I've started my first bow. I glued up my riser late yesterday evening and took it out of the heat box this morning. After cleaning it up, and tracing my riser pattern on it, I cut it out and ran it over the sanding wheel. Now, I've got to stain my limb laminates. After that I should be ready to put it all together in the form with some Smooth On and throw it in the heat box.
D.A.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-23-10_1042.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-23-10_1041.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-23-10_1451.jpg)
Looking great so far!
Off to a great start..Nice job on that riser.
That's a cool looking riser. Great job ! If that is your first bow I wonder how the next one, and the one after that, and the one after that.... will be.
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Andy
Well, I've got the parallels and tapers stained and ready. The riser is ready, so tomorrow I'm going to glue it up and put in the heat box. I'll post pictures when it comes out.
D.A.
Looking good. I'll be watching this to see how it turns out. Good luck and have fun.
David
where is Bay located by the way?
Riser looks nice.
QuoteOriginally posted by longbowhntr:
Looking good. I'll be watching this to see how it turns out. Good luck and have fun.
David
where is Bay located by the way?
Bay, Arkansas is located about 8 miles SE of Jonesboro. I'm about 60 miles from Memphis, TN, and 25 miles from the bootheel of Missouri.
David, are you going to be at the traditional shoot at Mayflower on the weekend of June 4th thru 6th? I plan on being there.
D.A.
looks like its coming along great! keep up the good work!
That is going to be a great looking riser!
Well, it's all glued up and in the heat box. You know I've always heard that you can tell a good auto body man by how little body filler shavings there were on the floor. Is that the way it is for bowyers when you're taiking about adhesive? I never heard anybody say how much adhesive is normal when gluing up a bow. Counting the riser, I filled my dixie cups 4 times. Is that too much? I'd rather put too much than too little. Anyway, in 6 hours we'll see what kind of work I've done.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-24-10_1148.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-24-10_1149.jpg)
I like to let my bow and form cool down for a few hours before I let pressure off of it and pull it from form. I use about 8 fluid ounces of smooth on between riser and glue up, I have alot of glue squeeze out when I pump pressure hose up. I used 5 lams plus glass on my last build, I used two 3 oz cups full to top on that glue up,almost had to mix up another mini batch.
I'm using 5 oz. cups, and used 4 between riser and lams.
Nice, I like the wood combo.
T
D.A.
We have not been to one of the shoots at Mayflower but have heard alot of good things about it. We keep saying we are going to go but something seems to come up each time. If we get to make this one I will send you PM and and maybe we could meet up. It most likly would be on Sunday if we do.
David
Here's the results of the heat box. Everything looks gret except for one blemish. Maybe some of you real bowyers can tell what I did wrong, and if the bow will stay together. Here's some pictures.
I started with this.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0014.jpg)
I ended up with a bow blank like this.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0002.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0003.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0004.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0012.jpg)
Here you can see where there is a seperation between the glass and lams. It looks like there was a bubble there, or something. It's not very deep, and it may very well be sanded away, but it also lifted the glass. You'll see in the next photo.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0006.jpg)
Glass is lifted.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0007.jpg)
A pic of the riser.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/ICAM0008.jpg)
It'll be Thursday before I can work on it again. I drive a shopping shuttle for the International Programs department on Wednesday nights. I've got a CDL with a passenger endorsement, so they called, and I take a couple hours of vacation and leave the office at 2:30 and drive until 10:30. They pay me $22 an hour to drive from our Student Union to Walmart to Target and back to the Student Union. Not bad work, if you can get it.
I wondered about your riser fades being short and thick- that can create a weak point in a bow. On my risers the fades for the first inch are less than a 1/16" thick down to see through, the second inch is less than 1/8" thick, the third inch is less than 1/4" thick and then the belly ramp goes up from there.
What's your experience with short, thick fades as it pertains to bow survival. Do you think it will stay together?
D.A.
Man, sorry, I don't think it looks to good. That's on the compression side at the point where the most stress is at due to the sharp transition. It is hard to tell by the blurry pics how bad it is and if it can be filled with something. The airhose requires gradual fades unless you stuff some shim material in that spot to close the gaps. Trux gave the ideal dimensions we should all shoot for at the fades for success. Is it separated on both sides or just one? Does the gap go all the across the width? I see a gap between the belly lam and the riser, is the glass separated from the belly lam too?
Jason,
It's only about 1/16" deep, and only the glass is lifted. I'm thinking that after removing the excess material from the limbs, and then sanding it down to where it should be, most of this will be gone. I agree I made my fades to short. Since this is my first, I was hoping for no problems, but was expecting to find blemishes that would require me getting help from the more experienced bowyers. It's a learning experience. I would like to shoot the bow for awhile, though.
D.A.
Fill the gap and finish- it may work out ok- the only experiance I have with that type of fade is from other posts I've read. http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9744
I think you have something trapped under the glass, or between the lams. Maybe a fly? :)
Like Trux I try to make a long thin fades. this is a pic of bow I built in March..bottom pic is the next build, I mades fades a little longer (http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Robertfishes/firstlongbowfinishon.jpg) (http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Robertfishes/2ndlongbowalmostdone2.jpg)
Here are some pictures. As you can see by comparing the screwdriver point that the gap is only about 1/16", or less, deep. You can also see the amount of lift there is compared to the other side.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01164.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01163.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01162.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01158.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01157.jpg)
Also, I see that I missed a flat spot on my form. As you can see in the pictures, the lower limb has a flat spot and doesn't curve as smoothly as the upper. I'm hoping that after the excess limb material has been cut away, the flat spot won't be as bad.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01155.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01156.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01159.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01160.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01161.jpg)
And one last thing, I worked real hard at finding the center of the riser and used that to determine the center line thru the limbs. It appears that my limbs have a little run out on them, but there's plenty of limb material to finish the bow.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01166.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01165.jpg)
Well, I can see enough mistakes in this bow that most any respectable bowyer would probably use it for firewood, but since it's my first, I think I'll finish it, and see what of the problems I can fix.
I do have a question about the limbs. How far down toward the fades can you go when tapering the limbs? Do you go as far as the taper will take you? If I can do that, the bad spot on my limb would be part of the removed material.
Anyway, give me all the input you can. Looks like it's supposed to rain all weekend here, so I'll have three full days, except when I grilling burgers and dogs at both my Mother's and Mother-in-law's houses on Monday. I guess I better make that two full days.
Oh, at least my glue lines look good. You can give me that, can't you.
D.A.
I would finish it...at least you will get the practice in for the next one! Shaping the bow itself is an art, and you may want to change a few things on the next one. Good luck
Wear some good personal protective equipment when drawing that one. I'd bet she will blow at the end of that one fade, or maybe both fades. You need to make your fadeouts longer and thinner.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-22-10-5.jpg)
Thanks for the advice Apex. I plan on taking on my next build. In my own defense, I was using a Bingham's plan. and the pattern was for the fades I have. I'll have to revise my pattern.
D.A.
I'm sure Binghams intends you to thin the fades. I have riser patterns I have made, and you can't even cut them to final shape or they would break. Here is my pattern traced on a riser.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-16-10-2.jpg)
I would get some thin superglue and keep dropping it in on your fade until it is filled in...(and keep that screwdriver out of there..haha). It does seem like something got caught in there during the glue up but hopefully you never find out for sure.
could he add a power lam to belly to add strength to the limb at fade??
Well, my bows coming right along. The bad spot on the upper limb at the tip of the fade has gotten considerably smaller. Now it's a small hole that's less than 1/8" long and about 1/16", or less, deep. I don't know whether to try a get some Smooth-On down into it, or some thin Super Glue. It would be considerably easier to get the thin Super Glue down into it. I think it's going to be near impossible to get the Smooth-On down into it. I've been working on the riser. I plan on putting a leather wrap on the riser, so I'm trying to get the riser down to where it'll be just the right size for me with the leather on it. I think since my fades came out short, my grip and shelf came out long.
I need to put the riser accents and limb accents at the riser on next, and then I'll be ready to begin the tillering process.
Here's some pictures of my progress so far.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01167.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01170.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01169.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01168.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/DSC01171.jpg)
love the grip on this bow, hope it turns out ok for you, itll sure be a beauty.
to make super glue flow better I have let the tube sit in hot water with top above waterline for a few minutes, then apply to crack slowly so it wicks in by capillary action
Well, I've added some accents to the riser. I decided to use Smooth-On. I've had the bow riser under heat curing the Smooth-On. The heats off now. I'm just waiting for it to cool down, so I can start working on it again. I made a make-shift heat box for the riser. All it is is two 125W Heat lamps surrounded by reflective insulation. It kept the riser at a toasty 130 degrees. Here's a couple pics.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_1555.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_1556.jpg)
Well, I've got my accents on the riser, and now the only thing left to do is tiller the bow. This will be a real learning experience for me. On my accents, I put some linen phenolic behind a layer of Osage Orange on the back of the riser. Then I put a layer of Osage Orange behind a layer Of Walnut on the limbs on the belly of the riser. I'm afraid that my linen phenolic is probably a little too thick, but it's all I had. After I get it tillered, I'll put some more linen phenolic with walnut and Osage on the limb tips. Here's some pics of my riser with the accents.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_2007.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_2006.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_2005.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_2004.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_2008.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/05-30-10_2003.jpg)
it is turning into a very nice looking bow. i hate the the glue lines at the fade are not better than they are. i would definately take the others advice, and fill that little hole in with super glue. on the next one i would do like apex suggested and thin the fade. it makes for a better all around bow (looks and durability) i hope she works out for you when you get ready to shoot.
eric
She is a nice looking bow,they will all get better after this for sure,nice job. :thumbsup:
I sure hope she holds together for you, because she is very nice looking.
I wonder if those overlays could have been extended past the fades and feathered into the belly to give the effect of longer fades? Never made a glass bow so only speculating here...
Awesome thread, I read every post. I just started shooting a recurve this year and I am very interested in building a bow January of next year. I think it will be a lot of fun.
Steve, I would be afraid they would pop off.
Ok guys, I've started the tillering process. Remember when looking at the pictures that the lower (left) limb has a flat spot in the curve of the limb due to a problem with my form. With that said, it looks to me like my lower limb is a little stiffer than the upper, and it appears to be flexing at the fades, as it should. Now, a couple of questions. When I'm sanding the lower limb to unstiffen it, do I sand on the back/belly of the limb, or the sides of the limb?
And, I know I should know this, but is it the string should be 3" shorter than length on a longbow, and 4" on a recurve, or do I have it backwards?
I've been bending the limbs while in my tillering stand, and the limbs are becoming more flexible the more I bend them. Here's some pictures.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1022.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1021.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1023.jpg)
Ok, I went back to my bow and realized that I didn't have the bow square with the graph chart. So, after making sure that bow was square, here are some new pictures. What do you think. Do I need to do anything at this point? I've still got to put a string of the right length on it. Here's the pics.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1132.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1133.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1134.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1135.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1136.jpg)
Well, this project is over. I put a string on it and had it on my tiller stand when it gave way while drawing it to 28", 29" & 30". I guess this is a perfect example of what short, fast fades will do, I guess. I'll think about my mistakes and then start another project bow. Here's some pics.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1242.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1241.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/bayman1975/06-07-10_1243.jpg)
Great attempt...thanks for sharing...you obviously learned a lot that will make the next one a good one. If we could ever get Dave Albright, Elmer Patton, and Rick Welch together sometime for some pointers...or maybe a workshop over at Mayflower...it would save us lots of time learning on our own... :)
Good job.
Bob
Two things i noted:
1. Short fades put alot of stress at the riser/ limb junction, so make the limbs bend more toward mid limb or tips and less at the fades. If you look at the riser drawing that Binghams sells, they do look short and fat, but that is the cut out shape and require you to sand the fade down. A good guideline is paper thin at the end of the fade tapering smoothly to 1/16" thick at 1", 1/8" at 2" and 1/4" at 2" or 3".
2. If you see a problem with the bend of the limbs DO NOT bend it further. Fix it first. Also, when tillering, never draw the bow further than your draw length or desired draw weight. For example, If you want 50lb at 28" and you hit 50lb at 12", obviously its too heavy and the limbs need to be lightened up. Its usually better to thin the width or length of the limb than the thickness to change tiller in fibreglass bows. You can do this by narrowing the whole limb or by trapping the back. Sanding the fibre glass,should be approached the way you would approach drinking whiskey: Do so in moderation!
a good way to get an idea of stiff spots in the limbs is to run a piece of string from the limb tips to the back side of the riser where it sits in the tillering tree. the straight line shows where the bends are nice and where they arent. also i agree you need to go inch by inch when tillering, or youll have failures. a tillering gizmo will also help when you cant see what needs sanded and what doesnt. one of the last pictures you posted looked like the left limb was bending alot right out of the fades and not very much at all out the rest of the limb, this could have helped contribute to the delamination. good luck on your next one,keep us posted of any questions. as they say "rome wasnt built in a day"