So I'm waiting on a friend to put some serving on the string on my 1st board bow so I had time to start another. It's Red Oak with Walnut. So far it's on the short string 52lbs @ 21.5" and I think it's looking good. I did want to try an arrow shelf and somewhat of a throat to the grip. Questions I have are
1. What's the shortest I can go on the width in the grip?
2. What's the most distance I can go in with the "throat" part of the grip? Is there a good thickness dimension to stick with?
3. Does this grip even look right?
4. For the shelf how much above center is a good rule of thumb?
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BTW The bow is
62" long
8" handle
2" Wide at the riser
5/8" at the tips
60" Nock to nock
ive never used an overlay on the front, but as far as the throat or narrow section just under the arrow shelf ive gone as deep as leaving about 1/2" thick from the back of the grip to the limb. arrow shelf depends on few diferent things, but generally i try to hit 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 above center. my later bows i build top limb longer, so the shelf is actually only about 1/2" from center. as far as shaping the rest of the handle, side of the throat, etc. i think most of mine are 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch flaring to the fades. also on that bow you should cut your fades, leaving the handle block square there will cause undue stress and may pop it off or splinter it there.
ah, you want to only get the limbs moving 10 inches at your target weight. also 60 inch is pushing it for red oak, especially if you draw 28" only one ive built that short was bend through handle and it stress cracked during tillering, although i was able to save it.
I guess when I say short string it's not quite short like most people do it... my "short" string is slack until 13" on my tiller so it's really only moving 8.5".
ok then youre doing alright.
the overlay on the back of the grip will likely pop off...if you use overlays they need to be shorter than the non-bending grip... my opinion...and 60" is very short for a Red Oak board bow with a stiff handle section.
I really hope it works for you.
Bob
Hmmm would it help to take the size of the overlay down with a file? Also, would the quality of the board help a bit with the length being short trying to get to 50lbs? I'll post a picture when I figure out my wife's camera.
I think what I need is about 2 days with someone who can pass on some common sense with mistakes they learned from. It might save me a few dollars in this endeavor to shoot a deer with a bow I make this year.
So should I cut it down and make a youngin' happy or go slowly and hope for the best?
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quality of the board will help, however its just the simple dynamics that will tell if it fails or not. usually you take draw length, multiply by 2 then add i believe 10%. in an ideal situation with perfect tiller, you could get a 56 inch bow drawing 28", but adding an 8 inch stiff handle takes 8 inches away from working limbs, so you really only have 54 inches to squeeze that draw length out of. personally, unless its a bending handle, i shoot for 65 inches with a 28 inch draw and an 8 inch handle section. if you make the overlay smaller, be careful you dont dig into the back of the bow or it will most likely fail.
well, you may be able to coax it to a 27 inch draw, however this is if you get the tiller great and shorten the front overlay. if you used titebond glue to glue the handle and overlay on a heat gun would help to remove them, and you could essentially start with what you have in the working limbs for a bow with a layered short handle that would allow a bit of flex, or just go with a primitive design bend through handle for a 28 inch draw. it shouldnt be a problem to get a 50# bow out of it doing so, my bend through handle pulls 50#@27". whatever you decide, keep us posted if you have questions we'll try to help. good luck and remember theres always the next one if you hit a snag thats impossible to fix.
Here's what the day brought me... I shortened the overlay quite a bit and cut a shelf in. I did my best not to go into the oak on the inlay but take as much off as I could.
As far as the fades I was going to get some input on how much I should angle them? Haven't quite gone crazy with them yet. Either way I'm going to try to at least finish this bow out and either a little guy has a new bow or somehow I get it to work. Currently 49lbs @ 12" of travel on a short string (because I can't string it quite yet with my bow stringer without feeling like I'm going to snap the bow)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy316/goosegossett14/IMG_3283.jpg)
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looking good... I just realized that you are in Fort Smith...my son and his wife live there too. I live about 2 hours east of you...just north of Morrilton. If you are seriously wanting to make wood bows you need to go to MoJam in a couple of weeks...
Bob
MoJam I've heard of it and I might have to seriously look into it. Thanks for the heads up and the input.
Love Fort Smith. I was in Ozark (just off of 40) for the past 5 years and my wife and I just moved to Fort Smith when I took a job with a church in town.
it's about 3 1/2 hours from here...you just get on hwy 65 and stay on it until you get there...free camping... :) we have been going since year 2...it's absolutely the best way to get more help than you need from great bowyers...
There's some info on tradgang under trad events...July 16-18 but some of us go a little early... :)
My son graduated ATU a year ago and moved to Fort Smith with his wife. She got a job after about 4 months at ArVest but his first there job starts Tuesday...if you know anyone needed a computer geek/web geek/photographer geek...he's your man.
Bob
fades should be a gradual curve from the riser fading into the limb. i use a french curve template that i found online and printed out then glued to some posterboard.
I've used the bottom of a paint can to draw the curve for the fades too... :)
Bob
yep, lol ive improvised more than once for fades. a big roll or masking tape works too, even bigger cups.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bob Barnes:
I've used the bottom of a paint can to draw the curve for the fades too... :)
Bob
Heheheh, since I've seen so many bows with stiff fades, I generally just remove more than I think I should right from the beginning. It tends to help.
60 inches seems rather short, but it can be done I think. I just finished up a hickory recurve with a 4 inch non-bending handle that was about 58 inches nock to nock... So about 27 inches of working limb for a 27 inch draw.
So I haven't quite removed as much as desertfox would have but I made a dent. I strung her up and worked on the tiller a bit. I have a few hinges but braced @ 2" it's pulling 50lbs @ 19.5". I have a feeling that I'll be working on this a while.
Bob do you have directions to MoJam. A buddy and I are putting some serious thought into making the trip for a day or two. Also, if we were to pick a day which would be the best?
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I don't see any hinges...
I would be glad to e-mail you instructions for getting there...it's a piece of cake... :) Once you are on hwy 65 north you don't get off until you get to Marshall, MO., and then you actually go straight into Marshall rather than following 65 to the left...you head straight into Marshall until you get to Erby street(light)...turn right on Erby and follow it past the park and pool, and just as you are passing the golf course there is the little road to mojam camping on the right...there will be a sign there. Follow the dirt road down the hill to where we camp and play... :)
I will likely head up a couple of days early...Friday and Saturday are big days there for planned events like the long shoot and clout shoot and lots of demos...
My e-mail is chickenmafiaster@gmail.com
Braced at 4 1/2" I've got it 49lbs @ 26.5". I draw around 28" when I'm doing it correctly and will overdraw near 29" when not. I drew it back a couple of times and it seems to stack like a pile of books around 25-26". Anything I can do about that or get a couple of more inches out of it? I thought about taking the fades in just a bit more but then on the top limb it will run into the cutout for the rest and I didn't know if I could run the bottom fade further back than the top fade?
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy316/goosegossett14/IMG_3301.jpg)
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it looks like its bending a few inches out of the fades and not at the fades to me.as far as reducing the fades more i usually make the fades 1/2 the length of the handle. for example a 5 inch handle should have 2 1/2 inch fades top and bottom.you could push the fades back into the handle a bit more, id say an inch or so. them being close to the arrow shelf wont hurt too much, as long as its in the thicker part of the fade.
just be careful if you scrape the limbs close to the fades, its easy to take too much and have your handle pop off. i use a hunting knife held straight up and scrape lightly for mine, although a cabinet scraper will work too.
I have to encourage you to listen to what walkabout is saying. I have had a handle pop off because of me fading in to far. I've "made" 16 red oak long bows in two and a half years about. I've had 6 work and they were all 70"+ ranging from 8# to 43# hahaha. It's the bows that are 45#+ that i've had issues with. I've had 5 snap due to my poor tillering or a grain issue. The other 5 i've lost due to compression. I have major issues with red oak and getting it to not develope compression lines in the middle of the limb as i go 45#+. Now i am trying a heat gun to get around that. But i recommend that you check over your limbs each time you pull it father to see if any lines are developing and after the first full day of shooting it.
ive never had to heat treat a red oak board bow, but i have to admit that they can be a challenge when youre working with questionable grain. the most important thing is careful tillering, and excercising the limbs after scraping. also never pull past your intended draw weight because of set. as long as the fades arent hinged and the fade itself is a good gentle curve they shouldnt try to pop off, the fading angle allows them to accept the forces applied right off the limbs and keep them solid into the main part of the handle.ive had 2 bows crack along the edges of the limbs, and by soaking said cracks and the surrounding wood with superglue then wrapping a one inch section around it ive been able to save both of them and even get one to pull 50# when finished.as always, making sure that the working limbs are sharing all the force applied is key to keeping one area from cracking due to stress building on wood that doesnt want to bend.
just learning how to post photos, hope it turns out the right size...this is one of first bows i made that turned out well and is still shooting. I gave it to a buddy when he came back from Afghanistan.
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74/lorenholland/devinsriser.jpg)
I generally back red oak with hickory/pecan. TBB generic dimensions start at 66" TtT, using osage, and given a 10" riser. When using oak, I add 2 inches to that and make mine 68", so that i can have a riser long enough to cut a shelf into. If i need to make the riser shorter than 10", i either shoot off the hand or build up a rest from leather. either way the transition on your fades is very abrupt, almost non-existent.Look on Sam Harpers site, on his board bow build, and there are 3 different pitures of 3 different ways to ensure a riser doesn't seperate. the most common of which fading into the board itself so that there is no pressure on the riser. When you look at the picture above, see how the angle of the fade is continued off the riser into the board
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74/lorenholland/devinsoverlay.jpg)
JLG, i have done handle overlays on red oak bows. totally unneccassary, but aesthically pleasing, and they can round out the grip a bit. make sure that they stay within the limits of the non bending portion of the bow, and you should be fine
These aren't the best pictures, and not my best bows, just the only pictures i had access too at work (yeah, i snuck a few minutes of Tradgang @ work). Hope it shows the points well enough. I am sure someone else might post a better example ;)
The pictures help a ton Loren... for sure I'll be finding some time in the next few days to get after it. I think I was spoiled by the long weekend.