Trad Gang

My heart never fully got out of it but I guess it's been a good two years since I tried to make a bow. I've never claimed to make too much progress, though I did get "lucky" with a few, and enjoyed it a bunch. My biggest problem now is so called short-time memory loss. I always seemed to do better when i did a build-a-long type thread, so others could help me (and learn from my mistakes/glitches - LOL) So here I go - again.

I have a few "staves", etc. to tackle but i wanted to start with one I've had the longest. It was given to me by old friend "Linc" and has relatively tight rings, and is a thin stave. I've been messing with it a couple weeks now and taking a few pics as I've gone. I've also already run into road bumps (frost upheavels is probably more descriptive) and PM'd Pat and Art to jog my headbone. Now I've run into another problem, that i probably should have run into earlier, if my memory had been playing fair with me so I'd proceeded logically - LOL

I plan to post some pics and bring the thread up to date, and then post some pics of what has my little red wagon sort of bottomed out and see what y'all think.

The stave is old, very dry, started out with bark on and some old wormholes. It also has a nice natural reflex to it that i hope will stay in, and a curve to the side that i probably will have to heat bend out - later. Since there are a number of pics already it will take me a few posts to get it up to date but I'll try to get that done this evening. I hope I get the picture sequence right (as they were taken/stored in between other pics/subjects), or at least in half-way logical order.

Took the dark Brown Bark off with a K-bar used like a scraper, leaving almost yellowish under-bark:

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM005.jpg)

Then went to work with a drawknife, in short, cautious sessions:

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM001.jpg)

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM002.jpg)

Ends, with some of what would have been the cambrium earlier still on top/back - pretty dry now:

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM003.jpg)

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM004.jpg)

(more to come)

Continuing to remove shavings - as seen in the plastic tub:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/Linc001.jpg)

Close up:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/Linc002.jpg)

After next session, and this is when I am beginning to realize (and be bothered by) the fact that I am not seeing the coloring  and/or texture (that i recalled from earlier work) of early and late wood "layers":

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM006.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM006b.jpg)

Posted these pics in another thread about tight rings for response and advice:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM008.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM007.jpg)

Art suggested taking the stave down another 1/2"

(more to follow)

After next session (or two) with DK and Spoke Shave:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM009.jpg)

Closer up pics:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM009c.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM009b.jpg)

Now to the current stage. I took more off today in a session or two and here is a pic of the full stave:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010.jpg)

In the next post I will post 6 close ups of sections from the above depiction (taken from top to bottom). This will allow folks to see the coloration, Texture (I hope), etc. that is stumping me as to whether I am, or am not, getting a clear ring chased. I swear, I can't tell -   wherein lies my current problem  . It mostly feels like it is all one level (when running ones hand over it) but it doesn't look it due to the coloration changes and whorls. However I've never worked an Osage stave this old.

Six portioned close-up pics, along stave's length, Top (smaller end) to bottom (larger end):

I hope that folks more experienced will see in these pics what they would probably know in an instant if they were here in person - or at least enough to make a more educated guess than I fear I can:

Top:

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010g.jpg)

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010f.jpg)

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010e.jpg)

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010d.jpg)

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010c.jpg)

Bottom:

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM010b.jpg)

Or am I just over-thinking it and should just go further down untill I get a clearer indication? Does that ever come in old staves? Linc told me he had the stave for a lonnngggg time and it's been here a couple of years now in addition - perhaps that doesn't even mater. Oh yeah, one good thing, I've pretty well cleared all the worm holes off it seems.

Thanks for looking - B

PS - the thickness is now 7/8" at small end and 1 1/8" at the large end - FWIW.

One thing that will help you along at this point Bernie would be to get your intended bow rough shaped to size (at least the sides) which will save you a whole bunch of dogging on the back of that stave. Once shaped, then tackle those thin rings. Much more fun that way.

Unless you're doing all that work out of boredom  :D  !

lookin good so far bernie. thin ringed osage is a pain to chase but once you have a good ring it makes for a perty bow. im liking thin ringed osage better than thick ringed for sure. ruddy

Bernie it looks to me like there is still some sap wood in a few spots.

I like use a scraper on those thin ring staves. they can be tricky. I would take Pat's advice and do some hoggin to get rid of unneeded wood on the sides.

Stiks

OK - sounds good guys. I started to do that before but wound up having to scrape the marks off cause I'd done it too soon. LOL - Not boredom, Art just that the stave wasn't all that wide to start with so I figured I could use the "hoggin" practice -      ;)   .

I'll take the advice and with less "Back" width to look at perhaps it will be easier to see the chaseing. I'll continue from here as things develope - unless they go to heck in a handbasket -      :D  

Oh, Sticks, I do have and use a cabinet scrapper  (also an industrial hacksaw blade back and a K-bar) quite a bit in each session. Either in certain places and/or to smooth things out. I don't always remember to mention those tools though. I'll probably be using it quite a bit more now also, as I go further with this one.

Thanks friends.

Maybe I can get my head straight again now - we'll see.

How long is your stave Bernie? Got any certain design in mind?

Has your stave been stored in a climate controlled enviroment?

The stave is 61", Art. I figured to do sort of a pyramidal and kind of patterened as a cross between my "It" bow (from my avatar, that got crunched), and my Dano Gren bow (both Osages) that i like so well.

I layed out a rough plan, (since I know it'll be coming off most likely - at least once more - LOL). About 1 3/8" at fades tapering to 5/8" at the ends (for now - they'll probably wind up closer to 1/2") - and then I'll be flexible. One limb looks pretty good, the other looks like it may have about 4 or 5 knots to deal with. Only one end has very much to come off the sides. Does any of that sound "reas-able", old friend?

Oh, yes, the stave has been in the house ever since Linc sent it to me (aprox. 2 yrs).

I think that pyramid design is a very good choice Bernie. It's cirular drawn profile allows for a bit longer draw for shorter bows IMO. I like to keep the outer third pretty stiff or even flipped myself.

With you stave being inside it can still have uneven MC if it's been in an upright position. If so then rough your bow out and lay flat for a week or so to even out the MC from end to end. Of course, if stored horizonally, you're good to go.

And since you're work with a full length stave you'll have to deal with uneven limb working properties (much of this stuff I'm sure you know). My firm belief is to "build the bow as it stands in the tree". The cleaner stronger trunk wood being the lower limb.

Yeh, Art, even though I said the stave (in the sectional pics) had the large (trunk) end at the top, it's actually the other way around in those pics (I'll have corrected that in that post), and I intend to make it so that (bottom of the tree and pics) will be the bottom, cleaner limb and end of the bow. The top (the small, upper end) is the one that may have knots in the way. Am I thinking right, in regards to your last paragraph referances?

I'll have to try that about leaving the outer third a little stiffer. You can see in my avatar that it didn't work out that way with "It" (though she was a sweet shooter) but I think my Dano bow may be a little stiffer ( and it also is a sweet shooter).  I'll have to take a look at one of my FDs with that bow.

(I think I better go to bed - I'm getting a headache now      ;)   )

Oh yeah, the stave has been stored vertical - even though I know better and/or should rotate it monthly as with verticle hanging bows, (as you instructed me back when). So, I will let it lay horizontal for a week after roughing it out, and before proceeding, right? Right. (I have 3 others I better lay down in there also    :rolleyes:   .)

You're correct about the butt ends Bernie. Most often its fairly easy to tell how a stave/billets/boards was oriented in the tree. A tree trunk is tapered and so will it's growth rings. Growth ring's radius is larger/flatter at the butt end vs the top.

uh-huh, that's 'zactly how she looks, Art. Looks like it probably was part of a rather smallish Osage tree.

Smaller trees makes stronger bows Bernie. Or at least I think they do......Art

Listen to ArtB, I must agree with everything he's said so far. As soon as I get a stave worked down through the bark and sapwood where I can see what I've got to work with. I'll try to get rid of as much wood from the sides as possible to make the rings go down much quicker. I don't like doing all that work for nothing, and put that energy and time to better use elsewhere.

BTW- Your bowyers ruler went out last Friday, so you should have it soon.

Looking good Bernie, keep up the good work. I'll check in now and then to see where your at.

Yep - as I said before (somewhere in these threads), Art's my hero - not to mention a very good friend -        :)    The "laminated" Bowyer's rule arrived today, Cris, just sent you a PM about a half hour ago. Thank you very much (nice one).

Art, I almost added to my last post (about the stave being from a smallish tree), "or a limb," but decided  not to go out on that particular limb      :D   . However, today Ruddy and I, putting our headbones together, decided there is a good chance that is exactly the case - but we may still be all wet - wouldn't be the first time.

Ruddy had seen my posts from yesterday and called me early this AM. Since we hadn't got together for a while, and I was wrassling with getting "into" this stave, he asked why I didn't bring it up there and we'd double-team it. Since I am a very sociable rascal, and wasn't too pleased with the way my bow layout (from last night) was showing up, plus all the knots I was running into, I took him up on the offer.

Rudy looked it over and only found one side, of one limb outline, a little off. he did agree it was not standing out too well. So, we erased the lines and redid it, with the correction, and marked the knots better. Then between us we hogged the sides, with a draw knife, where we could, and did some file work with a farrier's rasp (and a smaller rasp) between a few of the knots. In case you hadn't guessed it, friend ruddy has more "Oooomph!" behind his efforts than this ol' hoss does - he's speedier too. We got a good start on it and most all that is left now (to remove from the sides) is rasp work between the knots and perhaps some finessing around them, with a cabinet scrapper. I can do that here at home, so I thanked Ruddy and left - with the generous loan of a bending form he made, for later. We did discover a lot of horazontal pinknots on the sides that could turn into trouble makers. That is also what made us decide the stave could be actually a tree limb - perhaps      ;)     .

I took  a couple of pics after I got home (and before I did/do any more work. I was hoping to show y'all the layout (and some of the knots) better in them - but I'm not sure it worked until I see the review.

Full Stave back:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM011.jpg)

Close up of top limb:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM012.jpg)

Close up of side of same limb tip and it's side-knots:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM013.jpg)

The outline shows up a little in the middle pic, if you look close - but it shows up as a real good guide for me now. More after I finish up the side work - a day or so for me probably - LOL.

I guess by now it's plain to see that both Rudy and I are now curious as to whether anybody works side knots (I don't see any on any of my bows), or do I have the beginning of a burn pile here, guys?

bernie, i think i gave you a good start. we'll just have to look at it as an experiment. you are not alone in this. if it has to be we'll all get our hands and eyes in on this and make it happen. it looks like a good challenge to me. keep up with the pics talk to ya soon . ruddy

It could be a limb stave Bernie but it's growth ring's rate of taper doesn't reflect that. Limbs most often have a greater rate of taper than the tree's trunk.

Those side knots shouldn't present any problems. They run out at an angle from the stave's center and as you narrow the side profile you'll have cleaner belly wood to work with.

Well That sounds very encouraging, Art, so I'll just "continue to march" (actually did a little last night, on one side, of one limb), and we'll see what becomes of them. If needed I'll try calling on the spirit of Houdini and see if they'll disappear -       :goldtooth:    

Thanks again, for your valuable insight, Art.

Yes, Ruddy, you certainly did help me clear a sort of "mental roadblock" and get me to "gnawing away" at this stave, and I appreciate your time and help.

OK (besides some other things I had to do) I got to work on my stave today and it went pretty well.

One side of two limbs taken down with a tiny amount of Draw knife work, a goodly amount with various rasps, and some with a cabinet Scraper:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM014.jpg)

Second side of one limb done and one side of the other one left to go:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM015.jpg)

Decided to see (while working on last side with Farriers Rasp) to see if I could take my first timed self pic (my wife was busy with the new pup). As you can see I didn't realize I needed to face a tad more towards camera for tool to show - LOL:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM016.jpg)

I was ready to finish up with the cabinet scrapper so figured I'd try one more timed self pic - a little better outcome:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM017.jpg)

Here is the stave with sides taken down (handle and fades not shaped). Next session I'll take the belly down some and then chase the back a tad more and see how it comes out. Looking a little more like a bow shape now(?):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM018.jpg)

Hi Bernie! Good to see you making bows. It's good fun. It keeps me off the streets. Bring it up. I'll help you.  :)  jawge

My sister would sure pitch in with you, trying to convince me to make a trip up there, jawge, but I fear it's not in the cards - especially while it's winter time - LOL. Thanks for the offer though, and you are definitely right - anyone who doesn't at least give making a bow a try, is sure missing a bunch of life's available joys (and frustrations    ;) ).

It's 15 deg right now, Bernie, and it is supposed to warm up to the 40's. But it is nice and warm inside my shop. It is heated. Bernie, since you can't come up. There is an osage buildalong or 2 on my site.  :)  Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

Brrrrrrrrrrrr, sorry about that, friend. Actually i have your site "Bookmarked", jawge, but haven't been there in a while (I hate to admit). Thanks for the reminder about the Osage bow Build-a-longs.    :thumbsup:

Today I was pretty much at the point where I need to let the stave stay horizontal for a week or so, though I've also kept it that way for a couple days now anyway. However, Before I hold up altogether I decided to take most of the rough (heartwood) off the belly, to preclude splinters in the hands, and allow the moisture content to stabilize, as suggested, easier. I also did a tad more work on the back but only with a scraper. Here are some pics of how she looks now.

The Belly with the majority of the rough heartwood removed (just a bunch of fiberous junk), with light drawknife work and a scraper. Proposed bottom limb at the left in these pics:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM019.jpg)

I took this picture of the side/edge just to show the depth still left:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM020.jpg)

Next three pics are of the back, in sections, from left/bottom to right/top after the scraper work - these colors are still baffling me as far as a ring goes, I'm afraid, though I guess it does look a little better:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM021.jpg)

The brush was under the stave to make it lay level for the pics:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM021b.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM021c.jpg)

You can see in the center pic that I still have left the handle and fades just marked but not edged, or even scraped any further on the back. Thanks for looking.

I love all the knots & character in that stave.  Looks like quite a challenge, but definitely worth it in the end.  Good Luck!

I'm hoping, Koch.

I had meant to also post pics of the ends but forgot to take them last night. Here they are now - better late than never. I'll probably need to take the back down just a tad more - carefully, before I go to work on the belly.

Bottom (1 1/8' x 15/16"):

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM022.jpg)

Top (7/8" x 3/4"):

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM023.jpg)

Note: The florescent lights made them a little yellower but I guess that's OK for Osage - LOL.
.................................

After taking care of this post, I went and read jawge's two Osage builds on his web site. A lot of valuable info there and great review to read every now and then.

From your pics Bernie, doesn't look like you're down to a single growth ring from end to end, yet? Perhaps you finished that after you posted the pics.?

Probably by the time you get 'er bending (floor tillered) you will have equalled the MC out enough to procede to your tillering board.

LOL - I'm not so sure I do either, vb    :confused:   .

I don't really think I am yet, Art (and I know the handle/fades area isn't yet but I'll get that in line with the rest of the back next time I attack it). I keep hoping, each time I scrape on it a little, that the look of it will change and give me a better
indication but it doesn't seem to be changing much for me, so far.

Did some more (a fair amount) of scraping on the back. Took these two pics, one from above (a kitchen step ladder - LOL). It does look more like it might be one ring but still the patterns are weird (to me).

From Above(the flash washed out the center a bit):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM024.jpg)

From the end (more the actual colors):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM024b.jpg)

Can't really tell for sure Burnie but looks like that discoloration is from violated rings. Can you give us a close up look see?

Good pics, Bernie. Although I'm not very experienced with osage at all, the back does look odd. Keep it goin' so I can learn more.
Stan

I'll do my best, red hill.

Art I will take another series of close-ups along the stave length. They seem to look that way to me too - except they keep coming and going without very deep scraping at all though. I guess that could be because of the thinness of the rings and not being used to seeing that. I'll take & post some pics as soon as it gets light - maybe even do them outside. It's driving me bananas -       :banghead:     (Not really, I'm enjoying it except I'd really like to see a nice "clear" back like I'm used to in/on an Osage.) Wonder if sanding would be better than scraping       :confused:   We'll see what the close-ups show y'all.

Wonder if it could be from bug spraying (while it was in Linc's woodpile). The worm holes did not go very deep under the bark and no worms were still in it, of course - too old.

OK - it's a little foggy this AM but I think the close-ups came out ok. I hope good enough to help folks see what the status of the back is. The top pic is the bottom of the stave, 3rd pic is handle/fades area (unshaped), and the last is the top of stave and top tip (hopefully):

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM025.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM025b.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM025c.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM025d.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM025e.jpg)

Those new pics help a lot Bernie. That discolorationg is for sure from ring violation. If you can work it out in the natural light you will be more successful in catching that one single ring you need going from end to end. A tall order you got there even for the best of us.

WOW - guess I better just use steel wool, and put all my other tools out of reach for now -    :D  

Oh well, more fun than real folks, huh? Thanks for the look-see, Art. I'll get 'er right yet, if I don't run out of wood first -    ;)

Bernie, I'm just seeing this. You are doing good so far. I know Ruddy has been a help. He catches on quick! d;^)
 A little trick I use with thin ringed osage is to find the very top ring amoung the managerie of rings and trace it's outline with a bold pencil line. This will help you remove one ring at a time and will help to keep it from being so confusing. Once you get the top ring off mark out the next and so on until you are down to one continuous ring for the back.

Yes, he does, Pat, and fortunately he "remembers" what he catches on to - LOL.

That sounds like a good and sensible big "little trick", buddy. Is there also a trick for making sure the one you find is   the  top ring, or is it not as critical just as long as it is   one  of the top ones? I do understand that it would, of course, be best if you could do it in sequence (sort of like the layers of a violated onion), so that you don't accidentally violate another ring.

Wow Bernie. Those are some tight rings.  Watching, reading, and learning....

That's what's it's all about, isn't it Bel? I enjoy those parts as much as the end result - almost    :D .

I swear, I think this stave is trying it's best to turn me into a crazy old man - wait a minute, I'm already one of those    :D

Seriously though, no mater what I do, I don't make much progress. I've even tried scraping with a single-edged razor blade and very little pressure. I pick out, and go at, an "Island" and just about the time it looks like it might be going to disappear, another striation, whorl, or island will show up where it was. I fear that if I get too aggressive I will soon find myself out of the desirable thin rings, and into the wider rings (seen on the "End" pics earlier). That might be a suitable solution too but it will not leave me very much for tillering, and leaving wood around knots on the belly, etc. What really gets to me is just that I can't seem to clear this back up. It's really interesting looking but I know it's not "right" - yet!  Oh well, never say die - just letting y'all know I'm still gnawing away at this "lovely"    :goldtooth:    :dunno:

Don't know what to tell you Bernie! Has Ruddy had the chance to look it over? Any chance it's back  can be flattened and backed? Art

Ruddy and I do plan to get together over it again some time this week, if possible. We were going to Sat. but other things came up. Backing is a possibility but not something I particularly want to do to it, except perhaps as a last resort. Just not my cup of tea right now. I was mostly just letting folks now where "she and I" stand at this point - and venting a little, I guess - LOL. Thanks for looking anyhow.

Friend Ruddy eyeballin' my troublesome stave in his shop and encouraging an "island" to disappear using a goose-neck cabinet scraper, today:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/0313/ber643b/SM026.jpg)

Yep, I tooled up to Ruddy's this afternoon and we put our heads together to help each other solve problems of frustrations with our chosen "fun-time" hobbies - you all know how that goes, I'm sure      ;)   What would we do without friends who are willing to help?

I solved some troubles he was having with using a Flemish Twist string jig to make strings for his bows, and he helped me see better (with his eyes) that I'm not really going crazy - there really are a bazillion various level islands of rings showing up on the back of my (hopeful) bow. He assured me he is seeing the same thing I am but much clearer, and more sensibly, with his better eyesight. I wasn't sure enough about what I thought I was seeing to be sure exactly what it was and/or how to make it get any better. I think, with his help I now have a better handle on it and may be able to work it - slow, easy and with cautious patience -   :D  

If not, like I told Ruddy, I will crank up the riding mower, shave the back off the stubborn stave, and see how it likes them jelly beans -       (not really     :D  )

While Ruddy layed out his new String Jig, I followed his example and was able to do a little cleaning up on the stave back also - we only did a little but it's a start, and something i will attempt to continue.

My eyes are my biggest handicap also Bernie. Why, once upon a time I could split a pencil mark right down the center with a chainsaw  :readit:  . Now I can't even get the saw started  :(  .

Really nice to have good help when you need it. Good on Ruddy! You ought to buy that boy a whole case of bee.......ah, jelly beans  ;)  !

What pencil mark  :help:    :help:    :banghead:

Oh no! Memory gone along with eyesight too!!!   :saywhat:   ...........Art

LOL - y'all are right, all the way around. What were we talking about now    :confused:  Oh yeh, Ruddy's brown pencil holder on his workbench there - kinda neat, the way it's made to look like a bottle, huh?

bernie, im always glad to help. i made the rest of the string jig up today. i even attempted a string. all i can say is   :banghead:    :banghead:    :banghead:

You'll get it, bud. The thing to do though, since we are both available, and both have the "stuff", is to make one (together) each on our own jig at the same time, a step at a time. You just a bit after me (you know, it's  known as demonstration/application type instruction), and after that it'll all fall in place for you (easier with each one you do). We'll get together again (real soon) and do that. Gotta go to J'ville and Lejeune tomorrow though, for prescriptions, etc.

BTW - I ordered a (3) set of the thin Cabinet Scrapers from 3 rivers today, to beef up my selections. They should be here early next week, judging from past service.

Bernie, if you ever need something a little easier on the ol' hands look into the wood spoon carving tool. Made mine myself, added a much longer handle for more leverage..........Art

My hands do tend to cramp when using the cabinet scrapers - (why I had to give up knapping too). I'll have to see if i can find something on that and take a look-see. Thanks, Art.

Would this be what you refer to?

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/301.jpg)

Blade Blank:

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/301blank.jpg)

(For info, not inexpensive, what good tools are; just the blank blade runs 30 dollars where I found these pics - knife runs close to 50 to 75. Sure looks like it would be a handy tool to have around though.)

That's it Bernie. Put a 12-14" handle on it and then you really have a tool that's easy to use. Made mine from a small file and added a little more twist to the blade.......Art

I believe it, Art but you are "craftier" than I - LOL. I can handle the handle (pun intended) part OK but I'm not much at working steel. I'll keep my eyes open at the "sales" I haunt, and, if I don't run across one, I'll break down and order one of those pretty blanks. Really looks neat (and useful).

I use the exact same pencil holder Rudy does Bernie!

LOL - There's a lot of those going around these days, P D    ;)

bernie, you aint givin away my secrets to success are ya   :D

LOL - Who, me?    :D

I have found that too many "secrets" can sometimes change the outcome of certain bows.......

:biglaugh:   I've heard that too, from a number of bow building friends    ;)

you got to know when... to quit workin on the bow   :laughing:

Dang good advice Ruddy!  :biglaugh:    :biglaugh:

Either that or have an unlimited number of back up staves    ;)

So, are y'all talking or working?   d;^)

Oooops! Uhhhh - 5 Min. break, Pat -    :D

The buzzer went off 2 minutes ago Bernie.........GET BACK TO WORK OR YOUR FIRED!!!!!

Oh-oh - does work going on inside my headbone count?

Actually, I am waiting for my thin cabinet scrapers from 3 Rivers to get here (early this week, I hope).
Ruddy's seemed to work well for me on my "thin-skinned" bow of this thread, the other day.

In the meantime, I am messing around with a very narrow,knotty belly split from the Osage stave that Ruddy is making a bow for me from. It keeps me busy and in practice but don't know if it will work out - even as a kids bow. However, I am taking pics, along the way, and may post them later in any case.

3 Rivers is still on the ball. My 3 thin (.004), curved cabinet scrapers, that I ordered Thurs PM, arrived today. So now I'll go back to work on my troublesome, thin ringed stave back that this thread is about (and hope to show some desirable progress soon).