Well now I have cut down a larger cedar stump 8" diameter and a little over 70". It has the bark peeling off. I plan on taking slow I am not going anywhere for a year (A little over 10 months but who is counting). Well since I got the stump cut down today I will split it tomorrow and see what kind of staves I can get. I will post pics and ask lots of question about lay outs or designs for it. This wood is hard and close ringed. I know it is a cedar by the livening ones and the smell of the wood as it was cut with a chain saw. it is a light colored other than that we are going to see what it will do. Here is a pic of the stump it is about 72" tall before it was cut down. My Soldier think I am crazy but they will see HAHAHAHAHA.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Archery/Ceder.jpg)
i wasn't into making bows last time i went, but when i was mayor of Convoy Support Center SCANIA, i made sure to make friends with the KBR woodshop guy. It always pays to have access to tools. I don't know what FOB you're on, or what mission set you have, but good luck with the mission and the bow. try buddying up to KBR for tool access, it may help. i will watch your post for useful in country bowyering TTPs, for when i go back.
Loren,
I am at warrior, and I have not found the KBR carpenter shop yet. My fist and second time I knew where wood tools were. This time I have not found it yet. I plan only to do a little at a time. I am the 1SG for now. Until the new one comes in. god will I will have it split and get pics up.
Thanks agian,
Kelly
Ok got it split. Do any of you see a bow hiding in any of these? I don't yet. Is 64" to short for a 28" draw for a long bow. If not I may know where a bow is hiding. the following PIC are of the splitting and split staves. It is very dry and checked on the end. There are a few just under the bark.
Unsplit log and tools
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/DSC01167.jpg)
Starting to come apart, it took a little bit the axe keep trying to pop out but once I figured out the start point she came apart.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/DSC01168.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/DSC01169.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/DSC01172.jpg) as you can see she made three splits why because that is what the wood wanted to do. Now I just got to figure out what part wants to be a bow. the left on is the one I am looking at. It I have a bout a 64" length that .
Here is a pic of the end exposed to the element to long and the other that I just cut.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/DSC01173.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/DSC01174.jpg)
here is the one I am think about and he last 18" or so that give me pause. In put would be really good. Should I just burn it now and enjoy the smell of burning cedar. Should I try to chase a ring by using the checks on the end and see what is underneath. :dunno: The other two have big knot and a like more checking under the bark. Thanks for the help.
Does the wood feel strong and hard when you split it. One thing you could do is make a minature bow out of a piece and see how it does. If it works well just scale it up to full length.
The end checks look bad but as long as they go with the grain they are workable. When you get your tips shaped super glue the remaining checks and work on.
the center is softer but you can kind of see it in the pic that has it split but the outer wood is better. about a 1/4 of the way from the outer. so 3" inches or so.
the center is softer but you can kind of see it in the pic that has it split but the outer wood is better. about a 1/4 of the way from the outer. so 3" inches or so.
Kelly, try a minature version and see how it does. Another option would be to just cut a small slat, even out the thickness and see how well it bends and recovers.
Will do thanks
Watching this one closely.
Oh please not to close I have seen your work and it my make me nervous!
Good for you Kelly, way to find something to pass the time. Hope this comes out in working order. Take care and I'll be watching!
-Jeremy :coffee:
Target Build Along
Ok today I decided that if I get a bow I don't have a target. I had mentioned this target to one of the other members here. I thought to myself I need a target for I am awaiting my fist tradbow (I will talk more about this in PowWow later). I man one of these types when I first started shooting a bow. I did not have on and a friend told about it. I know it will stop a arrow leaving an old PSE Polaris pull 60lbs when the target is less than 5yrds. I know because I started in my basement in AK during my first winter there and only had 30ft diagonal across the basement. I would shot at 15' the 30' every day and it lasted all winter. Enough about it meager history.
Long story short. I was trying to split one of the staves to make it smaller. I notice a large splinter popping up from the really bad checked end. I put the axe under it and got a splinter 4' long and it think a candidate to make a test bow just to see if it bends at all. It is 2" wide at its widest point and narrows to about 1" on one end. I did some test and could get it to bend a little.
relaxed
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Archery/Target/IMG_0851.jpg)
pressure
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Archery/Target/IMG_0852.jpg)
one of the staves with all of these guys
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Archery/Target/IMG_0846.jpg)
So what should I do now, I am think of trying to shape the splinter into a shape that more resembles a bow and try to tiller it and see how well it bends. I am think just keep the middle 41/2" at the 2" width and drop to 11/2" and mid and 1/4" tips just to see what It will do not trying to send any arrow just want to know if it will bend a 46" piece I really don' know what to expect. The other think is this stuff does not creak or pop it just breaks. I have test some other smaller splinters and that is what they did. bending, bending and beak.
Well any suggestion and all suggestions are welcome and asked for.
Scale down the dimensions of the full size bow when you make the mini bow so you can get an accurate test.
Ok Pat B I will do it strait taper form the fade to the end. Do you think this piece is big enough? I am planing on just getting as long as a piece as a can and as wide as I can with as few checks in it as possible. I hope it will be 58" and 2" at the fades to about .5" at the tips and what ever weight I can get at around 27". I just want to get one built. LOL
As long as it is scaled down the actual size doesn't matter. A 6" bow will act just like a 60" bow if it is to scale.
Get as long a piece of bow wood as you can. With unknown woods longer and wider is better(to a point).
Ok to day I was able to get something drawn in the back or layout for a mini bow. I am think I may need to relook at it. I laid out the middle a little big 4" that would be the handle and fades also. I made it 11/2" wide at fade and 1/4" at tips It looks off to me. I want be able to get back to it for a few day. I may try to get it to pull 25lbs at 131/2". If I am able to do this then I should be able to just scale it up and try a full size.
I may also look at trying to get it closer to a half size bow of what I want. That would put the total length at 29" and 1" wide at the fade and still a 1/4" at the tips with weight and draw being the same. I will also need to make the handle only 2" and that would make it a true half size of what I would like to do.
Thanks pat B
Oh one last thing what is the trick to finding the center line on wood a little bent. I cant remember.
How's it comin' Kelly? Looking for an update.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Try this! I used Eric's Gizmo, added two dowels(broken arrow)to the back side and it works like a charm. I usually use it with one side forward first then put the other side forward and split the difference. Has worked well for me.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/gizmomulti-use2.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/gizmomulti-use5.jpg)
Thanks Pat B,
I have done this on that stave you gave me. Now I remember.
I just got back after going out and check on one of my soldier not in my location to see how they were doing. Now that I am I should have came on here first I just laid out the dimensions I am going to cut the bow down to. Good news is I have not cut anything yet, bad news I drew in permanent mark so I could take PICS. Well tomorrow is another day and I will getter done.
Thanks for your help,
Kelly
Today I used the modified gizmo to correct my center line and relayed out the bow. I even got one side down just outside my lines. I will get the other side down tomorrow. the handel is also down to profile. I will get some pics of the mini test bow and my progress. The good news is there is some flex it the limb so far
Happy Thanksgiving Kelly! Glad you got a chance to do some more work. Looking forward to seeing some pics!
-Jeremy :coffee:
Ok I got some more done between today and last night. I got it roughed out to at least a shape the resembles a bow. I need to file it down to my lines. I also still need to get a side profile measured out and thin to it. One tip is already at a .25" thick and the other is just a little over .5" . The handle area is around .5". I will probably go down to the .25 across the whole back except the handle and will leave it at eh .5.
Here are some PICs of it thru the process.
Here is just a PIC of one limb with all my mistakes while drawing it on. RED lines are the ones I used.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/RedlinesCorrectProfile.jpg)
Here is the first limb I got close just to my lines.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/LimbNearProfile.jpg)
Here is the handle near where I want it.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/HandleNearProfile.jpg)
Here is Pic of one limb cut down and the other still needing to be done.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Onesidedone.jpg)
Next is of me working on a limb to day
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/CuttingdowntoprofileCloseup.jpg)
and yes that is a multipurpose tool I used. That and since it would be for a baby archer, I guess when it is a mine bow it will be named Gerber.
Next is one of the bow near profile.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/CuttdowntoprofileFileingneeded.jpg)
I still have a lot of work. I have measured 1/4" down the side and need to start thinning each limb. To as close as I dare then file down every where to my marks. She should be bending then I hope. Fill checks with super glue.The tiller to 25lb @ 13.5" Then try and find a piece on one of the 3 staves and start all over on a much lager one.
Oh do you think if it turns out it would be ok for a 5yr old if I get it down to even less weight. One of my soldiers has a son almost 5, and I think it might be a good for him. We have brown paper here and I thought it might be cool if his dad and I drew on it and slapped it to the back and sent it two him.
Thanks for the help and moral boost,
Kelly
where there is a will there is a way.
KellyG. I got your PM on the bow swap and will get ahold of you on it some time.
Stiks
Stiks,
will do, Just thought it might be away for to get to enjoy the unknown of it also.
Thanks,
Kelly
Kelly, When I build a bow I just remove wood from the belly until it bends the way I want it then reduce the weight until I get that where I want it. I generally start at about 3/4" thick(for a full sized bow) at the fade/limb point and reduce from there.
That bow should be fine for the little one. He might need it with a bit less weight...maybe 15# to 18#@13" to 15". Be sure to shoot this bow in well before sending it off. Better it breaks with you than the 5yo. Hopefully it won't break for either.
Thanks,
Pat GI will try and get it exercised up then. While I try and get a bigger one started. I have never made any arrows and here there is a lot of cane. I may try and to make a few cane arrows with bunts or heck I have seen a lot of the nerf bullets here and glue some of them on the end. Any way thinks I am going to get more shaved off tomorrow and will post more pics of the progress. Once I hit my goal I will make it lighter.
Thanks Again,
Kelly
Thanks for the update KellyG. It's looking real good. I think it's a great idea to give it to a five y.o. What a neat gift to receive from a dad so far away. That's something to hold on to. Happy belated Thanksgiving!
-Jeremy :coffee:
Welcome Jeremy it is fun and plus I get a lot of needed help.
No Pics today I worked on thinning one of the limbs trying to get it down to about a 1/4 inch or so. I have one limb almost there slow going with the knife I may try and find a rasp tomorrow. I heard someone might have one in a tool kit. If not I have time. Once I get the limb down to close to 1/4 inch I will post pics. I am getting a little more flex in the limb but know where near enough to even think of a short string. I will also have to get the other limb done and plus cant forget to work on the side profile and file, scrap or sand down to my lines. I hope my next weekend to have her ready for tillering.
thanks,
Kelly
Ok I have made some progress. I have thinned the limbs enough to put a string on it (long string). I am using the guts of 550 cord (para cord) I think it stretches a lot not sure. I put it on a scale and get 24 lbs at around 10" not sure how much of this is string or bow. I don't think I am getting that much flex out of the bow.
I need to dress up the side profile I should not lose too much weight when doing so. I am only less than 1/8 on either side. Then bend and gizmo the heck out of it. Try to brace 3-4" and get it to 25 lbs at 131/3".
It has not made any noises at all, but I have bent some of this wood to breaking points. It did not make any noise that I heard on the smaller splinters they just broke.
At rest on the Tree (remember this is only 34" long, a mini of the bow I want to make)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/resting.jpg)
Pulling about 9.5 inches but I just don't know if I am getting a lot of string stretch. I may have to tie one end of the string off and measure the string; then pull and see how much is has stretched.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/about10inch.jpg)
Here it is on the Scale about 8-10" but again I don't know how much is string stretch.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/238atabout8inch.jpg)
Well I will not be doing much of the tree until I get the profile done. I have pulled it several times on the tree and on the scale. I think the left is weaker than the right. I know both have a little twist and I think it may be trying to hinge on the right limb at the fade. but hey that is what tillering is for. Feel free and correct me if I am wrong and see something I have not. I know it is not bending very far yet and you can't see a lot from the pic.
Thanks'
Kelly
What variety of cedar is this?
Stagmitis,
I have not got the foggiest of ideal. I am about 99% sure it is a cedar, buy the needles and smell. It grows over here and a lot of them have died. I found a straight stump that was over 6' with few knots, and now am trying a test mini bow. We will all see if it works out. I am hopeful at this point, as long as I do not get ahead of myself.
I may see if I can get PICs of a live and dead tree and post it heck someone may know what kind this is.
Kelly
This might be a really juvenile question, but is any wood going to work for being a bow? You hear of Yew, Osage alot as being the staples of many English and maybe North American Indian and the like, but since you can go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a pine board.. so to speak, and make a bow out of it, is any wood going to be not good.. individual properties and all taken into account?
Much Aloha.... :archer2:
QuoteOriginally posted by KellyG:
Stagmitis,
I have not got the foggiest of ideal. I am about 99% sure it is a cedar, buy the needles and smell. It grows over here and a lot of them have died. I found a straight stump that was over 6' with few knots, and now am trying a test mini bow. We will all see if it works out. I am hopeful at this point, as long as I do not get ahead of myself.
I may see if I can get PICs of a live and dead tree and post it heck someone may know what kind this is.
Kelly
I like the grain of this bow of yours... whatever it is....
Aloha... :archer2:
looks great kelly. a tip for you , over there in the sandbox , is to look for some stainless steel plate. you can fashion a cabinet scraper that will be much more forgiving on your hands . believe me , i used a swiss army knife on my first bow , and it sucked. a scraper can take off a bit of wood , and im pretty sure you can get your hands on an old file over there , and try to find someone with a torch , heat the file up , and bang it into a drawknife.
if i had funds or tools , i would send ya something. all i can send your way is mojo.
Aol Voice "You've got mojo" ....
keep your head down and your spirits high.
-hov
and it does look like a hinge at the right fade , but what does it look like unstrung? that almost looks like set.
you using a gizmo or just eyeballing it?
If I were home I have a few tools need. Harbor freight has some cheap spoke shaves and rasp. I will look around and see if I can find something to make into a scraper but a file will be harder. I may wait on the full size version until I get back. From R&R in DEC I will send what few tools I have, I have not tried the spoke shave yet. Thanks for the tool thought and the Mojo one can never have enough mojo.
Thanks,
Kelly
Ok she is a bending. Here are the PICs
First is relaxed
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/relaxed-1.jpg)
about bout 9" measured form the bell to the string.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Doublestrand9.jpg)
10" about 23lbs or so right looks stiffer to me and it has some tweist
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/10doubelstrand.jpg)
nest are just he limbs at 10"
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/leftlimb10.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/rightlimb10.jpg)
nest to show the limb twist on the right limb. It is there relaxed also but not as bad
relaxed
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/rightlimbetwistrelaxed.jpg)
Drawn
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/rightlimbtwistdrawn.jpg)
If I have missed something let me know. I think I have noticed all the issues noted but I am just guessing.
Thanks,
Kelly
oh I am now useing 2 stands of para cord. It does not strech as much and one strand broke. While I was measuring the draw and was about to run my very getto gizmo down the limb. Lucky for me I down look up and not up looking down I shot a but 3' in the air.
I thought I had just broke the bow but I have took more wood off and pulled back futher.
Kelly, it is now time to shorten up your string. The long string will give you a false reading after the tips have moved 6" to 8". Make a string and low brace the bow at about 4". This way you can see if both limbs are bending evenly and together and see if the string is tracking down the center of the bow. DO NOT pull that bow any farther on the long string.
You are doing a great job so far. Hopefully the wood will reward you for your good work! d;^)
^^yep.
you could also take a couple strands of 550 guts and twist em into a flemish string. I'd go with 4 strands , twisted into two, then together into your string.
if you're using 550 , iirc each internal strand is 27# , so looks like that little bow got some guts!
also, you might be able to salvage some leaf springs off of downed vehicles. this can be made into a decent drawknife for ya.
-hov
Thanks Pat B and Hova,
Todays mission shorten string. As far as a draw knif I may be able to come up with one or something similiar if I need it. For this little guy the knife is working well as a scraper
You all still use bayonetes in your craft? I've seen a cane knife used with a handle on both sides used as a sort of draw knife to finish up hoe handles out of 2X2's in the field... unfortuantely that was 50 years ago so don't have the details of the "how" the handle part was fashioned but it slipped over the blade end of the cane knife... but it seemed to work...
Aloha... :archer2:
Ok no wood removed a paper work day, I did shorten the string this is the shortest I could get it and get the string on. It's smaller size does not make it easy. I is braced only about 1/4". Pat B is this enough or do I need to get the tips more flexed so yall can see. Here are the Pics.
Close up
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/shorterStringBracedCloseup.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/shorterStringBracedCloseupRight.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/shorterStringBracedCloseupLeft.jpg)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/bowstave/Ceder%20project/shorterStringBraced.jpg)
I did put it on the scale with this new string and put it on the scale I only got it to about 17lbs. I still can get about 10" pull out of it.
Thanks,
Kelly
Kelly, that will work fine. As long as the string is off the bow so you can see if the string lines up down the bow. It will act like a regularly braced bow with the string like you have it. It is the angle of the string at the tips and the direction of pull that causes the problem. With a long string the string pulls more down instead of inward like a braced bow pulls.
She's looking pretty good so far, Kelly. How does the string track?
Pat it tracks of to one side. about a 1/4 for the edge. I believe this is for 2 reasons.
1) the wood was bent that way
2) the little bit of limb twist in it.
I am not too worried about the string not being centered. From what I have read and seen on here that is not as big and issue. as long as I make the rest on the side the string is closest too. I will get some PICs of the string tracking and of any progress I make tomorrow. I now have three strands of the 550 cord gut and the string stretch is down. I know this because I don't as much pull as I was getting. It feels better or more solid with the 3 strands also.
Thanks Pat B,
Kelly
Kelly, check the thickness of each limb from side to side. If one side it thicker than the other it will pull the limb over. You can also use this to correct twisted or bent limbs by making one side thicker than the other.
On this little bow I wouldn't worry about it.This was mainly an experiment to see if this wood will actually survive as a bow.
you could also try cuttibg the opposing side nock a little deeper, or maybe just djust your string a bit
Ok I made a real gizmo found a nut, strung it up and put it on my tree; exercised the limbs a few times by pulling back a little and riding forward. I did this a few time and went to pull it all the way to 9" and took my eye off of it and .......................................................................
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/gillk/Broken.jpg)
I pulled a little too hard. It is ok cause now I get to try again. I think I will see what the stave offers. If it gives me a 6'x3" piece I will try for a 40lb bow if not then we will see just what the wood wants to be. Since I can't hunt deer I am hunting for the bow, round one bow.
To me this is like the feeling you get when the deer is out front you and you have your bow drawn and you are waiting for just the right moment and next thing you know the white tail is all you see. I am just happy to have been in the stand to begin with. I will be back in the preverbal woods again and soon.
Thanks all for input and advice,
Kelly
Keep at it and stay safe. Come home soon and thank you!
Thanks highpoint
KellyG, you have a great attitude and your son is certainly lucky. Keep trying I'm lovin' reading along on this thread.
Man, my nephew just got back from over there a few weeks ago, now make sure you get home. And thank you. Thanks for the posts and especially for your service.
Stan
I'm thinking cedar would be best backed with something. Is there anyway to get any rawhide there? If not maybe I could send you some.
Thanks red hill
b,
I have not tried to look for rawhide. I have seen them slaughter sheep, goats and cows on city streets when I was in Mosul (talk about fresh meat). I have seen the sheep skins in shops but have not really looked or asked about rawhide, I may now. Glue for rawhide I think maybe a problem here. I was going to try and back it with brown paper, I did have a roll over here somewhere. I just got to remember where I put it.
I am going home for R&R soon and am planning on packing and mailing me some titebond III, spoke shave, file and string wax. I need to order some B50 though; I have been using 550 cord guts and some how don't think that will make a very long lasting string.
Thanks again both of you,
Kelly
I use artificial sinew.. 400yards for 10$.
I have a black & white 4 strandx2 flemish , and a natural colored 5x2strand flemish , with a figure * knot I believe ...
flemish are so easy to make.you get another bow going , let me know your overall length , ill whip a fat long string for ya. I used mine to tiller , then cut the excess off and its been great.
-hov
Thanks Hova, I will let you know. If I ever get one too stay to gather.
Sorry to see about your bow Kelly. But, like you said, you get to try another one. Hope your R&R is relaxing.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Good luck in round two. Curious to see what you can do with that cedar!
sorry about the bow Top. better luck on round two, ofcourse you have the right attitude about the whole process and that helps. I used to get so upset about breaking anything (in truth i still do sometimes) but there is so much to learn from every part of making a bow. even the breaking one part teaches you something.
PM me your APO (or use AKO, i am loren.holland), we're gonna have to do something about you working with a multi-tool.
best of luck brother,
CPT H
Looks like an exciting explosion...like you need one! d;^) Put those pieces back together and see if you can figure what went first. Broken bows are great teachers that most folks disgard out of discuss but I keep them around for reference.
You might find the weakness in that wood and design your next bow that will deal with its weakness.
Loren,
I will hit you up on AKO.
Pat B,
my soldiers burned the splinters, of my staves and bow to burn some paperwork. I have fum making splinters they have fum burning them. Win win. I did put i back and looked at it but it just went like my smaller test pieces did. No creaking or cracking just broke. I know where the failure was in this project and it was not the wood. I was the Hmmmmm bowyer if you can call him that. Got the short string on per you suggestion and it was bending and look like a bow. I got excited and tried to do three things at once and well I am still shell shocked. :o
Kelly
Those spurts of excitement will do it every time! We have all been there.
I'd venture to say it was a back failure meaning the tension strength is weak and when overstressed the back failed. A paper backing may be in order before you go too far with the rest. As dry as the air is there many woods we use for bows here would fail in that arid climate. You might try storing your staves in the shower house or near the kitchen where there is usually more humidity.
Pat B thanks for the insight. I will continue my attempt. I do have brown paper and that is what I had planned on doing with that one and round 2. I figure if I can make a shoot able bow out of this wood here, when I get back I will be able to turn hickory in to a bow without any issues.
I think you are right about learning on this unknown wood. Other woods will be a breeze when you have good bow building bow wood, proper tools and better working conditions.
Too bad there isn't some type of wood over there that's more flexible yet strong like Osage.
You've definitely got the will to get it done Kelly! I've been reading your post and I know you have what it takes to build a nice bow. Your only problem is your limited resources. I'd love to see what you could build in a nice wood shop with all the proper tools and materials at your disposal.
Keep trying......and keep us in the loop!
God Bless and keep your head down brother!
SEMO
Thanks,
For the kind and encouraging words, and I will keep you posted. I will be on R&R and will be out of the loop traveling over the next few days.
I will pick up in round 2. Plus I will send myself a little gift box. I had just picke up a spoke shave about a week before I left. I do have a wood file and a camp axe like the one in the pic of the spliting, execpt it has much longer handle. Oh yeah and tite bond III. I will need that for the splice.
Take care and thanks agian,
Kelly