff to work with, but it has so many advantages it's hard for me to ignore them and not utilize them to preserve the project and enjoy the enhanced performance capabilities.
i too love harvesting my own wood and love all things wooden. here is a transformation for you to look at.... i see no neutralizing effects here myself at all...
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Wood/Wood016.jpg)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Wood/RoughcutMaple08022.jpg)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Wood/Wood005-2.jpg)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bow%20building/Sasquatch%20002/TDSasquatch001018.jpg)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bow%20building/Sasquatch%20002/snowriserlgweb.jpg)
All I make is wooden bows for me and mine. I've never made a lam bow and have no plans to make one. I've never made a wooden backed bow. I just love selfbows. I have to back a bow I'll use rawhide, burlap, linen or silk but I won't hunt with a backed bow for a variety of reasons. :) Jawge
I have owned many glass bows over the years and my main go to hunting bow is a Shrew Classic Hunter. Having said that, there is nothing like the satisfaction I get from building all wood bows both self bows and laminated bows. To me there is nothing like turning out a all wood bow that I am satisfied with and even better yet taking a deer with it. I have done just that and then temporarily retired that bow so I can go and build another one. I have not yet attemted to build a glass bow and don't know if I ever will. Maybe some day I will, but right now I am having a lot of fun with the all wood bows and it helps to past time in the long dreary winters. I think that both glass and wood bows have their place.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I can shoot them but don't have any talent worth spit, so I do admire those that can work with there hands and bring something back to life, so to speak.
Can't you make a wood bow and put clear glass over it to let the beauty of the wood show through ?
Like I said I don't know anything about building one, but I as a user of your end product do love both.
Thanks for building them !
Yes you can add glass to the back of a wood bow! I've never seen a reason to do so. For me there are better natural options and better yet a well made selfbow shows off it's wood very well and without the "crutch" of fiberglass. JMO.
If you want to build a glass bow, do so! If you want to build a backed or lam all wood bow, then do so! If you want to build a selfbow, then do so but why spoil the beauty of an all wood bow, self or lam with fiberglass. It isn't necessary and it becomes a glass bow as soon as you do so.IMO
I see several cavemen sitting around a fire with their spears beside them. In walks another cave man with his new fancy stick and string. He is quickly beaten to death and eaten by the hungry cavemen since he wasn't using the traditional spear. One old man in the corner berates the mob for using spears and not the traditional selfclubs used in his day.
:) ... I prefer the primitive selfbows.. let the wood be the bow it wants kinda thing. But i do really enjoy seeing all the different kinds of bows you guys build, and would be glad to own/shoot any of them.
I am a tried and true selfbow lover/builder/shooter. I cut my teeth learning on board bows. I've hunted with my all-wood bows from AK to TX, and Georgia to MT, and taken all kinds of critters in all kinds of conditions with them, for more than two decades now. For me, nothing compares to a selfbow I've built from a stave. They can and do perform. But I will be a bit different and say they do not last as long as glass bows, and are not as durable, in general. There, I've said it.
I own a bunch of glass bows, and love to shoot them as well, from time to time, although I find myself seeking out my selfbows to take to the woods. They have "spirit" the others never will.
I have built a few glass bows, and own a bunch, and I have to agree that the glass defintely minimizes (IMO) the characteristics of the wood. In glass bows, design is king. In wood bows, design is important per the wood used, but the wood dictates the bows performance and varies a bunch, even within the same species....hence it's "spirit".
I name my selfbows...something I don't do with my glass bows.
Mark,
I think what you are describing is called "character". I've had rods built by the same maker, using the same materials and dimensional specifications that posessed different casting characteristics only because no two pieces of wood are the same. I haven't built enough bows yet to make the same statement about them.
I only build wood bows but seeing the wood combos you FG guys can do makes me drool. Wood that is worthless for backed or selfbows can shine under glass, I like seeing those.
Make what you want and shoot what you want. Hunt with what you want. It's your bow and your hunt. No one will ever agree 100% with everyone else.
I'll shoot wood bows because that's what I want to do. And I love seeing the glass bows guys build.
It's all good, at least it is for me.
I love seeing the artisans finished work no matter, all wood(1piece), multiple pieces or even with glass added.
I wish I had the talent to build some of the quality of bows I've seen made by the likes of you folks.
All I ever made were pretty plain, just sticks actually. But each one was a special stick to me, mainly because it could be used to fling an arrow.
Thank you all!!
God bless,Mudd
When I shoot a critter with a gun I think, "Could have done it with a bow."
When I shoot a critter with a glass bow I think, "Could have done it with a self bow."
When I shoot a critter with a self bow I think, "That was good!"
I started making self bows believing it was a stepping stone to making glass bows. Turns out its the other way around. More skill and feel for tillering required to make a wood bow.
Fine double shotguns, light lap strake all wood boats, bamboo flyrods, self bows.
Many good thoughts regarding the different types of bows, like Roy, I think they are all good, different, but still good. I made my first selfbow from a board and every selfbow since from a stave or billets. Nothing wrong with board bows, they just don't do anything for me so I use a different medium. I build BBO's, BBI's, and glass-laminated bows, and don't find much difference between them; they are both composites and require similar techniques to build. The glass bows do allow the use of many beautiful materials that will not work with the glass and I am currently concentrating on them now. However, leaning against the wall in various stages of the tillering process are a BBI, three Osage selfbows, and two glass bows. I like shooting all the different types; they all have their own distinct, individual feel. Nevertheless, when I head out to shoot a critter, 90% of the time I am carrying a bow made from a stave or billets. Sometimes the bow is backed with sinew, snakeskin, or rawhide, which technically disqualifies it from being a selfbow, but for me I still consider it one.
Enough rambling, the bow student has arrived and I had better get out to the shop.
Here is my take on it.
Life is short.
Do whatever it is that blows yer hair back, and let others do the same.
We are all the the same ,yet different.
Find the road of your likin , and enjoy it to the end.
:bigsmyl:
Glass = crutch?? Guess I didn't realize I was handicapped because I use glass.
This is for Shawn. I'm with you all the way with the exception of wood boats which I know nothing about. Do you think age might have something to do with this? I am of the older generation and just have a appreciation for craftmenship. That includes glass bows as well. Heck I love em all.
How many of you have successfully handed-down an all-wood bow? Something your grandchild could or would say: "Isn't this bow a beauty? My Grandpa made it and used to use it for hunting". That's character and something of a legacy. I'm 52 and I have my Grandpa's double barrel (although I don't shoot it anymore as it has a Damascus barrel). I also have some of his Dad's (Great Grandpa's) flyrods and all of them are still very useful and fun to fish with. Can an all-wood bow be made that can handle normal usage from generation to generation?
I would say yes if it was properly cared for. The problem with old, unused bows is their memory goes like the rest of us. When you want to shoot an old bow you have to reeducate it to bend and recover. With gradual exercising old wood bows can come back to life. A wood bow can be as durable as your Great Grandpa's fly rods!
I believe we've all earned the right to have fun in this life and I do.I presently have 28 bows; all but two were made by me; Of the 26 made by me, four are fiberglassed, one a binghams kit and three my own design; the rest are self bows and backed self bows. I use everything I can find; Like KennyM said, life is short; learn to do it if you have the desire, and why limit yourself? It's all fun! I've mastered making arrows, quivers, arm guards and tabs, and now I'm learning how to knap points.