I was wondering if anyone could give me some insight on building a kids board bow for my nephews who are four and seven years old?Dimensions would be great!
Any help would be appreciated greatly.
Dean Torges\\' "Beginnings - Part 1" (http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SELFBOWS/beginnings.CFM)
Another option
Dean Torges\\' "Building Rattan Kids\\' Bows" (http://bowyersedge.com/kidsbows.html)
I can ship you a piece of rattan that will make 2 bows.
Thank You John for this info.It will help greatly.This is my first time posting a question on this sight and I can not believe how fast the response was.I am new to traditional archery and I am very interested in making my own bows so this probably will not be my last question and I can see the people on this sight are more than willing to help.
Thank You again.
Here are a couple pics of bows I made for grandkids and kids of friends.
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/DSCN6486.JPG)
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/DSCN6487.JPG)
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/withstaincropped_2.jpg)
These are made with 1/4" X 2" X 48" oak slats that you can pick up at home depot or Lowes. The risers are made of the same size poplar wood and are shaped by sawing out the sight window and shaping with a drum sander and files. Could use oak for the handles too but the poplar is much easier to work with.
The limbs are cut to a pyramid shape which precludes the need to tiller. I have tried many variations on backing and found that paper grocery bags work as well as anything and of course are inexpensive.
Titebond III works fine for all the glue up, handles and backing.
The kids have been shooting these for a few months now with no problems. Arrows are light weight 1/4 inch shafts and they fly nicely. These are being shot by kids aged 3 to 6 and none of them over draw them. I drew all of them to 25" repeatedly with no failures or funny "sounds"
Strings are not readily available so that's another fun project. I made a flemish twist for the first bow and endless strings for the other three. The endless are simpler to make. Used six strands of B-50.
Good luck and keep the kids shooting!
Monterey,
Can you give some more, like a how to/more dimensions/a drawing on those bows? They are good lookin' and I've got 6 grandkids that would pay attention for one of those. Well really only 5, one's only a month and a half old but he'll get there.
Thanks, TBKII
Those bows look great!I would like some deminsions also.I am having an archery class for youth and adults for our church this spring.I am trying to get some of the folks and youth involved in the outdoors/shooting sports.
Thanks, Joe
Mont, do you leave the limbs at the original thickness of the slat or do you have to tiller them at all?
Not monterey, but I make mine exactly the same way.
There is no thickness tillering. the pyramid design takes care of the tillering.
I usually put on some overlays on the end just to make them bullet proof.
Basicly measure off 4 to 6 inches in the middle for the glue on handle and fades. Then taper from full width down to about 1/2 inch wide tips. That will leave some room to further reduce the tips to help with tillering.
Warning not every 1/4 by 2 inch board from Lowes will work the grain should be very straight from end to end on the face.
Been using these for about 4 years for grand kids and our United Bowhunters of Missouri "deaf Camp" has used them a lot.
Ron
Awesome. Thank you, Ron. Do you have any pictures?
QuoteOriginally posted by macbow:
Not monterey, but I make mine exactly the same way.
There is no thickness tillering. the pyramid design takes care of the tillering.
I usually put on some overlays on the end just to make them bullet proof.
Basicly measure off 4 to 6 inches in the middle for the glue on handle and fades. Then taper from full width down to about 1/2 inch wide tips. That will leave some room to further reduce the tips to help with tillering.
Warning not every 1/4 by 2 inch board from Lowes will work the grain should be very straight from end to end on the face.
Been using these for about 4 years for grand kids and our United Bowhunters of Missouri "deaf Camp" has used them a lot.
Ron
Thanks for the info. I picked up a piece yesterday of 1/2 X 1 1/2 X 8 and ran it down to 3/8 and trimmed it to 48", went thur a bunch before I found deacent grain.
I marked of 6" in the center for the handle and ran the taper out to 3/4 at the tip. then glued on a 6" riser/fades. Wonder once they dry if I should change the taper to 1/2" or just work them out and see what I've got? They seem to bend nicly now.
Are you talking about overlay at the knocks?
TBKII
I make them an inch wide to just past mid limb narrowing to 3/8 in at the nocks. I make them as tall as the kid. Handle is around 3/4 in thick and 4 in long. Nothing fancy. Jawge
Sorry no pictures right now. Heading out for vacation in the morning or would work on some.
They mostly look just like the pictures above.
Yes I was referring to overlays on the tips. Kids like to have the bows in contact with the earth a lot.
Since some of my grand kids are getting older I started experimenting with 3/8 inch thick boards. (re-sawed 3/4") I make them about 52 to 54 inch.
Like George said a good length is the height of the child.
I would probably go closer to the 1/2 or even 3/8"at the tips.
The 1/4 inch bows work real well from 3 to 7 or 8 year old's depending on height.
Ron
Thanks, I take the advice make them up and make adjustments as needed.
TBKII
What is the best way to protect a backing from the elements? What happens if a bow backed with paper and TBIII gets wet?
I've backed quite a few bows with paper. I make sure it's well saturated with TBII for one, which is "waterproof." Then, I apply a wax finish that really protects the bow well from the elements.
Have not passed thru for a few days and saw the questions and will to answer and show a few more pics.
This is the material I use:
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/IMG_0788.JPG)
This is a 1/4" by 2" by 12" piece of poplar as sold by both Home Depot and Lowes. This is precut and finished wood that you will find low to the floor in bins along with other similar pieces and sizes.
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/IMG_0787.JPG)
This is a piece of oak 1/4" by 2" by 48" and is also sold in those same bins. You do not have to buy oak and cut these. They are pre-cut.
Below are some pics of the handles (about 7" long), the pin nocks, and the "pyramid" profile sawn into the limb.
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/IMG_0783.JPG)
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/IMG_0780.JPG)
I select the oak for the limbs to be flat sawn and as straight grained as possible. A perfect piece of wood would need no backing, but I select for "ok" wood and back them. Just my way of doing it.
The handles are three layers of the poplar lammed with TBIII. I shape the fades before glueing to the bow so as not to harm the limb with the drill press mounted drum sander. They would glue onto the limb easier if you will trust yourself as I do not! In order to get the thin part of the handle tightly glued to the limb, I bridge it with a small block of pine about two inches long and clamp the piece of pine in place with one end on the limb and the other about 1/2 up the fade (sorry, no pic for that). The handles are centered on the limb.
When the handles are set, I snap a line on the back of the bow to exactly place center and then mark one point on each side of the center at the tips. The width between those two points will be the width of your limb tips. Eg., 3/16" on each side of the center line at the tip will make a 3/8" wide limb tip. Next draw straight lines on the limbs from the tip width marks to the outside edge of the limb wood. I place the wide point of the limb about 1/4" to 3/8" further out than the fade. Probably not necessary but I think it may put less pressure on the glue joint between the handle and limb.
Next you cut the limbs out cutting just to the outside of your line. Once they are all cut you can bring them down to the line with a belt sander, the drum sander (keep it moving or you will end up with scallops) or a small hand plane. I use the small hand plane and find it to be the easier way to get to the line without errors. Once they are shaped, you can radiusl the corners a bit with sandpaper.
Next I glue the paper bag backing on with TB III, wrapping it a bit around the radius and let it dry thoroughly. Once it's dry, file in your string nocks at an equal distance from the center of the bow. Then put a string on it and measure or eyeball for the stiffest limb and make that one the bottom limb. Once you know top from bottom, you can put the shape into the handle with a drum sander. The poplar shapes quickly. Once the shape is in you can cut the sight window and arrow shelf and then clean it up and radius the shelf and the handle to match the deep point of the grip.
I used a MinWax finish/stain combo for the bow above. It came out very dark! :eek: They really don't need any stain I guess. My next time around will be lighter. Next I put on two coats of Varathane clear polyurethane finish with each allowed to dry for 24 hours.
The white handle material is just heavy pure cotton string. I took a long chunk of it and soaked it good in water and then wound it on as you see it. All the while wrapping as tight as possible. Once it was dry, I saturated it with the polyurethane with two coats with 24 hours between coats.
These have not been out in the rain so I'm not sure about durability when wet. Given enough time one of the kids will leave one out in the rain for sure!! :rolleyes:
For the older kids with longer draw lengths (I have drawn these to 25" without problems) these would make good small game bows with proper miniature broadheads. Probably you would need to make those yourself.
For many years I have made only flemish splice strings but lately built an endless loop jig per (loosely :eek: ) Rob Distefano's tutorial with video. The endless loop strings are easy to make and easy to hit correct length too. I don't have the link handy for the tutorial but it should be easy to find.
Not sure if I over explained or under explained this, but if something is not clear please let me know. There are probably many easier and better ways of making these so if you have any good ideas, please post them!!
Edit: Had to move two of the pics into the next post in order to get it to "stick"
Also, the tillering is all accomplished by the "pyramid shape. The sides of the limbs are straight from the fades to the limb tips.
I had to move a couple pics into this next post. The board would not accept the post with all the pics in one. Here are two more of the pics.
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/IMG_0782.JPG)
(http://mikealee.home.mindspring.com/images/Archery/IMG_0785.JPG)
Thanks Monterey, nice write up.
TBKII
PS: What is the purpose of the paper backing?TBKII
Yur welcome
Monterey,
Nice looking kids bows I will have to try that out for my kids thanks again for the insight.
QuoteOriginally posted by monterey:
Arrows are light weight 1/4 inch shafts and they fly nicely.
Monterey, are you using 1/4 inch dowels for arrows, or actual shaft material? Thanks.
What is the purpose of the paper backing?
TBKII
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the paper backing is to keep the back of the bow from splintering.
Like you said it's for some insurance in case there are some run outs in the grain.
I haven't used the paper bags yet but plan to. I've used flax fibre, not woth the effort, also used camo cloth looks good.
For a super backing on the tougher bows for slightly older kids I've used fibre glass cloth from NAPA and TB111. Haven't had one of those break yet.
Ron
Like monterey said I like to leave them full width past the fades.
On the slightly heavier bows, 3/8"' I sometimes put a 1/8 layer over the back slightly longer than the fades sorta like a power lam.
Ron
On shaft size, I must correct myself, they are 5/16th shafts. Memory is slipping. I get them from a local shop along with some 3" feathers and 5/16th nocks. They are actually pretty good quality arrows which I think is important to get kids started right.
The backing is indeed to protect the back of the bow from splintering, etc. It's too fast, cheap and easy to do not to do it IMO.
I have tried a few other backings, inlcuding body repair fiberglass mat, cotton duck and rawhide. They all work great but when it comes to expense, ease of application and longevity, the paper bag wins for me. Appeals to my chea... er, frugal side.
QuoteOriginally posted by 4est trekker:
I've backed quite a few bows with paper. I make sure it's well saturated with TBII for one, which is "waterproof." Then, I apply a wax finish that really protects the bow well from the elements.
4est, what type of wax finish do you use?
Very nice kid bows, Monterey. I think I'll try to make a few of those for the kids in my PE classes.
I'm in the process of making one of these for my daughter. I'll post some pics as soon as I'm done. Still have to cut the nocks, shape the riser, sand, back with paper, and build a string. This is my first bow ever and it has been a lot of fun so far.
Tim
If I'm not mistaken tb3 is waterproof? Also for added protection just finish the bow and lay a coat over your backing!
tb3 is supposed to be waterproof. Dunno for myself cause I never tested it. As a topcoat, it may not be too pretty. It does not dry clear.
I only put the glue on the bow back and the glue up side of the backing material. Final coat on mine has been a clear polyurethane. And that only cause I had a can of it on the shelf. The string windings are saturated with it and seem to be holding up pretty good.
Glad to see people making bows for kids!!
How important is it to have perfect grain when you back with paper?
It's hard to find "perfect" grain. I look for as close as possible to flat sawn or 90 deg edge grain. It's not so much a backing issue as it is a bending issue. IOW, the more consistent the grain over the length, the less likely that the limbs will twist when drawn.
Hope I made that understandable.
Hey ya'll,
Do you know any tricks to getting the brown paper backing to lay smooth? I just laid some down on my daughter's bow and it wrinkled up all over the place. I think partly due to the limbs bending while I was putting it on. Thanks in advance.
Well, I lay mine flat on a table and try not to get to much glue on. Then I try to smooth it towards the tips and edges before it sets up too much getting excess glue and bubbles out.
Yeah, I think I put way to much glue on. Thanks, B.
You're welcome!
I got the brown paper rolls from Walmart. It was 6 or 7 dollars and I don't know if Ill ever run out.
I just made one for my 5yr. old nephew. I wanted to dress up the back, so I went on line and found some pictures of Rattlesnake skin and printed them out. I printed them in two sizes and glued them down with spray glue. They came out pretty good.
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/001-4-1.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/002-3.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/004-3.jpg)
The snake print looks pretty cool. I'd be careful with that area where you cut the arrow shelf. Might be a weak spot. I think you usually want keep the limb at it's full width once your down to your minimum thickness past the fades, towards the nocks. But, I'm a newbie, so I'll wait to here from others more experienced than me. Looks cool though!
yep usually the fade should go past the full thickness of the limb. it might try to pop the fade off there, it might not. usually i aim for fades equal to my handle length then make sure they extend into the first part of the limb taper. you dont need it to extend much, just enough to let it accept equally the stress of the bend. looks good though, that was a great idea prinitng the skin patterns. ive had paper wrinkle too and just sanded it down smooth and then put a good layer over it, just watch you dont get it too thick and overpower the belly wood.also when i glue paper backing i only glue like 5 inches at a time laying it down straight and without stretching it once its wet with glue.
Man, I love that snakeskin!! Really innovative way to do it too.
I start my limb tapers about 1/4" past the end of the handle fades. Might be better if it were more but no problems yet. Will probably go to a 1/2" on the next one.
sure beats paying 58$ a pair for skins dont it,lolnone of the prep involved or the descaling either.i havent tried it yet but a small paint roller might be handy for smoothing out paper backings.i know they work well to size the bow with tbIII in a hurry.
Just thought I would show how I did the skins on a second kids bow I made.
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/004-4.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/005-3.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/006-5.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/008-4.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/009-5.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/archer555/010-4.jpg)
After they are all down and trimmed I rubbed them down to make sure of a good bond. Then I put 4 coats of finish over them. Scott
I wondered if that wasn't how you did that! I'm going to try it. Thanks for telling us about that.
great method, very ingenius.just curious if you backed them with anything else before adding the faux skins.
im probably gonna try that on one too eventually. they look really good
Thanks guys yes I first backed the bow with brown paper Scott
if i can coax my next stave to bend without snapping im gonna use your idea, itll be a short draw red oak "D" board bow, bend through the handle. lol i keep looking back at the pics and cant believe i never thought of this way of getting the skin look. kudos man for the great idea. :thumbsup: :clapper: