I'm just flexing my grey matter on how to make an Osage selfbow a bit faster, and was wondering if any of you have ever used some faster woods paired up with Osage from staves to put some zip in your tip! If ya know what I mean?
I've read alot about IPE and Boo in various forms, action boo, bamboo, IPE from wood flooring, ect.
Have any of you all tried this with any success?
I'm thinking along the lines of simply gluing a piece of faster wood on the back or belly of a piece of Osage while adding some R/D to it while it's being glued into a form of some design. Then shaping and tillering it into a nice compact R/D longbow with possibly adding a different color wood for the riser portion.
Of course all of this is subject to change, just throwing some ideas around.
Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, experiences good or bad are greatly appreciated.
if u want ur osage selfbow to be faster than you need as little mass on ur tips as possible...narrow outer limbs increase speed.
I try to go down to 1/4" nocks
SEMO I was wondering how and IPE Ibeam osage would do with a hickory back myself. I just need to get the first Osage out of the way. And a few more bow under my belt before I go and get too Crazy.
One wood isn't necessarily faster than another. The heavier a wood is the smaller the bow can be to achieve a certain weight. If you are laminating woods together it is no longer a selfbow, but a composite bow. Boo and Osage is hard to beat as an all around good combination for a composite bow.
That's kinda what I was thinking Rainman, but I've read some horror stories about guys using bamboo. Things such as hinges, frets, cracks, splits, delamination, ect.
How worried or reluctant should I be to try it with Osage? I mean, if I can work my way around an Osage stave just fine and make a nice shootable bow from it, which I've already proved to myself. Do you think I would have any problems with adding a strip of boo and working that into a nice bow?
i think if you really want something fast , youre looking at a molle...thats the one with half the limp really narrow right? thats the one im talkin about.
from what i have read , light colored osage , along with really thin rings , might get you a little more snap .
-hov
Hickory backed osage can make a very nice, fast shooting bow with the proper design...and it is more reliable than boo. IMO
Well that would be awesome cause Hickory is all over the place down here where I'm at, right along with Elm, Ash, and Mulberry but I just can't bring myself to cut down a mulberry tree.
I love to eat the berries off them and so do the wildlife. I'd consider it sacrilege about the same as cutting down a persimmon tree. Too much value in just leaving them be.
I think maybe your jumping to some conclusions. Osage isn't any slower than the other woods you mentioned. ie, the other woods (bamboo is actually grass) are not faster than osage.
Do a search for "bamboo backed osage" or "bbo". Many, many thousands of these have been made in the last decade or so. Ipe gained some traction a few years ago as a more available and cheaper alternative to osage for bamboo composites after Dean Torges put out his video "Hunting the Bamboo Backed Bow". It is second rate to osage. Another second string wood used as an alternative is bloodwood.
Hickory is a good backing for bamboo but doesn't have the same great combination of tension strength and low mass that bamboo has.
Light colored osage is generally inferior to darker colored osage because it has a lower latewood to earlywood ratio and therefore is more like good hickory than good osage.
Exotic designs like the "Molle" are interesting but more difficult to make correctly. Made poorly, they are no faster than anything else.
I highly recommend you read the Bow design chapter in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible Volume 1.
...and then the back up performance chapter in TBIV.
Ipe 2nd rate to osage for composites AHAHAHAHA that's a funny one John :)
If anything when it comes to composites Ipe has a leg up on the old sage. For same dimension bows a BBO will take more set than a BBI. I can stress a BBI a lot more than I can a BBO without losing performance.
Now that being said I much prefer to work osage. Dust and splinters aren't as bad as ipe.
Having worked with osage, ipe, and beefwood I would say the tropicals are a little stronger in compression than osage, but if they are designed right I dont know how you could say any one of them is better than the other. I do prefer workin with osage simply because its a native wood but I definitely do not think the tropicals are second string to osage.JMO
Guys, please don't misinterpret the question I'm asking. I'm not looking to replace Osage.
As a matter of fact, I love Osage, I love to cut my own Osage, I've made all my bows from Osage, and I even sell Osage.
I'm simply looking for a wood to "Pair it up with" to get some more speed out of a bow that I made myself, with limited means, and without lots of fiberglass, epoxy, ect.
Just 2 pieces of wood, glued together, then shape a nice bow out of it. That's all I'm thinking about doing.
I'll probably go with Pat's advice on the Hickory. I need to get another one down for firewood anyway, so I'll just get some bow staves while I'm at it.
Or better yet, I've had email conversations with a guy on here that knows his Osage extremely well and he tells me that I can get laminated bow performance from an Osage selfbow but using two simple tools.
A caul and a heat gun.
Watch for a future caul build. :thumbsup:
If youre lookin for speed then glue a piece of hickory on it and get the last 10 inches of your limbs as skinny as possible. I built a hickory backed beefwood bow last year with tips 5/16" wide and it shoots as hard as any trad bow I've ever shot.
The older I get, the more I sound like a Grumpy Old Man. I will offer this up. Make lots of bows. Make lots of different kinds of bows. Experiment and learn. BBOs are awesome. HBOs are awesome. Ipe and bloodwood and beefwood are awesome. They all make wonderful bows. Use them all and show us what you find. The best bow is the one you are working on now. There are many paths to the Promised Land :)
I highly recommend Dean Torges' video "Hunting the Bamboo Backed Bow" (bowyersedge.com). You will learn so much from that GOM.
"There are many paths to the Promised Land"
words to live by.
QuoteOriginally posted by okie64:
If youre lookin for speed then glue a piece of hickory on it and get the last 10 inches of your limbs as skinny as possible. I built a hickory backed beefwood bow last year with tips 5/16" wide and it shoots as hard as any trad bow I've ever shot.
I do believe that will be my next project, but I will have to find some seasoned hickory in order to get to work on it fairly soon. Otherwise, I may just get some now and hot box it?
Not sure yet.
I like the hickory as well. Its very affordable and shoots hard. Plus it doesnt require all the prep bamboo seems to take, or special adhesive's. My latest HBH is much faster and harder shooting than any HB REDOAK I have messed with. I will be starting my first HBO this week, Im curious to see how well this combo fairs. I have heard mothing but good. Keep us posted SEMO.
Thanks, I will but you may get started on yours before I do?
I need to get the bow swap longbow done first, then I have one sold that I need to build.
I may do the HBO in between and see how it turns out? It might be a good candidate for the bow swap? Who knows.
I just want to be sure it's solid before I turn it over to somebody else, which means I'd have to put quite a few arrows through it first.
I'm rather excited to get on it, but gotta get some hickory first.
chris iv made some fast bows with ipe and osage backin and osage /boo backin... beefwood aka bullett wood and osage are on my to do list i r /d them them
i used thinner lams glued into a r/d form i had a ipe /osage doin well over 200 a mojam 2 years ago brock
That's impressive Brock, we will have lots to talk about in the near future, so expect to get some questions headed your way. lol
sounds good bro soons i get off this job and moved into my new place and settled well have some chats hopin ya make it to mojam this year so we can visit brock
I'm gonna do my best to make it there, hope I do.
Looking forward to it!
QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
The older I get, the more I sound like a Grumpy Old Man. I will offer this up. Make lots of bows. Make lots of different kinds of bows. Experiment and learn. BBOs are awesome. HBOs are awesome. Ipe and bloodwood and beefwood are awesome. They all make wonderful bows. Use them all and show us what you find. The best bow is the one you are working on now. There are many paths to the Promised Land :)
I highly recommend Dean Torges' video "Hunting the Bamboo Backed Bow" (bowyersedge.com). You will learn so much from that GOM.
You have no idea how true that is John.
I start getting bored with the same old tried and true designs and start trying to mix it up.
I'm not above trying anything if I think it will up the performance of one of my own hand made bows. Each one kind of takes on a life of it's own with it's unique character, but all the same principles apply.
I need to add some bending into my arsenal and maybe a few different woods also, because Osage is all I have worked with up to this point.
That heat gun and caul setup is going to speed up your osage self bows just by adding reflex. Also, refine your tiller, thin your tips, and don't over-stress the wood as you tiller it.
John