I've got this bow at the beginning stages of tillering. (It's my first bow, and so I'm not really sure what it should look like.) I've had to do a lot of rasping and sanding to get it even to bend on the tree, even with a double pulley system, and I want to make sure I haven't introduced any fatal flaws. How's the tillering look so far?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/bowtillerunmarked.jpg)
If it helps I've added two blue lines to this picture that run exactly parallel to the edge of the one thing I know is actually level in the picture, one above the bow and one below.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/bowtillermarked.jpg)
I think you should get mid limb and on bending more. Jawge
In my non-professional opinion, it looks like all of your bend is the first half of the limbs. I don't see any bend at all from mid-limb out to the tips.
aw... Jawge beat me to it
+1 to Jawge.
Alright, I thinned out the tips some and pulled it again. I swear it looked like it was bending more before I had to let go with one hand to pick up the camera, but given what I got do I need to thin the tips more?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/bowtillerstage2.jpg)
Other questions:
1) I've been pulling the bow to the tillered point about 30 times every time to work out any kinks. Good, bad, not enough?
2) When to add the notches for the string?
3) When to switch from the long tillering string to the actual bowstring?
Thanks everyone, it's very helpful to be able to ask experts.
heres a link which might help you out a little, it explains the steps in tillering, i built my first bow following it. http://poorfolkbows.com/oak7.htm youll want to pull it an inch or two at a time, checking to make sure its bending evenly, which in your pic the right limb looks stiffer. go slowly and dont remove too much at first, as youll end up with a very light bow. get the limbs to pull about 5 lbs under your draw weight while pulling about ten inches, then youre ready to move to short brace if its bending evenly.
using a 4 inch block slid down the inside of the limb helps to show stiff spots and hinges by watching the gap between the block and limb. you can also search this site for"tillering gizmo" and it has a how to build a little tool which is invaluable in bow building. it leaves marks where the stiff spots are when used correctly.you could add your nocks now, it will help in keeping the string in the same place all the time, just dont cut them into the back of the bow deeply.you only need enough to keep the string in the grooves. good luck and keep posting your questions, were glad to help.
Alright, that's helping a lot. I had to fix the tillering tree so I could lock the bow in bent while I ran the block along, but it immediately showed me so stiff spots.
I've made the shallowest nocks I've ever seen. Which should I worry about more: snapping the tip of the bow off, or having the string slip off shallow nocks?
generally you should worry more about the string slipping while pulling it, as long as your nocks are within reason it shouldnt hurt i think most of mine are 1/8" deep or so, but only that deep on the sides.
Make a gizmo, remove wood slowly and your first bow will be a success.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=001047
I think more bending is needed outer third on both sides. And I would move to short string pretty soon. I have learned that staying on long string too long makes the end outcome light. If your getting 10" of travel, cut in the nocks and move to long string. It will also put more pressure on those outer third to give you a more accurate picture.
QuoteOriginally posted by TheBronzeAge:
Alright, I thinned out the tips some and pulled it again. I swear it looked like it was bending more before I had to let go with one hand to pick up the camera, but given what I got do I need to thin the tips more?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/bowtillerstage2.jpg)
Other questions:
1) I've been pulling the bow to the tillered point about 30 times every time to work out any kinks. Good, bad, not enough?
2) When to add the notches for the string?
3) When to switch from the long tillering string to the actual bowstring?
Thanks everyone, it's very helpful to be able to ask experts.
I've made some nocks, and I'll be switching strings next time I tiller (which won't be tonight). I think I'm a few parts short for the gizmo, but I'll beg/borrow/steal what I need.
I'm also seeing a lot of stiffness in the outer ends of the limbs - currently one limb is marked for thinning across the last third and the other for the last half. Hopefully that means I'm getting the hang of seeing the stiff spots.
you can also just drill a hole in the block and wedge the pencil in there thats what i have till i round up the nut for the improved gizmo. another thing is that once you go to short string the areas toward the tips will bend more so you have to go slowly with those areas till youre just about at brace height(6" or so)i excercise my bows about 30 times or so after removing wood too to get the wood used to bending so youre good there. id scrape the outer thirds of the limbs until they bend a bit better then brace it at 3 inches to see where it stands, then move inch by inch till you get it perfect. dont remove too much wood at once or youll create a hinge or end up light.
I've added the nocks and got the ends bending a bit more. Does this look OK to switch to a short string here, or should I get the tips bending more?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/tilleringround3cropped.jpg)
(The blue line is a true horizontal, since nearly nothing else in that picture is)
More bending mid limb on to the nocks. There are buildalongs on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
i agree from midlimb out needs some work. are you checking the draw weight as you go along?its a pretty important thing in the tillering process in itself. never want to go over your target weight or youll get alot of set or string ollow.
I haven't been checking the draw weight, mostly because I don't have any good way to. It's much stronger than it wants to be, though.
I may get a chance to work on it this afternoon, and I'll thin the limbs out overall and especially mid to end.
Jawge - any particular location on your fairly large site that I should be looking for a bow like this?
i use a cheap fishing scale i bought at walmart to weigh in mine, works for up to 50#. used to use a bathroom scale i set my tillering tree on but when i was tillering it gave me inaccurate readings.
Well, you won't be checking draw wieght until you get to short string and then only when its bending even with no stiff spots at brace. And then only checking wieght until you see any sort of hinge or stiff spot you want to back off immediately.
It would be the last thing I would worry about at this point.
QuoteOriginally posted by TheBronzeAge:
I haven't been checking the draw weight, mostly because I don't have any good way to. It's much stronger than it wants to be, though.
I may get a chance to work on it this afternoon, and I'll thin the limbs out overall and especially mid to end.
Jawge - any particular location on your fairly large site that I should be looking for a bow like this?
IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE RIGHT SIDE IS ABOUT RIGHT BUT THE LEFT A LITTLE STIFF YET.(MAYBE JUST A
TOUCH MORE ON THE OUTBOARD RIGHT SIDE.
I THINK YOU COULD NOW GO WITH A LOW BRACE. aRE YOU CHECKING THE WEIGHT AS YOU GO. IF SO DON'T EXCEED YOUR DESIRED FINISHED WEIGHT.
IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE GETTING THERE SO GO SLOWLY.
IF YOU CAN USE A BATHROOM SCALE AND A STURDY STICK WITH A STRING GROVE TO CHECK THE WEIGHT. WEAR A FACE SHIELD IF YOU DO IT THAT WAY. FOLLOW THE PREVIOUS ADVICE YOU RECIEVED ABOUT IT BENDING EVENLY BEFORE YOU WEIGH IT. I WILL LEAVE. TOO MANY COOKS CAN SPOIL THE SOUP!
One thing that you do need to do while you are tillering is you need to have a level on the top because otherwise that will throw off the tillering and how it looks.
Take a look at the board bow buildalong. Keep in mind that is a bend in the handle bow. When I started out I just made it a point to look at as many full drawn bows as I could even if the were fg bows. I'd just step back and look at the full drawn profile. So i would look at the buildalongs on my site. Not because my bows are tillered so well but because they would give you an idea. Jawge
Alright, I've looked at some of these sites you guys have recommended and I spent the afternoon in the garage. Here's what I've got so far.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/tilleredbowround4.jpg)
Now, I know one side is stiff, and I've marked it on the belly of the bow for tomorrow's sanding, but any comments on the even-ness of the bending? I began to think I got the tips too bendy after all that stiffness, but once I flipped the bow on the tree and checked again I couldn't see it. Incidentally, the bow is level (I checked), the board the tree is nailed to is not.
I got all excited that I might actually have a traditional bow before Thanksgiving, and since it was tillered to 10" draw I strung it. The first time it sort of jumped, and I discovered I hadn't cut the nocks deep enough and the string wasn't hooking. I deepened the nocks a bit and re-strung it. Here it is:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/tbowstrunground4.jpg)
That's a funny angle, so I created this composite picture from two shots from directly above.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/bowcompositeimage.jpg)
When I set the bow on its back and checked the height of each limb end there was a 2" difference between the limbs (one was 8" and one was 6"). I marked that, unstrung it, and went inside because it's just broiling out there.
Here's the nocks, by the way. How much deeper can I cut them? The string still looks prone to slipping.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/nocks1.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/nocks2.jpg)
Also, I ended up stringing the bow by putting one end on my right shin, the handle behind my left leg, and pulling the other end around to hook the string. I don't have a stringer, because the only decent archery shop in town has fallen victim to the recession, so I need to know how many years I'll be spending in purgatory for stringing my bow like that, and if I need to order a stringer and delay the project another week.
i string my longbows with the step through method and i haven't had any issues yet i just make sure that i am bending both limbs very evenly while i am stringing it.
If it is too heavy to use the push-pull method of stringing it, then it is too heavy to string. Right limb is way too stiff to string it yet anyway. Get them evened out before stringing it again.
You should cut your nocks at least as deep as the diameter of the srting. You can go deeper but you might also check the angle. It looks like you just went straight across. 45 degrees will work better.
You also need to get more near handle wood moving now. I would not have strung it with the tiler this far off. it just takes more set that way. Jawge
Thanks, Jawge. I was thinking that but I had spent so much time thinking it was OK but having the tips too stiff I didn't really trust my judgment on that anymore.
So I really intended to finish out this bow without further posts, and if it whacked me in the skull that would be a learning experience. However, there's a clear problem on the short string (the blue tape is level):
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/tillershortstringcropped.jpg)
That, in and of itself, isn't the problem. The problem is that I keep scraping the stiff limb and nothing changes. I mean nothing - I put the bow on its back on the same surface, aim each end towards the wall, and no matter how much I scrape both ends touch the same marks they touched before.
Is there something else going on (like, for instance, should I scrape only the outer third of the stiff limb) or do I just need to put more sweat into it?
in that picture the limb on the right is stiffer, no doubt about that. id slowly scrape that, being sure to excercise the limbs afterward so you dont get a false brace/tiller. also check near the fades to see if theyre beginning to bend near them, not a few or six inches out from the fades, much of the time this is an area that can use some work. careful and slow is key though, you dont want a hinge at the fades.the limb on the left looks like it bends a good bit near the tip, so i wouldnt touch that area at all, and if you do scrape the other limb dont take very much off the last third as it looks like its getting thin. also right side looks like theres uneven thickness in the middle of the limb, may be an illusion to me but make certain theres on sudden changes in thickness. hope it works out and you end up with something youre happy with. even if its light, i built a bow for my sister at 33#@ 26" and even though its light it shoots very accurately, great for working on form.
Just keep scraping. Don't lose your patience :) Are you exercising it after scraping?
Done!
It's got some problems, but I'll know what I'm doing with the next one better.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Emb1346/bowfinishedcropped.jpg)
This is a good looking Bow, I'm going to try one myself. the link http://poorfolkbows.com/oak7.htm
also has awesome Information about building a bow, thanks for posting!
looks pretty good, like that pattern.