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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Apex Predator on May 15, 2010, 09:12:00 AM

Title: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 15, 2010, 09:12:00 AM
I received an order of ebony that I can't use for my current build.  I had to re-order from another supplier.  While I wait, I decided to try my hand at a take-down.

I have been experimenting with two piece take-down systems.  My first attempt was converting an old bow into a sleeved take-down.  It works ok, and added a lot of mass to the bow.  Every time I think I have it fitted well, I shoot it a while and it's a real booger to separate.  I need a vice most times!

I have some hinges on order from Robertson Bows.  While I wait for him to receive his shipment, Dick fronted me one of his.  Thanks Dick!

This is a 68" Sapelo (mild R/D) with a Bois De Rose riser, maple actionwood/hickory lams, and black glass.  She will finish right at 50@28.  I made a boo-boo when cutting the 3/4" trough for the hinge to fit into.  I had a bold white line marking the center of the bow, and another not so bold a line marking the hinge position around 3/4" below center.  I planned for my shelf to be 1 1/2" above center.  Had her all timed and tillered for the original shelf location.  Like a bone head I cut the trough on the center line!  No fear, I just had to re-configure the riser layout.  I was running out of room for the shelf, and it's located a little closer to the hinge than I wanted.  I just can't radius it much.  I'll just use velcro on the shelf, and all will be good.  This is my progress yesterday.

   (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-14-10-1.jpg)

   (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-14-10-2.jpg)

   (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-14-10-3.jpg)

   (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-14-10-4.jpg)
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: John Scifres on May 15, 2010, 09:22:00 AM
You do know you need to cut the handle?  It won't work like that  :)  

Have courage.  It's kind of like recreational skydiving.  Cutting a bow in half goes against everything we know about making bows.  Take the plunge.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 15, 2010, 09:23:00 AM
I wanted a large enough kerf to use two pieces of glass in the middle.  After much painful deliberation, I decided to use my chop saw to cut the bow in half.  I cut a .005 blade from an old feeler gauge and slid it between the bottom of the hinge and the bow.  When I saw sparks I quit cutting!   :o  It worked well.  Due to the round blade, I had to finish the cut with a hacksaw blade.  Now I have a two piece!

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-15-10-1.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-15-10-2.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-15-10-3.jpg)

Two .050 pieces of black glass will be perfect!  I ran out of time this morning, but will glue these in tonight.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-15-10-4.jpg)
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: kennym on May 15, 2010, 10:20:00 AM
Lookin good Marty!!
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 15, 2010, 10:27:00 AM
Thanks Kenny.

I've decided I should have sealed the wood under the pivoting part of the hinge.  I haven't heard it mentioned in any instructions, so I didn't think about it.  I have to remove a piece of blue painters tape first though!  Not much of a gap to work with.  Maybe I can fish a piece of wire under there.  I figure to just wick some CA in the crack to seal it.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Dick in Seattle on May 15, 2010, 10:33:00 PM
Looks good!   From one earlier communication I thought you maybe had a mess on hand.   Obviously not.

Yeah, I got caught in that sealing under the hinge trap, too.    I don't work with the precision you do so I had a bigger gap and could get True Oil soaked cloth under there.    Maybe you could use paper soaked in finish?
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Oliverstacy on May 15, 2010, 11:58:00 PM
Marty,

I think a 62" Ossabow 2 piece in my future...or if you get the 50's recurve up and running that will be on the short list.

Hope it finishes like you hope.

Josh
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: AkDan on May 16, 2010, 02:51:00 PM
ok since we're talking hinge, I have to ask....I have a hinge on a bow built by a boywer.  The ears if you will are lifting up?   do I dare file them back down?  I can post a pic if you need a better idea.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: ChristopherO on May 16, 2010, 04:26:00 PM
Even with that metal shim to alert you when cutting you are a brave man to sever the handle like you did.  As a fellow who has made tens of thousands of chops with a miter saw I know how finiky it can be to control the blade in those tolerances.  Good job, though.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: shamus on May 16, 2010, 06:04:00 PM
Very nice work, sir.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 16, 2010, 07:31:00 PM
AkDan,  If you want my opinion, post a photo.  Just keep in mind this is my first hinge install!  :)   Maybe some one else will stumble upon this post and give you some educated advice.

I've been finish sanding and shooting this bad girl today.  She is sweet.  There is absolutely no play in the system, and she comes apart effortlessly.  I just wish these things weren't so expensive.

It's gonna be a real pain keeping the red off the core wood while finish prepping.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-16-10-1.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-16-10-3.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-16-10-2.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/5-16-10-4.jpg)
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Trux Turning on May 16, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Brave man with the chop saw-- looks good though. That riser will really come to life with the finish.

If you don't glue the hinge/screws in on the fit up couldn't you take the hinge off after you get it located properly, cut the bow in half and then reinstall the hinge?
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 16, 2010, 09:24:00 PM
The build-a-longs I studied before my attempt said that once the hinge is on, to "NEVER" take it off.  Alignment issues will present themselves that are really tough to remedy.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: AkDan on May 16, 2010, 09:26:00 PM
Will do Apex....

In your bottom pic its the right half (of the two hinge pieces), inside the slot where the top of the T goes (the left side or male end in your bottom pic). On the right hand side top as you look at your pic.   In the U channel top edge corner where the corner is at the top inside corner of the T.   Tears my rubber grip if I roll it on and off to much.  Have seen this in another bow too.  It's rolling that edge up.

Confuzed?  LOL  I'll post pics here in a bit I gotta run some errands.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Jason Scott on May 17, 2010, 09:55:00 AM
KkDan, sounds like you should be able to sand or file the burr off.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Swissbow on May 17, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
Not for the faint of heart to cut such a nice bow in half. But you did a fantastic job Marty.

That hinge really is something I have to think about. I often use my bike to ride down to our shooting place and it's always a hassle to carry a longbow or even a recurve. But with a bow like that you just take it apart and put it in a backpack and off you go. I have to check where I can get one of these hinges.

Again, great job Marty !

----------
Andy
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: joekeith on May 18, 2010, 12:13:00 PM
Where do you get these hinges at?  I don't know if I'm brave enough to cut my bow in half or not.  Looks pretty scary to me.  :scared:
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 18, 2010, 01:02:00 PM
Dick Robertson sells them for $90 each, or $85 if you buy three.  Now I see why bowyers charge $150-200 dollars for a bow with one.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 20, 2010, 07:44:00 AM
Here she is!  I planned on putting mocassin skins on this one, but I'm not so sure now.  I can always do it later.  She finished at 50@28.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-2.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-3.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-4.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-5.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-6.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Apex%20bows/AP03310-7.jpg)
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: SteveD on May 20, 2010, 08:21:00 AM
Wow Great work Marty.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Igor on May 20, 2010, 08:29:00 AM
Super job!

><>
glenn
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: redant 60/65 on May 20, 2010, 08:41:00 AM
Outstanding  :thumbsup:  Very nice looking bow  :clapper:
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: BenBow on May 20, 2010, 09:32:00 AM
Great job as usual
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: scottm on May 20, 2010, 09:48:00 AM
Great job!I wasent scared for a minuit!i knew that you knew you could do it before you fired up the saw.Again nice job great fit!
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: ChristopherO on May 20, 2010, 04:37:00 PM
Stunning.
Will this be your new hunting bow?
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 20, 2010, 05:15:00 PM
Yes, I plan to bloody this one soon!
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: bjansen on May 20, 2010, 05:43:00 PM
Oustanding Work Apex....say I ran into one of your bows last weekend and finially got to see and shoot one of those beuties.  It was a 54# @ 29" Osage veneered, boo cored,  64" longbow (R/D)...maybe you remember the exact one I am talking about...Great work!
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Swissbow on May 20, 2010, 06:25:00 PM
Fantastic job, Apex. That bow is looking so cool !

----------
Andy
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on May 20, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Looks Sweet.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: chrisg on May 21, 2010, 05:16:00 AM
Beautiful bow and neat workmanship, it's all in the detail. Well done. chrisg
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 21, 2010, 09:29:00 AM
Yes, I know that bow Brad.  She's a screamer!  The guy that owns it now is really loving her.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 21, 2010, 10:21:00 AM
Well I'm scratching my head with this one guys. Before finishing, I was shooting this bow and it was awesome. I can't remember what stage of tillering it was in though! She was at 7 1/8" brace height. I finished her out and had the limbs timed as well as I could get them, which gave me negative 1/8" tiller. Shooting yesterday proved that all wet! The hinge "clacks" when shooting until I get the brace height at least 8"! This design has proven best at around 7- 7 1/8' brace. I started narrowing the bottom limb to bring her around. I've got it at even tiller and it seems a little better, but still wants 8" on the brace.

Any one here ever heard of a hinge "clacking" like this.  I really thing the hinge is opening and slamming shut at the end of the power stroke.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 21, 2010, 11:08:00 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think I just need to weaken the top limb some more. With my boo-boo on locating the hinge, I have my shelf over two inches above center. That is the highest I've ever located it. By theory, it should require more positive tiller than my normal +1/8-3/16". I think I can bring her around with the proper tiller. If the limb tips look mis-timed, but it shoots better, I'm ok with that.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: walkabout on May 21, 2010, 11:49:00 AM
hope you get this one figured out. we all know the frustrations of trying something new and the anticipation of how its going to go.ive always wondered how well the hinges worked, some people love them while others hate them, but everyone likes their tea diferent. if it were in the earlier stages maybe making the lower limb shorter wouldve helped, though im not sure because i havent built any glass bows.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: John Sturtevant on May 21, 2010, 01:11:00 PM
I've intalled 6-7 of these and had the same problem on a couple.  Ussualy the clicking starts just before the screws pull out.
(just kidding)
The only way I could totaly eliminate it was a thin felt spacer as a cushion.   I've seen people use leather spacers for the same reason.
There's likely a better solution...wonder of Robertson could help.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 21, 2010, 01:55:00 PM
You got me John!  I read that second sentence three times before seeing the second line.  :)
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Pat B on May 21, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
I was thinking a felt "cushion" would probably help eliminate the noise; just like with a 3 piece takedows sometimes.
 The Connexion Henge looks pretty cool and effective. Anyone tried it on a selfbow?
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Jason Scott on May 21, 2010, 03:46:00 PM
It's like a whole different bow for you with the shelf higher. You may not have the same issue on the next one because you know your tiller for it with the shelf in the right place. You've still got two more hinges to get it all figured out don't you?
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 21, 2010, 03:57:00 PM
I ordered three from Robertson, but it may be a couple of weeks before I receive them.  Dick in Seattle fronted me one while I waited.  Thanks Dick!
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: John Sturtevant on May 21, 2010, 05:49:00 PM
Pat, I've put them on self, BB backed and glass bows.
There is a guy in PA that was selling them for $45.  It's a cast SS instead of machined.   They work fine.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: horseapple on May 21, 2010, 05:54:00 PM
Apex, you just have to ignore Sturdevant sometimes, he likes to play tricks on you   :)
hello John
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: rainman on May 21, 2010, 06:25:00 PM
How's it going JD
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Bodork on May 21, 2010, 10:45:00 PM
Just thinking way outside the box here, but I'm assuming when you sprayed it you took the bow apart and sprayed each piece including the areas where the black glass mates together. Could it be possible that the finish itself is creating a friction different than the bare glass was and making the noise? What about some powder graphite on the surfaces?  I've been wrong before but what the heck.
Beautiful bow! Hope you get it like you want it. Let us know!  Mike
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Pat B on May 21, 2010, 11:23:00 PM
Thanks John. I'll look him up on PA.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: horseapple on May 22, 2010, 01:20:00 AM
Hello Dan
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 22, 2010, 05:23:00 AM
Mike, actually I sprayed it like a one piece, since that is what I'm used to.  I used contact cement between the halves.  The black glass shims are clean, and have no finish, except for the outer edges.  I'm about to start working on her again this morning before work.  I'll keep you guys posted.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: John Sturtevant on May 22, 2010, 06:15:00 PM
Hey JD
Hope you make it mojam so I can kick your butt in the clout shoot.

Pat, the guy that sells the $45 latch is;
Bill Semerod
17058 Semerad Rd.
Meadville, Pa 16335
Can't seem to locate his phone number at the moment.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: horseapple on May 23, 2010, 09:41:00 PM
OK OK so you got lucky, had to be the bow   ;)
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: Apex Predator on May 23, 2010, 09:43:00 PM
I glued a very thin piece of leather to one side of the joint. It helped very little. I re-tillered it to + 3/16", and it helped with the shot manners but not the "clack" of the hinge. I've been shooting her with an 8 strand D97 string. I decided to try a B-50 string. Shoots like a new bow! I was able to take the brace down to 7 1/8" where it has the best manners and it is as silent as my straight longbows! I'm sure I'm giving up a few feet per second, but I don't care. This bow is sweet now.
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: fish n chicks on May 25, 2010, 11:00:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Apex Predator:
I glued a very thin piece of leather to one side of the joint. It helped very little. I re-tillered it to + 3/16", and it helped with the shot manners but not the "clack" of the hinge. I've been shooting her with an 8 strand D97 string. I decided to try a B-50 string. Shoots like a new bow! I was able to take the brace down to 7 1/8" where it has the best manners and it is as silent as my straight longbows! I'm sure I'm giving up a few feet per second, but I don't care. This bow is sweet now.
Bro I don't know what you're talking about. That bow has been sweet since the first pics you showed. Is this bow for a client, or did you make this bad mamma jamma for yourself as an, experiment, if you will? Shoot if I made bows that sweet i'd be a busy man!
Title: Re: First Connexion Hinge attempt! H-E-L-P
Post by: walkabout on May 25, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
glad you got it finished and got the problem worked out, at least now if you do more youll know what to expect.