Trad Gang

Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Axes bows n knives on January 17, 2011, 04:09:00 PM

Title: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 17, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
Hey guys, I have a 49 inch long osage stave I am going to be using for my next bow. Since it is quite short I am assuming a bend in the handle bow will be a safer design? Right? How wide should I make the limbs and should I atempt to recurve or reflex deflex this bow for better performance?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: scrub-buster on January 17, 2011, 04:16:00 PM
Are you planning on sinew backing?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Pat B on January 17, 2011, 04:16:00 PM
At 49" you better plan on not pulling it more than 20" to 22". I would kick the tips up a bit to improve the string angle at full draw.
 How wide is the stave? If wide enough split it lengthwise and splice at the handle for a more practical bow.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 17, 2011, 04:31:00 PM
it is a little over 2 inches wide and I am not planning on sinew backing but if I feel I need to I have processed sinew on hand.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: hova on January 17, 2011, 04:57:00 PM
my red oak shorty isnt much more than that. that osage sounds like it would make a nice short draw.


lets see some pics!
-hov
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 17, 2011, 05:06:00 PM
It was cut less than a month ago so for now im just gonna work on steaming it into shape I think im gonna leave it at 49 cause its not quite wide enough for a split in the middle.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: H8nonCubs on January 17, 2011, 06:30:00 PM
Very curious on this one. I've got 3 or 4 osage chuncks about the same size.

I've been holding on to them waiting for a bandsaw so I could do a z-splice on em. Its a shame I don't have one yet cause they are some primo pieces left over from a large tree I purchased a while ago.

But ... Like I said very curious I'll be following closely. Maybe one of em doesn't have to wait for a bandsaw!
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 17, 2011, 06:52:00 PM
This is my firt time doing one so small but I have seen many very short and shorter osage yew and juniper bend in the handle indian style bows. I think I am going to steam it and bend up the tips then add sinew and let it cure for a while and see how it goes.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Silent Bear on January 17, 2011, 08:56:00 PM
I would make it bend through the handle with a slight recurve, if your looking at a drawlength around 22-24 inches I would leave it unbacked but for 28 inches or more 1 layer of sinew should help you achieve this
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 17, 2011, 09:55:00 PM
with a bend through the handle you'd be pushin it unbacked to reach 28. I've made osage bows as short as 54 with a seven inch stiff handle that drew to 26 unbacked so it is possible, but pretty risky in my opinion. If you don't mind having it snap on you (which I don't, cuz I'll just make another) then go for, but go slow and good luck.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 08:10:00 PM
Hey guys I got my stave down to 1 ring on the back today and.. well there is a demon hole right in the back here is a link to my photobucket...      http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/?previewTheme=42&track=interstitial&previewCancelUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fs1141.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn582%2Fchristhebowyer%2F
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 08:13:00 PM
These pictures are not in order but you should be able to tell where the sap wood is and is not. I didnt quite leave islands around all of the knots because I will be sinew backing this bow and im not sure what to do about that demon hole of a knot. In some pictures the Orange heartwood is much darker because my light was shining right on it in the picture. This was my first time getting down to 1 ring and luckily the first heartwood ring was large enough so thats what i went for. After I did this I took 220 grit sand paper and sanded is all down. I noticed after doing this there were while streaks that almost look like sapwood? Is that normal? Do I have a problem?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: formerbutcher on January 18, 2011, 09:09:00 PM
I didn't see any pictures ?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:26:00 PM
Did you click the link? they should be there? I dont know how to put them directly on the forum
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: vanillabear? on January 18, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:29:00 PM
Darn... Do you guys know how to get them directly on the forum?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:30:00 PM
http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/?action=view¤t=Picture016.jpg    does this one work?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: vanillabear? on January 18, 2011, 09:34:00 PM
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:34:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture016.jpg)        this one should work then.. I hope
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: vanillabear? on January 18, 2011, 09:35:00 PM
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:35:00 PM
Thanks for the tip vanillabear  (http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture002.jpg)  demon hole knot
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:36:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture001.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture009.jpg)   getting down to the first heartwood ring. it was thick enough to use as back
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:38:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture013.jpg)  left some wood around these larger knot areas.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:39:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture012.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:42:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture015.jpg)  these are the white stripes I was talking about. they are alot clearer in person. I am positive they are not sap wood because they are deeper than most of the back but they never really stuck out until I sanded it down with 220 grit.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: vanillabear? on January 18, 2011, 09:43:00 PM
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 09:43:00 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:40:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture018.jpg)                                       bow after poly
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:41:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture022.jpg)                                   More bow after poly
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:43:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture020.jpg)   Hump in the stave
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:44:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture019.jpg)    Knots after poly. the largest one will be in the handle area on finished bow
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:45:00 PM
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:47:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture023.jpg)        The largest knot that I did not leave an island of sap wood aorund. Do you guys think this will cause a problem?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 18, 2011, 10:48:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture024.jpg)    close up of the beast
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Osagetree on January 19, 2011, 05:20:00 AM
Flip the tips and sinew back the bow and you'll have a heck of a heavy weight plains horsebow that'll kill a buffalo at 15yrds.
Believe it or not,,, one of my first osage selfbows was only 42" @ drew 55lbs @ 19". It was not backed and would put a feild point thru 1/4" plywood at 15yrs.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 19, 2011, 05:38:00 PM
Does the back ring of a selfbow have to be perfectly smooth? mine has some parts in it where it is kindof scratched out and ridgid in small areas? I am probobly going to sinew back but if I didnt do you think those scratches would cause the bow to break?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: ranger 3 on January 19, 2011, 06:35:00 PM
You can not violate the back ring period
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 19, 2011, 08:02:00 PM
I took a razor blade and scrapes all the small scratches out of he back and got it super smooth with 220 grit sandpaper. I am going to recurve the last 4 inches on each limb. Do you think I should leave the back nice and wide, it is between 2 and 1/2 inches to 3 inches on the midlimb areas the bottom limb is slightly wider and it has a hump with a little twist in it. Should I leave it that width or minimize the larger limb or both?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: broketooth on January 19, 2011, 08:11:00 PM
you did a very good job at makin that ring look pristine.  good luck with the rest of your plan. im interested in how it turns out. ruddy
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Osagetree on January 19, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
I'd go no more than 1 1/2"  wide. Really 1 1/4" and a D shape cross section rather than a flat bow design.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 19, 2011, 10:42:00 PM
Allright. I will do that. thank you osagetree.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 19, 2011, 10:50:00 PM
Does anyone know if polyeurathane will come off in a steam bath? and will it help prevent checking when bending the osage after the steaming if it survives the steam bath?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: DVSHUNTER on January 20, 2011, 03:12:00 AM
I've had bad luck with steam and poly. Use shellac. It holds up to steam like a champ.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: John Scifres on January 20, 2011, 07:06:00 AM
You can put the shellac right over the poly.  It'll do the job.

Osage can have sapwood looking stuff mixed in the heartwood, usually in younger rings or those close to the bark.  It also frequently happens around knots and forks or where two trees grow together.  However, I am working a tree now that has super thick rings and I am finding whitewood throughout its almost perfect 19 years of growth.  Go figure.

I'd get rid of that knot at midlimb.  How wide is it there?  It will casue problems with a bendy handle bow.

Also, I would not leave sapwood band-aids around knots.  I have had them pop and lift a splinter in the heart.

Good luck.  Keep posting.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 20, 2011, 04:21:00 PM
It is 2 3/4 inches where the knot is. I Will try to make the bow around it
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 20, 2011, 10:50:00 PM
For my bow making process once I have the stave in the general shape of the bow im gonna put some shellac on it and steam it to flip up the tips. After this I am going to apply the sinew and let it finish its drying process. For applying the sinew with TB3 do I need to sand off all of the shellac or can the sinew go ontop of the shellac? And once I am finished with the bow I intend to put shellac ontop of the sinew. Is that ok or does shellac cause problems with the sinew?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: John Scifres on January 21, 2011, 05:01:00 PM
Is the stave dry?  If so, you'd have better luck using a heatgun.  It takes only a few minutes to do a tip and is much more controllable.

Don't sinew the stave until it is dry.

I would not sinew on top of shellac.

Shellac on top of sinew will be fine.  I prefer spray polyurethane though.  Shellac is too shiny.  But, you can put a light coat of satin spray poly on top of shellac.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Art B on January 21, 2011, 06:23:00 PM
I don't know about sinewing over shellac with the TB3 but I use either tru-oil or spar urethane under my sinew jobs using that glue. This prevents any moisture from enter the wood. Believe it or not, but the TB3 sticks better to some type of a varnished surface better than the wood itself (just make sure to scuff up the finish before gluing).......Art
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 21, 2011, 07:34:00 PM
Thanx guys. How would you sugjest scuffing up the sinew? with sandpaper? If so what grit?
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: hova on January 21, 2011, 07:38:00 PM
use yer teeth

:thumbsup:


-hov
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Art B on January 21, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
I was referring to the glossy surface on a varnished finish. I use a piece of worn 18o grit for that......Art
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 21, 2011, 10:05:00 PM
Thats what I ment, sorry. Thank you for the advice.
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:30:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture026.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:31:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture027.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture028.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture029.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:33:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture030.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:34:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture031.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:35:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture032.jpg)         those lines on the back are where im going to recurve the tips
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:35:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture025.jpg)
Title: Re: 49 inch osage
Post by: Axes bows n knives on January 29, 2011, 08:36:00 PM
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n582/christhebowyer/Picture034.jpg)