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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: ranger 3 on December 14, 2010, 03:14:00 PM

Title: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 14, 2010, 03:14:00 PM
Well I just started this on the long string, what do you think?
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0554.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Pat B on December 14, 2010, 03:45:00 PM
Looking good. Right limb a bit stiffer for now.   Don't pull it much farther with the string that long. Get it close to bow length. Also, come back towards the fades an inch or two for now too.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2010, 03:56:00 PM
I quit using that type long tillering string. I lost a few bows using it. You think it's looking good and then put on a real string and everything changes. I cut my string grooves in and use a regular longer bow string from the start. When I first string the bow, I have the extra long bow string laying tight againist the belly side of the handle. Use the Bowyers knot to shorten the string as I go along after working the limb tips to maybe 3 inches, then shorten the string to get a 2 inch brace height then take the limb tips to about 5 inches, then shorten the string and keep doing that till I am at my regular brace height of 6.5 inches. Then I tiller out the bow the rest of the way.. But the bow is looking nice.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Art B on December 14, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
As Roy mentioned, you can sometimes get a dramatic change going from that long string to a shorter string. Your profile right now should show more bending right out of the fades and stiffer outer limbs.

Never did like that long string boot system. Like Roy, I go ahead and cut my string grooves in and use a long string that will barely fit from nock to nock. This allows me to use a temporary short string also once I have the bow to the proper brace height on the tillering tree. This gives a true measurement of how close I'm to brace height/even tiller.

Just work those fades some more like Pat suggested and your bow will shape up a little better for you.

Looking good though.......Art
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 14, 2010, 05:10:00 PM
Thanks for the commits, Pat there is a knot about 8" from the tip of the right limb that I have had trouble getting it to bend there. That long is just long enough to get it on, it must really stretch. I might cut the groves in and use a longer string like Roy says.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2010, 05:42:00 PM
I highly suggest it ranger. Also when you first string the bow and the string is tight againist the belly of the handle, you can look down the center of the bow tip to tip and see how the string lines up with the center of the limbs and the center of the handle. Then if need be you can make adjustments with your string grooves or whatever ya need to do.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: broketooth on December 14, 2010, 08:17:00 PM
can you show mor pics of what your stave looks like as you ar working on it such as back , belly profile. filing in the nocks. how much character you are working with, heating in reflex if thats what you plan to do. im interested in your progress. ruddy
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 14, 2010, 09:02:00 PM
LOL. I always long string tiller with a string about 1.5 times longer than the bow. I tiller out to 10 inches of string movement. There are buildalongs on my site. You need to get more near handle wood moving. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: John Scifres on December 15, 2010, 08:37:00 AM
I agree about getting the inner thirds, especially on the right limb, moving more.  There is a spot maybe 8" from the fade on the right that is getting a bit hingy.

I use the booted long string to about 10" of tip movement.  I do this in lieu of floor tillering.  However, it changes the string angle and therefore the leverage and therefore the apparent weight of the bow.  A bow feels heavier with the long string.  This can cause you to think you have more weight to work with than you actually do.  You can counter this by going to the shorter string earlier or by ignoring the apparent weight for now.  All I am trying to accomplish at this point is to even things up and get the bow moving a bit.  

If I have roughed the bow out right, I should be close to where I need to be on weight at this point.  This is done by getting bows roughed out perfectly in profile and pretty close to final thickness, less than 5/8" across the whole limb, before starting to bend.

I always tended to pull too hard on a bow too early when I shortened the string too early.  It's probably a mental thing for me since I judge the weight early in the tillering instead of actually weighing it  :)   Maybe I should be a little more scientific.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 15, 2010, 03:47:00 PM
Ok here it is at 16" with a brace of 3"
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0555.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 15, 2010, 04:37:00 PM
Way too flat just outside the fades, and needs to bend more out at the other marks at the end of the limb tips. Last 8 inches of the limb tips should not bend. Left outer limb isn't too bad, but needs some work. You'll get it.. Just go slow. Do you have a tillering gizmo? Don't pull it past where you already have till you get them limbs bending better.

 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/aabow.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Pat B on December 15, 2010, 04:37:00 PM
Left limb looks good. The right looks a bit stiff right off the fades. She is ready for full brace height. How does the string track when braced? Have you tested the weight?
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Pat B on December 15, 2010, 04:39:00 PM
Now that Roy posted the highlights I see the flat areas.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 15, 2010, 04:59:00 PM
Thanks guys, the string in right down the middle of the handle. I do have a tillering gizmo
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 15, 2010, 05:09:00 PM
Great, the gizmo is a cool tool.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Art B on December 15, 2010, 06:41:00 PM
Without a back and unstrung side profile look-see
there's just no way to know what needs what.........Art
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: hova on December 15, 2010, 09:03:00 PM
i was thinking the same thing art. just looking at those pics , it looks so thick throughout. im no ring chaser yet , but the gizmo should have you working a little closer to the tips.


and dont let the 8x/2x thickness/width rule scare you. it takes more than you think to really make a spot go bad.

using a cabinet scraper?

-hov
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 15, 2010, 10:12:00 PM
It's not looking all that bad. Just needs a more even arc. Has a few flat spots that needs wood removed from. Ranger, you said a 3 inch brace height and looks like the limb tips are down there a good bit. I'd brace it to 6 inches and use the tillering gizmo to get an even arc.

 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/aaaaabow.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 16, 2010, 09:55:00 AM
Here is the latest
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0562.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0560.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: John Scifres on December 16, 2010, 12:08:00 PM
Still need to get the inner third bending more.  Don't touch the center third again until you do.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: John Scifres on December 16, 2010, 12:12:00 PM
Green means GO, red means STOP.

 (http://sticknstring.webs.com/photos/2010-Pictures/ranger.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 16, 2010, 03:50:00 PM
Any better? You guys have been a lot of help keep it coming.
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0564.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2010, 04:32:00 PM
Ranger, look at the profile of it. Do you see how flat the limbs are just outside each fade? That area needs to bend more on each limb. Do not take any wood off any place else on the bow, until you get those two flat areas bending. You need to take wood off where the limbs are flat.
 (http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/abcbow.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 16, 2010, 04:41:00 PM
Thanks Roy I'll work on them area's
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: broketooth on December 16, 2010, 05:10:00 PM
nice progress . i see yor stave is looking cool with a little character in one limb im trying to learn from your project as well as mine.cool stuff, keep the pics coming. ruddy
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Pat B on December 16, 2010, 11:19:00 PM
Ranger, I hope I didn't scare you away from the fades with my suggestions! d;^)  Bring that bend back to the fades and you will be on your way there. You are soooo close!
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 17, 2010, 10:19:00 AM
Ok here it is at 18" I think he looks pretty good. What ya think?
 (http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0566.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 17, 2010, 10:56:00 AM
Roy and John, good stuff. Ranger, don't be yanking that thing to 18 i w/o fixing those areas. That's needlessly stressing the stave.  :)  Jawge
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 17, 2010, 12:10:00 PM
after a little more work on the fades.
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0567.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: John Scifres on December 17, 2010, 01:19:00 PM
Now we're talking!

Here' the second new pic overlaid on the first.  See how it's bending more out of the fades.  You still need a touch on the right.

 (http://sticknstring.webs.com/photos/2010-Pictures/ranger2.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 17, 2010, 01:36:00 PM
Thanks John
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 17, 2010, 04:28:00 PM
Much better. Now a little more work on the right fade area and maybe just a tad on the left, but it's looking great.. Ya did well Dude. And don't forget to use that gizmo...
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 17, 2010, 05:24:00 PM
Bad news, I tempered the belly and must have had a brain **** and took it off the form and bent it and it exploded big time. What makes me mad is I knew better. Well now I have to get another stave.
Thanks for all the help and I learned a lot from this site.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: John Scifres on December 17, 2010, 06:45:00 PM
Daggummit!  2 weeks minimum wait time for me after tempering the belly.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 17, 2010, 07:13:00 PM
Much better but not there yet. Near handle wood needs to bend more. Jawge
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 17, 2010, 09:57:00 PM
Ranger.

ROFLMAO...

Why did ya temper the belly son? Ya had it going Dude. But things happen I guess. Don't feel bad, just get another stave and get er done:) We all been there done that dumb stuff...  

Now a simple request here. Can we see a picture of the brain fart bow explosion? :)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: broketooth on December 18, 2010, 06:57:00 AM
wow i was hoping to see you finish the bow before mine. i guess i wont be temering the belly on mine any time soon.my be you can salvage whats left. get a billit and make a new limb and a 2 peice bow sleeve perhaps. let us know. ifn you dont go the 2 peice route you can always back knife handles out of the rest of the carnage. ruddy
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: ranger 3 on December 18, 2010, 08:21:00 AM
Here it is Roy, broketooth that is a good idea and if I hadn't thrown the last broken away I would have tried it. I'll save this one.
 (http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/ranger500us/IMG_0568.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: Pepper on December 18, 2010, 08:29:00 AM
Man I feel for you. I don't build bows, but was having a great time on this build.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: John Scifres on December 18, 2010, 09:33:00 AM
Yep, classic break from not waiting.  Don't ask me how I know  :)   Get back in the saddle right away.  At least it's an easy post-mortem.  The ones that kill me are the ones I can't figure out.
Title: Re: Working on a 58" Osage
Post by: DVSHUNTER on December 20, 2010, 10:55:00 PM
bummer man. Sorry to see that. Best get back to building