I'm in the process of getting started making longbows for my 4 sons and myself and I have some questions on epoxies.
Is smooth-on my best choice?
On laminating risers, do I use the same epoxy as limb laminations?
Do I cure risers the same time and temperature as the rest of the bow or do I risk the riser coming apart during the glue up?
I'm just now getting the shop (garage) set up and these are questions I had before I buy anything.
I've just started making bows myself and smooth-on is what I used for riser and limbs with no problems. I would recommend curing in a heat box as well. Tony
Sharp Shooter offers good advice. Smooth on is the way to go, best of the two or three types I have used in the past. Wouldn't even consider anything other than smooth on. I have used the same temp for both the riser and the limbs, without problem in the past. I usually use different temps. now too much heat can cause wood to become to dry and check.
i use G2. you don't need a heat box at all. seems to last forever.
Thanks guys.
Yewsage,
where do you get that G2?
I would like to hear more about it first, though. I'm really wanting to go with "time proven" stuff (no offense meant).
Patrick
is this the g2 you refer to?
http://www.adhesive.com/G2-glue
I have used smooth on for 7 glass bows, no problems. I think Black Widow uses Versamid??(spelling) for epoxy in their bows. I am going to keep using the smooth on since it seems to be the industry standard and kennym sells it..
I've used Smooth-On and G2 and prefer to use G2. Smooth-On feels really thick. They will both make a bow.
I used G2 (I only know of Lee Valley Tools as for distributors) and have so far been pretty satisfied with it. I have only glued up a kids bow and some knife handles with it but it seems to do the job allright. I would try smooth on if I had an oven but I don't and G2 seems to work just fine.
I noticed the interest in G2 from Innocente's link. However, our G2 (the one linked) is not an epoxy, so it must be another company's G2 that was intended. Just wanted to clear up any confusion.
We do manufacture and sell several epoxies http://www.adhesive.com/type-epoxy and from a quick look at the smooth on one referenced, I'd suggest a look at our E5 Epoxy http://www.adhesive.com/E5-epoxy
I have not used our epoxies for bow repair. But always glad to learn of additional uses.
John Roberts
GM, SmartAdhesives
huh...that's news to me, i didn't realize a company can follow traffic back to a referring site.
the world gets a little smaller every day.
You can also use G2 in an oven. The directions state the cure time for various tempeatures or at least a formula to figure out the cure time.
Does Lee Valley Tools have a web site? I'm going to have the oven built here shortly so I will probably start with smooth on, but if John Roberts wants to send me some E5 to test????.
Thanks guys all info is a great help.
Patrick
www.leevalley.com (http://www.leevalley.com)
Are you guys using the Lee Valley G2 epoxy on fiberglass or all wood laminate bows?
YES!
I use standard type L from the German company r&g. It's mainly used in construction of glider planes and boats and it cures very well at room temperature ( have you ever tried to put a glider plane into a heat box ?!?!?! ).
Here's a list of all the distributors. You can find USA almost at the end of the list.
http://download.r-g.de/rg_fachhaendler.pdf
----------
Andy
Thanks Jason.
Have you ever used it to make bows??
John Roberts,
(incase you check back in)
Thanks for the imput. The problem is, though, that we are mainly small time users of Smooth On, G2, or similar epoxies. The Quarts of A&B Smooth On only cost $50.00+/- where as your E5 was $70.00 for the quarts A&B. Also, the E5 did not cure translucent. That is an issue when a bowyer wants a beautiful wood laminate to show through the clear glass. Smooth On shines for this application.
I did enjoy reading the information on your product, though.
Here is my deal. I have only used smooth-on and without any problems so far. One time I way over estimated a stack for an aggressive r/d longbow design that I used smooth-on with. That bow was surely over a hundred pounds after rough shaping. In my sobbing attempt to salvage the bow by narrowing it down it ended up flipping the tips every time I tried to string it. I was and am still amazed that the glue holds after being torqued that severely so many times. That bow is on the wall in my garage to remind me every time I start a new one. I don't think I would use anything but smooth-on even of someone gave me another glue for free. The G2 seems to be half the price but for approx $15 per bow with smooth-on it's negligable to me. I am glad to know that there is another alternative in case smooth-on EA40 gets discontinued though.
I've used G2 for all my glass lam bows for the last 7 years (probably about 8 bows). This has been on both black and clear glass.
ChristopherO, appreciate the feedback about the color. It's true that our epoxies don't cure translucent. (Light coloring, but definitely visible.) That's deliberate because in most adhesive applications, if you don't mix the two components well, you weaken the bond. The different colors of the component -- and the new color of the mixed components -- helps you visually insure that you're getting the strongest bond. And, in most applications, you don't see the cured adhesive as it's covered by the materials.
Totally understand your point here about laminating and letting the beauty of the wood shine through. A thought: maybe consider different adhesives for exterior lamination versus structural assembly.
As I wrote at the beginning, this is a new potential use for our adhesives, so I'm learning, and grateful for that. Clear curing is possible, but we haven't focused on that property to date. We've focused on strength and flexibility (for E5) not visual appeal, but we've done clear before, too.
I was turned on to G2 by Jason Jelinek after I read his article in TBM years ago. I exchanged an email or two with him not long after that and now the only regret i have is that it took me so long to actually TRY it. Thanks for information Jason and it is good to start seeing feedback on this glue showing up on the forum.
Jim Fetrow from Portland, Oregon is the one who told me about G2. He uses an oven to cure the G2 in his bows, he even heats up the epoxy before applying it.
Thanks again gentlemen. The more info I can get the better.
For those mentioning (and using) G2... is the amber color not a problem?
Only asking because others in the thread emphasized that drying clear _is_ important.
(Yes, I'm still listening and learning... and intrigued.)
John Roberts
GM, SmartAdhesives
http://www.adhesive.com/