I've been taking a few pics so I figured I'd start my own TG Trade Bow thread.
This bow will be a 60"t/t elm static recurve. I'm planning on 50#@28". This stave is special! My friend Tom Brennan passed away a while back from a brain tumor. His son Patrick Brennan(same name as mine) gave me Tom's bow wood stash after Tom passed. I have shared some to other friends of Tom's and made a few special bows out of one or two. What better place to spread some of Tom's memory amoung my other friends here on TradGang. Tom would approve!!!
If you have a subscription to or can find a copy at the magazine rack, the new Primitive Archer Magazine(Feb, Mar 2011) has an article, by yours truely, about a complete archery set a bunch of PA guys put together to present to Patrick in Tom's honor.
...now back to the bow! Here is the halved elm log, part of the limb width reduction and the initial belly reduction.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm006.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm004.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm005.jpg)
Geeze Pat, hope you drew my name:) Very nice piece of wood my friend. But ya need to sweep that bow shop floor:)
Very fitting use for a special stave.
Look forward to seeing the progress Pat, I'm working on a 64" Elm static right now as well:)
This is a pretty clean stave and pretty straight with only one knot to deal with. I get the bow to floor tiller stage and prepare to use some heat. The last 6" or so of one limb had a crook in it that had to be straightened first...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm010.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm011.jpg)
Then to recurving the tips. This form uses a metal strap to support the outside(belly) of the recurve while bending.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm012.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm013.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm016.jpg)
I'm using my old B&D two speed heat gun set on high and olive oil for the heating process(s). You can see the oil stain in the wood where I heated. When doing a recurve like this one I oil the area to be worked well with olive oil. The support band on the form that is permanently attached at the curved end of the form is clamped to the bow. As the wood is heated I test by lightly pulling down to see if it is ready to bend and when it is I bring it down into the bend and place a clamp. Then more heat and more bending down to the form and another clamp. I allowed each heat treated area to cool for 3 or 4 hours in my 40 deg(F) basement before removing the clamps.
It's amazing what heat can do, very nice Pat. Thanks for sharing.
I did have a splinter come up in the first recurve. I had left an island of rings on the belly and I should have known better...but no worries! The tips are thick enough to where the splinter will be worked out while shaping the tip. I did soak the splinter in super glue for insurence. In the first pic you can barely see the splinter in the center of the curve where the light is reflecting...and the other pis looking from the tip. I'll post more tomorrow.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm001-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm004-1.jpg)
Nice work Pat, I'll be watching this one with much interest!!
Bert.
lookin good pat ill be watchin my kind a shop !!! wonder if ya ever got one of them copperheads in there yet ? brock
Just outside the basement, Brock. Probably one you have!
Bert, I need lessons from you. I have admired your bows since I first saw one. I static recurve(maybe a Duoflex) if I'm not mistaken, right here on TradGang.
Like I said, elm is relatively new to me. So far I like it. It works very well with heat if it holds the curves. Works well with rasp and scraper too. I don't know what species of elm this is. Tom lived in Hendersonville, NC but the wood could have come from anywhere.
It will be a learning experience for me for sure as well as others, I hope.
very cool mr pat.i have some questions but i will wait until you are finished building the bow. ruddy
awsome thread Pat. I been needing some guidance on flippin tips and I think this is just the place to get it :readit:
Stiks
This is what the swap is all about learning and sharing. Stiks it is a good thing you have started. I remember one swap on here when I fist joined the site but it was nothing like your first or second.
Pat I am sure we want wait long to see your end result.
Thanks for sharing in your learning and knowledge,
Kelly
That is going to be a real looker the way it's going, Pat, I'm gonna love seeing the static limb tips again. We had one for sale in the shop I worked at, by a mutual acquaintance of ours. My boss liked it so well that, after we sold it, he ordered one from that same fellow for himself. Haven't seen another in a long time. I'll be looking for that article in PA. I liked Tom a lot and I think Patrick is one of the finest young gentlemen I've had the pleasure of meeting - always such a positive chap to talk to/with. Can't imagine that the article, coming from you, won't be a fine tribute in itself. Good on ya.
Good (continued) luck with the bow. Somebody is going to be a happy camper, methinks.
Looks good Pat. Thanks
PatB makes some of the best bows around. I know as I have one of his bows. I got lucky in last years swap and he sent me the bow. It has truley become one of my favorite bows. I will aspire to have his quality and care that he provides his bows when building mine. PatB is a true bowyer!
Nice, being new I sure like the way you talk it through. Thanks!
Pat, What size radius does your form have? I would like to make a form like that but never really knew what size to make the curves.
great lookin bow so far pat i always check out your post lots of info thanks
Ask away Ruddy while it is fresh in both of our minds. d;^)
Kris, this it the same design as the osage bow in my avatar. I have another form for flipping tips that is not as tight of a curve.
Bernie, Patrick is a true gentleman. He has been since the day we met. My article covers that as well.
Kelly, these build along postings are great learning tools for everyone. Yours is helping lots of folks that are in the same bow building boat that you are in but look at the adversities you are having to put up with just to be able to give it a try. If that isn't encouraging to newbies I don't know what is.
Okie, I'm guessing about 8" but I never measure these things. I find a jar lid or coffee can lid or whatever that looks good to me and trace that. There is a bit of trial and error doing it that way but those lessons seem to stick better with me.
Thanks guys, I'm trying to learn a bit with this project too. I am familiar with the design but not the wood so lets see where it takes us.
Pat it looks to me like your tips are about an inch wide at this point. Right or wrong?
Kris I do this on most of the bows I build so I can make string alignments later if needed. I do the same with the handle area. These areas do not need to be finished to tiller the bow.
Plus a wider limb tip has a better chance of bending straighter so less adjustment is needed later.
Here are a few more pics. I got both limb tips bent and added super glue to the splinter. From here on out I will continueing to straighten areas that need it then get the bow to start bending. You will see in the pics that one tip is off a bit. That will have to be straightened with a little heat. I won't know much until first low brace but this preliminary work is needed to get to that point.
Here is where she is at this point.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm005-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm006-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm009.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/2011TGtradebowelm008.jpg)
dagnabbit I forgot that advise about keeping the tips wide.Oh well I bet if I whish they were wider later I want forget again.
Thanks Pat
Nice tip (no pun) with piece of metal holding the tip. I seem to fight with clamps. I might have to make me a piece of metal like that.
Pat, when you put this much bend in, do you put some wieght or something up on the limb? Reason I ask, is I found a cool trick. I used to try to bend the wood before it was ready and end up with disaster sometimes. Now, when bending, I will put some wieght near the handle or sometimes the wieght of the bow is enough. So basically the wood would bend when its ready.
Or do you just know by feel?
The physical weight of osage and it good reaction to heat will begin to bend on its own when it gets hot enough. This is the first elm I have bent so I wasn't sure what to expect. What I did was add some hand pressure at the handle and could feel when it began to give. That's when I bent it half way, clamped it and reheated the rest and bent it. I never force the wood especially with a steep bend like this.
TBBII has a great section on recurves and on bending wood. They didn't use dry heat much back then but their forms and techniques are cool to see and read.
Pat you are my hero..love seeing your work :thumbsup:
Neat stuff, for sure. (Looks sort of like a double ended sled runner in that second pic there, like they used to make during/after WWII to conserve steel.)
Bernie, you should have seen the recurve I was making a few years ago. When all was said and done one tip went up the other down. Another of those brain fart moments! d;^)
im very curious about you're static recurve form. what is the radius from the cp of the circle ? does your form also incorperate reflex? how is the elm workoing for you?, i have read that it has an interlocking grain and does not let go while tillering easy. i know its a white wood. what paul comstock calls a second string wood. just very curious. ruddy
Ruddy, I don't do things precisely but I think it is about 6" to 8" diameter. I found something round about the size I wanted and tried it...and it worked.
Back in the day if it wasn't osage or yew it was second string bow wood. So far I am pleased with how elm reacts to heat. Similar to osage it seems. Once I get to tillering I'll let you know how that works too. I know elm can be a bear to split because of the interlocking grain but I don't think it will effect tiller. This stave was sawn out to follow the grain.
This form is only for this tight recurve. I have another for kicked up tips. it is a longer curve or eliptical and one for just reflexing one limb at a time and my big one for straightening and reflexing.
One tip each way, huh, Pat? That would have been inovative - if you could've got it to catch on - :goldtooth:
lookin good pat , wish i had your patients ! maybe it'll come with age . lol
love your shop by the way, looks like mine
"One tip each way, huh, Pat? That would have been inovative - if you could've got it to catch on"
I would have to frame something like that Bernie :bigsmyl: Art
looks good so far Pat. Thanks for sharing.
I should have kept that bow the way it was but I was younger and fretted about such things. Now that I'm "OLDER" and more patient things like that don't bother me.
I got nothing done on this bow today. Maybe tomorrow.
Looking good Pat. I got a chuckle and I remember that bow with the oposing tips,LOL
Nice build along Pat, those opposing tips sounds like something I would do. I've learned the hard way to pay attention to my work more closely and don't let myself get distracted. If somebody walks into the garage and starts talking to me, I just stop what I'm doing and wait till they leave to continue.
I wish I had a dollar for everytime I screwed something up because somebody interupted my thought process.
I'm really paying attention to this thread mainly because of the wood bending tips, I'm going to try that myself on one of my Osage longbows.
If you don't have a heat gun, steam works well also for taking out crooks in the stave, but how would it work for bending the tips?
Yeah, Art - at least a picture of it framed and mounted over the workbench - LOL. Maybe you should try to re-enact the crime scene for us, Pat. You know:
"Would ya mind doin' thet agin, ol' buddy - ah missed it the firs' time?"
"Well, OK. Here - hol' muh beer 'n watch clos't this time."
;)
According to severl books that is how Natives did it. Hot rocks or coals in a trench, then wet plants then the bow cover with dirt and bend ove a round log. Never tried it but hey I bet it works.
Pat have you learned nothing from my thread! You not suppose to say somthing like make sure you don't bend a limb the wrong way. Don't ask me how I know. ;p
Kelly
Got a little more work done on my bow today. I even took 2 pics on the tiller tree with a bit of bend but the camera ate those 10 pics. ..so I took these of the bow lining up the limbs and adding some reflex...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011005.jpg)
That looks great Pat! Art
coming along good, hope i didnt offend ya Pat ,i admire age and expirence !
Pat its lookin very nice and I'm sure TomB would approve. I got the copy of the mag you sent me and you done well on the article. I was very pleased with it. Do you know if little Pat will be at the Classic this year? Would love to see the set all together.
Hi Pat,I am a big fan of your recurves,wish i had the skill to make one.
Keep the picks coming.
Thanks Art. That elm is nice to work with.
Ken, I have come to appreciate age and experience too. Better than the alternative!
Dana, I'll find out if Patrick will be coming to the Classic. If he does I'll be sure he brings the set with him.
PJ, we might just have to work up a trade! I'm anxiuos to get to the buff horns you sent me but I'm still reading Mr. Karpowicz's book. d;^)
Looking good Pat!
mr pat, you got me curious, the heating of the bow is definately magic. im still cuttin my teeth. but im learnin i cant wait to see your red elm masterpeice. ruddy
Me too Ruddy. We have a nice rainy day here so I should get more done today. I'll take the dog for a walk and get to the basement and get this thing bending. More pics later.
Hi Pat,
I would say just start working with the horn don't think about it too much,(what I did)I am having a hard time keeping my hands off the Korean style I have seasoning,I am going to put layer of sinew on the crabbow today.The rest I think I am going to wait till I am moved.I will have some very interesting STUFF(lol) for you once I make a trip to India.
Cheers
P.J.
I got a little more done this morning. Here is the bent bow on the tree...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm001.jpg)
Starting to get a nice bend.
As you can see from these pics I still need to work on string alignment but it is looking pretty good at low brace. I'm sweating it a bit at low brace. I'll give it a few hours like this then go back to getting the bending better.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm002.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm004.jpg)
Awesome pat you will be shooting her soon.
She's pulling 50#@17" now. Going for 50#@28" Still have more tweeking to do to get her out to full draw.
Looking pretty darned neat in that last pic, Pat.
Who, me or the bow? d;^)
Looking great Pat, keep it coming, thanks for the kind words but I am afraid you don't need any lessons from me.
Looking forward to seeing the finished product!!
Nice work.
Bert. :archer2: :archer2:
Looks good Pat. Hey i was looking at your picture where the tips don't quite line up...would it be beneficial to cut temp. nocks and put a loose string on it so that when you're bending the tips you can see if it's out of alignment and make adjustments while the wood is still hot? Just thinkin' out loud here but it could save from having to heat her up twice. What are your thoughts? I've never done it before so it could just be a hassle.
Looking good Pat, can't wait to see more.
Kansan, I don't want to stress the bow at all when hot. I don't need to get the twist out yet. Once I get the limbs bending better I'll re-heat each recurve individually and straighten them up better. Also the tips are 3/4" wide and pretty thick. When I get near final tiller I will shape the tips. I purposely leave the tips wide so I can adjust string tracking by removing wood from one side of the tip or the other. The width of the finished tip will be about 3/8" at the string nock. The strength of the narrow tips will be in their thickness. If necessary I can tweek the tips with heat at any time before adding the finish.
Oh - the bow, Pat, I didn't even notice you passed out under the workbench there - ;)
We are having a nice rainy daty today so I got some shop time in. I have her bending to 50#@20" now. I had to allign one limb tip and get a bit of twist out on one limb. Will check it later.
In the mean time here are a few pics of what I did today. The double pics are of either side of the bow at low brace...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011002a.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011001a.jpg)
...and at 14 1/2" draw...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011003a.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011004a.jpg)
These next pics are the relaxed bow after unbracing. You see she has a little set but I will take care of that later.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011008.jpg)
Other pics of tip and limb twist corrections...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011006.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011005a.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011009.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011010.jpg)
You will notice the big pipe wrench in the last pic. I have hung all my clamps on it to help remove the twist.
Nice work Pat, looking forward to the "fulldraw" pic's.
Take your time ....
Bert.
Looking good Pat
Sure looks nice.
Great build along! Are you adding heat along with the pipe wrench/clamps weight at the handle to remove the twist?
Great job on the article in Primitive Archer as well. This bow will be special as well. Thanks for showing us how to do it.
Bert, now you've got me nervous. d;^)
thanks Ranger and old guy.
Bruce, yes I started at the tip end and began heating the limb and moved down the limb to the fades, clamping as I went(in appropriate places). With the cutout area in the form I supported the handle area with a small wood block and attached the wrench to the blocky handle. I heated the inner limb well then let the whole thing cool for 3 or 4 house before removing the clamps. I'll wait at least until tomorrow before I stress it.
Thats looking sweet Pat. Should make a beautiful full draw.
I think so, Keenan. I like this elm. Great bow wood so far.
I hope it works out Pat cause we have tons of it around here.
Lookin good!
Your shop looks vaguely familiar.........kinda like my own. I'm no neat freak either, but I usually know where everything is at. LOL
Looks like it's coming along very nicely!
That's fantastic looking; pretty incredible design. I haven't seen anything like this before. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out
I feel so inferior. Awsome job. God Bless you, Steve
Looking better and better each time I check in on you Pat! You still thinking about heat treating that baby? Art
I think so, Art but not sure to what extent yet. I'll know when it happens! d;^)
Semo, Marc St Louis uses lots of elm in his highly stressed recurves with great results so give it a try. If I were to clean up my shop I'd spend a half of a year just looking for stuff...although I might find stuff that has been missing for a while. d;^)
It may be a few more days before I can got more work done but I'm also looking forward to seeing the full draw pics!
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
These next pics are the relaxed bow after unbracing. You see she has a little set but I will take care of that later.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011008.jpg)
How are going to remove the set please? :thumbsup:
Looks good but don't know if I like you useing elm. Folks on here are already looking at them for thier next bow But please not cut down all the elms! That is where the Morrells like to grow! They go good with any wild game or by themselves.
Tenbrook, I will temper the belly while on a reflex form. It hasn't taken too much set so I think tempering it in reflex should ultimately give it a bit of reflex or at least a flat profile. Won't know until then though!
Is tempering done with dry heat? Could you explain the process to me please.
Yes, dry heat only and no oil! Basically you scorch the belly wood to increase compression strength. Marc St Louis wrote a chapter in TBBIV on Heat Treating(tempering) wood bows. He did a lot of research on the matter and explains it quite well, better than I can. Marc has a thread on PA explaining his technique.
What I've done with tempering is to scorch the belly wood(not the sides or back) to a chocolate brown color and then give the bow plenty of time to rehydrate(3 days or longer depending on the R/H in your area)before stressing the bow. I hold the heat gun nozzle about 1" above the bows belly and move it about 6" back and forth until the wood scorches to the degree I'm looking for. I then move the heat gun out the limb but keep the heat moving evenly so each session overlaps the previous one. You only need to do this in the working section of each limb.
When Marc does it he has a heat gun holder that sits on the belly of the bow with the nozzle at about 5" above the belly. Marc will leave the heat in one spot for up to 5 minutes before moving it. He claims this makes it penetrate deeper into the wood unlike my method that only penetrated a shallow section of the belly. Marc says the shallow tempering is only temporary but so far for me it seems to work well. I generally do the tempering at the very end of a build and add reflex at the same time. I leave the bow clamped for at least 3 to 4 hours(longer is better) before removing it from the form. I don't stress the bow for at least a week, especially this time of year when the air is the dryest around here.
that bow has got me drooling Pat,excellent job.
Thanks Pat! :thumbsup:
Pat,I would like to ask a question, if you don't mind. I just finished heat treating a 65" HHB bow using the directions from TBB IV. This bow was tillered to 55# @28" before tempering. Since it is so dry here right now, I've let it sit for over a week now and have only floor bent the limbs a few inches. Before tempering it had around 2"+ of set, when I get it retillered we'll see how much set returns. Would it help to reduce set if I remove some more from the belly before pulling back to 28"?
It won't hurt it to remove some of the of the belly if it needs it. If you did like Marc the tempering goes deep so it should not take too much set if any. Have you exercised the bow well after each tillering? One thing I do while building is once I get about 10" on the short string I'll low brace it and let it sit like that for an hour or so(sweating). If you do this as you are tillering you shouldn't get any more set because you are working that out while sweating it.
Outstanding job Sir :thumbsup: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Pat, Yes, I usually do about 30 - 40 pulls on the tree gradually working up to just short of the draw that it was before the wood was removed. Hope that makes sense. This is my first time working HHB and heat treating.....Dan
Sounds good Dan. Makes perfect sense.
HHB makes a great bow.
Pat, Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me and all the others that post here. I always look forward to reading you posts, because they are so helpful.....Dan
I have her pulling about 50#@22" now and the string tracks pretty well. I may have to do a final adjustment but I'll worry about that later.
With the string tracking well and only a short way to go I decided to add overlays, both to the tips and back of the handle. I like a bulbous handle(hope my reciepient does) and usually add a leather overlay that will be shaped when the final handle shape is made. I also added cow horn tip overlays. These will also be shaped when the final tip shape is made.
Not long ago I started using rubber bands as clamps for some of my overlay glue ups. I buy a bag at Walmart cut each to make a long strip and stretch and wrap after the glue is applied. These give good even pressure and positive pressure until the glue(TBIII) cures.
With the leather back overlay I use shoe sole leather. You can buy these pre-cut shoe soles from a shoe shop(if they still exist) or a custom leather shop. I trace the handle area on the leather and cut it on my bandsaw. Then soak it until pliable, wipe off the excess water and glue it down to the handle back and secure with the rubber bands as before. The wet shoe leather will conform to the contours of the back for a good fit. I pre-taper the tip overlays into a wedge shape that featheres out to nothind for a good transition from overlay to bow. I do the same with the leather handle overlay but on both ends also for a smooth transition.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays002.jpg)
Here is the leather handle overlay glued and secured with the rubber bands.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays004.jpg)
...and the tips with the cow horn overlays glued and secured with the rubber bands. All overlays will get an initial shaping when the glue cures in a few hours. I used TBIII for all these overlays.
...the top tip overlay...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays007.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays006.jpg)
...and the bottom tip overlay...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays005.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebow2011overlays008.jpg)
I got the initial shaping of the handle and tip overlays. here are a few pics...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays009.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays005.jpg)
...and the tips before shaping...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays002.jpg)
...and after initial shaping. These tips will be narrowed after I string the bow again and check the string allignment.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays006.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays007.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowoverlays008.jpg)
Looking good, real good in fact.
That is fast beginning to foretell a mighty pretty bow, Pat.
i certainly appreciate your build-a-long pat. ive been learning alot from you. i didnt realize that you got this far along. ive been sick for a couple of days. im lookin foward to seein the rest. ruddy
Looks good Pat and thanks for the sharing all that knowledge with the rest of us knuckle heads.
Looking great Pat, Very good builalong!
Thanks guys. I'm enjoying the process as much as you guys are reading about it. To me, this is what wood bow building is all about, sharing these processes with anyone and everyone that is interested. Pass it on!
Pat, while scouting out new location for a stand location back in Novemeber, I came across a nice elm tree. It's about 9-10 inches in diameter and the trunk is pretty straight. Next time I'm at the lease she's comin' home with me! Good job.
Stan
This is my first real attempt with elm and so far I am very pleased. I'll rank it up there with almost any other whitewood...as long as this bow works out!
Here are a few more pics. I got the tips shaped and adding some reflex as I did a bit more straightening for string allignment. I will remove her from the form tomorrow. I still have about 3" or 4" more to tiller out but I was waiting until I get the string tracking well.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm001b.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm003b.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm004b.jpg)
I didn't think about taking pics until after she was in the form hence the undershot of the tip.
I'm getting close enough to start thinking about her wardrobe. I'm thinking something a bit different. Pondering!
very nice pat. im lookin foward to seeing a better angle of your finished tips. i was wondering how deep you went with your tracking groove down the belly of the recurve, im guessing half the thickness of the rat tail file am i correct? ruddy
Looking really good Pat! That tip alignment is always the worse part, at least for me. Drives me nuts some times! Looking forward to seeing 'er primed and finished.........Art
Ruddy, right now they are about 1/3 of a rat tail file thickness. After everything lines up and just before final sanding I'll get them a bit deeper and round the sharp edges.
Art, the tip allignment is always a bitch. It's not just bending the tips that make a recurve! d;^)
Looking good, Pat.
Stan
I am with Sixby. Gluing some glass over some precision milled lams. well it just don't seem the same. I am constantly amazed at the skill you wood bow gurus have.
Pat she is look really good. I bet I will be drooling over this one before long.
jess there is a plus to the glass you can use wood that a selfbowyer could never use and make a work of art that is just as lovely.
I've been having some stablilty problems with the bow. When strung it wants to reverse itself. I've done a bit more allingment straightening and tweaking the tips so we'll see. I'll streing it up later and see where she is now.
I feel for you brother! Hope this time is the charm.....Art
I found one linb slightly offset at the fade so I took care of that this morning. When I low braced her again that problem was taken care of but that tip needed adjustment. I did that this afternoon. We will see what surprise she has for me tomorrow. When all of this is worked out she is going to be a sweet bow. I can already tell. I still have a few pounds to remove but I'll wait to the very end for that! d;^)
Looking very good Pat, I'm also working on an elm bow and been havin a heck of a time getting the string to line up argggggg! See ya at Pappys eh:)
A little heat and a little pressure a little at a time seems to be working for me Dana. Slow and easy!
Looking forward to seeing you at the Classic too. Maybe it won't rain! d;^)
Pat, picked up a copy of PA and read your article, great story. I hope it turns out great. Keep up the good work.
Pat,
Very nice looking bow. You are a more patient man than me, maybe that's why all my self bows have straight limb's.
Thanks Okie. Tom was a special friend to a bunch of us. Great group of folks over on PA. Lots of us go way back.
Greg, straight simple bows are my true love but these fluzies get me all the time. I shoot a straight bow way better than these recurves but I just can't help myself. After over 25 years of building wood bows I learned patience about 10 years ago! d;^)
Looking good Pat, do you use any tip underlays to keep the shape from pulling out over time?
I'm going to try this myself in the not so distant future and was thinking about putting curved tip underlays on mine, maybe walnut or even a thin strip of Hickory under Osage? Not sure yet, but that's gonna be awhile yet.
Now that is one neat looking bow.
Semo, on osage I don't worry about the tips pulling out but with some whitewoods I have had that problem. On one hickory bow I added walnut underlays to support the recurves. This was a bow I built many years ago but it developed a hinge just behind the recurve so into the "corner of shame" it went. Last year a friend asked if I'd make a bow fior his girlfriend. I recovered this hicvkory bow from the "corner..." , added the underlays, dressed her up a bit and gave it to Hannah. Turned out quite well.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Hannahsbow016.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Hannahsbow013.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/Hannahsbow014.jpg)
cool
Very sweet looking.
OK, after some monotonous tip tweaking, etc I decided yesterday to temper the belly. This wasn't a deep tempering like Marc St Louis suggests but what I am comfortable with for now. After tempering I added a mixture of dissolved pinion pine pitch and terpentone to the hot wood(as pre Marc St Louis)to replenish what was forced out of the wood during tempering. I let her rest over night and added part of her wardrobe today. Here are a few tease pics for you...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm001-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm002-1.jpg)
That's looking stunning, Pat, per your usual! I've enjoyed watching this one come into being. It's a beauty that anybody should/would be proud to own. Thanks for all of your attention to detail and for allowing us to be a part of the process :) :thumbsup:
I'm enjoying it as much as everyone else, 4est. I'm loving working with this elm too. An excellent bow wood as far as I can tell from my first real attempt.
It must be nice to have a deer target you can plunk from your deck, Pat! Either that, or the deer in your area really like to have their picture taken. :) That sure is some pretty timber in the background, too.
The profile in that first picture is gorgeous. Absolutely beautiful curves! Can't wait to see how you finish it out.
from what i can tell those look like some corn snake skins on the back of that bow, ifn it aint you sure got me fooled pat. ruddy
Looking sooooooooooooo good, Pat.
Well, I got you fooled Ruddy. More exotic!
Thanks Bernie. This is one or those that you wonder if you really want to give it away.
4est, that deer target has been there so long birds and chipmonks have started nesting in it. Can't practice during nesting season. d;^)
Pat that is a fine looking bow. I know ********* is going to love it. I just hope it makes that long trip.
Kelly
Wow Beautiful Bow Pat
I can readily see where that would be the case, Pat.
I got a floppy rest and handle wrap on yesterday and the first coat of Tru-Oil. Won't be long now before her debut!
Now your teasing Pat
:campfire: :coffee:
OK guys, I took a few preliminary pics today so here she is...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm001-2.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm002-2.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm004-1.jpg)
...and a few more...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm003-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm005.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm006.jpg)
oh my goodness! i'll be back to ask some ? in a few. ruddy
oooooh thats purty
dragonshins...nice...
I had to shoot a pesky giraffe that was eating my high bush blueberries. d;^)
Pat, sounds like crop damage to me!!!!Great looking bow, as always, well done.....Dan
AWESOME !!!!!
where do you live pat? the asheville zoo :D
Thanks guys. I'm pleased with the way this bow turned out. Might have to make myself one.
You know the rules Pat.....where's the full draw pics?????????
I'll get a full draw pic later this afternoon.
My wife is wondering why she is getting so many spit stains on the front of my shirt when she does laundry. *drool*
That looks great pat, is it a paper back or a cloth?
Try a bib, Goose!
Kelly, it is tissue paper. I've seen animal print cloth that would probably work good and would add some protection. The strongest part of this backing is the glue it went down with. This is purely decorative!
Here are the braced and full draw pics. Looks like the lower limb is still a bit stiff but it will have to do for now. I ran out of Tru-Oil today and my supplier is out also.
so here she is...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm002g.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm003g.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGtradebowelm004g.jpg)
Beautiful, Pat. Goose isn't the only one drooling over your work.
Stan
pat, i think it looks great! your recipient is going to love it. ruddy
Stunning! Great job on a difficult piece of wood Pat. Enjoyed watching it come to life.........Art
Thanks guys. This has been a fun project. I think ****** *** will love it. Art, She spits the hill cane arrows you made me last year like they were made for her. I have some tapered ash arrows that are similar weight that don't even come close.
I've found that you can't make a finer arrow out of anything else Pat. Love the stuff.........Art
Pat, that is one sweet looking bow.
Pat,
Very nice bow! I love the backing.
Very nice-that will make someone happy.
Thanks everyone. This has been another fun project like last year.
I can tell ou had a blast building that one Pat. The grin says it all.
Love the profile of that bow.
Stiks
Pat, You done good.....Real Good!
Oh Pat you know ****** *** is going to love it. Can't waite for you to ship it and see what they think though
I want to put a few more arrows through her and will do that today. I have 5 coats of Tru-Oil on her and did a quick spray of satin poly to cut the shine yesterday. She should be going in the mail later this week. I'll be getting this one out just in time to start my PA trade bow. I think I'm back in the saddle again!
Before last years trade I hadn't built a bow in over a year and Kris talked me into getting into the trade and being we had until July 4th to get our bows out I decided I could get it done. SO...thanks Kris for getting me back doing what I love to do. Unfortunately(or fortunately) I'm deep into my addiction again! d;^)
Brilliant Pat!!!!
I wouldn't mess with that bottom limb myself, I think she looks just fine!
Nice work.
Bert.
Excellent... and the tiller at full draw looks great, well done :notworthy: :notworthy:
Hi Pat, for an ugly old man you sure make some beautiful bows,That one looks gorgeous.
Well Bert, then she is done! d;^) Thanks.
Thanks Ron.
PJ, I resemble that remark!
Thats a dandy Pat :thumbsup:
Once again I am in awe of your work! She looks great!
Gee, and I didn't even realize I was in the swap (but you inadvertently left one of the "n"s off my last name, Pat, it's **** ) - :archer:
Oh well, you can't blame a guy for tryin'. As you well know, it is a true beauty, Pat, with a lovely tiller, and if the lucky recipient doesn't like it (for some crazy "animal skin" phobia, or something) they can certainly count on me to take it off their hands.
I foresee (with fingertips pressed to temples) an upswing in the number of Elm bow attempts on the Bowyers Bench in the near future - I'm just saying.
Now I just cant waite till it gets to the new owner.
Bernie next year you have to thru your name in the hat. I mean look at all these bows and you and I just know one thing for sure they ain't comming to us. lol
Pat you are a white wood wizard I say simply magic.
you havent seen me without shave old man,they say I look like the bloody taliban,seriously, make me a bow,how does a damascus steel Jambhiya sound in trade as well as some full tang broadheads.
Sounds good PJ. All I need is time! d;^)
Bernie, she is staying in NC and is heading east of where I live!
Kelly, I don't make many whitewood bows but I will definately try elm again.
Thanks Bona and Dave.
See, that could have been me, Kel - LOL. Hmmm, that's a fair chunk of landscape and more than just a few candidates even at that, eh, Pat? At least it means I may get a chance to see it up close and personal at one of the shoots we go to in NC and/or WV.
Pat you just broke more that one heart with that and now the rest are praying even harder. lol
I'm such a tease!..or am I a liar! d;^)
Well, yeh, Pat, but only the High Sherrif worries about that - ;)
She is packaged up in a 4" PVC tube and will hit the PO tomorrow. I already miss her! d:^(
OK, Pat - now that you've finished that job, come down here for a day or two and straighten out this "Multi-Damascus-look" back on my stave/bow - :D
I sure hope whoever gets that bow has a video camera handy to give us a look at their face when they see it, and then when they shoot it. Or at least some candid still shots.
Bernie, I have the feeling you will be seeing her again.
That Damascus backed osage could be the new craze! d;^)
well now pat you had few more months to break her in some more. I mark you as shipped and if it falls thru for some reason and you cant ship her, just let me know.
LOL - Pat's afraid that if he "breaks her in" any longer - he never would be able to turn loose of her - :nono:
She went out just a little bit ago. Should be to her new home on Thursday.
Gee, I sure hope her new Daddy won't be too upset about all the rest of us having drooled all over her.
"Who's your Daddy now?" :biglaugh:
That would have been a good name for her!
"Who's you Daddy now?" Why didn't you tell me that yeaterday?
LOL - Sorr reeeee. ;)
I would have been honored had you chosen it as a name for that fine bow - some small part in it :)
That's absolutely unbelievable!
I love it, great job. I'm sure the new owner will love the bow too.
I love it too. Pat I'll give her a good home.
Bernie you'll deffinitely get to see it again. I may even let you shoot it. Remember I said may. LOL Paul<><
Congrats Paul! Pat told me a couple weeks ago where she was going. I was pretty excited for you.
Two good draws both years.
Enjoy her Paul. I can sleep well now just knowing she's in a good home! d;^)
Well, bless your heart, Paul - that really did come close to home. I'll even bring driving gloves to Sissipaha, on the 19th, Paul, and wear 'em if you let me shoot an arra or two with her - LOL
Heartfelt congratulations, buddy, (along with a modicum of righteous jealousy - LOL).
First off, that is an awesome looking bow! I've read this thread a couple of times as I'm interested in building a bow with elm. I just have one question. Do you have to chase a ring with elm like you do with osage? I couldn't find anything in this thread about that.
Thanks.
If the elm is cut during the growing season just peel the bark and make a bow. If winter cut you will have to remove the bark and at least some of the cambium but you won't have to chase a ring.
Awesome job on the bow, great build along as well!