Here she is so far...just about finished floor tillering, I think I need to get her bending a little more. Then glue the riser and back it...think I am going to back it with burlap. (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/0124012112.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/0124011955.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/0121012118.jpg)
With a backing like burlap you can back it anytime. It won't effect the shape or tiller of a bow. Looking good so far!
That last pic is older than the first two pics...the tips are actually thicker in the third pic...in the last two which are the most recent my tips are already down to 3/8".
I like the shape.
You are almost there just go slow and work the limbs alot everytime you remove wood.
1. Never pull more than your intended weight
2. Never pull farther than you intended draw length
3. Never pull past a bad spot, hinge
it looks like you have a lot of grain runout in your last picture; I'd back it soon before proceeding further to avoid having a catastrophe involving those. You don't know when it might snap, it'd be safer to have a backing on it. So far, so good. Start long string tillering and go slow; if you take it off, remove wood, and put it back on to the same draw length, and it still has the same incorrect shape, it should be obvious not to pull further. Work out everything about the tiller before pulling further.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Lipinski:
if you take it off, remove wood, and put it back on to the same draw length, and it still has the same incorrect shape, it should be obvious not to pull further. Work out everything about the tiller before pulling further.
John...let me make sure I understand correctly: set up the long string tiller and see how it bends, identify the areas that need work, take it off the and remove wood, put it back in the tiller but do not proceed in draw length until the problems are worked out and pulling evenly before increasing to the next inch of draw?
bingo! I know there's always that little part of your head that says, "c'mon... just pull it an inch farther..." You shouldn't listen to that voice (Admittedly, a little hard at times) and as has been said before, work the wood by pulling it to where it's properly tillered a few times before rechecking
There are buildalongs on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
lookin good flyboy give me sum time for those pics of my tillering set up you asked about, ill do it
Going to get the backing done and riser glued on tomorrow. I am going to do the backing in burlap, I don't have enough burlap to go the full length of the bow, so can I just overlap it and if so what is the minimum of overlap?
QuoteOriginally posted by Flyboy718:
Going to get the backing done and riser glued on tomorrow. I am going to do the backing in burlap, I don't have enough burlap to go the full length of the bow, so can I just overlap it and if so what is the minimum of overlap?
Change: Looks like I won't be using burlap, for some reason all mine disappeard...may be using some old blue jeans.
Snagged me a piece of cypress to make my handle out of!
Is it ok to use a piece of wood for the riser that is thicker than 3/4"? The cypress I got is a little more than an inch thick.
Got my 1" thick cypress riser glued on last night...I should have some time to shape it on Wednesday.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/redoakbow.jpg)
Jason,
Which side is your belly and which is the back? In your last picture, it looks like you've either glued the handle onto the back of the bow, or you're removing wood from the back rather than the belly.
I attached it to the belly...if the belly looks a little flat, I took most of the "crown" shape out of it when reducing it. The back is un-altered.
Began shaping the riser last night.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/0131012224.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/0131012223.jpg)
Just wondering...should I have used tip overlays? The poorfolkbow build along did not...just wondering if it is too late for me to do it and if not what type of glue to use?
You don't have to put an overlay on...its up to you really. I used TBIII for wooden overlays and epoxy for others. I read guys using super glue also.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave Bowers:
You don't have to put an overlay on...its up to you really. I used TBIII for wooden overlays and epoxy for others. I read guys using super glue also.
Is it too late for me to put them on at this point?
no. you can add tip overlays after your bow is built and shot a few times if you want. it won't affect tiller if thats what your worried about.
don
looking at the pics I think your fine
Don...I was worried about that...and Dave thanks...I think I will put some on, I just think it looks nice and will re-inforce the tips...I have some more cypress to match with the riser, think it will be ok to use that or some red oak scraps?
i think you should use the cypress. its always nice when the handle and tips match. i have a boo backed osage with cherry handle and cherry tips.
don
when you get ready for your tips. sand the tip flat (glue area). then take a piece of sandpaper and put the tip on the sandpaper, abrasive side down and sand the spot where your tip will be glued. doing this will assure that the bow and tip will be an exact match and lay perfectly flat. follow me?
QuoteOriginally posted by don s:
when you get ready for your tips. sand the tip flat (glue area). then take a piece of sandpaper and put the tip on the sandpaper, abrasive side down and sand the spot where your tip will be glued. doing this will assure that the bow and tip will be an exact match and lay perfectly flat. follow me?
Yeah, just sand the limb tip and the tip that will be glued to the limb tip.
I didn't do that well enough with my riser and it has a couple areas on the edge of the riser that I need to take a tooth pick and work some glue in.
Now I am thinking of doing horn tip overlays...how hard would it be for a beginner to do this? What kind of glue for horn and do a cypress / horn combo or just horn only?
you can put the cypress horn combo on or just horn. if you do the combo follow what i suggested before. sand horn flat then do a sandwich with horn and cypress with sandpaper abrasive side down on cypress and horn on top so horn glue surface matches cypress glue surface. then cypress on top of sand paper with abrasive side on bow tip so those two glue surfaces match perfectly with no gaps. some people my think it's anal but if your going to put in all the effort for a nice bow, it's a small step to take for a nice tight fit and great glue line. imo. you can also use this method when glueing a handle on your bow.
don
Don beat me to it, but i horn, cypress would be sweet.
QuoteOriginally posted by don s:
you can put the cypress horn combo on or just horn. if you do the combo follow what i suggested before. sand horn flat then do a sandwich with horn and cypress with sandpaper abrasive side down on cypress and horn on top so horn glue surface matches cypress glue surface. then cypress on top of sand paper with abrasive side on bow tip so those two glue surfaces match perfectly with no gaps. some people my think it's anal but if your going to put in all the effort for a nice bow, it's a small step to take for a nice tight fit and great glue line. imo. you can also use this method when glueing a handle on your bow.
don
Don, I missed it before, but I get it now! Actual piece of sandpaper sandwiched in between the bow and a tip overlay! Nice, I never would have thought of that, I wish I would have done that with my riser now...Thanks!
take your time. nothing causes mistakes more than rushing.
don
Ok, going with lenin to back the bow with...one layer or two of lenin?
you should only need one layer of linen to back your bow.
don
QuoteOriginally posted by don s:
you should only need one layer of linen to back your bow.
don
LOL...I got like 3 yards from wally world...should last me a while!
QuoteOriginally posted by don s:
take your time. nothing causes mistakes more than rushing.
don
He ain't lying...
Put me a layer of glue on last night...linen is going on tonight.
Got my linen backing on last night...going to get it trimmed up tonight maybe. I will get some pics up soon. Going to make a tillering string next and a tillering stick.
sounds like it is comming along nicely
Get some more pics up if you can :thumbsup:
Here are the latest pics of the bow with the handle fades and the backing.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/handle3.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/handle4.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/linenbacking.jpg)
Looking nice, keep the pics coming.
Trimmed off the excess linen and glue this morning...learned a lesson; I will tape the sides of the bow with masking tape next time I do that.
I made a tiller thing-a-ma-bob last night and a string jig, so I started tillering today...critique please! That string was my first I made and boy do I have a lot of work to do, it is way too long for the 62" recurve I was making it for, so I am using it as a tiller string. I got to 12" and it started feeling pretty stiff, was thinking of stopping here for now and shave of some to decrease the poundage a good bit?
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller2.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller3.jpg)
12" on the long string equals only about 2" of tip movement in your pics. Once you get to 8" of tip movement go to a short string and a 3" to 4" brace height. At that point you can see how the string is tracking and if both limbs are bending evenly and together.
Your bend looks good so far so get it to bend a little more. Don't forget to exercise the limbs well between wood removal, no matter how little or much you take off.
Do you know the draw weight where the bow stands now?
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
12" on the long string equals only about 2" of tip movement in your pics. Once you get to 8" of tip movement go to a short string and a 3" to 4" brace height. At that point you can see how the string is tracking and if both limbs are bending evenly and together.
Your bend looks good so far so get it to bend a little more. Don't forget to exercise the limbs well between wood removal, no matter how little or much you take off.
Do you know the draw weight where the bow stands now?
Thanks Pat...I have no idea where it is weight wise now...going to pick up a bathroom scale today and find out. She is getting pretty stiff at that 12" mark and I am going keep it there and shave some more pounds there. If I had to take a wild guess at what she is pulling now I would say 40ish.
Be sure the bathroom scale is not digital!
Shorten your long string so it is just long enough to go from tip to tip. If need be, untwist one loop and tie a bowyers knot(timber hitch) in that end. You can use this string as an adjustable tiller string.
Latest pics...have haven't adjusted the string, she is pulling 23# @ 14" I haven't measured the string so I don't know if that factors anything...it is the same length I have been using. (Pat I just read your reply, I will do that next) What bothers me though is the string follow only on one limb and it is 1" on one and almost none on the other, what is the deal?
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller4.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller5.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller6.jpg)
You are overstressing that limb more. One reason to get the string shorter is the angle it pulls with the extra long string gives a false reading and the leverage makes it easy to pull too far.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
You are overstressing that limb more. One reason to get the string shorter is the angle it pulls with the extra long string gives a false reading and the leverage makes it easy to pull too far.
Going to tighten the string up like you said, do you think it is too late? Will the bow be ok?
You are worrying too much. Make the bow. Make the bow :)
The right limb is bending more then the left. The set will catch up. 10 rasps on the left and then bend it 30 times. Take another picture. Repeat until they are even. I always feel more comfortable once I get it braced. The long string pretty much just tells you they are bending and even. Weight measurements are almost useless assuming your initial layout was correct. They really just tell me when it is time to string it. Get it on a low brace, maybe 2" and carry on.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
You are worrying too much. Make the bow. Make the bow :)
The right limb is bending more then the left. The set will catch up. 10 rasps on the left and then bend it 30 times. Take another picture. Repeat until they are even. I always feel more comfortable once I get it braced. The long string pretty much just tells you they are bending and even. Weight measurements are almost useless assuming your initial layout was correct. They really just tell me when it is time to string it. Get it on a low brace, maybe 2" and carry on.
Thanks John, will do!
Put her on a low brace 2" maybe a little less and this is the results...string follow is a lot better this time around, I think she is bending pretty good all the way around, I used the tillering gizmo a few times. Just for the record...I have no idea what I am doing and whether I am doing it right, the only thing I know to do is to keep shaving wood, I feel like I need to do another shave and then try to get it on what the REAL brace height. For what its worth the last pic is pulled to 12" that is with just a taught string...not braced at 2" like earlier and she pulled 22#. I am shooting for 40ish at 30" no more than 43#. Critiques welcomed! She sure is a nice little bow! The string is tracking right down the pipe and she is nice and sturdy.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/braced2inches.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/braced2inchesagain.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/stringtrack-partialbrace.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tiller2-21-11.jpg)
Haven't done anymore tillering, just been working on my flemish strings trying to get that mastered. Anyways, got one made up and was able to get the bow braced at 5". How does she look?
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/5inchbrace.jpg)
Nice! I've never made a string before. Now, if you have a bow square, you can make marks at certain distances along each limb and measure the distance between the limb and the string. That way, you can get an exact reading when you compare how much each limb is bending.
Does it look like I need it to bend more starting at the fades to about 2" out from there? And does the right limb look just a little stronger for some reason?
Yea, it looks like it would be good to start your bend earlier. Good eye. Your right limb could be stronger... that's why you should measure the distance between the string and limb at equal spots on each limb and compare them. Now that you have a string on it, why eye-ball it and guess...
This was the tiller on my first. After that picture, I did some work on that right limb because it wasn't bending as much as the left. Now they're even. Not perfect, but it still shoots nice at 45#.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/BuckMstr98/P1010511-1.jpg)
Got to give it a good pull Flyboy to see much, dont go past your intended draw weight however. Just by eyeballing your limb thickness I would guess you dont have much material left before you start building a light weight bow, go slow. Just my observation's. Take Johns advice and just build it. I know the feeling of trying to be sure your first one works out. Put it on your tree and pull it as far as your intended draw weight will allow, then take your gizmo and run it under both limbs, it will tell you alot.
QuoteOriginally posted by PEARL DRUMS:
Got to give it a good pull Flyboy to see much, dont go past your intended draw weight however. Just by eyeballing your limb thickness I would guess you dont have much material left before you start building a light weight bow, go slow. Just my observation's. Take Johns advice and just build it. I know the feeling of trying to be sure your first one works out. Put it on your tree and pull it as far as your intended draw weight will allow, then take your gizmo and run it under both limbs, it will tell you alot.
You hit it on the head about making sure it works out right...worried about pulling it too far though. I still have a lot of wood left at the fades what is the best way to remove it there, all I have is a surform and a 4way file. Would a sharp knife work?
You really need to check the weight before you string it the first time or you can seriously overstress it. You should be pulling maybe 10 pounds below your target weight at 16". If you are somewhere in that neighborhood, carry on with pulling farther.
Your tiller looks pretty good at brace. Now pull it until you see a problem or you hit your weight. In other words, pull it to 16" and check tiller. If it looks good, weight it. If you are still good on tiller, weight it again and repeat. As you get closer to target draw, get closer to target weight until they meet at that magical point where your stave becomes a bow. But it cannot have that title until you shoot it.
Tillering is complete!!!! Yay! She came out 45# at my 30" draw, just right. Now time to shape handle / arrow rest and tips.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/tillercomplete.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/minden79/mewithselfbow.jpg)
There ya go buddy! Looks nice, nice tiller. Is that one limb twisted slighty, or is the camera angle fooling me? Either way it will be fine! Betcha' cant stop now...You already have another in mind dont you?
PD, thanks man it was a lot of fun and took a long time, power tools would be nice! Yes, I do have a limb that is twisted for some reason, it did that about half way through and I don't know why...I will post some pics looking down the string and get some opinions on how to fix the twist.
I would highly recommend the tiller gizmo for anybody that is tillering a bow for the first time, I owe this tiller job to the gizmo.
that tiller looks very good...very smooth even bend all across.
Well done flyboy
The tiller looks right on to me. Well done!!!
If the limb is twisting as you draw it is because one side of the limb is thicker than the other. Run the gizmo down both sides of that limb while it is drawn and see if that doesn't show you where it is stiff.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
The tiller looks right on to me. Well done!!!
If the limb is twisting as you draw it is because one side of the limb is thicker than the other. Run the gizmo down both sides of that limb while it is drawn and see if that doesn't show you where it is stiff.
Thanks for the kind words everyone, it feels good!
Pat: Your exactly right, I started noticing it halfway through and I now realize it is because I was removing wood with it strung in my lap with a Sureform. So just slowly remove that and it will be good to go? Will I loose a little in the poundage department?
looks good flyboy cant wait to see your next one
DANGIT! Splinter came up on the first third of the bottom limb right on the edge of the outside of the limb...about 2" long and 1/8" wide. You can see the linen bulged a little and on the side of the limb see a little crack. I think it happened last night when I got a little zealous and pulled it to 30" a little too soon I heard a little sound. I have shot a few arrows with her this morning and all seems well doesn't make any sounds and I think there is not much stress there? Was thinking of maybe takings some super glue and injecting inside the little crack as best I can. Going to reduce that bottom limb and get the twist out of it and they may also help with that crack...in fact now that I think about it that might have been what caused the crack.
make sure to round all sharp edges
Super glue under the splinter and a wrap over it...and round all corners and edges.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
Super glue under the splinter and a wrap over it...and round all corners and edges.
Thanks Pat! Sounds like a good plan.
Sad news guys....Sahra had a short life, but we shot a few arras together. She was born at 6:37 PM on Saturday and died at 1:00PM Monday.
This is how it went down...I decided to shave some wood off the bottom limb on that one side of the limb to correct the twist. After doing that I drew it back several times to take set and the draw wasn't as smooth as it was before, felt ugly. I put it on the tillering tree and drew it to 28" and noticed that the bottom limb that I shaved the wood off of was bending a good bit more than the top limb. I knew at this point she was not going to be a 45# bow anymore and I was fine with that. I went to use my tillering gizmo to mark the change I needed to make in my top limb and just as I put my hand on the riser and my arm through the draw POW!!! The string slapped the under side of my right forearm and has a whelp about an inch high, the string lay slack on the ground not attached to the bow and my top limb snapped approximately 8-10" from the tip. The more I think about it, I don't think that the bow failed I think that the string slipped from the notch cut in the tiller tree...otherwise how else would the string have slapped my arm? If the limb broke the string wouldn't go up toward the riser with that kinds force like it was being dry fired...it would have gone away from the riser?? Thoughts??
Climb back on the bike.
I second Ironfist's plan. The only way to get over lost love is to rebound fast! Try again flyboy. Isnt this bow building stuff a hoot!
I will have the house to myself this weekend and the first of the next week...gonna try to get me another one done pretty quick.
sorry to hear about the loss. For a 1st bow it was really looking good and made me want to get my build started.
I think ill do a little more reading 1st tho.
QuoteOriginally posted by howdydoit:
sorry to hear about the loss. For a 1st bow it was really looking good and made me want to get my build started.
I think ill do a little more reading 1st tho.
Go ahead and dive in, don't wait...I am glad I did it, I learned a whole lot and it wasn't the bow's fault, the string slipped from the notch in my tiller tree and dry fired. Next one I will do out of hickory...just didn't really like the red oak too much.
its pretty amazing how little wood removal is needed at final tiller. Try to fix it after tillering and it all goes out of whack.
Like Jawge says you ain't making if you ain't breakin.
Don't sweet man....I break way more then I finish. Just go out get a new board and get back at it.
Jason, My dad is having three hickory trees cut down at his place in Benton in the next week or so and I told him to have the trunks cut into 6' pieces. Should get several good staves out of the lot...you can have a few if you are interested.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Byrge@home:
Jason, My dad is having three hickory trees cut down at his place in Benton in the next week or so and I told him to have the trunks cut into 6' pieces. Should get several good staves out of the lot...you can have a few if you are interested.
Sendin you a message Mike!