I finished this bow over a week ago and shot it a ton. Even had a buddy shooting it a bunch in the shop. I put it up and it sat for a few days and I grabbed it to take to league last night and figured I would take a few practice shots before I left last night. Never even got an arrow in it yet. First pull and snap. Its a oak board bow with a hedge belly lam. This thing shot great and I was really looking forward to shooting it. Oh well, I guess I will have to make something else.
What could I have done to prevent this from happening or was it just time? Would a backing of some kind prevented this?
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDEtMjAxMTAzMDgtMTM0OC5qcGc.jpg)
How thick was each lam? Osage is way more powerful in compression than oak is in tension. Could have been your problem? Since the osage is failry intact and the oak is exploded, my guess is over powering took its toll.
What Pearl said! Gotta ask, do you monitor the MC of your bows? What was the R/H where you keep your bow? Since your bow was performing great and then broke after several days of storage I would also suspect low MC........Art
Not sure what you are referring to Art. Based on that, I doubt it. It was in shop where there is no temp control when I am not in there.
MC = moisture content.
R/H could be relative humidity:)
But who knows what that Ole Fart got up his sleeve:)
oh ok. The oak was a Menards board and I never did check the MC on it. I assumed it was dry enough. I forgot to check the hedge as well. I have a moisture meter, but didn't use it. As far as the humidity in the shop, I try to keep it between 0 and 100 and that changes regularly. The oak being a bit wet and drying out makes sense. I have a dedicated forced air furnace in my shop that is only on when I am in there. It has one vent that blasts out high on the wall straight across the ceiling. That just happens to be where this bow was stored.
I have electric heat in my bow shop, when not out there I keep it at 50 degrees. But being electric heat, I keep a humidifier running all the time.
I don't have any pics of it at full draw or even from checking tiller. I will have to take a close look at it tonight and really see where it broke.
Just looking at the one pic you posted I'd say the tension failuse was along a grain runoff, not along the edge but across the back; grain feathering. Red oak isn't a good bow backing IMO and especially not a board. Hickory or maybe even maple or elm would have neen a better choice bor the back.
This bow was originally supposed to be a plane board bow and got over tillered. I took to much off and it got to lite. So the hedge was added to increase draw weight.
Matt, get you a couple temp/humidity monitors at Wal-mart or hardware stores for monitoring the MC of your wood/bows. Sure proof method that won't fail you like a moisture meter. I paid something like 6-7 bucks for my monitors. I keep one in the house where I store my bows and one for the shop. Use a humidifier for winter and airconditioner for summer time control.....Art
Use a humidifier for winter and airconditioner for summer time control.
Well now hain't you just Mr. Traditional Bowyer? LOL, is that how the Injuns did it Artie Boy? :)
Matt, what is this dark line down the side of the bow? Is that some sort of imperfection in the wood? Looks like it to me. Maybe that is what caused the failure..
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/amattbow.jpg)
That is part of the grain. During finishing, I applied a dark stain after letting it sit for a couple minutes, I took thinner and wiped it all off. That brings out a lot of grain detail.
Here are a couple pics of that line. The first is prior to stain and that line doesn't show up a whole lot. The one after is after finish and the line is now dark.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/Bow2/SU1HMDAyMTctMjAxMTAyMjQtMTkyOC5qcGc.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/Bow2/1298683955.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by matts2:
That is part of the grain. During finishing, I applied a dark stain after letting it sit for a couple minutes, I took thinner and wiped it all off. That brings out a lot of grain detail.
Yeah Roy Boy, the rest of us knew that! Geez!!!
Hey, you got some skills bud! Ole Roy could learn something from you. Broke or not, I like it! Art
Can we see a pic of the back at the break? What does the grain look like there?
The reason it broke is that oak is a marginal bow wood. Why fool around with it except to learn how on an inexpensive material? The bow appears to be well made with considerable skill and artistic ability. Osage, bamboo, yew, hickory, ironwood, ipe, or other good bow woods - you'd still be shooting.
Another observation is that bamboo backing or osage belly can overstress the opposing wood - especially if that other wood is marginal in quality or grain orientation.
Looking forward to your next bow post - nice work on this one. Keep em coming.
That was my second completed bow, third attempt. At the time I didn't have any other woods and had to make a run to another members house to get that hedge. I am starting to understand the differences in woods and how each one works better in different parts of the bow.
I will get a few close up pics of the break later on when I get home. Thanks for everyone's help.
Art, don't make me make a road trip to WV tonight and thump ya son:) There has to be something that caused that grain to be different, maybe softer the way it took the stain more, and it looks like it broke along that line, Smarty Artie Pants:)
Yep, you going to have to come see me then Roy. Cause I don't travel too well. But if'n I did :deadhorse: ........Art
What's ah matter Son, yer horse and buggy broke down? Look's like it belly up:)
You ol' farts kill me! I hope I never become senile like you two!
Matt your craftsmanship is AWESOME! Pick up some soild bow wood and you are well on your way. Boo backed hickory, Ipe or osage would be great. Heck even hickory backed hickory will make a good bow. I wish I had half the artistic side you do. I can make wood bend.....kind of. But your lines and wood working skill are right on.
Here are some closer pics of the problem area as well as some reference pics from the other side.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDItMjAxMTAzMDktMTU1NS5qcGc.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDMtMjAxMTAzMDktMTU1Ni5qcGc.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDQtMjAxMTAzMDktMTU1Ni5qcGc.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDUtMjAxMTAzMDktMTU1Ni5qcGc.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDYtMjAxMTAzMDktMTU1Ny5qcGc.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb262/MSCustomCalls/SU1HMDAyNDctMjAxMTAzMDktMTU1OC5qcGc.jpg)
Sweet craftsmanship on that bow! Grain of the red oak looks good - that is no obvious edge run out or other serious flaws.
Still thinking that the layer of osage "overpowered" the oak back layer. Most of the work - compression at the belly and tension at the back - occurs very near the surfaces. The difference in wood density forced more movement in the softer back wood (oak) leading to the break down.
That same bow with a layer of hickory for backing would hold up as hickory is much closer in density to osage.
Carpenter note; lay your lovely big smoothing plane on its side or have a small stick under the heel so the exposed blade is not resting on your bench. I do this even if I have backed the blade up above the sole surface - its easier on us old wood butchers eyes.
And keep up the good work. Looking forward to your next bow project. You have a good eye for wood combination, handle shape and tiller.
QuoteOriginally posted by matts2:
What could I have done to prevent this from happening or was it just time? Would a backing of some kind prevented this?
YOU FORGOT THE FIBERGLASS :readit: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Shaun,
I see your point on the compression tension. Its making sense. On the plane laying like that, I catch myself laying upright all the time and usually lay it on its side. Didn't catch it that time.
Kirk,
The glass is in the near future.
Fiberglass isn't needed to build a good, durable bow. I have many made selfbows and backed bows that have shot thousands of arrows and are still going strong. Knowledge of the working properties of different woods and using them appropriately will serve you better on your next project.
Red oak can and has made very good, durable bows with proper design for the wood. Using it as a backing and especially on a compression strong belly wood is not a good choice. If you had put as much thought into appropriate limb components as you did in construction that beautiful riser you would have a big smile on your face today.
This is one reason why I wait until the very end of the building process to shape handles and tips on my bows. It is ashame to put all that time and effort into the riser just to have this happen.
Pat, I understand what you are saying. This particular bow was rebuilt on three occasions and just happen to end up the way it is. The hedge belly was added because I took to much off the oak while tillering. The palm was added to increase the fade for the new added hedge lam. The hedge on the riser was added because I accidentally cut the shelf for a lefty instead of a righty. This bow was a problem from the start but I don't like to give up. I prefer trying to fix things like this to see if I can. This bow was laughing at me the whole build and fighting every step. It bucked me a few times but I climbed back on but in the long run, it won. Even though it was a failure, I still consider this build a success because of everything I learned from it as well as this thread.
As long as you learn from your mistakes(experiments) it is never a failure. I still push the envelope sometimes just to see what I can achieve and many times I am unsucessful. For me wood bow building is an experiment anyway. I push the limits just to see what will happen. I'll let anyone shoot my wood bows just to see how(and if) they will hold up. Some say I'm stupid for doing this but it is all part of the larger scheme; to see if they can take it...to see if I have the skill or stomach to justify the results. The ones that do make it are usually bullet proof. The ones that don't make it are studied for future reference. I very rarely throw a broken or failed bow away. d;^)
My point to the criticism is that I see folks showing off their new bows and all I get to see is the beautiful wood working skills, beautiful wood combos in sexy shapes and beautiful tip overlays. Very rarely do I get to see the actual workings of a new bow unless I ask for it. The back profile will dictate the tiller shape and the unbraced, braces and full draw pics show how well the bow was crafted and executed. To me, these things are more important than the glamour shot we normally get to see. They tell me nothing about the actual bow, just that the "bowyer" is an excellent wood worker.
Also, I see lots of boo backed hickory bows that are well build and well tillered but to offer a newbie a boo backed hickory glue up is a bow building crime.IMO This combo is something for a bowyer to work towards but to give it to someone that is unfamiliar with the materials and the processes just to make a quick dime goes against my grain. I'm more interested in helping folks learn our great hobby/craft and sport, learn the charactoristics of woods so they can be successful with it than I am at making money or boosting my ego. Choosing wood for its working properties is more important than wood choices for their beauty...and there are excellent, appropriate wood choices that are beautiful as well as appropriate.
Sorry for my rant but this is one on my bow building pet peeves. Too many folks today care more about how good something looks than how well it works.