during my visit with bernie earlier this week, when we test drove the 2 piece selfbow i just made. bernie happened to show me a stave he had bought at atar in "09". this stave was bought virtually at the same time don had purchased a stave for me that became said 2 peice. well, on the ride home from bernie's i had time to think about those wonderful art b. rivercane arrows. and bernies stave. when i got home i called bernie and offered a trade, some home made rivercane arrows from him for my bow. and i would build him a bow from the stave he showed me. well here ya go bernie . these are pics of bernie's stave in the vice when i got it home. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie001.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie003.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie002.jpg)these next pics im using the drawknife to hog off th sapwood. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie004.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie006.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie005.jpg). im down to the first good growth ring under the sapwood got to finish the early wood between the sapwood to see what i have. i also think i may be dealing with a worm hole where the edge of a limb is going to be i'll have more pics tomorrow. ruddy
MAN LOOKS LIKE YA GOT PLENTY WOOD TO WORK WITH I SEE 2 BOW S IN IT MAKE A BELLY SPIT GET 2 BROCK
looks good bud! that stave is huge!!!
-hov
i understand where your comin from brock. i will show you with a tape tomorrow the dimensoins of this stave. i dont think there is enough to make a good enough belly split from to make a good bow. it is a deep and narrow split. but i do see a good bow in this stave for sure. ruddy
That's one nice piece of wood you have there Ruddy! How wide is it mid-width? An 1" to 1 1/8" will make a bow in Bernie's weight range.....Art
Thanks for the pics and thread to follow your progress, Ruddy, Starting right off with the stave itself.
I've discussed a two bow belly split from this stave with a number of folks, including Ruddy. I do think perhaps it's appearance could be a little misleading (except that those who have many bow builds under their belt would probably easily get two out of it, one way or another, even if one was a kids bow only). In any case when I agreed to let Ruddy have his hand/head with this stave/bow, I told my friend a couple of things to bear in mind - One, the most important thing is the first (top) bow, and for him to have fun and learn with it (as he did with his 2piece), and Two, that I also see a good bow in this stave (and Ive looked at it often and long - LOL) but that I do know "stuff" happens from time to time, and things sometimes don't work out - should that occur in this case - for any reason - then ... "Stuff Happens!" Then we will simply revert to that part of #1 that says "have fun and learn with it".
In other words, have at it , with my blessings, Ruddy, as if it is your own project. I will watch with interest and enjoyment, as I do any good bow building thread (and yes, surly with the extra anticipation of , as you named it, "A Bow For Bernie" perhaps being the end result) :thumbsup:
The start looks good, sorry about the worm holes - let the learning begin - LOL
Hey Bernie, everyone knows that two bows are better than one :readit: :bigsmyl: But one is nice also ;) ............Art
LOL - I heard that, Art, old friend. I'd be surprised if you wouldn't get 2 adult, and 1 kid bow out of it - LOL
and three oompah loompah bows...
-hov
sounds good brenie how bad are them holes i didnt even notice em brock
I've never seen them. Ruddy told me about them on the phone today after he got started. They could have been there when I bought it or got there later. However, I sprayed it a number of times while it hung on my porch aging, and neither of us saw any holes in the bark when we looked it over, earlier this week, for the such. Ruddy said he'll give us more pics in the AM. He also said a couple of the holes will be outside of the tips at the ends so only one is of any concern at all and it may not turn out to be deep enough to even require dealing with. keeping the fingers crossed.
Ruddy,
Hope you have as much fun on this one as you did the first. Heck once you get bernie's bow out of it you may be able to quarter saw the wedge and get a nice osage board out of it. Just a thought.
Good luck, God Bless and happy building,
Kelly
i got a lot of work done yesterday. got all the sapwood off and to the first available ring (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie008.jpg)it also reveilthis crack but its so small i cant even get my fingernail in it so we will see how it goes. im going to try placing the handle section of the bow at this spot. its a non bending handle section. sorry for the small amount of pics. i ran out of batteries for my camera. more later. ruddy
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/abowforbernie009.jpg) forgot to post the pic of the longitudal crack. ruddy
Man, that is a meaty stave. I'll be following along with this one.
Ruddy, maybe I'll give you a call this evening if I don't wear myself out today. Surgery really messed with me this time around,,, I aint been right since!
cool i look foward to it. you have help comin so put the fella to work. dont wear yourself out now. i know what ya mean about not feelin right when ya get a peg pulled or 2. ruddy
Nice work Ruddy, I'm gonna try to keep up with this build along. Trying my hand at laminated longbow now then I would like to try this. Taking it all in is the step I'm at right now for self-bows.
Osagetree, I had a wisdom tooth pulled 10 days ago and I'm holding the side of my head as I type-Dry Socket has me down! Worst pain I've ever had I believe! Good luck
I was lucky in a way. My father and I had terrible teeth (Ma,sis, and Bro had great ones). I had a ton of work done throughout my lifetime - only have two real ones in my headbone - and that's two more than Pop had. However, I do not recall ever having any trouble or even mentions of wisdom teeth problems, as so many do. Heck, maybe I just never even had any wisdom :eek:
Backs looking good so far, Ruddy - who would have thought worm holes and splits in that pretty stave, huh? Ya never know what's under the bark I guess. Perhaps you are getting all of it out of the way early on, buddy.
Whats sad Bernie is I didn't have typical wisdom teeth probs, it just broke and I didn't want to pay for a root canal and crown. This was a simple pull since it was thru and not buried--oh well thats life right!
I hope Ruddy is working on the bow now, snapping pics as he goes!
LOL - Knowing him, he probably is.
i decided to go to the second ring down from the sapwood. its takeing me a little time. i used the opportunity to follow semo hunter's tutorial vids to learn howto use my spokeshave. wow what a way to chase a ring. very cool stuff. its been cool enough in my unheated shop that my camera is unwilling to coopperate . i should have some pics tomorrow. ruddy
Yes, I enjoyed (and learned from) those videos too (links in Kelly's current build thread). If you've not had luck with a Spoke Shave, check them out, by all means. Gotta get mine sharpened up and ready.
Last night and today I'm not surprised your camera is balking, Ruddy. Got down to 10 degrees here last night and then dropped one more at sunup, before increasing today. Struggled to get just above 40. I meant to ask, what camera are you using for your shop pics, BTW (it's doing a good job)?
bernie my camera is a 9 yr old heylett packard camera only 5 mgp. when i bought it it was a $ 400 camera plus an extra$100 for the memory card. ruddy
That Spoke shave is easier on the hands. You just have to get is sharp unlike the drawknife. SEMO_HUNTER has brought back a tool for us all I think. I still am working on getting mine sharp enough. It is new out of the package and the blade is not very sharp but a couple of passes on that sand paper it is close.
Can't wait to see what you got Ruddy.
Kelly
Mine is a little younger but 4mgp (Kodak Z700 aprox $2oo). Thanks, just curious because you had mentioned mine taking good pics. I know HP makes other good products (have a scanner & printer), didn't know they made cameras.
Back to bows :archer:
im cold and tired this stave does not want to let go of any of it early wood. in the future when i get a stave i will definately chase a ring and seal it with shellac. when its still drying it lets go of wood so much easier. if have done this early on in the 2 peice ive built, i remember how much easier it was to chase a ring. im also guessing it doesn;t take much to remember either lol. ruddy
lol
I imagine you are cold in that garage - you need one of those heaters they use at construction sites. My back room "glory hole" is even too cold to (seriously) think about going in there and getting started these days. - :(
ok fellas i hit it hard today. i finally got that ring in pristine condition. i also got a profile layed out on the stave. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0467.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0469.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0470.jpg)it is a basic pyramid design. 4" handle with 3" fades 64" long 1 3/4"wide tapering to 5/8" for now at the tips.i left everything a little wide for now. but we will get it perty.
time to rough it out. here im gettin ready to do a belly split. for now i want a 2" deep handle so i made a mark 2" from the back at the handle and started my split. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0473.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0477.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0475.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0480.jpg)
next we to to use the drawknife and srart roughing out the profile (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0484.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0486.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0488.jpg) look what i found bernie. that worm was a tastey afternoon snack :scared: it went great with the tortilla chips i was eatin. lol
Ruddy (and everyone else doing their stave build-alongs, for that matter),
Thanks for takin the time to photograph & document all this. I'm going out to cut some osage of my own in a week or two, and the pictures really help to fill in the details that would've just been guesswork otherwise. Probably saved me from ruining half a tree!
Looks good so far!
P.S. Don't be complaining about the cold! We just got another 6 or 7 inches of that white stuff in your last few pictures that's trying to call itself 'snow'. ;)
-Tyler
You have been a busy, and productive, "beaver" today, my friend. Good coverage with the pics too (is Vicki your Photographer?). Looks like you did a good job on the split, how did you feel about it?
Sure a lucky thing that fat weasel of a worm stayed outside the "bow area" and probably a good thing the stave got put to the knife now rather than later in view of his apparent eating habits. (You sure you didn't feed that worm to the "Purp Dog"? I'll bet he'd a torn that fat rascal up in a hurry.) Sure glad you uncovered him early on, bud.
Tyler - we don't even want to try to compare with Nebraska's weather/snow - we don't even like what we got. Besides our blood is thinned out down here, and we have to complain about what we have to complain about - :D
one of my favorite tools to rough shape the pyramid profile of a bow is a farriers rasp. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0490.jpg). it removes wood in a hurry but in a safe manner not causing a big tear in your profile. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0493.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0491.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/100_0492.jpg). more pics tomorrow
Looks good, I just can't get enough of these builds, seems like I learn more and more with each one. Thanks!!!
Looks good, Ruddy. Interesting to see a "belly split".
Here's a question. I'm trying to shape up a "green" osage stave. Just took the bark off this past weekend and sealed with shellac. This afternoon I began taking off the white wood down to the "yellar" wood. Should I seal the exposed heart wood as I progress, or wait until the entire length of the stave has been reduced?
:confused:
Stan
go to a good ring. get it to start to bend, and i mean barely. seal the back and the ends and stick it in your attic until fall it should be ready to at least start floor tiller then. use shellac . ruddy
Boy, are you hooked!!! You have become an osage bow building machine and I will take some of the responsibility for that! d;^)
Good job Ruddy! You work fast!
That spoke shave works wonders when you get it hummin just right. I've gotten good enough with mine that I can strip rings right down the the soft wood in between the rings, and then go back with my scraper to clean the soft stuff off slick and quick! I can chase a ring in 1/3 of the time it used to take me. I wish I woulda had this tool 6 months ago.
About those worms.......there is an insect (dont' remember what the name is) that lays it's eggs in the bark of the hedge tree. They lay dormant until it's time to hatch and start eating. You probably won't see them when you bring it home and the stave will appear to be clean, when it may actually be full of eggs.
Then over time while your storing it, the eggs hatch and the worm starts to burro all through your pristine stave turning it into swiss cheese.
The only way to defeat this is to strip the bark and sapwood first thing when you get it home. Get it down to the yella wood and seal it. Because the worm eggs are underneath the bark. I found this out the hard way.
And look here what my dad found just this evening while splitting some red oak for the wood stove.
(http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/Misc017.jpg)
Yep, them are worms! Nasty looking little buggers.
I bet they would make good fishing bait?
Do these look familiar Ruddy?
yep thats them, i ate mine though. ruddy
That's worth remembering, if I can ever afford another stave :D . They are nasty looking little buggers - but worms are good protien (so they told us in survivor training). However if that rascal was feasting on my Osage and friend Ruddy has a little reaction to Osage - I don't know - :eek: (Just kidding, Ruddy, get outta the bathroom - ;) Just one probably won't hurt you - much.) Don't gorge on them though if you find more - :p
pat, i wanted to get started on another bow right away. i saw an opportunity to build one for bernie with his stave, and my bow swap build is coming soon.ive been outa work for so long im goin crazy. this occupies my mind and my hands.i also love agood selfbow. vicki says it keeps me in the garage where i belong. ruddy
...and Ruddy you look so studious with your glasses on! d;^)
The grubs from osage are from a small wasp. The ones in the oak log are probably sawyer beetle grubs. I remember many times sitting in my treestand and hearing this rasping sound. Turns out to be sawyer beetles or their grubs eating oak and pine trees laying on the ground.
Interesting, Pat. Still one in there Ruddy will have to deal with most likely.
I took a drive up to Ruddy's this AM to take a book to him I promised to loan him (one of my favs, by Dean Torges). We chewed the fat (and oggled the stave/bow-to-be - LOL). Since I had my camera with me, we decided I'd take a couple (or so) pics of Ruddy at work before I returned home.
Here Ruddy and I chat about his Spoke Shave (same as mine) while he cleans out behind the blade with a large darning needle (works as good as an Exacto knife - once he got his hand on the durn thing - LOL). He had already started contouring with his draw knife this AM, as you can see on the end nearest him :
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/MRB000.jpg)
Back to work on that end, and Ruddy quickly took it to this point:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/MRB000b.jpg)
Took a pic from off that end to see if it would show the "bevels" better:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/MRB001.jpg)
Ruddy took the stave out of the vice to make sure he still had good visible marks for the handle and fades, on the sides, before starting on the other end:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/MRB002.jpg)
Ruddy wielding the Draw Knife in good form on that end:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/MRB003.jpg)
And a final look at the progress before I left him to work in peace (LOL) Keep up the good work, buddy (I enjoyed the visit):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/MRB004.jpg)
I like my grubs well toasted myself :readit: . I believe you should toast that baby real good once you get 'er floor tillerd Rudy (after you make sure the M/C is down). I do that anyhow to prevent any warping later on or if I forget and leave my bow in a hot vehicle........Art
looks like some goood crappie bait !!!! i aint eatin no damn worms haha ruddy it s startin to look like a nice bow keep the pic s comin brock
Thanks, Ruddy.
Stan
Art, Does that mean you "Toast" all your wood bows, and right after floor tillering stage? Does that also insure dead critters (if any) along with other benefits? (I think/trust Ruddy would ask these same questions if he was on, if not - please forgive my "need to know" and answer anyway, my friend :D . When any of us learn, we all learn - hopefully - :) )
Not necessary toast but hot enough to prevent bows warping and crooking in a hot enviroment Bernie. If you make any correction with heat in one certain spot then that same amount of heat should be applied to the rest of the limbs IMO. Once you heat a spot you stiffen that particular area. I would think you want the same consistancy thoughout the limbs. Just my way of thinking.........Art
Oops, missed a question. I have most if not all of my corrections (heating/straightening) done by the time I reach even tiller at brace height Bernie
Lookin good, Ruddy! Hey, Bernie! How are you? Jawge
thanks for everyones support. i actually to the time to thumb through a little of dean torges book that bernie was so kind to drop off at my home this a.m. i did read a little about the importance of a sharp draw knife. i was wondering if there is a tutorial on the subject. ruddy
Rudy, Some love em sharp (Dean for sure - but remember he is a Master Furniture Craftsman as well as bowyer. My Mainer step-father {another Master w/wood} always said a tool that wasn't kept sharp wasn't "worth a tinker's damn"), some swear by em dull. There are even some folks who keep two on hand, one sharp and one dull (makes sense to me if you don't get em mixed up). As in a lot of other tools, I've found it to be like food - it's a very personal preference (and ability) thing in most cases - IMO. Like in Trad Archery - "whatever works for the individual." Glad you're getting into, and enjoying, the book - overall it is a great one, IMhumbleO.
Thank you, Art - that continuity of heat (thus stiffness) makes sense to me, though I never thought about it before.
Hey, Jawge, bless your heart. I just read your posts in KellyG's thread and was going to give you a shout-out but didn't have anything else to add. Always good to receive a greeting from my ol' "Home-boy" - LOL - AND I'm fine, hope you are too. My sis (as well as TV) reports bad conditions in NH this winter. Hang in there, ol' friend.
Thats lookin real nice, great job and bernie is a heck of a guy so I know it will have a good home.
We're doing fine, my friend. LOL.Lots of snow. Jawge
Great, Jawge (not all the snow - LOL).
It dawned on me that I forgot to mention something that I had meant to about the pictures on the previous page. In the next to last picture of that series of 6 that I took, laying on the machines to the right of Ruddy, you will see the belly split from my original stave (from this thread). Ruddy turned that over to me today while I was there. Also, in his generous nature, he gave me the partially worked bow from the belly split of the stave that he built his 2 pc bow from - to finish up if I care to. Both are pretty skinny in the center and either one may need extra wood applied to build a non-bending handle but could be fun. Thanks for those, Ruddy.
Here are pics of the two splits as they stand now, in my glory hole. (Who knows, you may see pics of either, or both, in other threads later on.) I wanted y'all to get a chance to see them now in this thread, though, as sort of by-products of this, and Ruddy's previous, Osage threads/staves. Don't guess you'll have any trouble telling which one is which
Backs:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/BSRBSB001.jpg)
Sides:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/BSRBSB002.jpg) ;)
Looking good Ruddy man you are sure working thru this one. Heck by the time you read this I suspect Bernie will be shooting his new bow. LOL
Bernie both splits look to have a lot of meat on them yet. Hope they inspire you to greatness in the work shop.
Kelly
LOL - perhaps not quite, Kel, but Ruddy certainly is "Making Shavings" with my bow, right on. I almost got covered up in the short time I was there yesterday - thought I was in another snowstorm ;)
well bernies stave is now officially a bow blank. next we will build specific reflex form and recurving the tips form for this bow. pics coming soon. ruddy
Rudy called me today to prepare me for the form build time lapse - LOL. (Considerate of him IMO) Now the tough stuff begins. I told him he was a very ambitious bugger - I didn't realize he was going for a recurve. I'm impressed - I don't have a wood/Osage recurve. I'm stoked!
well its been a while since ive posted on this thread, due to various other projects work and such.got bernies stave past the floor tiller and long string stages. its is now on the short string and braced to 3 1/2". and have it drawn to 14" on the tree. so without further a due here are some pics. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00357.jpg)bow layout. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00356.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00358.jpg)and the pics of both limbs
a pic of the bow strung on the bench vice (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00359.jpg) and a pic of the string alignment. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00360.jpg)a pic of the bow on my relocated tiller tree (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00361.jpg)and a pic of the bow drawn to 14" (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00363.jpg). earlier this yr i had to relocate my tree. the ladies of the house requested more space to store dry goods, i got out voted 3-1. i griped every step of the way, but they are happy so oh well
im gettin ready to throw some heat to the bow and bend some tips to shape into a recurve (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00364.jpg). i talked to mr pat on the phone briefly last night and told him where im at on this projectand he thought i was ready to get to bending some wood. what do y'all think. ruddy
That's a good looking piece of Osage to recurve Ruddy. That's what's needed for these curves. With those tips already reduced, you want to have the ends nice and straight before bending. Just me, but I would steam the tips and bend, and after that heat treat to help hold the bends.
Great thing about recurves, it'll teach you the fine art of how to finesse the string alignment. Have fun........Art
Looking Good, Ruddy - I'm watching with bated breath.
i took another bow stave that has some issues and used it to do some practice bends on the recurve form that i had built. every attempt that i had made thus far has ended in disaster. im wondering what i have done wrongi have not made any attempt to bend any recurved tips on bernies stave yet. i need some help. ruddy
Lots of heat Rudy. I steam my 3/4" thick x 1" wide tips for at least one hour with a steep boil and lots of steam. I have never had one splinter or break.
Are you using steam or dry heat Ruddy?
every one has told me dry wood=dry heat. admitingly, i used a steve that had issues at mid limb. its got nothing to do with bending recurve tips. take a look at my recurve form in the above pic.is the shape wrong? i tried my best to copy mr pats recurve form for the elm build he did in the resent bowswap he did. i used olive oil and a heat gun for dry wood. granted the practice stave i used was already introduced to a reflex caul . was this stave already to dry to cause failure? also i think i was smart enough to have a previous failure to practice on before the real thing. was it my application of heat / was it my practice stave being thinner than the stave im working with now. i do have an alteritave direction to go as making a longbow. but i have a higher goal.???????? ruddy
I used dry heat to bend my tips. A lot of heat. They did splinter out a bit on the belly, but I left enough "meat" to compensate.
Doesn't look like that dry wood=dry heat is working all that well for you Ruddy. Practice with using steam and see if that works better for. You got to know the wood's limits when using dry heat. Personally, I wouldn't recommend that practice for those just starting out.
Some wood is just not meant for bending. Like previously heat treated wood, or exceptionally aged wood. Stump end of the stave can give you trouble because of it's more rigid properties.
When Ruddy told me he was breaking the osage using dry heat(with oil) I told him to shellac the tips first then try steam or boiling...or a glued up, kerfed recurve like 4est Trecker has posted.
I hate that my bud is having such a hard time with this, as I truly know just how badly he wants this to work out for me. I just want everyone to know that I've told Ruddy that there is absolutely no pressure from me on type, time, or even successful completion. We talked a long while yesterday and I told him I have virtually zero experience in bending and/or none at all in making recurves. I told him to talk to whoever can put him in his comfort zone and/or try whatever works for him. I do know this much, I have a good friend who is truly trying his darnedest to make a high quality primitive bow for me, just because he wants to do it - and that is nothing to be sneezed at, as we all know and, I'm sure, can agree on.
We are all behind you, Ruddy but, for heaven's sake, have fun with this bow, and don't beat yourself to death over it no matter what the choices, or outcome, turns out to be. That having been said, we do all love watching the process, and endeavor, with great interest, and we all can appreciate your dedication to a chosen project.
Go to it with a happy heart and a light conscience, my friend, and "talk to the wood gently" as you go. :archer:
Steam the curves in and let them sit for a day. Before you unclamp them hit them with dry heat to keep them in place. It will work Rudy. Steamed wood bends pretty easily and all you need is a pot of water a 12 x 12 square of tinfoil for a hood.
im gettin ready to try it pat and pd. im got one more limb to play with on my practice stave before i try it on the real thing. i still have the alternate, which is to make a longbow, but im still pushing for a recurve. its hard to accept no for an answer from a piece of wood and much harder from myself. rv
Good attitude Rudy! Get after that stave and show it who is boss!
A recurve adds several layers of difficulty. First is bending. For a steep curve like your form I would boil, yes BOIL, the tip for a min of 1/2 hour. I have done it with dry heat but you need to feel when the wood gives and will allow the bend.
You will likely have tear out on the belly side - I always do - even with the metal backing. You must have enough wood thickness before bending to loose this 1/8"+ of material that will tear.
Next added difficulty is tip alignment but this can usually be fixed with some heat after bending. And finally, you are gaining string angle improvement but loosing limb length - a trade off.
Recurves look cool, may add some speed and string angle improvement on short bows but at the cost of stability and ease of bracing. One of my very first bows I recurved just because it was a challenge. Have done few since.
Have you thought about just flipping the tips instead of recurving? Much easier to do with dry heat and you still get a nice mild recurve look...Art
im feeling like my practice stave was plagued with too many problems to bend correctly , even with steam.im feeling beaten by my own work. im walking away for a couple of days. im thinking to choose the safe route and make bernie a reflexed longbow. i know what the end result will be. trying to avoid crushing my head in my benchvice . aaaarrrrrrrgggggg.
there is only one other thing , or should i say person that can frustrate me like this task, thats my wife. sorry to vent but i want to make a recurve so bad i can taste it. im gonna take a new look at my form and have been consulting a book i have about making a proper elipse. i spent the rest of the day doing research on the subject. been rethinking my form. i have other material on hand to make another form . im gonna take another look at mr pats form . i would love to take a look at othr tg'ers recurve forms as well. the beginnings of my nemisis.
Ruddy,
Post pics of your latest attempts so the folk here can see what you have done. You know they my see what this issue is. Remember also most say listen to the wood. That one piece just did not want to be a re-curved stick.
Good luck,
Kelly
now that has something i have not seen yet. what is the actuall diameter. was that a wieder weight? the curve is definitely softer than the curve i was trying to make. i dont have stuff like that layin around all the weights that i have ever lifted were 2x heavey and 4x wides.
That's cool VB, I've been over thinking the tip flip form too I guess? Who knew it was as simple as a plain ol circle? :knothead:
I'm gonna have to use that next time I want to do some creative tip flippin' thanks for the pics and advice.
Good "showing & tell", vanillabear?, and very pretty profile on that little bow too. Unique way of clamping with the holes in the form also (to me anyway). Verrrrry Interrrrresting! :archer:
Cool caul, vanillabear. Nice bow also.
Rudy, bow's looking great. Can't wait to see the finished product. :archer2:
an update, ive been working like a mad man on this for the past 2 days. still trying to get even tiller befor hitting the reflex form and have been working on a new recurve form. her is the bow at rest (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00368.jpg)here is a pic of the bow drawn to 20" (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00371.jpg)
sorry for the crooked pics trying to draw the bow and take a pic by yourself is not an easy task. im thinkin the limb on the left is still a little stiff. rv
It looks almost like a hinge on the right limb at that first panel on the byfold door. Could be an illusion though. Both limbs look a bit stiff at the fades and the outter 1/3 of each limb.
thanks mr pat. so far its been a fight. ive been trying to maintain an eliptical profile on each limb, im learning alot and it has been frustrating trying to do my own work without depending on every bowyer here at tg as extra eyes.still working on forms and trying to deside when to hit the reflex form and the recurve form. ruddy
You're doing fine, and learning all the time, Ruddy. Can't beat that with a big stick (or a bow - LOL). Keep up the good work, when you can.
thanks bernie , it means alot.
My pleasure, buddy.
Ruddy, have you read Howard Hill's book "Hunting the Hard Way". A very enlightening chapter on "types of bows" that he elaborates on. The recurve is one of 'em. Worth reading......Art
mr art i have not read that particular book, i would be interested in lookin at a copy one time. ive been working on bernies bow for the past couple of days. this morning i buils a new recurve form. i did some things a little different and used a larger diameter pattern. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00382.jpg)and i put a bend to make my first recurve tip. no practice stave this time, i was sure it was going to work. (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00384.jpg)it probably took me about 40 minutes from start to finish. in that 40 min. after i had it completely bent and clamped i spent 10 of thos minutes just putting heat to it just to ensure that the heat fully penetrated. hopeefully we have a siccessful bend. rv
Got my fingers crossed for you Ruddy! A lot of times on full length stave bows, that were cut close to the ground, you find the stump end a little harder to bend sometimes. Do you know which end you just bent?
yes i do, the bottom limb. its been showing stiff through most of the build in i beleive that would have been the bottom of the tree. i m gettin ready to bend the upper limb. now i have to ask as we all know the back of the bow is not always perfectly flat it has a slight convex to it. when you bend a bow's tips to make a recurve does it sometimes and up with any flat spot, even though your form was made into a nice smooth radius. i made these curves with the intention that they are stiff, meaning they do not open up through the draw cycle static tips. rv
Yeah, seems like I always get some flat places here or there Ruddy. Last bow I done neither curve looked the same either. Lower limb was cut close to a knot and didn't want to bend in that area. But that's just wood being wood. Lesson learned.......Art
Mighty interesting to watch, Ruddy. Good luck from here on out.
here is the bow on the reflex form (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00391.jpg) (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00392.jpg)
I can tell by the looks of the ashtray in the background how hard you've been working, RudY!
When I heat treated osage I didn't get the dark discoloration that your recurved tips have. Reckon I don't get the limbs hot enough. Next time I'll use more heat.
Looks good so far to me.
Good luck,
Stan
I don't know all there is to understand about that (or is that, I don't understand all there is to know about that - ;) ) but darned if those bends don't look pretty good to me in the pics. Those dis-colored tips may come out adding a nice touch too, the way it looks right now.
Ruddy, she's looking mighty good to me. She ought to be a sweet shooter!!!
That sounds good coming from you, Pat. I hope to get to see it, Sat. - before we leave for the Sissipaha shoot, if Ruddy can ride shotgun for me. If not, I may have to get up to his place next week some time for a close up and personal look-see.
I did get to see the bow Sat, when I stopped to pick up friend Ruddy. I dropped off my bow scale and pulley rig for him to use in tillering bow he's been working hard to make for me. I got to see it up close and personal (off the bending form). Really looking good, and I wish I had thought to take a picture of it, then off we went to the shoot, in a cloud of Osage dust - LOL
ive been doing some more work to the bow. i had to make some adjustments to the string grooves at the tips and make tracking grooves around the curves. did some exercising of the limbs on the tree. i got the bow back up to a 3" brace and worked it to a 14" draw. so far im showing about about 29# at the 14"draw. here is the bow at rest and then 14"draw (http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00482.jpg)
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/broketooth/DSC00484.jpg)sorry about the pic being askew. its kind of difficult to draw the bow and snap a pic too. rv
She's gonna be a special bow for sure, Ruddy. Glad to see you solved the string problem.
Very nice lookin' bow, Ruddy! I've enjoyed following along on this build. Learned alot.
Lookin real nice.
Ruddy called me yesterday and told me about his progress (among other things - like poison ivy from cleaning up after "Irene" - I sympathize, believe me), and the new pics.
That is really looking good to me. Ruddy. I'm impressed. Keep on keepin' on, my friend.
Hadn't had a look see at this post for a while Bit I got to say she is coming along great Ruddy.
The whole tip flipping thing has been a bit of trouble for me but I haven't put much energy into it. Look forward to seeing that in NC next year.
With a little luck, and Ruddy's learning skills, that/this is going to be a bow to be proud of, for sure.
It is looking rather sweet!
I think so too, Joe.
I think that Rudy is a perfectionist Bernie. Probably why it's taking so long. Lucky you that he is. Looking forward to seeing your finished bow........Art
guilty as charged mr art, :D rv
I know he is, friend Art - especially when it comes to anything made with wood (you should see some of the furniture pieces he's been building these days - you'd be impressed).
Lookin real nice Ruddy! :thumbsup:
I'd like to try my hand at putting some recurve in the tips of an osage selfbow someday myself, but right now I just don't have the time. Maybe this winter when things slow down I can get all creative with it like you all.
Keep up the good work cause it's lookin awesome and Bernie is a lucky fella to have such a good friend.
first off, semo, i have to say , i'm the lucky one to have a friend as bernie, to trust me with a stave as a second bow build. knowing as we all do that there are no guarantee's that the bow will turn out. anything can happen. that being said i have a situation.im reaching 18" draw, the slight tip twist is becoming a factor again. it came unstrung on the tree again and really surprised the crap outa me. should i be thinking about straightening the tips on the caul with wedges before i increase brace height at this point. i know im real close to final tiller. when its at brace now, 4", it looks even as far as the side profile.i know i can sand weight off, once i reach final tiller. no issue's there. what do y'all think
Got to get that string tracking good on them tips Ruddy. That has been my tuffest part with flipping tips. I got a few in the corner that need lined out but I put them off to the side for later when I get more edumacated on the subject :D
well kris, i gotta say, this cant get set aside 'till i get edumacated. lol :D this is my edumecation :D ive already talked to mr pat. via the phone. ive got some work to do. i will show pics with the update gettin ready to pull a rabbit outa my arse. :D
I'd pay good money to see the look on face when that rabbit pops out :laughing:
LOL - OK, Kris & Ruddy - have a heart on the po', po' rabbit ;) .
I know you'll keep at it, on and off, Ruddy, until you either "talk" it into what you want it to do - or it gives up the ghost, and turns into dust. Advice from folks like Pat B, Art B, and others will keep you doing the best you possibly can, I'm sure. What more can a guy ask, anyway.
LOL We know Ruddy can talk Bernie. Can't help but love the guy though :D
LOL - that's true, Kris, but that wasn't how I meant the use of the word "talk" (that time ;) ). He really does have a "way" or knack with wood but it is done with hard, careful work and patience, not real talk.
Aligning recurves for the first time can be nerve racking and frustrating I know. Make sure you're pulling the bow straight down on the tillering board Rudy. Oh so important with recurves. Once I get the sring on one, and to normal brace height, I sight down from the handle to the tip to see if any correction is needed. But I think first, you should make sure the limbs are good and straight, and any twist removed, leaving only the recurves to correct.
If you need any help, just post us some pics........Art