I have embarked on building my first longbow. I ordered most of the supplies from bingham's. The laminations are osage with action boo core and covered in fiberglass? I'm not sure of the thickness of the lams. It will become apparent that I'm new to this but I'm very excited to get rolling. For the riser I bought a chunk of figured shedua. The bow is going to be 68", 60#s at 28#(hopefully) straight longbow. I have built the heatbox (per RGK) and the riser, and I'm about to build the lamination press (the kind with the Rubber tube clamps). So my first question is about building the press. I do not have a joiner and want to make the board on the back of the bow square, level and perfect. Also I was wondering what the best material is to place between the back of the bow and the board or if it is necessary. One more question.. is there a good way to keep the lams from slipping when pressing them? Thanks to everyone on this forum it has been fantastic to read all the bowyer information.
I'm having trouble posting pics of hotbox and riser any help there would be great as well.
I figured out the pictures..
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Laminations.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/HOTBOX.jpg) (http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/BuildalongRiser.jpg)
Drill a hole on the edge of some large fender washers. Secure them to critical points along the edge of your form. I like them towards the end of my riser fades and then near the tips. Swivel them up to keep your parts from sliding around.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/Apex-Predator/Bow%20Building/4-11-09-1.jpg)
I use an aluminum strip 1.5" wide glued to the wood surface of my forms. I glue some 1/8" rubber to the top of this. Works great!
Awesome
Thank Apex,, I will do the aluminum strip. The 1/8" rubber I don't quite understand. Is the rubber used to create a pressure on the back of the bow.. and what kind of rubber is it,,and where can I get 1/8 inch rubber?
Thanks for the Help
Josh
The rubber makes the pressure spread evenly on the bows back. You can buy some 36" wide pieces from Lowes that is used for some kind of flooring threshold. I cut that into 1.5" strips. Comes in several colors and is just a few dollars each. Sorry I don't know what they are called.
Thanks again, and I forget to mention the washer trick is great. Hopefully I will get to cook a bow this weekend.
Josh
Apex (Marty)
Just checked out your website, some beautiful bows, stunning. I think my next bow I'll try the laminated riser, Yours have some real character.
Josh
Josh,
Looks like you're off to a good start. I've built several straight limbed longbows from Binghams kits, and if you follow their blueprints you will come within a couple pounds of your desired draw weight.
Your riser looks good. Just be sure to sand the fadeouts paper thin at the ends to give you a good glue line.
Your hot box looks a lot nicer than mine :)
Keep posting pics.
Good luck,
John
Thanks John
I think I have more shedua in my lungs than in my riser (I know wear a mask). Since the riser pic I have sanded quite a bit off. I'm taking my time so I don't sand too far. I will take a pic when i'm done, If I don't die of shedua consumption :knothead: :knothead: :knothead: .
I did a dry run of the lamination and realized I had a way to go on the fades. Thanks for the tip.
Josh
You might find a cabinet shop in your area and ask them to run your form across their joiner. I know back when I first started I used my local cabinet shop several times. When they found out what I was trying to do, they were very helpful and always asked to see the bow when I finished it.
Looks great so far. There is an article in a 2005 issue of TBM on building straight limb bows, check out their form ideas. I have a Rigid oscilating belt/spindle sander that is a real workhorse in bow making, even for grinding lams. There are some links for jigs, check them out
Joshua,
If you want a "straight" end longbow you have to build about about 1/2 reflex in your form. If you use a "straight" form you will get about a 1/2" string follow bow.
Hey stamitis
Being a newbie, I'm not sure what you mean about a "1/2" string follow bow". Also, did you mean a half inch reflex in the form.
Thanks
Josh
It means that your bow will take a set or a memory as it were. It will be bent toward you a 1/2 " when unstrung.
1/2" of reflex built in will allow it to take a set and be "straight" when unstrung.
Thanks for the explanation. I looked around and did some reading on forums about string follow and I agree, a slight reflex is needed. This has the potential of causing me to scratch my head this weekend instead of cooking a nice bow BBQ. My dilemma is how to make the form. I would guess that I should begin the reflex at the end of the riser. Second I also would guess that I don't want to simply draw a straight line from zero to a half inch. Two thoughts on how to make the curve...1)Take a hundred or so feet of string and tie a pencil to one end to make the curve (not really) or 2)Connect the dots with incremental measurements, for example half way would be a quarter inch reflex, 1/4 distance would be 1/8"..etc. So any help here to avoid playing connect the dots would be great help.
Thanks
Josh
On second thought maybe the reflex is simply a straight line from 0 to a half inch? Since If I play connect the dots I would get a straight line (Dough).
Josh
On second thought maybe the reflex is simply a straight line from 0 to a half inch? Since If I play connect the dots I would get a straight line (Dough).
Josh
You can take a piece of the fiberglass and use it as your trace line. Put a small nail at the tips of the riser and, limb tips and wherever you want the middle of the bend. Weave the glass around them and trace it. You can use the system you described in your second thought above as to where to drive the small nails. A slight curve would be good for comming off the riser and then straighten out toward the tips. There is really nothing wrong with a little string follow if you were to build a straight form. Not much noticable performance gains in adding an inch reflex (couple fps) and a little follow will be more forgiving anyway. If you don't have a router and don't feel like spending the many hours getting the edge square and smooth again with a file and sanding block you may opt go ahead and build it straight form. A lot of times, depending on the moisture content in the lams, the bow will gradually return to straight after a while being unstrung. Likewise for the one built with a little backset, eventually it would return to a little backset instead of straight. If the lam moisture is a little higher than optimal you will notice more set.
Thanks Jason
Good idea with tracing the glass. Any suggestions on how far to put the middle nail for the curve. Maybe 1/3 the distance or 2/5. I just converted to traditional archery and I'm currently shooting a howard hill wesley special on loan from a friend, and this bow has a slight reflex. So in the interest of eliminating error from my shot, I think I will try to make this bow shoot similar to the one I'm cutting my teeth on.
Thanks again
Josh
In that case you can lay the hill bow on your form and either trace it or at least mark where the bends occur. If you no longer have it then you can try to remember how it looked. Basically, most backset hills are a continuous arch. The only flat spot is in the riser area I guess. Since you already have a straight riser I would pop a chalk line, measure the one inch backset at the tips and mark those spots. Then measure a couple inches outside the spot where the fades end and mark those spots on the chalk line. Drive nails at those four locations and weave the glass through the nails so the glass is on the back side of the tip nails and the belly side of the fade nails. Then press the riser into place up to the chalk line which will take the arch out between those two inside fade nails. This will give you a good swooping backset profile with a flat riser section.
Before you trace the cut line just make sure both limbs are symmetrical by spot checking measurements to the chalk line on both limbs. You can manipulate the glass.
excellent
Thanks Jason
Take a look at some of Apex Predators build alongs. I think it is very crutial to use the method he does for pressure strips when doing the rubber band method. Notice the rounded strip of wood he uses on top of the top metal pressure strip. That is very important to get good and clear layups especially for clear glass.
Uh OH
First, don't get me wrong this bow is beautiful,, however, I was noticing how bright yellow the osage is on the belly, and I'm afraid that my bow with osage on the back is going to look similar. On the belly I don't mind so much but I would like to be a bit more covert when shooting at an animal. Any suggestions, can I change the color of the osage, or will it not be so yellow with glue on it. Also, my laminations do not look quite as yellow as this bow.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/CopyofSnakeyOsageRecurve0981.jpg)
Thanks
Josh
Also I could rearrange the order of my laminations, would that effect the bow? Would I be able to put the laminations in this order: amber action boo, then osage, then amber action boo, and on the belly osage?
Currently, the plan is Osage, actboo,actboo,osage.
Thanks
Josh
As you are about to hear from other helpful friends, one of the beautiful things about osage is its tendency to darken over time when exposed to light. My Mahaska longbow was fairly bright upon arrival, but mellowed to a fantastic smoky, caramel color. Really beautiful. Good luck with everything.
Thanks juneau
I'm done panicking.. I'm gonna go with the original plan. Might have a yellow bow this season, but from what I've seen since my panic, its worth the wait for the brown color. Thanks for the help. After I made my comment I looked below my post and saw the osage staining post (dough)
Josh
Here goes,
Starting my glue press today. I have built in a 1/2" reflex. Put down an aluminum strip covered by 1/8" rubber and have washers pinned to the sides. One last trip to Home depot, and the bike shop for more tubes and its on. I will post some pics once its cooking. Any last second tips? I will check the forum before I mix the glue.
Thanks, wish me luck
Josh
good luck! hope you know what your getting into, this stuff is addicting.
I don't know what your talking about.. I could quit any time I wanted. I don't need this...yeah right. :biglaugh:
Well, here comes some pics.
We have lights
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Lights.jpg)
Picture of wiring
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/wires.jpg)
Finished Riser
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Riser.jpg)
Gluing on the aluminum and Rubber strips
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Aluminumandrubber.jpg)
Joining the osage laminations with an angle,, sorry not the best pic
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Osageglueup.jpg)
Preventing lamination slip with the washers
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Washergaurd.jpg)
Dry Run
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Dryrun.jpg)
I traced the riser onto a board and made pieces to clamp down. There is also an 1/8 inch strip of rubber in between. Hope it works.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Dryruncloseup.jpg)
Well, No wet run today will have to wait for tomm. The heat box took a little longer to get to 180 than I thought. First thing tomorrow I will have the gloves on. If anyone sees any potential hangups advice is appreciated.
Thanks
Josh
Man.. I'm exhausted. Just finished putting the bow in the oven. It was chilly in the garage so.. the glue was hardening fast. I actually set my glue cup in some warm water to keep it soft. What a sticky mess. I went through three pairs of gloves. The tubes were terribly hard to tie with glue on them and my hands. My riser kept shifting lengthwise so I had to undue the tubes until they were pulling perfectly center. So note to self, next time I will tie the tubes ahead of time. Everything else went smooth, I decided not to use the wood I cut to put pressure on the fades, the tubes gave a more even squeeze than the wood. Thanks for all the help with this project. Here are a couple pictures.
Here is the setup from left to right Glass, Osage, Action boo, action boo, Osage, Glass.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/TheSetup.jpg)
Time to cook
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Timetocook.jpg)
Dang Joshua you look like a pro Bowyer! Good job man!!!!!
The bow is out of the oven. Here's some pics.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Wheretherisermeetsthelams.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/cookedbow.jpg)
So far so good. I'll be watchin'. Keep up the good work.
Thanks chowhound (aka the narrows slayer)
Lookin good Josh, wish I could help but I'd say you've already benifitted big time from this string of posts and your own research. The closest I ever got to building a bow was hanging out with Mike Fedora. He makes it real easy.
Looking forward to your additional progress.
(Bill D.)
it sure looks good to me. i can't tell where your fades end, and that is always good. did you end up using the pieces to clamp down the riser? if so how well did it work?
The pieces I cut out to clamp down the riser did not make the team on monday. I think the idea is good but I do not have good enough equipment to get a perfect match. When I used just the bike tubes to clamp down the the riser I actually got a better (more consistant) line. But with a little work the pieces make get in the next game.
Josh
Can't wait to see the finished bow!
Awesome Job so far my friend. Where do I put my order in at? We couldn't be more proud of ya back in PA. We're anxiously awaiting the next pics.
Got the bow cleaned up and I'm working on cutting out the limbs. I'm using the bingham's diagrams and call me crazy but I can't... how do I put this.. shoulld the upper and lower limb be symmetrical and should the left and right side of the limbs be symmetrical? The binghams diagrams are a little asymmetrical. Any suggestions? Also here's a peek under the tape.
Josh
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Peekundertape.jpg)
I make mine symmetrical. Both limbs are identical. Then I file the string groves and brace it. Take tiller dimensions and choose a top limb and then mark the shelf and handle. As far as left and right side of limbs being symmetrical, I run a string down the center of the bow through the riser and tips and make the left and right side of the limbs symmetrical.
Thanks again Jason
That lamination file you sent me is awesome. I will definitely be using it in the future. I assumed that everything should be symmetrical but was having difficulty matching up the bingham limbs. I'm going to use one of their limbs for both. Or at least that's what I'm attempting currently. Thanks
Before you brace the bow make sure you round the corners just a little with sandpaper. If you don't it could spring a splinter of glass that will keep running and you will not be able to fix it.
Man the fades on your riser are looking great ! Very nice job so far.
I do the same way as Jason. I cut out both limbs identic, file the string grooves and string the bow. After the tiller is the way I want it I mark the grip and the shelf and cut it out. This way you can adjust the shelf exactly to the string.
----------
Andy
Ok, Here goes. I have cut out forms for the limbs multiple times now. Each time the form didn't seem right so I sanded and sanded until the form was to small. So here what I figured out. The bingham blueprint is not symetrical for sure,, here is a picture. I drew a center line down the middle and you can see the left side is almost 1/8" larger. I would think that would be a considerable difference. Ignore the line on the right.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Notcrazy.jpg)
So I'm at a loss, I'm trying to draw something on microsoft publisher using elongated ovals. When I do this I make the center of the oval an inch and a half wide out to nothing at 35 or 36 inches. Although this pattern is perfectly symmetrical I'm not sure where taper in the limbs should begin and if it is meant to have a consistent taper all the way to the tip. So If anyone has some advice I would greatly appreciate it, or if anyone know where I could find a nice pattern for a 68" longbow that would be nice too.
Thanks
Josh
Also here's a nice pic of the back of the bow.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/TheBackofthebow.jpg)
Sorry I may be documenting to much. When I made the center line I just used the end of the diagram (which makes sense right?). Turns out the form is a little off at the center of the bow and if I just use the part beginning at the end of the riser fade the pattern centers up nicely. So, is this approach acceptable and can I trim out the riser part to my liking?
I went and got a piece of 72" clear flexible pexiglass and drew my bow pattern on it and cut it out. When I take my bow out of the press, I don't draw a centerline or anything. I put this pattern right on the back of the bow, secure with spring clamps and trace the pattern. This way I am guaranteed to get a straight bow even if my form is warped a tad.
It is imperative that your limb widths are equidistant to the centerline or you will get twist in your limb. Not so critical for hill type longbows since the limbs are thicker but its good building practice. Your doing great. My first bow was a T/D recurve and it turned out so bad I couldn't even shoot it
TIM
Man I'm nervous, I about to string her up. I brought the bow inside to warm it up. Wish me luck
Good luck Josh!
I'm excited for you Joshua! Great job so far.
looking good. :thumbsup: did you get her strung up yet? can't wait for more.
The suspense is killing us!
OK Josh - It's been almost 24 hours since you posted that you were "about to string her up".
Maybe you're so into finishing it up you don't have time for us knuckleheads sitting infront of our computers. I don't blame you....
Let's see some pics.
Sorry for the wait folks,, I got a little carried away with the project and forgot about the computer end. So she strung up nicely. At first, I thought I had a horrible limb twist and then I closed the other eye,,(do not test limb twist with both eyes open, it will scare the crap out of you). At this point the bow feels a little heavy, maybe 65 or so. I put a fishing scale on the bow pulled to 18 inches and it read 40#s,, so 10 times 3 .. 70lbs at 28? I better hit the gym if that's right. Anyway, here's some pics. The first pic has some photos to taunt my good friend Todd. Earlier this week he mocked me for having my wife in my avatar. So there is a few photos of her and I below the bow.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/strung.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Limbs.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/Draw.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/shaping.jpg)
Thanks to everyone for getting me this far. Tomorrow I will be carving out the shelf. This plan is to go 1 3/4" above center unless someone has a better suggestion.
Looks great! Great job using the Tradgang to guide you along the way. You're impressing the vets and inspiring the greenhorns.
I suspect the hunting gods are so pleased, that monster bull elk may kneel down in front of you this fall.
Finish Strong.
Looking good Josh!
That osage looks nice and will get better with time.
I'll bet you're already starting to plan the next one.
Great looking bow! I can't wait to see the finished pictures.
You mentioned that you had trouble with the riser sliding around during the glue up. This used to drive me crazy. I now drill 1/4" hole in the center of my form, about a half inch in depth. I then drill a corresponding hole through the laminations and into the back of the riser. I insert a small piece of 1/4" dowel rod in the form. As I then lay each lamination over the dowel as I am building the bow. It holds it in place nicely. You want to make sure the hole is clean an dry before putting the dowel in. If not, you can glue your bow to the form. It just makes it a little tougher separating the bow from the form. When you take your bow off, just saw and/or sand the dowel flush. After that, I just put an accent piece over the dowel so, it can't be seen.
I did something similar to this in my most recent recurve build. Due to the way the recurve sits in the form, the hole is drilled in belly side of the riser. Here is a link to the page.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=001870
Once again, Great Bow!
John
That bow just looks GRRRRREAT !
I always put a clamp over the riser as soon as I glue it to the bow. If you don't tighten the clamp to much you can slide around all the parts until they are exactly where you want them. Then you can carefully tighten the clamp and you don't have to worry about something moving around.
----------
Andy
Thanks John and Andy, Great tips. The next one should be considerably easier. I sent out an email yesterday to begin the process of naming the bow. Suggestions so far are sexcaliber (due to my love and obsession with the bow) and gangbanger (after trad gang) Any other suggestions?
Lots of sanding. here are a few quick pics.
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/sundayshaping1.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/sundayshaping2.jpg)
Question, after I finish all of this sanding its time to think about finishing the bow. I have read a little about using tung oil or deft to finish, but I would like to pick a finish that will look best on the figured shedua riser. My plan is to do a couple of samples on the left over shedua. Any suggestions?
That's coming along Josh.
To me, sanding is the tedious part of bow building and the part where I have the hardest time not getting in a rush. When you think your done sanding, quit working and come back to sand more.
I really don't have any advice on finishes. I've just gone the simple route with about 6 coats of Minwax polyurathane. I don't have a good area where I can spray anything without it polluting the whole house - don't want the kids breathing any fumes.
My father-in-law fabbed up a spray booth for painting cars in his garage. He just used some tarps and PVC. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do the same outside if needed. Open at the top, even using cheap, thin plastic from the hardware store (i.e. vapor barrier stuff). Enough to keep the wind off and debris down.
I really like the looks of the hand rubbed stuff better than the sprayed anyway.
BTW, the bow looks awesome Josh!
Finished!!! Thanks to everyone's help. The bow, (aka Kallista) shoots great and that is all that really matters. I'm very happy with the way it turned out. It pulls a little heavier than I was planning but I like it, It actually doesn't feel like the 69#'s at 28"'s that it weighed in at. Anyway, thanks again to everyone on the site, I could not have done it without the tradgang.
Josh
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/insideleft.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/insideright.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/outside.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/outsidetip.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/joshuademetriuslee/bowandarrow.jpg)
Great job!
Good job josh. Crafting your first bow gives you a real sense of satisfaction doesn't it.
Job well done nice wood combinations.